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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 01:55 PM

Andrea Mitchel just stopped a guest who ID'd herself as "pro-life"...

...and told her: "What I call anti-abortion...". Bravo Andrea.

As a grade school student in the mid-'60s when abortions were illegal, my mother was my prime political influence, and legalizing abortion was one of her central causes. I'll never forget one afternoon, when I got off the school bus and found my mother in the house crying openly.

Fearing something terrible had happened, I asked her what was wrong. She pointed out an article in the local newspaper describing the death of an area woman who hemorrhaged from a botched coat hanger abortion.

Something terrible had indeed happened, and people like Mitchel's guest would have been fine with that. She didn't deserve to call herself "pro-life", and Mitchel did what so many others in her line of work should begin doing.

Stop letting these people identify themselves as effin life savers.

104 replies, 15787 views

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Reply Andrea Mitchel just stopped a guest who ID'd herself as "pro-life"... (Original post)
JohnnyRingo Jan 2013 OP
Permanut Jan 2013 #1
intheflow Jan 2013 #5
Permanut Jan 2013 #6
texshelters Jan 2013 #15
intheflow Jan 2013 #28
uppityperson Jan 2013 #69
Matariki Jan 2013 #32
Flatulo Jan 2013 #41
intheflow Jan 2013 #59
RamblerBR Jan 2013 #61
hrmjustin Jan 2013 #62
DURHAM D Jan 2013 #65
MrModerate Jan 2013 #71
texshelters Jan 2013 #14
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #23
azureblue Jan 2013 #24
patrice Jan 2013 #35
intheflow Jan 2013 #37
rbixby Jan 2013 #29
intheflow Jan 2013 #2
EC Jan 2013 #3
90-percent Jan 2013 #4
Flashmann Jan 2013 #8
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #26
Flashmann Jan 2013 #36
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #46
Flashmann Jan 2013 #48
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #53
Flashmann Jan 2013 #67
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #73
Flashmann Jan 2013 #78
momsrule Jan 2013 #82
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #86
SemperEadem Jan 2013 #96
BlueStreak Jan 2013 #42
randome Jan 2013 #7
xxxsdesdexxx Jan 2013 #9
relayerbob Jan 2013 #10
elleng Jan 2013 #12
relayerbob Jan 2013 #80
patrice Jan 2013 #38
elleng Jan 2013 #11
butterfly77 Jan 2013 #13
pansypoo53219 Jan 2013 #16
Cha Jan 2013 #19
tavalon Jan 2013 #88
Cha Jan 2013 #90
Zoeisright Jan 2013 #20
efhmc Jan 2013 #99
SemperEadem Jan 2013 #97
Dawgs Jan 2013 #17
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #18
NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #21
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #54
NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #55
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #63
NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #72
Iwillnevergiveup Jan 2013 #83
Taverner Jan 2013 #22
Bjornsdotter Jan 2013 #25
MissMarple Jan 2013 #30
SemperEadem Jan 2013 #98
leanforward Jan 2013 #27
Rex Jan 2013 #31
ecstatic Jan 2013 #33
Lex Jan 2013 #34
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #39
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #40
LibDemAlways Jan 2013 #43
Flaxbee Jan 2013 #74
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #79
Jake2413 Jan 2013 #44
George II Jan 2013 #45
tavalon Jan 2013 #89
George II Jan 2013 #95
tavalon Jan 2013 #102
George II Jan 2013 #103
tavalon Jan 2013 #104
Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #47
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #49
Texas Lawyer Jan 2013 #50
pacalo Jan 2013 #51
WeekendWarrior Jan 2013 #52
SunSeeker Jan 2013 #58
Janecita Jan 2013 #56
Tx4obama Jan 2013 #57
samsingh Jan 2013 #60
n2doc Jan 2013 #64
spanone Jan 2013 #66
Quantess Jan 2013 #68
PennsylvaniaMatt Jan 2013 #70
Foxman58 Jan 2013 #75
Rose Siding Jan 2013 #76
HockeyMom Jan 2013 #77
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #81
JohnnyRingo Jan 2013 #91
TomChicago Jan 2013 #84
RainDog Jan 2013 #85
D23MIURG23 Jan 2013 #87
Ineeda Jan 2013 #92
DFW Jan 2013 #93
maddiemom Jan 2013 #94
PatrynXX Jan 2013 #100
Chemisse Jan 2013 #101

Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:03 PM

1. Point taken..

glad to see the call-out, but I refer to them as anti-choice, and I refer to my position as pro-choice. This is in reaction to being called "pro-abortion", which is a gross mischaracterization of my view. This, I suppose, could be a nitpick, except that these people are not just anti-choice for themselves, but they want to cram it down everybody's throat. Still glad to see the call-out, in any form.

