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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:25 PM

 

Bill Clinton: Gun control opposition ‘is nuts’

Bill Clinton: Gun control opposition ‘is nuts’

Former President Bill Clinton on Wednesday said those who opposed gun control measures like banning the sale of high-capacity magazines were crazy.

“I grew up in the hunting culture, but this is nuts,” he said during a speech at the Consumer Electronics Show. “Why does anybody need a 30 round clip for a gun? Why does anybody need one of those things that carries 100 bullets? The guy in Colorado had one of those.”

“Half of all mass killings in the United States have occurred since the assault weapons ban expired in 2005,” Clinton continued. “Half, in all of the history of the country. So I hope that former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) and other people who stepped up after the Newtown tragedy will have some impact on this.”

Raw Story (http://s.tt/1ydt0)

I fear for our Democratic leadership from the RBKA extremists.

41 replies, 4107 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bill Clinton: Gun control opposition ‘is nuts’ (Original post)
MightyMopar Jan 2013 OP
Agschmid Jan 2013 #1
JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #2
BainsBane Jan 2013 #3
Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #4
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #5
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #6
pasto76 Jan 2013 #7
jmg257 Jan 2013 #10
Tigress DEM Jan 2013 #11
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #12
Jennicut Jan 2013 #18
jmg257 Jan 2013 #8
madokie Jan 2013 #19
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #28
Tigress DEM Jan 2013 #9
ellisonz Jan 2013 #13
krispos42 Jan 2013 #14
ranger1 Jan 2013 #15
malaise Jan 2013 #16
Thinkingabout Jan 2013 #21
VPStoltz Jan 2013 #22
LAGC Jan 2013 #27
derby378 Jan 2013 #17
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #20
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #24
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #29
VPStoltz Jan 2013 #23
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #25
harmonicon Jan 2013 #32
derby378 Jan 2013 #36
In_The_Wind Jan 2013 #26
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #30
In_The_Wind Jan 2013 #31
Straw Man Jan 2013 #33
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #34
Straw Man Jan 2013 #35
spanone Jan 2013 #38
Straw Man Jan 2013 #39
spanone Jan 2013 #37
Straw Man Jan 2013 #40
iiibbb Jan 2013 #41

Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:28 PM

1. Interesting...

The debate really is everywhere!

“I grew up in the hunting culture, but this is nuts,” he said during a speech at the Consumer Electronics Show. “Why does anybody need a 30 round clip for a gun?

Maybe we can win this, maybe it won't go away after a few weeks. I certainly don't want it to!

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:32 PM

2. He's playing my song

Manage and control the ammunition.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:38 PM

3. tell 'em Bill

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

4. Bill Clinton did not choose to use the term of " nuts " lightly..imo.

I'm glad he said it, and hope it becomes a trend.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:21 PM

5. After the loss of Congress to the Republicans in 1994, Clinton wrote in his autobiography:

 

"Just before the House vote (on the crime bill), Speaker Tom Foley and majority leader Dick Gephardt had made a last-ditch appeal to me to remove the assault weapons ban from the bill. They argued that many Democrats who represented closely divided districts had already...defied the NRA once on the Brady bill vote. They said that if we made them walk the plank again on the assault weapons ban, the overall bill might not pass, and that if it did, many Democrats who voted for it would not survive the election in November. Jack Brooks, the House Judiciary Committee chairman from Texas, told me the same thing...Jack was convinced that if we didn't drop the ban, the NRA would beat a lot of Democrats by terrifying gun owners....Foley, Gephardt, and Brooks were right and I was wrong. The price...would be heavy casualties among its defenders." (Pages 611-612)

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/legislativenews/clinton8_1_04.html

One poll has indicated that approximately 40% of Democratic households own firearms. Another poll indicates that approximately 22% of Democrats own firearms.

Why, exactly, are anti-gunners crusading for a revival of the 1994 issue? Why are anti-gunners indifferent as to the effects of their vitriolic attacks are having upon firearm-owning Democrats and firearm-owning Independents?

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:25 PM

6. I guess he changed his mind after saw how the electorate is changing

 

The Big Dog always make fun of the Republicans inability to count.

BTW, are you going to vote for the Baggers if you don't get your way on gun laws and enforcement?

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:48 PM

7. because NOBODY IS COMING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS

thats why. nobody is going to have ANY gun or magazine, that they already own, confiscated. It will be illegal to produce and sell any in the future(ARs and magazines).

Gun control to a Dem, means making it harder for maniacs who want to throw a tantrum with an AR15 to get their hands on.

Gun control to a pub or nutjob means Stalin AND hitler will rise from the dead and zombie force their way into your home and steal your firearms. that fear is based in fantasy and is, therefore, delusional.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:07 PM

10. Because substantially reducing the number of guns is worth it, I'd say.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

11. Why, exactly, are anti-gunners crusading for a revival of the 1994 issue?

Look, I'm not anti-gun. I don't own one, but my Dad did and my Son does. Lots of people who have guns aren't going out killing anyone. Those people are ok by me.

