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Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:33 AM

The true reason there is so much opposition to Chuck Hagel as Defense Secretary?

And the President should be commended for the appointment.

But the reason so many are opposed to Chuck Hagel is that they know he will cut the bloated defense budget. This is their gravy train and they don't want anyone that will lay a spike on the track.

Hagel's job will be to end the war in Afghanistan and to take care of the troops in the process. Also, his job will be to cut the waste out of much of the defense spending. A trillion dollars per year is simply not sustainable.

The President understands that it would be much more difficult to do with a Democrat at the helm. His Party would be charged with decimating our military and making us weak on defense. It is slightly less difficult with a Republican in charge.

The Republicans want "deficit reduction" and I think they might just get it with Chuck Hagel?

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Reply The true reason there is so much opposition to Chuck Hagel as Defense Secretary? (Original post)
kentuck Jan 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #1
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #10
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #12
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #15
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #16
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #18
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #19
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #20
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #21
TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #23
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #24
BumRushDaShow Jan 2013 #2
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #3
progressoid Jan 2013 #22
bowens43 Jan 2013 #4
KoKo Jan 2013 #5
gateley Jan 2013 #26
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #6
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #11
MrMickeysMom Jan 2013 #7
Figaro78 Jan 2013 #8
SCVDem Jan 2013 #9
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #14
Pab Sungenis Jan 2013 #13
Marr Jan 2013 #17
1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #25

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:23 AM

1. Agree--nobody would have dared call him anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel

while he was in the Senate. That is a totally manufactured smear. It's mostly about the money, but in addition, they are afraid he will be the voice telling Obama to reconsider an attack on Iran.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:44 AM

10. +1, My understanding is there are NO direct quotes of him saying anything anti semetic

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:52 AM

12. To my knowledge it was the phrase "Jewish Lobby", which apparently

other people have used without being screamed at as anti-Semitic. It was not the correct term to use, but no one thought there was anything insidious about it at the time (2008)--the author himself simply thought he misspoke. Only when Obama was poised to put Hagel in a position of power did it suddenly become a big deal. Totally transparent smear job. Edit to add, here's Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida with his "Jewish Lobby" friends:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113427516

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:59 AM

15. His defining quote was in answer to the question 'Shall we invade Iraq' and the full Hagel reply:

"Yes" said Chuck.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:02 PM

16. Well, then that would have disqualified: Joe Biden as VP, John Kerry

as SoS, Hillary Clinton as SoS, Bob Gates (since he was obviously on board with Cheney's plans, agreeing to oversee the war), and a whole slew of other decent public servants. There's only so far you can take this line of attack.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:22 PM

18. And Gates was another Republican, I opposed him. Clinton and Biden did not get my primary vote

and many on DU claimed that Clinton was a war monger because of that vote, said that vote alone made her disqualified for office. Now they don't mind that Hagel did the same. How can that be done with a straight face?
In addition, TG, this 'line of attack' is just a simple statement of fact. He is being nominated for Sec of Defense. A man who voted to go to war against a nation that did not attack us. A man who bought into that crap and voted for the bombing of Iraq, Shock, Awe, the works.
I think people who make such a stupid and murderous choice should not be rewarded with more power.
There is only so much you can do to downplay the fact that Hagel voted for both of the wars his supporters claim he opposed....

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:26 PM

19. Here is what you had to say about Hillary's rationale for her Iraq War vote:

TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message

23. WTF with the "Chuck Hagel did it too" defense? Big Dawg also used it, with his "Fairy Tale" slam on Obama. They have that coordinated, obviously. Nice that they hold my Senator in such high regard that they use him for their own defense, but she really needs to take responsibility for her own actions and not point to a Republican as an excuse.

The whole thread is an eye opening experience:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2673918

Another fun thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4596694

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:34 PM

20. Why are they pointing to a REPUBLICAN in defense of her war vote?

What did she have to lose, vs. what Hagel had to lose? Did they expect better judgment from him than from her? I thought it was odd then, and odd now. Lincoln Chaffee had the guts to vote no on Iraq in the GOP, and then his career was pretty much over. No Democrat had any real excuse for voting yes.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:52 PM

21. Yeah, I'm not talking about what THEY are saying. I'm looking at what you said.

And it is hilariously stark. You offer up Hillary as an excuse for Hagel's vote. I say he voted for that war, you use Hillary, Biden all of them to excuse what Hagel did. Yet you castigate her for doing the same thing, much as you castigate her for the vote while giving the Republican right winger a pass for the same damn vote.
Why is SHE using Hagel as an excuse for her vote? Why are YOU using her as an excuse for Hagel's?
I am not Hillary, not Bill and I did not support her in the primary in part because of her vote for the stupidest, most immoral war in our history.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:10 PM

23. He was my Senator, and no, I don't and have never given him a pass--

he knew more than anyone that it was probably a wrong choice, based on his pre-vote speech. He bent to political pressure, but it was from his own party and President. He also would have had to answer to the people of Nebraska for a "no" vote, who were and are extremely conservative and pro-military--and would have ended up to the LEFT of Ben Nelson, which would have blown the collective minds of all Nebraskans. That said, I don't give anyone a pass, but I certainly think they should have acknowledged they were wrong and made it clear that they learned some lessons. Hagel did that, so I have no problem with his judgment as SecDef in that regard. Hillary did well as SoS, too, so her judgment has obviously gotten better--not sure about her pressuring Obama to increase forces in Afghanistan in 2009, though. I still don't know if that was a good idea or not--remains to be seen.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:48 PM

