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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:05 PM

 

I know a convicted felon with an armory.

He was convicted of manslaughter for killing a homeless person while DUI.

He brags about his guns. When asked about them he explains that they are owned by his wife. He has bunches of money and lives in the South.

Another hole in the system.

54 replies, 2423 views

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Arrow 54 replies Author Time Post
Reply I know a convicted felon with an armory. (Original post)
Whovian Jan 2013 OP
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #1
Whovian Jan 2013 #2
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #3
Whovian Jan 2013 #4
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #7
Whovian Jan 2013 #10
derby378 Jan 2013 #19
Mimosa Jan 2013 #29
Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #8
Glassunion Jan 2013 #21
Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #23
Glassunion Jan 2013 #26
Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #39
Glassunion Jan 2013 #42
Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #45
Glassunion Jan 2013 #46
IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #37
Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #41
IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #43
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2013 #6
global1 Jan 2013 #28
Nine Jan 2013 #34
Andy823 Jan 2013 #35
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #40
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #5
R_Flagg_77 Jan 2013 #9
jody Jan 2013 #11
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #12
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #13
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #16
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #20
R_Flagg_77 Jan 2013 #22
Mimosa Jan 2013 #27
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #30
Mimosa Jan 2013 #25
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #31
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #52
jody Jan 2013 #14
Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #15
jody Jan 2013 #17
-..__... Jan 2013 #18
Mimosa Jan 2013 #24
doc03 Jan 2013 #32
doc03 Jan 2013 #33
slackmaster Jan 2013 #36
Nine Jan 2013 #38
IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #44
R_Flagg_77 Jan 2013 #47
IdaBriggs Jan 2013 #53
R_Flagg_77 Jan 2013 #54
NHDemProg Jan 2013 #48
crazyjoe Jan 2013 #49
crazyjoe Jan 2013 #50
madville Jan 2013 #51

Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:21 PM

1. Have you reported it to the local LEOs?

If he has access to them he is back to the big house, wife as well

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:23 PM

2. I have thought about it.

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:24 PM

3. Just do it

No legitimate gun owner wants that bad guys to have access to guns. Drop the dime

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:29 PM

4. I just got off the phone with the police.

 

And was told it was all okay. And wife can sign for guns for a felon.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:33 PM

7. No, that's not true.

It's in violation of federal law. I hope you got that persons name.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:38 PM

10. I wish I had.

 

I know the gun owner's name but the person answering the phone blew me away by his denial so much that I was somewhat speechless.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:58 PM

19. Sounds like a classic case of a "straw purchase"

Maybe you should try calling someone at the BATFE and get their take on the matter.

Spouses of felons can legally own firearms if they're not felons themselves or otherwise ineligible, but that doesn't mean that the felonious spouse gets any special right to carry, shoot, or even handle those guns. Some say this is a gray area, but I can't imagine why that is.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:52 PM

29. My credulity is strained.

Since in the past I had reported somebody.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:33 PM

8. I figured as much...

But that's a real issue to confront.

This is why we need a "straw man" purchase law at the federal level. I wouldn't want to put the wife in jail, because who knows, her husband may be an abusive psychopath and she's afraid to say no. But this shouldn't be allowed to go on, either.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:47 PM

21. There is a straw purchase law at the Federal Level

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:39 PM

23. As I understand it, it's tough to prosecute

The AG has to prove that there was prior intent to make a straw purchase. We need to make a first offense a misdemeanor (or whatever the equivalent is at the federal level) even if its intentional, and the second offense is a felony.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:47 PM

26. It's only tough to prosecute because the AGs

generally do not have the resources to go after a prosecution. The vast majority of straw purchase convictions are done by the states. Every state has their own form of straw puchase law.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

39. Combination of a lack of resources and a lack of desire

This isn't a priority in the red states, and the ATF is barely functioning at this point, having been budget-cut almost to extinction.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:11 PM

42. I have a few ideas, getting the ATF a director and some funding

Was one of the ideas among many.