I simply believe in responsible gun ownership and in managing this situation better so that if people are irresponsible or illegal gun owners we can punish them and take away their ability to kill other people just because they can put money down and pick up a weapon.

I also think it's bullshit that people need automatic weapons to hunt unless they are out hunting bears.

Automatic weapons are weapons of war and insurrection. We have states talking about leaving the Union and we have a lot of people off their meds because healthcare is not equally available to all shall we say.

Things have gotten out of hand and the right wing nuts are throwing gas on the fire.

I think some basic rules around the subject need to be addressed with a lot of common sense and without the fire and brimstone from either side.

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Response to Tigress DEM (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:37 PM

12. Many gun owners can agree with you: "I also think it's bullshit that people need automatic weapons

 

to hunt ..."

Automatic weapons have been strictly controlled since 1934 and virtually banned throughout the United States since that time.

If there is anyone advocating for using automatic weapons to hunt, I have not idea as to who that person might be. I've never heard anyone advocate for that.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:07 PM

18. Because the Dems lost for more reasons then gun control

The heathcare debacle, DADT, the budget and Clinton's own scandals did not help either. Guns are never mentioned in the Contract With America.

And being a coward politically is no excuse.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:55 PM

8. !What a maroon - he called a magazine a clip!

And this guy wants to be president?!?

</sarcasm>

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:18 PM

19. Around here when I was a kid they were called a clip

I'm the same age as Bill

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:00 AM

28. Not only that, he called an assault weapon

an assault weapon.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:04 PM

9. “1/2 of all mass killings in the US have occurred since the assault weapons ban expired in 2005"

From 1776 to 2005 is 229 years and we've had a violent history... but still.

In character, I think Clinton's assessment is astute and maybe he has access to better records than I do.



I'm not sure if the math is entirely correct, but a cursory glance shows the rate of mass murders DID jump from an average of about 4 per year between 1966-2005 to about 30 a year after 2005.


I haven't found information prior to 1900 but from there to 1966 it was about 13 a year averaged and that's including the Roaring 20's. ( IF Grant Duwe, the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History, can be relied upon and IF my math isn't suffering from multiple source conflicts.)


2005 to 2012 is 7 years -- 209 people killed en masse

October 2006 - a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.

April 2007 - student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.

August 2007 - Three Delaware State University students were shot and killed in “execution style” by a 28-year-old and two 15-year-old boys. A fourth student was shot and stabbed.

December 2007 - a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.

December 2007 - a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.

February 2008 - a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.

February 2008 - a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.

September 2008 - a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.

December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

March 2009 - a heavily armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, killing three colleagues and wounding three others.

January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tucson, Arizona, killing six people including a 9-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.

April 2 - A gunman kills seven people and wounds three in a shooting rampage at a Christian college in Oakland.

July 20 - A masked gunman kills 12 people and wounds 58 when he opens fire on moviegoers at a showing of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora, a suburb of Denver, Colorado.

Aug. 5 - A gunman kills six people during Sunday services at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, before he is shot dead by a police officer.

Aug. 24 - Two people are killed and eight wounded in a shooting outside the landmark Empire State Building in New York City at the height of the tourist season.

Sept. 27 - A disgruntled former employee kills five people and takes his own life in a shooting rampage at a Minneapolis sign company from which he had been fired.

Oct. 21 - Three people are killed in a Milwaukee area spa including the estranged wife of the suspected gunman, who then killed himself.

Dec. 14 - A shooter opens fire at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, killing several people including children. ( 26 - The victims are 12 girls, eight boys and six adult women. ) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/15/sandy-hook-shooting-victims-names_n_2307354.html




1966 to 2005 = 39 years -- 145 people killed (murders who shot selves additional)

August 1966 A gunman holed up in a clocktower at the University of Texas campus in Austin killed 15 people before being shot by police. Prior to yesterday, this was the worst campus shooting in US history.

February 1983 Three men shot dead 14 people in the Wah Mee club in Seattle's Chinatown.

July 1984 Some 21 people were killed when a 41-year-old opened fire at a McDonald's restaurant in San Diego. He was shot by police.

August 1986 A former postal worker entered a post office in Oklahoma, and shot 14 workers before killing himself.

October 1991 George Hennard drove his pickup to Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, then shot dead 23 people and himself.


April 1999 - two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.

July 1999 - a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.

September 1999 - a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.

October 2002 - a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.

August 2003 - in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.

November 2004 - in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.

March 2005 - a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.


http://www.newsmax.com/US/mass-shootings-us-colorado/2012/07/20/id/445971



PRIOR to 1966 there were times of mass murder as well... think the "20's and 30's - Capone et al

Take away 209 in 7 years and 145 in 39 years - leaving 846 people dead in 66 YEARS (of those 1200 murders) from mass shootings between 1900 and 1966.


