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Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:35 PM

More gun laws won't stop the killings?

The gun nuts claim that we have plenty of gun laws, and killings take place in some of the places with the strictest guns laws.

There's two kinds of laws, and two other kinds of laws.

The first two depends on what they prevent. Laws that prevent you from carrying a gun into a school, say, aren't going to stop someone intent on doing so. Agreed - although I believe it minimizes the incidental number of guns in the environment.

However, there are also laws regarding gun procurement, possession, and registration. Limitations on the type of weapon, capacity of clips, etc. are a lot harder to circumvent, despite your evil intent. The same reason I can't just go out and by plutonium if I want to.

The second two relate to jurisdiction. A state law banning sale of a certain type of weapon or ammunition isn't going to do much if someone intent on circumventing it can just drive to the next state over. Therefore it has to be implemented at a national level.

And lest you cry "State's rights" let me remind you that when it serves the national interest, the Federal Government can make things happen. Where drinking is concerned (BAC levels for DUI and drinking age), States make most of the laws, but the government was able to effectively impose limits by threatening to withhold highway funding, among other things. Economic pressure caused the states to fall in line.

When no one can buy an automatic weapon or high-capacity clip ANYWHERE in the country, THEN the gun laws will definitely have an effect.

And I think people are now just about ready to make that happen.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply More gun laws won't stop the killings? (Original post)
Tab Jan 2013 OP
Skittles Jan 2013 #1
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #2
samsingh Jan 2013 #3
gollygee Jan 2013 #4
Recursion Jan 2013 #5
graham4anything Jan 2013 #6
regjoe Jan 2013 #7
graham4anything Jan 2013 #9
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #10
graham4anything Jan 2013 #17
regjoe Jan 2013 #20
hack89 Jan 2013 #8
DanTex Jan 2013 #11
hack89 Jan 2013 #12
DanTex Jan 2013 #13
hack89 Jan 2013 #15
DanTex Jan 2013 #14
SocialistTwo Jan 2013 #16
OKNancy Jan 2013 #19
Tab Jan 2013 #21
jwirr Jan 2013 #18

Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:38 PM

1. it's time to stop listening to gun nuts

we've been hearing their paranoid delusions for decades and have the resulting carnage to prove it.....not to mention a decrease in our life expectancy.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:40 PM

2. Half of all masacres in US happened after lifting Assault weapons Ban in 2005...a

...at least that's what Clinton says

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:40 PM

3. it's all about votes. there are more people who want realistic gun laws

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:40 PM

4. I think what we're supposed to believe

is that fewer gun laws and more guns are what will stop it.

But people thankfully aren't buying that anymore.

I think I might start a personal policy where anyone who cries "state rights" will get on my ignore list.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:40 PM

5. Take the 1934 NFA

I think it's telling.

It banned (for all practical purposes) machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

Machine guns have, since then, been essentially unused in crimes in the US.

Sawed-off shotguns have, since then, remained very popular among criminals.

Or take the drug war. Quaaludes are hard to find. Cocaine is not.

Some things can be effectively banned and some can't. Let's figure out which of those anything we won't to ban is.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:42 PM

6. We need to ban all private guns from the street. Let them keep it at home. Ban all in the street

 

it can be done
and still allow the dreaded nra soundbyte, collecting, hunting, shooting ranges to be open

the only thing stopping it is the loudmouths in the nra and elsewhere

and a reclassification from scotus cannot hurt.
they are not immune to knowing they have to do something too, and even this court has in the past done the correct thing, maybe they will relisten and reexplain what constitutes the 2nd

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:46 PM

7. You see a lot of guns in your streets?

 

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Response to regjoe (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:03 PM

9. the school in CT is less than 50 miles from here, so yet I do and I see dead people

 

every day dying from a gun and a bullet

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:10 PM

10. Really? You personally see these things?

Uh-huh...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:43 PM

17. see em on this very board, one article after another with another dead person from a gun

 

I don't think I ever saw a gun cure cancer though
Nor have I seen a gun perform on Broadway

guns and the gunslinger are history. Might take a few years, but in 100 years from now, people shall look back at 2012 and see that history was made

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:03 PM

20. WOW! CT is a very dangerous place

 

sounds like you all need to fix things. No wonder you are so frightened of guns.

I'm in Missouri, guns pretty much everywhere. Still see gun racks in trucks. Have never seen anyone die from a bullet though, especially on a daily basis.
Perhaps you all need to upgrade to our gun laws?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:54 PM

8. A flaw in your argument concerning the federal government pressuring the states

No elected official was going to stand up and defend drunken driving - there was broad national consensus that it was a problem that needed to be fixed. Additionally, politicians knew they would not pay a political price (ie get voted out of office) by going along.

Not so with guns. Not only is there no national consensus but Congressmen from pro-gun states know that it would be political suicide to support national gun control. You really think Boehner and the House will vote to put economic pressure on the states? Really?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:10 PM

11. It might be politically difficult to get sensible gun laws through the GOP-controlled house, sure.

After all, the GOP opposes pretty much every progressive policy out there, and a lot of Republicans are more afraid of primaries than Democrats.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't push as hard as we can. The argument you are making could be made against any progressive cause. Do you also think we should give up on Medicare and Social Security?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:15 PM

12. Sure we can keep trying

I just think the notion that politicians will commit political suicide to support their opponents agenda is a little unrealistic. That's all.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:24 PM

13. And we should keep trying, is the point. Hopefully, the Newtown shootings will change some minds.

But if not, we still shouldn't give up. Polls show strong support for most of the gun laws under consideration, including universal background checks, etc. The GOP is not with the majority of Americans on this issue.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:28 PM

15. Universal background checks is easy and relatively non-controversial.

some of the other ideas floating around not so much. There is a fine line to be drawn - overplaying your hand and walking away with nothing is definitely a possible outcome.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:27 PM

14. There are no real states rights issues. That's basically just an NRA talking point.

Machine guns are currently regulated at the national level far more strictly than anything that has been proposed regarding semi-automatics or handguns or anything else. Yes, if necessary the Federal Government can use indirect pressure to require, for example, universal background checks, but I'm not sure if that would even be necessary.

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:42 PM

16. We must look at the real reasons for gun violence.

We must look at ALL the reasons for the gun violence that has only recently been occurring in the USA. Guns have ALWAYS been a part of our country's heritage. What HAS NOT been around until the last 20 years- when mass shootings started- are the violent movies,TV programs and video games. Although I can not give accurate figures, I am relatively sure that the majority of the mass killings (with the exception of the mental case who bombed a school in 1927) were committed by individuals who admitted to being a big fan of violent video games, TV programs and movies. Yet, no one even mentions them. The cause and affect of these stimuli are far more dangerous than guns.

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Response to SocialistTwo (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:01 PM

19. Japanese are nuts about video games, etc

Canadians too.. in fact all over the world they watch the same things we do. Try something else.

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Response to SocialistTwo (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:07 PM

21. Maybe, but without access to large clips and semi's/autos...


how are you going to act on your movie-induced fantasies?

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Response to Tab (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:49 PM

18. My grandson was talking to me about the issue and said many of what we are talking about are not

enforcible.

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