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Response to Permanut (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:06 PM

5. Pro-choice is a market-based description.

I prefer to refer to it as human rights. Every human has the right to control their own body. There is no choice involved.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:13 PM

6. You have an even better point.

Well said.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:48 PM

15. Seems to me a woman

makes a choice to have a baby or not, unless you are arguing against free will, which is for another forum. And, yes it is a human right. Well said.

PTxS

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Response to texshelters (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:30 PM

28. Women can only "choose" to have an abortion if

there are safe, available, affordable medical facilities that perform abortions in their area. Rich women will always be able to "choose" to abort because if they can't get an abortion in their hometown, or even if it becomes illegal again, it's legal elsewhere and they have the means to get there. Poor women, not so much. That's what I mean by "choice" being a market-based coinage.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:12 PM

69. And that is what most of Roe v Wade was about. Equality.

It is interesting how many people do not know that but think Roe v Wade was just about making abortions legal.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:36 PM

32. +millions

Very well said.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:51 PM

41. I agree. Let's de-criminalize prostitution.

A person certainly owns their sex organs as well as their reproductive organs.

Regulate it and tax the hell out of it.

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Response to Flatulo (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:42 PM

59. Would certainly make it safer.

For both the prostitutes and in terms of public health.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #5)


Response to RamblerBR (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:57 PM

62. Women should have reproductive rights. We should not tell them what to do with their bodies.

I don't like abortion, but than again nobody likes abortion. It is a sad choice that a person is faced with, but that woman should have the right to make her decision without people judging her. It is between her and those close to her.

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Response to RamblerBR (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:02 PM

65. No and No

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Response to RamblerBR (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:16 PM

71. A fetus is not a "baby" . . .

A fetus is a potential baby.

Society and the relevant mechanism by which society expresses itself -- law -- determine the point at which the transition to personhood occurs. There's no scientific or religious "truth" involved.

In other words, your calling it "murder" doesn't make it so.

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Response to Permanut (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:46 PM

14. You are correct

No one is "pro-abortion" but we know that the choice is unfortunately necessary. So, it's "pro-choice", thank you.

PTxS

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Response to Permanut (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:23 PM

23. Personally I am pro-life and pro-choice. And I don't see a conflict with that.

Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

But I am a man so maybe that makes it easier for me to feel that way.

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Response to Permanut (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:24 PM

24. they can be also called

anti God, because the Bible says very clearly that life begins with the first breath.

Job 33:4-“The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Ezekiel 37: 5&6- “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

Try quoting this to an anti abortionist....

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Response to azureblue (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:39 PM

35. +1 for the courage to talk The Bible here. BTW, nice cite!

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Response to azureblue (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:41 PM

37. One of the best abortion rights arguments to give a fundy.

I'd heard it before but had forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder!

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Response to Permanut (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:30 PM

29. Perhaps the 'pro-lifers' could become 'pro-coathanger abortion' types?

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:03 PM

2. Seriously. When did a potential life become more valuable than

a life already being lived fully?

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:04 PM

3. It really irked me when she

started spouting figures about how abortions can be lessened with easier access to birth control...saying like Democrats haven't been saying this for decades....arguing with the likes of her about it and showing them statistics that they ignored. Now that they are in trouble with women, they act as though they just discovered this.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:04 PM

4. the late Molly Ivans nailed it

They aren't pro life, they're PRO BIRTH!

Once you pop out, you are on your own, baby!

-90% Jimmy

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Response to 90-percent (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:18 PM

8. Funny how the pro life dipshits

Advocate all these rights for the poor,poor unborn,then systematically and,in all practicality, revoke them upon birth.....It's even funnier that they fail to grasp the hypocrisy in their positions...Funnier still is they expect to be taken seriously,in any meaningful dialogue....