The ATF's poor direction has led to their current predicament. They were enforcing the non issues and ignoring the effective tough ones. They were/are looking for numbers not results.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:30 PM

45. I don't know if this is 100% accurate

But I've read that there are 130,000 firearms dealers and about 2500 ATF field agents. And the ATF hasn't had a Director for something like six years.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #45)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:44 PM

46. You are pretty close I believe.

I live in a very gun friendly state. The ATF does very little here, however my state (commonwealth actually) is very adamant about going after those who abuse firearms.

IIRC PA is number 2 in convictions of straw purchasers, and felons attempting to buy firearms. We have our own background check system called PICS (PA instant check system) that uses the NICS database plus our own state data for protection orders and mental health disqualifications.

I have been checked through this system a few times, but I still fear that firearm ownership in this state is too easy. We do have a lightweight version of a law to prevent the so-called gun show loophole... No handgun or shot barrel rifle can be purchased in the state without a background check.

It is still too easy in PA in my opinion to buy a firearm. Some of our lawmaker's hearts are in the right place, but they reach too far and their bills are doomed to failure.

Oh if only I were king for a day... http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021990149

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:05 PM

37. And that type of person is EXACTLY who the rest of us want owning guns

Especially if they are a convicted felon.

Oh, wait-a-minute - NOT!

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:10 PM

41. Trust Me

This guy describes himself as a "law abiding citizen."

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:13 PM

43. Convicted felon who uses his wife as a straw man

Who considers himself a (presumably non-sarcastically) law abiding citizen.

And we wonder why we have a problem with guns in this country!

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:32 PM

6. G Gordon Liddy used to (still does?) brag that he doesn't own ...

... any guns but his wife has quite the arsenal.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:49 PM

28. Can You Tell Me What LEO is?......nt

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Response to global1 (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:59 PM

34. law enforcement officer (nt)

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Response to global1 (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:59 PM

35. Law Enforcement Officer. nt

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Response to global1 (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:10 PM

40. Law Enforcement Officer

Generic for cops, but goes from Barney Fife to the head of the FBI.

Depending on local one may have:
- State Police
- County Sheriff
- City Police
- Marshal
- State Patrol
- Rangers
- 5-0

Calling them LEOs covers it all

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:31 PM

5. If he has access to the guns it's illegal.

Some states permit a person cohabitating with a felon to own a gun if it's locked up in a safe, or a room in which they have no access to. That's the only time it's legal.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:37 PM

9. Depending on state laws...

 

He may well be within his legal rights to live in a household with firearms. I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt. The Gun Control Act of 1968 issued a Federal prohibition on the ownership of firearms by convicted felons; prior to this it was the domain of the state and/or local laws.

Some states will allow a felon to own a firearm after X amount of years, or after going through a legal process to restore the legal right to own a firearm, in some states felons are restricted to owning black powder firearms like muskets and muzzle loaders. That is only if he was convicted of a felony under the laws of the state he was living in at the time of the offense. If he was convicted of a Federal felony, then he has no legal way to own a firearm.

Not enough information was provided for me to even begin to guess as to his particular situation.

As for his wife, depending on the laws she is subject to she might simply have to deny him access to those firearms if she is the legal owner. If she was not convicted of a felony, then there is no prohibition on what she can legally own. The only stipulation I can think of, is that she must deny him access to her guns by keeping them locked in a safe or outside the dwelling in a secure location.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:33 PM

11. Has he had his civil rights restored without exception? nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:36 PM

12. Don't you have to be exonerated for that to be the case?

In which case he'd no longer be a convicted felon, and free to own guns. There would be no reason for him to claim they belong to his spouse.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:39 PM

13. Thank the NRA and ALEC

But they have pushed for gun rights restoration of convicted felons.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:52 PM

16. I wasn't aware a felon could get their gun rights restored.

It would appear I'm behind the times. I once was stalked by a convicted felon and the police had assured me at the time there was no way he could get his gun rights back short of a pardon.

