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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:12 PM

When they start with the Doublespeak - go Orwell on them

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Reply When they start with the Doublespeak - go Orwell on them (Original post)
ehrnst Jan 2013 OP
think Jan 2013 #1
Scootaloo Jan 2013 #2
Scuba Jan 2013 #3
ReRe Jan 2013 #12
Scuba Jan 2013 #14
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #6
Occulus Jan 2013 #17
RC Jan 2013 #18
Occulus Jan 2013 #23
lunatica Jan 2013 #26
KittyWampus Jan 2013 #34
ChazInAz Jan 2013 #35
Buck Turgidson Jan 2013 #4
BlueNoteSpecial Jan 2013 #5
garthranzz Jan 2013 #7
ehrnst Jan 2013 #25
99th_Monkey Jan 2013 #8
zeemike Jan 2013 #9
Canoe52 Jan 2013 #10
TygrBright Jan 2013 #11
tosh Jan 2013 #13
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #15
Scuba Jan 2013 #16
ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #19
datasuspect Jan 2013 #37
ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #38
Hulk Jan 2013 #20
Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #24
liberalmike27 Jan 2013 #27
Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #31
Politicub Jan 2013 #30
nradisic Jan 2013 #21
chollybocker Jan 2013 #22
Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2013 #28
Politicub Jan 2013 #29
krispos42 Jan 2013 #32
KittyWampus Jan 2013 #33
Towlie Jan 2013 #39
jillan Jan 2013 #36
Mosaic Jan 2013 #40
cali Jan 2013 #41

Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:21 PM

1. Double plus good

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:29 PM

2. Agreed

For some reason, progressives are extremely bad at this sort of thing. Maybe it's because so many of us have "propaganda = bad" hammered into our heads, but the ability to frame a debate aond control the information is something we generally seem ot lack.

Let's fix it, dammit

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:40 PM

3. I'm reading Drew Westen's "The Political Brain" which specifically addresses Dems poor framing...

... you might enjoy it. Best book on political thinking and framing of arguments I've read, by far.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:36 PM

12. Thank you for that book referral...

...I'm one of those nerds who will actually pick it up and read it!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:40 PM

14. My sister sent it to me. It explains past failures very well. Should be req'd reading ...

... for Dem candidates and their strategists.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:25 PM

6. Perhaps it's because liberals are logical, we think facts and the truth

should be able to speak for themselves. It is starting to become obvious that truth and facts need some help with their language skills.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:55 PM

17. There's a quote that illustrates this beautifully:

"A lie can travel 'round the world while the truth is putting on its pants."

We need to be less polite, and start publicly calling the lies what they are: lies, told by liars.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:08 PM

18. But..., but..., but...

 

When we do that, we get alerted on by the guilty.

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Response to RC (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:10 PM

23. When we do that here on DU, I've found it effective to add a preemptive note for the jury

Explaining things to a jury in advance of the alert you believe will result from your post is very effective, because it subtly tells them that you know what sort of game those kinds of alert abusers are playing. It works best when you include it at the beginning of your post, without making any further edits.

I'd begin the body of the post with a "Note to jury: blih-blah etc." kind of comment. It lets the alert abusers know you're on to their game, instructs the jury to refuse to play it, and neatly sidesteps your post being hidden because the alerter deliberately misrepresented your intent or meaning in his comments on the alert.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:56 AM

26. Sometimes I know I will be alerted on and choose to insult someone anyway

Sometimes I get away with it. But I only do it to those I think are trolls.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:02 PM

34. I used to point this out repeatedly on DU v.1 and would be trashed over and over.

Liberals/Lefties don't need propaganda was what I was told. Furthermore, all we need to do is present a logical statement and the public will be so impressed with our shining example of clear thinking they'll just HAVE to vote Democratic.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:13 PM

35. One obvious reason.

I agree completely. We liberals have a strange tendency to be honest, and don't like to play semantic games.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:58 PM

4. Reverend ---> Radical Cleric

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:17 PM

5. Elected legislators

Corporate puppets

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:27 PM

7. Link?

Website?

More?

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Response to garthranzz (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:53 AM

25. Got it from the facebook:

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:28 PM

8. Also under "Redistribution of wealth" there needs 2 be something like "Federal Disability Insurance"

or some way to acknowledge that if a citizen is disabled or for whatever reason is
unable to care for themselves in the normal work-a-day way, that there is some
humane Federally funded entity that provides basic needs to this population.

This appears to be totally missing from this chart, unless one assumes it to be
included in "Taxpayer's investment", which actually is true. i.e. providing for this
population is more cost-effective than paying police, prisons, courts, crisis lines,
etc. to criminalize the disabled (or alter-abled?) who are unable to "provide for
themselves".

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:28 PM

9. Freedom

(Just another word for nothing left to lose.)