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:28 PM

26. Why do you call me a dipshit? I am pro-choice.

But I am also, as you would say, pro-life.

What is your problem with that?

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:39 PM

36. Do I really need to explain

That my remarks referred to the anti abortion,anti contraceptive "prolifers"which I described as dipshits in that context??....Really??....

But hey....If you're a pro lifer,who then wants to defund/disallow such things as programs geared to infant well being and healthcare,Head Start Programs....School lunches,education.....A laundry list of things that should be regarded as absolute rights,in this society,then I guess I was talking to you.....The prolife folks I spoke of are only prolife before birth....Afterwards??....Not so much......

Context,my dear fellow,can mean a world of difference.....

*ETA*

If what I describe fits you,and my term "dipshits" offends you,feel free to substitute irrational,small minded and short sighted....

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:35 PM

46. Context indeed, my dear Flashmann. Did you read the OP of this thread?

By your entire text it shows you don't understand the difference between anti-abortion and pro-life.

So if what you describe fits me, does that means you are anti-choice as well as prone to name calling?

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:49 PM

48. Did you read the OP of this thread

Why yes..In fact I did........I do understand the difference between prolife and anti abortion....I wish abortions were never necessary,but I 100% support a woman having the choice to have,or not have one.....So,no...I am definitely not antichoice....If you can take a broad stroke comment and convince yourself that it was directed specifically toward you.....Well...That only makes my point about small mindedness.....

Going through this thread,I notice several other replies from people expressing,in various wording,exactly the same sentiments I did....I also notice you haven't deemed those worthy of responding to,which is in a warped way,a little flattering.....

As I have no intention to be involved in a flame war with anyone relying solely on simple minded circular logic,this will be me last word to you on this subject.....Have a nice day....

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #48)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:21 PM

53. I reread the thread, didn't see anyone else that was calling pro-life people names.

I see by this post that you agree with me entirely, pro-life and anti abortion.
I wish abortions were never necessary,but I 100% support a woman having the choice to have,or not have one

So why the name calling for pro-life people?

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:05 PM

67. Alright

Despite saying I was done,I'll play one more round,and I'll type really slow so you can keep up.....

Although I'm convinced I articulated the point,clearly enough that anyone in possession of middle school level reading and comprehension skills should adequately be able to grasp,I'll reiterate.....The group I allude to as pro-life people,and who my name calling is directed towards,are people claiming to be pro life,when in fact they are simply pro fetus....They have no interest in providing for that fetus,once born,any sort of sustenance for that baby or it's mother...They stand on some warped principle,against anything that would positively impact the development of that child into a responsible citizen...If he/she goes hungry,to school dressed in rags,lacking the funds for basic school supplies....Isn't afforded the opportunity for luxuries such as immunizations,dental care,vision corrections.....The stunning disregard for life....Quality of life.....The people of that mindset who call themselves pro life,and are anything but...That is the crowd I call dipshits...Small minded....Short sighted....Ignorant beyond description...Selfish...Callous....

That is the point I made,I think quite clearly,from my first reply on....That someone would overlook the point being made,and get their panties in a wad,because while making my point,I called someone a name,is nothing short of disconnected and ridiculous....Boooo hhhhooohooooooo.....The point I made,sans the dipshit,is what I cited as others wording the same sentiments differently......But hey....If you can cherry pick one post,why stop there,eh?...

To presume that I singled you out,for name calling,before I had ever even heard of you,is laughable,and ludicrous...

That you are incapable of seeing beyond some mostly harmless subtext,to the point of obvious obsession,while overlooking the intended big picture point,suggests to me a degree of likelihood you may be one of those fake pro lifers....Otherwise,why express offense?.....Next you'll want me to believe there isn't a group that you find utterly repulsive,let's just say nazi's,that you wouldn't refer to with an all encompassing epithet....

I stand by every word I said......

If I didn't type slow enough for you to understand,ask your mommy to read it to you.....Or,perhaps one of your teachers....At least get an adult to help you...

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #67)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:04 PM

73. If you thought I implied you singled me out, sorry.

But it still goes back to the point of the OP, anti-abortion is not equal to pro-life.

And from your previous post, you are pro-life and pro-choice, just as I am. Soo... when you call pro-life people dipshits, do you know you are calling yourself a dipshit? This is what I am incapable of understanding.