I find this realization highly disturbing.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:06 PM

20. It is, in several states they have succeeded

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:48 PM

22. I find this to be interesting...

 

I've spoken to people on both sides of the equation, felons, gun rights activists, law enforcement, and other people. Not just about felons being granted firearms ownership, but the return of civil rights in general (like voting and holding public office).

Gun rights activists at a guess, seem to be about 40% in favor of granting non-violent offenders gun rights after they serve their time. Usually with the statement "if they can't be trusted to be free on the street, they should remain in prison". All but a few I've spoken with are universal on saying violent offenders should never own guns again. Most law enforcement seems to agree that felons should be barred forever from owning guns again.

When I've asked them about granting voting rights and holding office, surprisingly most people are in favor of that. In most states a felon can eventually gain his/her voting rights, if they're not automatically granted upon completion of the sentence. If I recall correctly there is one state, either Vermont or New Hampshire, where those serving time in prison can vote. I'm not sure what states will allow a felon to hold office, and which ones won't. Though I did read a few years back, that in North Carolina a felon did run for the office of sheriff in one county... It caused a bit of a stir, and he was allowed to run since his rights were restored, but he lost the election.

I'm a bit torn on the matter myself. I don't see the harm in letting a felon vote or run for office. But when it comes to guns, while they're legal in this country for most people, we do have a fairly large population of felons whom are legally disarmed. (I'm not counting those who break the law by illegally owning a firearm.) I have no desire to see a man convicted of bank robbery or another violent crime legally owning a firearm; but non-violent felons are a bit of a quandary for me.

If a man commits a crime, not one of violence, and serves his time he is released from his sentence. Thats the letter of the law, you cannot indefinitely imprison people past the completion of their sentence. If he commits another crime he should be punished for such. Yet if he becomes a productive member of society, committing no further offenses is it right to forever forbid him from owning that which is legal for other members of society?

But back to the topic of conversation, while several states have the legal process to allow felons to regain the right to own a firearm; not many allow the processes to go through. A felon can apply to go through the process all he wants to, but it's rare that it happens. Case in point, the Federal BATFE does in fact have an office designated to restore firearms rights to people convicted of felonies in Federal court; however Congress passed a law forbidding that office from ever receiving funding. Ergo the process is there, but it is denied to Federal felons by lack of funding.

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Response to R_Flagg_77 (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:48 PM

27. ^ Excellent post! ^

I've known several good people, men and women, who spent stints in jail for non-violent 'crimes' which harmed nobody.

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Response to R_Flagg_77 (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:55 PM

30. Alas ths is not hy the NRA wants it

It has precious little to do with civil rights. It's about selling gunz.

I wish we were not that cynical when it comes to the NRA but they have given little reason not to be over the last twenty years or so.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:46 PM

25. 'Ex-felons' can be somebody who was caught with an ounce of marijuana

In many, if not most states, in the past the drug laws were draconian. Not every 'ex-felon' served jail time for doing something violent or hurtful.

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Response to Mimosa (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:55 PM

31. See 22

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Response to Mimosa (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:41 PM

52. Any nonviolent offender shouldn't lose them in the first place.

Not with the current system we have.

Honestly, my concern is very specific and related to violent offenders. I've spent hours talking to people on the phone and researching this today. I've been assured repeatedly that under most normal situations those convicted of a violent crime, be it domestic or otherwise, don't get their gun rights back. Which helps me sleep tonight.

Some people should go straight to jail if they're found to be in possession of a firearm. Everyone may be created equal, but some people become real threats to society someplace along the way. I've known such people in the course of my life.

I'm just clarifying that I was in no way talking about nonviolent offenders. They're not my source of concern here.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:41 PM

14. Federal law says

 

What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

NOTE the second bold words are a specific exception.