Support the troops
fund the pentagon.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:31 PM

10. I cringed when

I heard Jon Steward use the phrase "entitlement reform" recently, even though he was knocking it. I've been wracking my brain trying to remember what we called it before the wingnuts rephrased it.

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Response to Canoe52 (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:34 PM

11. We called it "benefit cuts." n/t

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:37 PM

13. Perfect!

These are keepers. Thanks, ehrnst!!

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:41 PM

15. Excellent graphic & framing.

I'm stealing both.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:42 PM

16. Republicans are stubborn. Democrats are tenacious. We offer hypothesis. They offer conjecture.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:10 PM

19. The graphic and its contents are useless.

Because rightwingdumbfucks will never understand a word of it. They're too goddamned stupid.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:05 PM

37. you have to repeatedly hit them in the head with a baseball bat

 

while rubbing their faces in their own shit for them to learn anything.

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:21 PM

38. I've done that and it left them even stupider. And I didn't even know that was possible. eom

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:15 PM

20. This is what those bastards have been so effective with!

I didn't notice it so much until W was in office, but I'm sure it existed long before....the messaging. "Support the troops", "cut and run", "job creators", "class warfare", etc, etc. They use the words to where you can't debate with their definitions of nonsense. It's almost like they take your position and turn it on you.

I listen to the clown, vannity, from time to time; more for laughs and enjoyment to hear him squeal like a stuck pig over paying higher taxes; and it's amazing how he has his little book of phrases and words: "why do you hate the job creators", "how much is enough", "why do you resent the successful", and a whole boat load of other nonsense phrases that escape me right now. And he just bats every caller away with this nonsense barricade of BS he throws out on them. I don't resent the wealthy; I just believe they should pay their fair share of expense for this country that we all love so dearly. Why do you hate your country? Such BS!!

We need to fight back and pick our own phrases to show them just how ridiculous this all is.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:11 PM

24. They are taking instructions from Joseph Goebbels' playbook

Goebbels was an evil genius who knew how to sucker people into believing anything the Nazis wanted them to believe. His most famous concept was "Die grosse Lüge," (the Big Lie), which said that if you repeat something often enough and with enough conviction, people will believe it.

The Nazis had an advantage in that there were only three forms of mass media in Germany: radio, movies, and print journalism, and they could easily control all three. Wherever people looked, the message was exactly the same.

Republicans try to achieve the same reach by telling their audiences that all other forms of media are "biased." I see it on the Minneapolis Star-Tribune's website all the time. The AM radio zombies keep saying that the very, very corporate Star-Trib is "spreading socialist propaganda" every time it says something even mildly left of extreme right wing and refer to it as "The Red Star."

If your audience refuses to believe anything other media say or even to refer to other media, then you have achieved the same effect that the Nazis achieved: a total information environment for reinforcing your line.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:37 AM

27. I Would Add

That ours does one better--it offers both sides of a limited ideological spectrum. Both the right and the left are false constructs, offering up a similarly fake center. The left is right-of-center, the right is bunched up on a cliff almost ready to fall over, so compromise, as we've seen, ends up well into right-wing land.

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Response to liberalmike27 (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:31 AM

31. Can't disagree with you there

The corporate media have a large part of the country believing that Obama is as far left as it's possible to be, when he's actually somewhere in Nixon territory in his actual policies, maybe even farther right.

People who are too young to remember anyone before Reagan (or even before Clinton) don't have this long-term perspective.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:28 AM

30. The GOP is masterful with the big lie

Lying is about the only thing they're good at actually.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:26 PM

21. That's how you do it!

great post!

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:00 PM

22. "Right to Work" / No Worker Rights

I love the "Beware of Images" logo. It looks like a Magritte Swoosh.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:00 AM

28. Lakoff has been right for years. The Republicans have been doing the same thing much longer. nt

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:27 AM

29. Indeed language matters

Maybe if we start adopting some fairer terminology others will be positively influenced.

As an example, I've stricken illegal aliens from my vocabulary and always refer to folks in our country who are trying to make a life under the radar as undocumented immigrants.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:56 AM

32. George Lakeoff would be proud!

K&R!

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:59 AM

33. There is nothing wrong with the word "Entitlements".

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:42 PM

39. Nothing wrong with "liberal" either, but conservative propaganda has managed to tarnish those words.

We could also add "pro-life" = "anti-abortion", or even better, "anti-choice."

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:56 PM

36. I'm going to add corporate welfare to be used when discussing Corp tax write-offs; bailouts.

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:56 PM

40. Take back their empty headed praise from us Dems, liberals, and leftists

Don't ever refer to them as the 'grand old party', they love that. Let's control the language, agree with the OP!

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Response to ehrnst (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:59 PM

41. Amusingly, Orwell, one can say with a fair degree of certainty,

would have been horrified by this.

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