BAM! (Hitler argument against gun control FLATTENED on FB)

[Flying Squirrel]

I start by posting this link: http://propagandaprofessor.net/2011/09/26/the-myth-of-hitlers-gun-ban/

(Helpful tip: If you want to advertise DU on facebook, link to a lolcat thread or something. If you want to have a battle with someone, link to the original article - not the DU thread, so they have to actually argue with you instead of just labeling you a pinko commie liberal.)

As expected, it drew instant fire.

Attacker 1: First paragraph... "Whenever a politician, or anyone else, starts talking about regulating guns, it’s a safe bet that someone will bring up how Hitler supposedly outlawed guns in Germany, which supposedly enabled him to do all the mischief he did. If this fool thinks he can sell killing millions of people as "mischief" he's sadly mistaken. What a tool.

Attacker 2: I know your way smarter than this? Have you ever heard of Israel? Do you have any Jews in your family through what ever reason? Why is Israel armed to the teeth? Propaganda no shit.....Do you trust your politicians? Not just the ones you voted for but ALL OF THE FUCKING LIERS?....Anyone can make a Webpage and say bullshit.....

My response (a):

See, now {Attacker 1} you're taking the third usage of the word "mischief", which is used more commonly to describe children's behavior not meant to cause serious harm - but in fact, here's the Merriam-Webster definition:
1: a specific injury or damage attributed to a particular agent
2: a cause or source of harm, evil, or irritation; especially : a person who causes mischief
3a : action that annoys or irritates

My response (b):

Luv ya {Attacker 2}. Why do you always bring intelligence into this? It has nothing to do with anything. I don't think you're dumb because you believe what you believe. I think many people have been very cleverly manipulated by people who know how to do such things. How else can one explain 50% of the population voting for George W. Bush (twice?) lol and Israel is armed to the teeth because we created the country out of Arab land and they are now surrounded by Arab countries who want Israel gone. What's that got to do with gun control in America?

(Yes, I oversimplified that one and someone later jumped on my case about it but I didn't want to get sidetracked and felt Attacker 2 was just carrying the Germany meme to an extreme, probably didn't have a clue why Israel was really armed to the teeth.)

My response (c):

Yes, any nut (like, say, Alex Jones) can have a website. Here, why don't you read the true story of gun politics in Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany#History_of_firearms_restrictions_in_Germany
Restrictions imposed by the treaty of Versailles
In 1919 and 1920, to stabilize the country and in part to comply with the Treaty of Versailles, the German Weimar government passed very strict gun ownership restrictions. Article 169 of the Treaty of Versailles stated, "Within two months from the coming into force of the present Treaty, German arms, munitions, and war material, including anti-aircraft material, existing in Germany in excess of the quantities allowed, must be surrendered to the Governments of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to be destroyed or rendered useless."[1]
In 1919, the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that "all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately."[2] Under the regulations, anyone found in possession of a firearm or ammunition was subject to five years' imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 marks.
On August 7, 1920, the German government enacted a second gun-regulation law called the Law on the Disarmament of the People. It put into effect the provisions of the Versailles Treaty in regard to the limit on military-type weapons.
In 1928, the German government enacted the Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm licensing scheme. Under this scheme, Germans could possess firearms, but they were required to have separate permits to do the following: own or sell firearms, carry firearms (including handguns), manufacture firearms, and professionally deal in firearms and ammunition. This law explicitly revoked the 1919 Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which had banned all firearms possession.
Stephen Halbrook writes about the German gun restriction laws in the 1919-1928 period, "Within a decade, Germany had gone from a brutal firearms seizure policy which, in times of unrest, entailed selective yet immediate execution for mere possession of a firearm, to a modern, comprehensive gun control law."[3]
[edit] The 1938 German Weapons Act
The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:
• Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]
• The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
• The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
• The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]
• Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition.[6]
Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.
On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.[7]

(Now here it comes....)

My response (d):

So, in reality gun ownership restrictions were LOOSENED in Germany in 1938 - Except for Jews. The handwriting was on the wall. Now, is anyone in this country specifically targeting, say, angry white men and saying only they cannot own guns? Lolololol

BAM!

(No response from either attacker as yet, and I don't expect one.)

[JaneyVee]

1. Good stuff. At first it seemed like you were going to prove their point UNTIL

you brought up that no specific legislation bans guns entirely and/or for any specific race/religion/creed. Tell them they can complain when Obama signs legislation banning ALL guns for only angry white men. Until then its just paranoia & delusion.

[Flying Squirrel]

2. Spoke too soon.

Attacker 2:Why do you always bring intelligence into this? Why do you think? Yes we are all Targets, warrant less wire taps, TSA, Free speech zones, I could go on for an hour. Again i use the word Creepage,The mere fat that you just used the Term "EXCEPT FOR JEWS" as if the EXTERMINATION of 6 Million unarmed people is a side note....WTF Is wrong with you? Your panties are twisted up over 20 kids yet you shed no tears for the Jewish kids? 20 plus million unarmed Russians killed how many were kids? This isn't an issue where we can say hey that didn't work, can i have my gun back, once there gone there gone. Israel was created out of a desire of the Jewish people to have a home of there own, free of persecution. A land where they could be protected and free to protect themselves so that another Holocaust would never take place again. they would never surrender there guns. I have read it all my friend, more than you could imagine, why dont you find a way to dispute the Fact that biggest mass murders in the history of this know world is Government. And prier to things going crazy in those country's people like you thought it could never happen. I trust none and shame on anyone who does, for they are fools. The future is never what we hope it will be, sadly bad things happen. all the more reason I want my Gun. I have children to protect, in the event of god only knows what. As for Alex Jones He is very Smart , he just acts like an Idiot.

*******sigh********

My final response, and then I have to let my brain recover:

Dude. You totally misconstrued my point. It was not a side note, the point was that in Hitler's Germany the gun laws were specifically written to disempower a specific segment of the population - which is not what is being proposed in this country. I understand why Israel was created, still don't know why that is being injected into the present argument about gun control in our country. The Israelis will never be safe where they now live regardless of the number of weapons they have. It was a failed attempt at a solution to their problem. The average person in this country is not interested in taking away your Gun. They just want the assault weapons out of the hands of non-soldiers, and if you think having assault weapons are really gonna help you in case of Government takeover, you weren't paying attention to the smart bombs destroying houses in Iraq. Why would they send soldiers after you when they can just flatten your house? Fact of the matter is, we need to prevent it by peaceful means - not by stockpiling assault rifles. You cannot simultaneously prepare for and prevent war. That goes for civil war as well as any other kind. Meanwhile, our kids are getting killed by these assault weapons that are useless against the Government.

[jmowreader]

3. I just love it when a RWNJ mentions Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics#Israel

Israel has probably the most severe gun control law in the world short of just banning the damn things.

Last week we got a letter that said (paraphrasing here) no tyrannical despot was ever successful at subjugating the population without banning guns. This of course neglects a few uncomfortable-for-RWNJs historical facts: Hitler expanded gun rights for the "good German" population, Saddam's Iraq was packed with guns to the point where it made America look like a gun-free zone, and neither Hitler nor Saddam were known for being kind and gentle. If the goon squads are gonna get ya, they're gonna get ya whether you have a gun or not.