It all goes back to reading comprehension, please reread the OP, it's all there.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #73)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:54 PM

78. Response to A Simple Mind....Last one.....

Evidently slow typing doesn't help you......Who I call dipshits are people who falsely claim to be pro life.....This really is tiresome......Do you understand what the word distinction means??...I'll wait a moment while you look it up,or ask a grownup......

Got it??.....That isn't very convincing,but I'll continue anyway.....I make a distinction between people who falsely claim to be pro life,evidenced by ,again,their refusal and inability to address the needs of children born into circumstances of misfortune,that they have no control over...These people vote for Pols whose agendas entail defunding virtually every program,(read safety net)that help these unfortunates play on a level field,educationwise.....Again.....Immunization programs...Lunch and milk subsidies...The folks who show by their actions,or lack of,that they really don't care.....Hungry dirty kids??..They should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps...I'm not going through a laundry list of examples for someone who's shown a repeated and persistent unwillingness/inability to recognize nuanced distinction......These people SAY they are pro life.....Their actions say they are NOT.....These would be who I called dipshits....

Conversely,there are people who vote for Pols who put forth policies,school lunch programs,for just one example again,that help people......They contribute their time and applicable skills,as I do,money when they can,that actually help people,in all stages of life,but certainly as babies,toddlers and children....

The distinction is both groups claim to be pro life.....One simply pays lip service,the other acts....
One group I refer to as dipshits....One group I do not.....

So,to recap.....Two words for today that will benefit you greatly to understand,when you reach puberty and adulthood...Distinction and nuance.....

Please don't bother me anymore with your inanely adolescent and pathetic attempts at civil discourse...My two grandsons 12 and 10,exhibit greater comprehension skills than you....They,at least recognize when they're intellectually out classed,and strive to bring themselves up to speed....

As I note in the reply title,this will be my last response to you on this topic......I really don't know how I might dumb down my position any further,without resorting to speaking to you as I do to my TWO year old grandson,and I'm unwilling to make that effort to a______fill in the blank yourself....If you can manage....

So post away,with more blather and bluster,Simple Mind,to your hearts content,but understand that I am done with you....

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:01 PM

82. I agree entirely!

You have stated yourself very clearly and I agree with everything you have put to print inclusive of the poor comprehension of a pesky respondent! I raise my glass to you.

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:30 AM

86. Last one, yeah, I've heard that before. I think you actually like me but won't admit it.

Must be you are still typing too fast, wait I think you are implying I'm slow. No big surprise from someone that calls pro-life people dipshits.

I honestly, and I did reread your posts(slowly), don't see any distinction and nuance about your calling pro-life people dipshits. The OP is a fine example you really should reread it. If you read it slowly perhaps you can get the distinction and nuance of being anti-abortion vs being pro-life. Wow I learned two new words today, Gramma will be so proud of me.

Now this:
The distinction is both groups claim to be pro life.....One simply pays lip service,the other acts....
One group I refer to as dipshits....One group I do not.....

This tells me that you kind of understand the distinction, the distinction is not that they both claim it, the distinction is that one says it the other acts on it, or the difference between anti-abortion and pro-life. So you were actually close. God I love using new words. Then you call the good guys, the pro-lifers, dipshits. It confuses me, and you know how easily I am confused, especially when I feel I'm one of the good guys. Then you say you are pro-life and I wonder why you would call yourself a dipshit, and now I'm in an even deeper fog. Well it could be worse, at least you only consider yourself a dipshit, apparently I'm a slow dipshit.

Congratulations on your grandsons, my oldest grandson is 14.

Darn it I forgot to use the word nuance. Oh wait, no I didn't, it's in there. For a minute there I thought I would need to do another post.


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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #86)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:41 AM

96. you're one of those "gotta have the last word" kind of

attention seekers, huh?

You'll offer up proof of that in the response below this one.