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Response to jody (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:48 PM

15. I admit I wasn't aware of any clause other than exoneration applying.

That's enlightening, in an unpleasant way.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:55 PM

17. Some people refuse to believe RKBA is a civil right. Federal procedures exist but are in general not

 

available to restore RKBA for a felon convicted in federal courts.

As a civil right, when a convicted felon of state crimes has his/her civil rights restored to allow voting and an exception is not made for RKBA, then it is also restored.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:56 PM

18. Does he still have a drivers license...

 

and/or own a motor vehicle?

Does he ever get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle?

Does he still drink?

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:44 PM

24. If so you need to call ATF or local law enforcement.

I doubt it's all that common for convicted felons to own arsenals. Have YOU been in his home? Seen the weapons?

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:56 PM

32. There was a local gun store here for years, one owner the husband was a convicted

felon, the other owner his wife had the federal firearms license.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:59 PM

33. There was a convicted felon in my county that was giving classes

on CCW.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:01 PM

36. Another hole in the system is you, for failing to report the guy's illegally held weapons

 

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

38. William Spengler (the guy who shot the firefighters) was an ex-con with an armory.

This could end very badly. I suggest you try reporting again until you find someone who takes this seriously. Or you could be hating yourself later if something happens and you have to wonder if you did enough.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:17 PM

44. Maybe I am just being too logical...

But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a database comparison of "registered arsenals" to be compared with "addresses of parolees and/or convicted felons"?

Or did someone pass a law forbidding such easy data analysis?

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:26 PM

47. Whats a registered arsenal?

 

Now depending upon circumstances, firearms once owned by a convicted felon prior to conviction might be confiscated at the time of arrest. Just depends on the situation at hand... I'm not sure how many states have active gun registries, but most states don't. You simply fill out a form at the gun shop and take it home; and those forms by law cannot be used by the Federal government as a gun registry. So in most states, once the weapon is in the owners hands it simply falls off the radar.

Not to mention people move, even criminals, and unless they are actively serving probation or parole, or they're registered as sex offenders they are not required in any state to notify law enforcement of where they move. So your concept is essentially unworkable as it stands in most of the nation.

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Response to R_Flagg_77 (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:51 PM

53. "those forms by law cannot be used by the Federal government as a gun registry" --

That is insane. And yes, I think a reasonable definition of arsenal could be coded for detailed analysis - "more than ten" seems like a "double check for sanity" to me.

And if the Post Office can track forwarding addresses, well it is doable. So, who is keeping those forms?

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:20 PM

54. The form in question, is known as form 4473.

 

When you go to a Federally Firearms Licensee (FFL), a gun shop, and purchase a firearm that's what you fill out under Federal guide lines. One page form, asks for standard information, and asks a few simple questions. What the form is essentially a bill of sale. It goes into a log book kept by the FFL, and that log book is kept by the FFL until he closes business or the ATF audits his books.

The purpose behind this is to help track the guns to a certain extent. They can't be used to pinpoint where the guns are at all times, but rather who purchased the gun last based on the serial number. Which except for certain instances, such as antique firearms made before 1898 or guns built at home (which is legal, as long as you can legally own said firearm, so long as you do not sell the firearm); all guns in the United States are required to have serial numbers.

I just have one gun myself, for agricultural purposes; but I don't see an issue with people having more than ten guns. Case in point, I have a cousin whom is a wealthy, older man and he collects old German pistols; the type known as a Luger. As it turns out there's several dozen variations of the type and he enjoys the pursuit of tracking them down and studying them. I see no harm in that, but that's just me.

[link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473|

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:48 PM

48. Are you sure he has weapons?

If he does and you don't report it, you could be on the hook if that THUGLICAN commits any crimes and you didn't report it.

Drop his ass, fast.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)


Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:04 PM

50. he's killed more people with this car than with his guns. :-)

 

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:21 PM

51. My first ex-wife plead to a felony and has had all her rights restored

Just saying, it does happen. Her conviction was distribution of marijuana, after a length of time she got her rights back.

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