Grant Duwe, who works for the Minnesota State Department of Corrections and is the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History, has looked at 1,202 mass murders between 1900 and 2009. Of those, 12%, or 142 incidents, were massacres in public

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:48 PM

13. "Nuts"

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:36 AM

14. Clinton is full of shit on this issue

There were 5 school shootings during his ban, Sept 13th 1994 to Sept 13th 2004.


There were 5 school shootings and one bombing before the ban, and there have been 6 since.



There were 12 workplace massacres before his ban, 5 during his ban, and 3 since.


The homicide rate dropped nearly 50% from 1991 to about 2004, by the way, and has been there since.






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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:51 PM

15. NO BILL CLINTON YOU ARE NUTS!!!!!

 

We are only expressing out 2nd Amendment right!!! YOU SOLD US OUT WITH NAFTA!!!!! SHUT UP!!!!!

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Response to ranger1 (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:03 PM

16. Enjoy your stay

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Response to ranger1 (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:21 PM

21. The Second amendment does not prevent regulation.

If you think you should be able to express your rights then you should know it is there can be regulations. If then where in the second amendment does it give right of gon owners or those possessing weapons to turn them on anyone especially 20 children in a class room. You want to be angry with anyone about regulation then look to those who have abused the privilege in incorrect use of weapons. The second amendment does not give the right to kill.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:48 PM

22. All this blah, blah about RIGHTS!

The First Amendment guarantees my right to say anything I want at any time - wrong.
I can scream fire in a theater, bomb on a plan, criticize my boss if I am employed by the state, flip one of many people the finger, threaten the president, and on an on.
Geez, I thought I had a RIGHT to say anything I wanted to.
My speech is regulated for a reason - AS SHOULD GUNS BE REGULATED.

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Response to VPStoltz (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:59 AM

27. The First Amendment doesn't say "shall not be infringed."

Good luck with that.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:06 PM

17. What I think is nuts: handing Congress to the Republicans in 1994

Even Clinton himself admits that the gun ban was responsible for this transition. And now he wants to repeat this strategy?

He may be a hunter, but he's no Second Amendment supporter.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:33 PM

20. Many of those 1994 voters are dead and more are dying every day

 

Different electorate with white rural voters defanged vs the new multiracial, multicultural America represented by Obama

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 12:45 AM

24. Well there are more guns than ever out there and more NRA members than ever.

 

I would have to estimate that quite a few New Voters have filled those roles - and then some.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:26 AM

29. But most importantly less gun owners and less and less young gun owners

 

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Response to derby378 (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:49 PM

23. He never said that. Where's your source?

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Response to VPStoltz (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:19 AM

25. Actually he did. The source is his autobiography, pages 611 - 630. See #5, above.

 

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Response to derby378 (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:10 AM

32. Yeah, geez. Putting principle before callous indifference to substance in order to attract votes?

What kind of a nut would do that? Doesn't he know that politicians shouldn't propose laws vote as they feel is right but rather do whatever will appeal to the lowest common denominator?

I like money.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:03 PM

36. It's called the Butterfly Effect

Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, public education - you tell me if the Republicans, especially the Teahadists, will give any of these a fair shake.

If you want to do the right thing, you do not endanger all of the above. And what happened in 1994 was a very real and catastrophic event to the Dems. We cannot afford that again. Never again.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:54 AM

26. I agree with Bill Clinton.



We don't need a 30 round clip for a gun.

We should ban assault weapons again.



Joan Alpern

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 08:47 AM

30. NRA got it's ass handed to them in 2012 election, did even worse than Karl Rove, Bloomberg did well

 

They have become one of Rachel Maddow's chief targets of ridicule if you watch MSNBC.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:06 AM

31. I do watch MSNBC when I'm not glued to my computer.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 06:33 AM

33. So nobody needs a "30 round clip."

So shall we cap it at 20? And could Federal law please pre-empt New York? Because in New York currently, we can only have 10. And if Andrew Cuomo gets his way, that will be reduced to 7.

Do we see a trend here? And I've been told that there is no slippery slope.

If you want to ban all semi-automatic firearms, just say so. Then we can have the real debate. This Death of a Thousand Cuts bullshit is tiresome.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #33)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:08 AM

34. IF THE ELECTORATE WAS SIMILAR TO 1994 THEN NEWT WOULD BE PRESIDENT!

 

Much of that electorate has died off and all the concern trolling in the world won't bring them back.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 02:14 PM

35. What does that have to do with anything?

Are you claiming that the current US electorate would support an all-out ban on all semi-automatic firearms? I think not. No, you'll have to hew to your deception/evasion course if that's your goal.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:07 PM

38. i think so.

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Response to spanone (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:23 PM

39. Interesting.

You think the US electorate would support a level of gun control that is stricter than any European country except the UK.

Let's just say I have my doubts.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:05 PM

37. c'mon bill, how are you going to shoot a school room full of kids if you gotta reload constantly?

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Response to spanone (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

40. A better question is ...

... how six-year-olds are supposed to tackle the shooter when he stops to reload.

I'd rather see an armed guard in the school, myself.

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