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Response to 90-percent (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:53 PM

42. +1000

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:15 PM

7. Mitchell has been standing up more often to these buffoons. Good for her!

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:36 PM

9. I really do hate the terms "Pro-life" and "Pro-Choice"

"Pro-life" implies that those opposing it are "Pro-death" or "Pro-abortion" and that's simply not the case. I cannot say every single person in the U.S. is "Anti-abortion," because that's truly not the case with some of the mentally ill people out there, but I'm confident that most people are not "Pro-abortion." I know it's a blanket statement, but everybody in general is "Pro-life" while only some of us are "Pro-choice". We really need to change the terms of the conversation because I most certainly am not "Pro-abortion" or "Pro-death."

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:37 PM

10. Was she also ...

anti-gun, pro-universal health care, for massive improvements in education and anti-war?

If not, she's certainly not "pro-life".

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:43 PM

12. Issues not addressed.

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Response to elleng (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:28 PM

80. It was a rhetorical question ...

the bulk of "pro-lifers" seem to be quite happy to arrange for quick and painful deaths after birth

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:42 PM

38. There's my problem with all of the labels. Which one sub-sums all of this & gender pay equity

besides? Social Justice? Economic Justice?

Not-Just-Us?

Those are the most fundamental differences between the opposed cohorts.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:42 PM

11. Yes she did, and it was an interesting interview.

The guest, whose name I don't recall, seems to reflect a very good point of view and I hope tendency among republicans, to identify PROPERLY the 'reasonable' issues to address. She said (my terms and recollection) govt should 'encourage' birth control, as its both a moral and budgetary issue, prevents 'need' for abortions and avoids costs to people and governments.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:43 PM

13. The same people..

who do their damndest to kill them once they are born.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:59 PM

16. i'd rather they be called pro-fetus. that is ALL they care about.

not the woman, not the CHILD. ONLY BIRTH.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:13 PM

19. This seems to be the most accurate description of

them all. "Pro fetus" above all else and then Boom.. after it's dropped.. it's total abandonment.

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:35 AM

88. I actually call them anti woman

Because while they seem pro fetus, they are actually pro punishment for the "evil" woman who dared to have sex "inappropriately". In other words, they think it's right to punish the sinner and they get to decide who the sinner is. They stand in judgement instead of leaving that to their God.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:45 AM

90. Exactly. That's to remember..

Thanks, tavalon

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:22 PM

20. But they're not even pro-fetus.

They cut funding for research into fetal health and diseases, they cut funding for prenatal care, and they HATE WIC. What they are is anti-woman.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:23 AM

99. Zoe is indeed right.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:43 AM

97. so true

because they also seem to be pro death penalty at the same time.

seem very hypocritical to me.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:07 PM

17. Don't agree with Mitchell either. "Anti-abortion" is exactly what they want to be called.

The term she should have used is anti-choice. Even better, she should have called it "anti-woman's right to choose".

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:08 PM

18. We need to change the language. I don't know anyone who is "pro-abortion". That woman is anti-choice

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:22 PM

21. There ARE "pro-abortion" people: those who support forced abortions, like what they do in China.

And every pro-choice person I have met personally has opposed that; they are pro-CHOICE.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:33 PM

54. That's not "pro-abortion," that's anti-choice.

Don't fall into the semantics of the anti-choicers. The anti-choicers in China and the anti-choicers in the U.S. are very similar: both take a women's choice of whether or not to give birth away from her. They just pick different choices to take away.

As suggested by the OP, being "Pro-Life" is euphemistic doublespeak. Pro-lifers are invariably pro-death penalty and have no problem with the loss of the lives of women through botched back alley abortions. They are not particularly "pro" the life of anyone who works at an abortion clinic either. If anything, they are pro-forced-birthers.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #54)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:37 PM

55. It's both. It is also anti-choice and very much in line with

the anti-choice, pro-birth position here.

The thing is, one can be both "anti-abortion" (think abortion is wrong/murder/whatever) AND pro-choice. Being both means you personally think it's wrong (and if you're a woman, would never want to have one yourself), but you also don't believe in pushing your personal morality onto others. In fact there are many people who are "anti-abortion" and "pro-choice".

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #55)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:00 PM

63. And you can be both pro-abortion and pro-choice.

I'm pro-abortion and pro-choice. I agree with Sister Simone Campbell: "Abortion is a blessing to women who need it." It is almost always sad that any women should need an abortion, just like it is always sad that any women should need a mastectomy. However, mastectomies and abortions are important and often life-saving medical procedures. I am "pro" any legal medical procedure a woman chooses to have performed on her own body that improves her quality of life.

