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Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:32 PM

I heard a different speech than many here.

But I guess that is the art of State of the Union addresses.

62 replies, 8471 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply I heard a different speech than many here. (Original post)
mmonk Jan 2012 OP
Matariki Jan 2012 #1
SunsetDreams Jan 2012 #24
Bicoastal Jan 2012 #2
mmonk Jan 2012 #9
valerief Jan 2012 #3
LineLineReply .
mmonk Jan 2012 #6
slay Jan 2012 #4
onenote Jan 2012 #7
slay Jan 2012 #10
FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #15
slay Jan 2012 #20
Matariki Jan 2012 #13
slay Jan 2012 #14
uppityperson Jan 2012 #18
Bohunk68 Jan 2012 #47
uppityperson Jan 2012 #49
tpsbmam Jan 2012 #58
uppityperson Jan 2012 #59
tpsbmam Jan 2012 #60
uppityperson Jan 2012 #61
tpsbmam Jan 2012 #62
sad sally Jan 2012 #55
Electric Monk Jan 2012 #16
slay Jan 2012 #25
SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #28
slay Jan 2012 #30
Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2012 #53
nanabugg Jan 2012 #29
Number23 Jan 2012 #38
Larry Ogg Jan 2012 #50
slay Jan 2012 #51
dionysus Jan 2012 #56
Inuca Jan 2012 #52
slay Jan 2012 #54
Drunken Irishman Jan 2012 #5
slay Jan 2012 #12
FrenchieCat Jan 2012 #8
mmonk Jan 2012 #11
FrenchieCat Jan 2012 #17
mmonk Jan 2012 #26
Logical Jan 2012 #19
FrenchieCat Jan 2012 #23
gateley Jan 2012 #41
bigtree Jan 2012 #21
mmonk Jan 2012 #32
bigtree Jan 2012 #36
mmonk Jan 2012 #37
DevonRex Jan 2012 #22
mmonk Jan 2012 #27
Stuckinthebush Jan 2012 #31
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2012 #33
mmonk Jan 2012 #34
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2012 #35
Obamacare Jan 2012 #39
mmonk Jan 2012 #40
gateley Jan 2012 #42
mmonk Jan 2012 #44
Raine Jan 2012 #43
lamp_shade Jan 2012 #45
mmonk Jan 2012 #46
kentuck Jan 2012 #48
dionysus Jan 2012 #57

Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:32 PM

1. Elaborate.

please.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:46 PM

24. Specifics would be nice

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:33 PM

2. Would you please elaborate?

This is called a "discussion" forum for a reason, ya know.

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:36 PM

9. I suppose the best way to put it is people hear the same thing and interpret differently.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:33 PM

3. Yeah, I had my audio running backwards, too. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:34 PM

6. .

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:33 PM

4. Seems I did too

 

lots of broad strokes - no details - and he really needs to just flat out call the republicans criminals serving their corporate masters. this dog and pony show sucks.

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:35 PM

7. he "needs" to do that?

I guess his problem is that he doesn't have advisors like you. Submit your resume.

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Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:38 PM

10. No, let's just all pretend the Republicans are solid leaders, with the best interests of the people

 

at heart. sheesh.

the emperor wears no clothes is about to become non-fiction again.

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Response to slay (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:40 PM

15. SO you think he should talk about unity while attacking unity? I'm sure that would play well

In the media.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:44 PM

20. How has his talk of "unity" helped over the last 3 years? The way Repubs just block everything?

 

what's the point of unity when the people he want's to unite with (Republicans) are all HORRIBLE corporate sock puppets?

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:39 PM

13. Funny, I heard lots of -'going to do this right now' in his speech.

Military buying alternative energy, directions to the Attorney General to set up a financial crime unit, a number of other 'action items' that go around a do-nothing congress.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:40 PM

14. I hope you are right

 

but in the past the differences between his speeches and his actions have been like night and day.

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Response to slay (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:43 PM

18. I noticed he didn't talk about making congress pass bills but will "send a bill to congress", over &

over and over. Which means he has figured out that he can send bills to congress but can't make them drink. Which also means not so much difference between his speeches and actions.

Which "differences between his speeches and his actions have been like night and day" do you mean?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 07:07 AM

47. "making" Congress pass bills?

So, now we criticize by stating that he stated the facts?

