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Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:06 AM

“The telephone network is obsolete”: Get ready for the all-IP telco (AY&T wants to screw YOU)

<snip>
When everything is IP, the telecom industries and IT industries will basically become one and the same, Berninger said. It'll be important to make the transition while preserving what's good about traditional phone networks, such as reliability and 911 services, he noted. In doing so, companies like AT&T will shed lots of complexity and potentially save a ton of money. AT&T's network services and content delivery would all be delivered using the same technology.

Obviously, an all-IP network lacks any traditional circuit switching. "If you take a central office, pull out all the TDM (time-division multiplexing) equipment, and put in all IP equipment, guess what happens? The central office disappears," Berninger said. "The first thing the telcos get is a whole lot of free real estate. … It's going to be a really great thing for AT&T. BT made a lot of money when they switched over to IP."

The switch to all-IP telcos will be far more complex than the switch to all-digital television, Hultquist said. "TV was one service. Phone companies like AT&T have thousands of services based on this legacy technology," he said. Why thousands? Hultquist notes that when you order traditional phone service, you choose from "a dizzying array of diff combinations of features: With voicemail, with caller ID, without caller ID, with various kinds of dialing capabilities."

Each different combination represents a service, or USOC (Universal Service Ordering Code), in the phone companies' parlance. Merging all of these into fewer IP services will help make service providers more efficient.
<snip>


http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/the-telephone-network-is-obsolete-get-ready-for-the-all-ip-telco/


When the power goes out so does your phone service. THOUSANDS of skilled jobs will go poof, and even though the long-term cost of doing business will drop dramatically for thr Telcos, your phone bill wont.


Try connecting an IP line to a fire or burglar line!!!!! I KNOW it's not reliable.

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Reply “The telephone network is obsolete”: Get ready for the all-IP telco (AY&T wants to screw YOU) (Original post)
DainBramaged Jan 2013 OP
jsr Jan 2013 #1
Speck Tater Jan 2013 #2
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #3
undergroundpanther Jan 2013 #5
Kooljas Jan 2013 #19
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #21
FarCenter Jan 2013 #26
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #52
FarCenter Jan 2013 #55
undergroundpanther Jan 2013 #4
KoKo Jan 2013 #11
demwing Jan 2013 #29
Politicub Jan 2013 #41
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #59
Skidmore Jan 2013 #45
JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #6
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #7
RomneyLies Jan 2013 #8
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #9
stevenleser Jan 2013 #15
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #22
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #48
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #61
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #64
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #53
FarCenter Jan 2013 #84
jeff47 Jan 2013 #10
KoKo Jan 2013 #12
jeff47 Jan 2013 #23
KoKo Jan 2013 #35
Autumn Colors Jan 2013 #39
jeff47 Jan 2013 #43
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #85
jeff47 Jan 2013 #86
RKP5637 Jan 2013 #60
DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #25
hogwyld Jan 2013 #16
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #20
jeff47 Jan 2013 #24
think Jan 2013 #30
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #32
think Jan 2013 #33
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #42
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #31
jeff47 Jan 2013 #44
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #46
Dyedinthewoolliberal Jan 2013 #56
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #62
Dyedinthewoolliberal Jan 2013 #87
jeff47 Jan 2013 #57
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #63
jeff47 Jan 2013 #79
hogwyld Jan 2013 #34
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #40
snooper2 Jan 2013 #13
KoKo Jan 2013 #14
snooper2 Jan 2013 #18
IDemo Jan 2013 #36
snooper2 Jan 2013 #38
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #54
Drew Richards Jan 2013 #50
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2013 #82
KoKo Jan 2013 #17
liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #27
Not Me Jan 2013 #28
RobinA Jan 2013 #37
Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #47
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #49
KoKo Jan 2013 #75
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #51
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #66
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #80
Xithras Jan 2013 #58
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #65
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #70
Xithras Jan 2013 #73
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #67
DainBramaged Jan 2013 #68
Trillo Jan 2013 #69
dembotoz Jan 2013 #71
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #72
KoKo Jan 2013 #74
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #76
KoKo Jan 2013 #78
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #81
southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #77
REP Jan 2013 #83

Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:20 AM

1. This is a must read.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:31 AM

2. More eggs in one basket. More fragile system overall.

 

Now a local failure will be able to bring down the whole phone system nationwide! And not just the phones, but TV and Internet too! All at the mercy of hackers or earthquakes or sunspots. What a wonderful world we live in, where our complex systems become more brittle and more vulnerable to failure with every passing year. We are so lucky to live at a time when we can actually witness the collapse of a global civilization. What a show this is going to be!

Of course with the phone and Internet and TV all blacked out there won't be much to watch except what you can see from your own living room window.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:36 AM

3. During the two weeks we were without power from Sandy

ALL we had was a battery powered radio, and batteries became impossible to find after the first few days when we realized the power was out for a long time. Cell phone towers were down so cell phones were useless. If you HAD a Verizon copper line, you could call and talk to people or get news.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:59 AM

5. I have a copper line

I feel it is necessary.Considering my health issues.

Secondly remember when 9 states lost power? what if during that time someone had a heart attack,a fire or accident..

What would happen if a bad even happened during the power outage? How would we know what was happening, how would we get help,we would be unable to know what was happening . Not knowing why we had to go with police or natl.guard,what about family members etc.

yeah we will be screwed alright.