I do not aspire to a mastectomy or an abortion; no women does. And of course women must not be forced to have an abortion or mastectomy. Nor can we ever force women to give birth. Yet that is exactly what anti-choicers seek by outlawing abortion. The irony is they would not be ending abortion, just safe legal abortions. And they would be causing a lot more death, not life.



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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #63)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:41 PM

72. "I am "pro" any legal medical procedure a woman chooses to have performed on her own body

that improves her quality of life"

That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell for me.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #72)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:07 PM

83. Yes!

For me, it's pro-PRIVACY! If I want to carry a child to term and take responsibility for raising him/her, that's my business. If I cannot for whatever reason(s) carry a child to term, that's also my business.

I remember back in the 50's a business associate of my dad used abortion as a form of birth control. Now that's just sad, but I'm sure she wasn't alone.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:22 PM

22. +100

 

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:25 PM

25. I use...


....forced pregnancy. They believe in forced pregnancy.

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Response to Bjornsdotter (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:31 PM

30. Yes, government control of human reproduction.

And that sounds scary, crazy science fiction scary.

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Response to MissMarple (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:48 AM

98. and that is the riposte that they should be met with

"blah blah blah.. I am pro-life..."

"do you believe that the government has any right in forcing a woman to do anything with her body that she does not want?"

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:29 PM

27. Choice for any woman.

Way to go Andrea.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:35 PM

31. Good for her!

They should not get away with the dishonest tag of "pro-life" unless they actually are in all aspects of the term. She is correct, they are anti-abortion.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:36 PM

33. The only time she's right is when it comes to women's issues nt

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:37 PM

34. EXACTLY---you cannot be pro-life and not care if women die in back-alley abortions. nt

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:42 PM

39. Andrea also could have said - "Forced birth"

Because that's what it is.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:42 PM

40. what a great post about a great moment in media

WOW! So rare to see the pundits actually STAND UP and support women. As if women's lives matter!? Astounding!

Even other women, brainwashed by fetus fetishism (stemming from religion or other conventional ideas) , end up harming women and girls.

Like female genital mutilation. It's women who carry out the procedure on young girls. Conforming to tradition, they allow themselves to be blind to suffering.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:53 PM

43. They are "pro birth," and, unfortunately,

generally don't give a rat's ass what happens to the baby after the birth.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:15 PM

74. exactly... Jennifer Granholm had a very good piece about this in the Huffington Post a while back

Pro-birth, and to hell with the kids once they're born, as she calls it, "the distinction represented by the cervical wall."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-m-granholm/republicans-what-about-ch_b_1835134.html

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:12 PM

79. Whenever someone gives me the pro-choice argument, I smile and ask them when they....

....intend to step up and adopt one of the thousands upon thousands of unwanted babies in orphanages all across the country.

Without any pause, I then ask them when they expect to put together legislation at the grassroots level to make it MUCH easier to adopt an American baby, especially kids who are the product of rape and/or incest.

Additionally, I ask them if they intend to couple that legislation with language that makes it MUCH more difficult for US citizens to adopt (basically buy) a baby overseas.

Just to drive in the last nail in the conversation I ask them to quote an exact word-for-word verse from the Bible claiming that all life begins at the moment the egg is fertilized. I personally don't recall any language like that in the Bible, but maybe I'll get surprised one day.

The "discussion" usually ends at that point.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:59 PM

44. I'm not a big Andrea Mitchell fan but bravo.

These people are anything but pro-life.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:15 PM

45. She, like me, are "pro-choice" and "anti-abortion"

I wouldn't want my wife to have an abortion (she can't anyway, being after menopause, but whatever....) but don't think it's my place to tell another woman she couldn't have one.