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:01 PM

49. What? Are you saying you can lead a horse to water AND can make it drink?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #49)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:29 PM

58. You can lead a horse to water and pressure it to drink.....

how do you think (e.g.) LBJ got so much of the "Great Society" initiatives passed? By being timid with the legislature? By backing off and letting legislator after legislator chip away at every program until it didn't even resemble the original initiative? Hell no -- he did it by pushing, and pushing hard. You think he had no push back from his own Party? Think again -- he had plenty. He leaned and leaned and leaned some more on legislators. Things were accomplished during his administration in part because, like him or not (and I HATED some of his foreign policies), he and his administration made them happen.


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Response to tpsbmam (Reply #58)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:52 PM

59. So Obama is spineless, simply backing off since he can not make repubs do what he wants. Gotcha.

thank you for clarifying.

I do not think LBJ had as much energy focused on simply making him fail, on blocking EVERYTHING simply because he thought it good, as Obama has. I guess you think differently and more highly of those who automatically block everything than I do.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #59)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 06:00 PM

60. I wasn't talking about Repubs.....read my post....I was talking about HIS Party, not the opposing

Party. And he had to work on HIS Party. I sure wish those who are vociferous Obama supporters would stop reading things into posts that weren't there.


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Response to tpsbmam (Reply #60)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 06:04 PM

61. My apologies. Are you saying Obama has not pushed the democrats enough? What?

Or are you comparing LBJ pushing his party with Obama pushing those who automatically block him?

Please clarify so i don't have to assume. Thank you.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 06:39 PM

62. I don't think Obama has pushed the Dems enough

He has repeatedly deferred to Harry Reid and others, and has repeatedly backed conservative Dems and ignored progressive Dems. He needs to engage his WHOLE Party, whether he agrees with them or not. The Progressive Caucus has asked to be heard on numerous occasions:

Afghanistan

The "debt limit deal" which the Progressive Caucus felt violated basic Democratic principles.

The Progressive Caucus budget.

Single payer representatives totally excluded from health insurance revision talks -- this was a Congressional Progressive Caucus issue.


He makes his decisions excluding the largest Congressional caucus and deferring to a Senate leader who most at DU, up until Obama's administration, agreed was weak and far more conservative than most used to consider acceptable.

That's also assuming that one takes him at his word. I personally think that he too frequently talks a good "Democratic" game but he's more in agreement with some of the shitty "compromises" than he acknowledges. He's started from right-wing/corporate/Wall Street mindsets too often and has been too reluctant to challenge those ways of thinking. His SOTU speech sounded good, but I heard him sound good before and govern far to the right of his "sound good" speeches, so my jury is out on that one -- his actions will speak WAY louder than his words.

But, if he TRULY believes his liberal rhetoric, he hasn't shown it in his willingness to push at least HIS PARTY to go along with his more liberal policy goals, at least those he claims in speeches. All those conservative Dems he's been backing owe him -- he has chips to draw from them. And I lived with someone (Dad) who worked in DC/politics for most of his adult life -- that IS how much of it works. Time for him to call in those chips if he REALLY means what he says and PUSH the Dems to rally AS A WHOLE behind what he SAYS are his policies.


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Response to Matariki (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:11 PM

55. All those things are nice, but when there's no money attached to executive orders

the agencies tasked to carry them out can't simply (legally) reprogram funds to do whatever the President asks them to do. And yes, it falls back on Congress - the branch of government that has control over government purses.

Seems it would make more sense to have turned to John Boehner and say, "I want to see you and your possee in my office tomorrow at 8 a.m. sharp - we have work to do." Instead of hitting the campaign trail, oh well, that's politics.

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:41 PM

16. All the kids have always known, the emperor wears no clothes, but you bow down to him anyway,

because it's better than being alone. - Arcade Fire

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:48 PM

25. I guess...

 

but #OCCUPY is sounding a LOT more appealing.

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Response to slay (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:52 PM

28. Sounding a lot more appealing because they are.

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

30. :)

 

indeed.

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Response to slay (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 04:53 PM

53. OCCUPY!

It's our future.

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

29. The fact is, this was one of the most specific State of the Union address in ages. nt.

 

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:42 PM

38. "he really needs to just flat out call the republicans criminals serving their corporate masters."

Genius, I tells ya. Genius.

And after he does that, maybe he can moonwalk off the stage while shooting a water pistol full of Welch's grape soda dead into Boehner's face. I mean, if we're going to conjure up colossally idiotic, meaningless fantasies, may as well go big, huh?

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Response to Number23 (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:40 PM

50. If all the criminal politicians in Washington went to jail...

The number of honest politicians that were actually left, could all fit in a phone booth; and they would all be liberals.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 04:48 PM

51. so you think they're not criminals serving their corporate masters?

 

or that the president should just ignore that? you put your loyalty to Obama above doing the right thing and telling people the truth. sad.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:17 PM

56. !!!!