24. That's funny stuff.

What you did here today was hold up the Democrats who voted for Iraq as defense of Hagel, although you had roundly criticized Hillary for holding Hagel as defense for her Iraq vote. You have also criticized Hillary very strongly about that vote itself, and yet Hagel...well if we dare quote his bigoted words or recount his voting record, the Pro Hagel people start shouting about Jews and Israel. I don't get that shit at all. Not at all.
You support the vote suppressing, bigoted Republican who supported all Bush wars until it became very unpopular to do so. He has remained a Republican, he has never shown in word or in action that his anti gay views have changed. That's just not the sort of person I want to see in power. You do. It is what it is.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:27 AM

2. Exactly right.

The past 4 years have successfully removed all of the GOP talking points one by one which is why they have exploded into pieces, with no core philosphy left but extremist lunatic rantings.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:06 AM

3. The true reason for me is that he is a Republican.

 

In what world can only a Republican "cut the bloated defense budget"?

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:03 PM

22. Agreed.

Apparently the Democratic party is all out of qualified people?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:36 AM

4. He's a republcan. It's a dumbass choice....

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:39 AM

5. Hagel is worth a try...but, who knows if he will "cut the bloated defense budget."

How can we trust he "will end the war in Afghanistan?" We have seen many politicians take stands and then change later. Some even doing a 360.

It's Brennan that has me very worried. On the other hand...maybe he's given up "torture" and neo-con policies and will do a 360 himself.

Whatever..... we aren't getting completely out of Afghanistan and are already in Africa with Africom Command expanding. We are at endless war and occupation of one kind or another with drone strikes and CIA interference. I'm not hopeful for much change with either of them.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:17 PM

26. Don't know if any DOD could do any one of those things, but I'm thinking he won't be beating

the ramp up the war drums.

Agree about Brennan. And I think those Bush people think that "what they don't know won't hurt them" is a good rule to live by.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:29 AM

6. He's a Republican who voted for both of Bush's wars. Aside from his anti gay crusade and active

discrimination against gay people and his anti choice views, his vote in favor of the Iraq War is not a strong recommendation for this particular job. He bought the fake 'intelligence' and muttered some qualms and then voted YES, let us Shock and let us awe, let us bomb a nation that did not attack us.
The concept that Hagel is anti war is not supported by his actual votes in the Senate. And I find it amazing that so many on DU whose opposition to Hillary Clinton was centered on her Iraq War vote being a disqualification, she was called a war monger here many times often by the same people who are now claiming Hagel is a man of peace although he cast the same Yes vote on the Iraq War that she did.
If people like Hagel and other Republicans, they should just say so. Claiming that he is a dove, or that his history proves he will cut military spending that others would not simply looks silly and often hypocritical. Many DUers who castigated Democrats for that vote are now claiming that vote makes Hagel a hero. Search function is an eyeopener in that regard.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:46 AM

11. This is my concern that he'll go along with the crowd, his willingness to stand apart when peer...

...pressure is applied is my thing

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:29 AM

7. You know what MY reason for not liking him is?

ES & S.... He was the poster boy for election fraud.

Is all supposed to be forgiven, now? Is he the best choice for Defense? No, and NO!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:34 AM

8. Sorry, Kentuck...

 

...the real reason is Hagel's angering the Israel lobby, the kiss of death for any politician.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:44 AM

9. He said some stupid shit!

He also was in Vietnam during a time when it really was okay to toss around any and all gay slurs. It starts growing up and went through the military and after.

You would be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't re-evaluated their views on many issues.

Hagel was cloistered in the Republican white boys club and perhaps never got to meet everyday people like the rest of us.

He had his 'Come to Jesus' moment and he'll be fine as SecDef.

End the 'Stan and cut the defense budget. Use half the savings on veterans jobs and care. That's what I want.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:57 AM

14. So the fact that he voted Yes on invading Iraq is a positive thing to you?

And the hateful and ignorant bigotry he spoke was not during Vietnam, it was in 1998. The year after Ellen came out on a network TV show. Most of America was embracing an inclusive view of the world when Chuck was out there spewing like the prejudiced Republican fool he is.
The fact that so many years passed after his venomous screeds without any hint of Hagel 're-evaluating' his views and the fact that he only thought to apologize when his nomination was rumored suggest that he really did not have that change you claim he had. There are no words much less any actions from Hagel that suggest he had any remorse for his hate speech until he saw it would draw heat upon his nomination.
Hagel voted for every war he was ever asked to vote for. He has zero history as an opponent to war itself. Zero. It is odd that his supporters feel they can just say 'he's a dove' and sell that to people who watched his tenure in the Senate for 12 years. He voted for the stupidest, most immoral war this nation ever launched. That is the simple fact.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:52 AM

13. That's not the reason I oppose him.

 

I oppose him because he's yet another spit in the face to the LGBT community that supported Obama.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:03 PM

17. Chuck Hagel is going to cut the military budget?

Pass that over, it must be good stuff.

There's opposition to Hagel's appointment because Republicans want Kerry in that spot, so they can potentially gain that seat in the Senate.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:01 PM

25. Prediction: DOD budget will not be a penny smaller the day he resigns

and Reducing thr DOD budget kill not be blamed on Hagel, they will land on Obama and no one else.

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