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Response to George II (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:39 AM

89. You can't even tell your wife she can't have one

You don't own her. You are bonded with her but that's different from owning. Go check with her and if you're still alive, feel free to report back what you find.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:29 AM

95. What a snotty response to my post....MYOFB!

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Response to George II (Reply #95)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:48 PM

102. I didn't mean to sound snotty

I meant to use it as a teaching tool. Women are seen as possessions and I noticed what looked like that assumption on your part. I had just watched Alias where the boyfriend of the main spy woman goes to her father to ask for her hand in marriage and it rankled me because it was another example of seeing women as possessions to be sold or given away, in the case of the boyfriend/father dynamic.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #102)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:49 PM

103. Well, we discussed the issue even before we got married, and we agree on it and most other things...

.....so it was never a matter of me telling her she couldn't have an abortion, just that if we found ourselves in that position it wouldn't happen. It was a collective thing for us, not an "edict". We are in this together, and neither tells the other what to do, but thankfully we agree on that even though I would never deny the opportunity to her or anyone.

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Response to George II (Reply #103)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:14 AM

104. I figured you probably weren't overtly sexist

I'm one of those women who knew, after many failed attempts at pregnancy, that I would never abort a child, but I took care of many women who chose that route for a myriad of reasons. I never saw any conflict.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:37 PM

47. Kick.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:54 PM

49. If they were REALLY "pro-life"

They would work to transform this into a country that actually RESPECTS AND HONORS "life"...rather than just making it impossible to get an abortion(OR contraception, as most of them also want to do, for some twisted reason);

They would work for a living wage for all, so that no one felt that they had to have an abortion because they couldn't afford a child(or another child);

They would work to make business stop punishing women for having children(if men don't have to choose between family and career, women shouldn't have to either);

They would work against war, because killing on the battlefield(or of civilians from bombers far above the "field")would be just as wrong to them AS abortion is;

And they would work to make sure that all people are treated with dignity and respect, and are valued as the treasures each human being is, so that the impulse to suicide was sharply reduced;

But(other than the "seamless garment" minority)they DON'T do that. And those who don't don't give a damn about life...they just hate the idea of women LIVING life on their own terms, as men usually get to.

And frankly, many of them just plain hate women...including some "pro-life" women themselves(I seriously doubt, for example, that Phyllis Schlafly or Sarah Palin or Ann Coulter have ANY female friends).

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:56 PM

50. When people describe themselves as "pro-life," I confess that I am also against the death penalty

because I would never want to see someone killed in my name (these death penalty cases are commonly styled The People versus The Accused or The State versus The Accused, etc.).

When it comes to the issue a woman's medical care, however, so long as she isn't seeking her medical care in my name (The People versus My Sister's Kidney Stones), it just doesn't seem like I should get a vote in the matter.

Oddly, I have yet to meet someone who described themselves as "pro-life" who opposed the death penalty (yes, I know they exist, but I haven't run into any).

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:01 PM

51. They're as "pro-life" as they are "conservatives".

Andrea deserves kudos for wiping the lipstick off of that pig, but I still chuckle to myself whenever I see the term "conservative" used for categorizing an illogical, extremist lunatic. There are no conservatives anymore -- they've all bailed on the Republican party.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:05 PM

52. Actually, I think they should be called Pro Pre-Life

Because they sure don't give a damn about them after they're born.

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Response to WeekendWarrior (Reply #52)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:38 PM

58. No, they don't give a crap about healthy pregnancies either. They're pro-forced-birthers. Period.

If they cared about fetuses, they wouldn't also invariably be conservatives who want to slash spending on prenatal care for the poor.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:38 PM

56. I call them

"Pro-birth" they only care about the zygote and the fetus. Once the baby is born he is on his own!!!

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:38 PM

57. Below is a link to the VIDEO



VIDEO Here: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/andrea-mitchell-corrects-guest-who-called-herself-pro-life-anti-abortion-is-more-value-neutral/



Mitchell introduced Juleanna Glover on her program to discuss her proposals for how the GOP soften its hardline stance on access to contraception.

Mitchell started to introduce her guest before she was cut off. “Let’s just establish that you have been very strongly your whole career…”

“I am deeply pro-life,” Glover replied.

“Well, anti-abortion,” Mitchell objected. “To use the term that I think is more value-neutral.

-snip-

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:47 PM

60. win two elections and suddenly the media is starting to do their jobs

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:01 PM

64. Fetus worshippers

And they are a cult.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:04 PM

66. k&r...

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:06 PM

68. Anti choice is also succinct. (no text)

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:14 PM

70. Republicans are only for the "Sanctity of Life" for the 9 months preceding a child's birth

Once that child is born, they don't care how terrible that child's life is. They block every attempt by Democrats to make that individual's life better.