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Response to slay (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 04:51 PM

52. Call them CRIMINALS?

Literally? Ridiculous.

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Response to Inuca (Reply #52)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:01 PM

54. You don't think they are?

 

how long are we just going to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the truth?

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:34 PM

5. Did you accidentally have it on Telemundo?

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:39 PM

12. No

 

n/t

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:36 PM

8. I'm sure Republicans would agree with you......

But guess most of them aren't here right now though.

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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:38 PM

11. They would hear something different from me as well as you.

We probably have 3 ways of looking at it.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:41 PM

17. Well, there is only one of two parties that can win the elections come 2012.....

So I heard enough to know which team I'm on......

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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:49 PM

26. I tend to not look at teams other than I am not on the red one.

I look at the country and policies and try to make assessments. I try to see what will happen though none of us know for sure.

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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:44 PM

19. So all agree frenchie or we are GOP supporters? This is a horrible thing to say!!!

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Response to Logical (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:46 PM

23. If the choice is between Obama and some GOP idiot in 2012 - I pick Obama!!

I think broadly most of us agree......

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Response to Logical (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:14 AM

41. Frenchie was speaking for herself. That's quite a jump you made! nt

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:44 PM

21. There's just one speech

There's a text. Read it through and nail down just what you're talking about here. It's not as if some folks here wouldn't be interested in hearing what your specific differences are. I don't really care where you're coming from. That's your business. I like an open exchange of ideas though.

text: http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/politics&id=8517683

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Response to bigtree (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:17 PM

32. It's fairly easy for me.

I like the rich and powerful paying more taxes. I like investigations into financial malfeasance. Any mention of infrastructure and manufacturing I like. I like the idea of looking into trade policies. I like investments in education and health.

I don't like what looks like more green lights for the oil and gas industries. I don't like pretending our problems have come from government spending and and over regulation, and pretending our corporations are paying too much in taxes when the real rate they are paying is around 14% and only about 6% of current overall burden.

Overall, I heard a centrist speech trying to sound liberal.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:35 PM

36. centrist trying to sound liberal

. . . is a little too much. He's certainly more of a centrist than a liberal, but you make him out to be insincere in the things he believes which may or may not gain favor from a liberal pov.

I do think he was playing to the right on offshore drilling, but I'd be surprised if that turns out to be anything more than lip service; just like the regulation thing. So what if he's playing to perceptions? There's little to be lost by consolidating the branches of government he's outlined, and benefits, I think, in bringing some of those departments out of the shadow of unrelated Cabinets.

We can rightly complain that liberal pov's and liberal initiatives need advancing and promoting, but the President is likely correct in balancing those ideals and initiatives with at least a rhetorical nod to the complaints from the right. Follow what he actually proposes in the form of legislation. That's more of a measure of his progressiveness or centrism, than what Congress ultimately agrees to.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:39 PM

37. Not him specifically. The speech.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:46 PM

22. I'm SO surprised.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:51 PM

27. I'm sure everyone is shocked.



Didn't want to disappoint.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:15 PM

31. Funny, that's what my GOP friends are saying on Facebook

They heard a different speech than me. Hmmmm....

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:19 PM

33. There are NEVER details given in SOTU speeches. Obama is not unique on this. Specifics come in the

forum of proposals. I'm going to wait to see those proposals. I'm confident that the president knows what he's talking about.

Now, Bernie Sanders is on Ed's show praising the president's speech while acknowledging that more work needs to be done.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:24 PM

34. That is by design and always holds in today's world.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:25 PM

35. Yep. Nothing out of the ordinary.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:06 AM

39. Good for you

 

would you like a cookie? Meanwhile, back in reality, Obama delivered a knock out punch to the rethugs. I think republican­s in the audience looked unhappy because they know that Noot is their candidate, Mittens is plummeting in every poll. Mittens should've released his taxes earlier.lol

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Response to Obamacare (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:13 AM

40. I live in reality. That's my problem.

And yes, Obama shouldn't have any problems with the Republican field.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:17 AM

42. I don't think any of us liked the shale reference or opening up oil and gas (wondering if

it means offshore or what), but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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Response to gateley (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:25 AM

44. Yep.

What's bad from my perspective on that is the new Republican legislatures where that pressure is already there.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 02:45 AM

43. That's the way I felt too

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:28 AM

45. Oh... it's you!

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #45)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:37 AM

46. Or maybe as Keith Olbermann put it, he "proposed everything" including opposite positions.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 07:22 AM

48. Yeah..

me too.

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Response to mmonk (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:18 PM

57. i'm sure you did

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