Born into a family with no health care? The GOP response: "Well, expanding Medicaid or S-CHIP is "socialized medicine". Coincidently, our elderly supporters love the health care they get from the VA and Medicare!"

Go to a poor public school? The GOP response: "Forget better investments, it's the unions fault."

Join the military? The GOP response: "We're going to send you to war, but once your home from war, we're going to block efforts by Democrats to expand VA funding or jobs programs!"

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:39 PM

75. They aren't REALLY Pro-Life...

They're Pro-Birth.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:43 PM

76. I'm grateful to your mother.

And good for Mitchel. She'll take heat for that remark, I bet. Thanks for the story.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:47 PM

77. They are Pro-BIRTH, not Pro-Life

because once it isn't a fetus anymore, but an infant, child, or adult, they could care less what happens to it.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:59 PM

81. I watched the interview. It was more complicated than you indicated.

The woman was anti-abortion, but she was also vigorously pro-contraception and felt that the government should fight any group that tried to limit access to contraceptives and that insurance plans should be forced to provide contraception coverage. Her reason was that contraceptives prevented abortions, a a fact many progressive also point to. The woman went on to attack people on her side that claim that contraceptives caused loose sexual behavior, pointing out that any person that slept around would sleep around regardless of whether that person had access to contraceptives.

I don't like her overall cause, but the reason for the interview was her support for access to contraceptives for all women.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:56 AM

91. Yes, it was.

But after Mitchel corrected her, I only casually listened as I typed.

I was just so glad to hear someone of note take an anti-abortion advocate off her moral pedastal, I was driven to share.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:26 PM

84. pro-what?

They are more accurately described as "pro-birth". It is not "life" they are usually quacking about, or they would be far more concerned with improving it (life) for everybody.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:28 PM

85. they're religious (mostly) fanatics who share more in common with the taliban than Americans

If someone has strong opinions about abortion because of religion - then let them practice those beliefs. However, DO NOT TRY TO FORCE YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS.

There is no logic behind the idea of "pro-life" as it is practiced in the U.S.

Those who are "pro-life" need to, frankly, SHUT THE FUCK UP and put your time and energy into making this nation a place that makes it possible for a single mother to exist without falling into a lifetime of poverty - because THAT'S what they are thrusting upon most women with this stance.

Since these clumps of fetal tissue are aborted naturally, every day, far more often than any baby is ever born, it DISGUSTS me to see people who would force birth upon anyone who is not capable of giving birth for whatever reason.

We have legal limits to abortion that consider the issue of viability. If this is not enough for some people - they need to understand that they are extremists. They do not speak for the majority of Americans and the sooner they stop getting air time on national tv to spout religious nonsense, the better off we'll all be.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:21 AM

87. +10E9

"Prolife" is really pro-blastula , and anti-woman.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:41 AM

92. Not to mix the two

but, invariably, the so-called 'pro-life' person is also pro-death penalty, pro-all-guns-all-the-time and anti-anything and everything that might help a reluctant or unready mother, such as prenatal care. And they are always against helping her post-born child. The gun nuts are already ignoring the horror of twenty mangled 6 and 7 year old corpses that used to be wanted, beloved children, but I guarantee each and every one is rabidly all for saving unwanted or non-viable fetuses.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:01 AM

93. If you are against the death penalty, a pacifist, AND a vegetarian

THEN I'll listen to claims of "pro-life." Otherwise, Mitchell is correct. It is just "anti-abortion rights."

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:46 AM

94. I made this correction to woman I sometimes worked with

when she was raving on about "pro abortion" people: no one is pro abortion; they're pro choice. She actually went out of her way to avoid speaking to me after that, although we'd been quite friendly before. Now that she knew what a terrible person I was... Bravo, Andrea.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:31 AM

100. well on the religious side they have to say this

because if they couldn't they cant sleep at night.

The simple response I usually get is a woman's body isn't her own. God owns it.. ahem yeah but in america .... we tolerate other religions too. bonk. so yeah I've had a tendency to get my ass in trouble with old friends via correcting things to anti abortion.


hence

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:32 PM

101. So many people who are 'pro-life' are also quite enthusiastic about the death penalty.

So they are at the height of hypocrisy when they call themselves that.

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