If communication is cut off along with power, and bad things happen,we will be vulnerable indeed.

It's time to stand up to corporations,and stop feeding them.3 days of not shopping after 911 was enough to get lazy asshole bush to tell us to feed the rich. I wish people were united enough to buy nothing like that for a week.These corporations would realize how dependant upon US they are.
They'd back pedal that shit in DAYS. No republicans to manipulate the law and our easily manipulated president.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:26 AM

19. How long was your power out?

 

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Response to Kooljas (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:16 AM

21. 14 days

it sucked. In the modern era, when you live in an apartment, you're screwed. Red Cross didn't come till the 11th day. They wouldn't let people build fires or have grills on their decks for cooking or heat.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:47 AM

26. During Sandy, FIOS was down by Verizon wireless stayed up

Verizon wireless has a motor-generator installed at the cell site. AT&T went down, but they hauled in a mobile moter-generator and came back up.

FiOS was down only because the power was out. It stayed up for the 8 hours until the batteries drained, per specification. As soon as power was restored, FiOS was back on.

Can't say about wireline, but if anyone is being served via the 2.5 inch diameter, lead-sheathed, paper insulated, twisted pair cable that weighs down the poles nearby, they probably didn't do very well.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:55 PM

52. FIOS should also

unless the power at your home has been out for several hours. By then the battery backup for the ONT (Optical Network Terminal - the box on the side of your house) is drained.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:04 PM

55. FiOS stayed up for 8 hours on the battery, but we were without power for over a week.

The whole town was out, and the local substation not energized by the power company.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:47 AM

4. If the Analog TV channels weren't done away with..

We wouldn't been sold another line of crap about cable,we got sold on cable because it was at first,"commercial free".You paid because it was commecial free,and it was, for a while.. Now it's full of commercials like the OLD analog channels were except we pay for it now, same for direct TV etc. Thus we are conditioned to PAY for what was once free or better quality that had degraded to crap. .Same thing with the telcos ohh the new service will be soooooo much better, It's a raw deal for us money for the assholes.I guess they'll refund power outs but gradually we will not be refunded and it will be crappy and people will forget how it was Before...How many times are we gonna be duped.

Hmmm people pay over a buck for tap water in plastic bottles, as if it's better than what comes out of the tap already...,go figure.

Marketing is a bane upon the earth.Fuck you Bernays.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:52 AM

11. +1 !

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:00 PM

29. I pay 30 cents a gallon for drinking water

definitely tastes better than the crap that comes outta my tap...

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:14 PM

41. OTA digital tv is great!

We cut the cable cord and haven't looked back. Our bill kept creeping up and we decided we have had enough.

We supplement ota with hulu, Netflix and amazon prime and have more content than we could ever watch. Atlanta has a lot of channels that air older tv shows and movies, and it has been fun discovering what's out there. The resolution and fidelity of the picture for hd OTA programming will knock your socks off.

I do miss a couple of cable channels, but the trade off is going to save about $1,400/year.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:13 PM

59. That's what we do too. We get about 27 OTA digital channels here. Then, we

use ROKU for internet TV, with hulu, Netflix and amazon prime,etc. Just for the very very basic was going to something like $90/month. Who needs that when one can watch all the same commercials for free! LOL And the OTA picture is way better than cable.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 03:01 PM

45. Yes. DISH dropped our local ABC affiliate two days before a significant winter storm

just about 1 month ago. It used to be a station we could get free over the air but we are in an area where the signal for the digital channel does not pick up on the newer teevee. It is the channel that best serves our area. We will be switching carriers shortly to our local coop so we can get a channel that is important to our area.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:09 AM

6. Down thread

Someone wrote : It's time to stand up to Corporations.

No - It's time to stand up to Wall Street.

Telecomms are publicly traded. Much of this "innovation" is being driven by Wall Street bullying the companies away from true innovation and towards more and more elaborate billing schemes. It also drives us towards a lean management (read as few employees as possible, move jobs to low education areas, etc etc). If you move jobs from NJ (high cost of living) to Oklahoma you cut salaries in half. Wall Street is happy with those changes.

Once you build the network - Wall Street says - Now how can you BILL it more effectively?

And it's not just AT and T.

You have another problem here - and it is the wireless phone subsidies. I truly believe if we dropped the phone subsidies we could drop our prices and still keep Wall Street happy. But the American consumer is going to have to change their habits. That means - dont buy a phone until the old one has truly died. Demand that your cell phone service billing works the same as your copper service did in 1997. IE - I will buy my phone from Radio Shack and pay month to month and that's the only way I will use the service.

It's impossible (in my world) to talk copper, IP, or wireless without discussing how all three have come together to change the landscape. So just ONE can't change - they all have to.

And I have the same thought today as I did in 1997 - backbone and technology are what they are. Everything else is just an elaborate billing scheme. Look up Global Crossing to see just how elaborate the billing schemes can get - even at the B2B level.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:15 AM

7. fuck those pricks. i knew they'd pull this. how we're herded into their approved corrals.

 

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:31 AM

8. It's already all IP on the back end

 

What this comes down to is the telcos are either forced to maintain the old an obsolete PSTN switching technology at the LEC level or they spend that money on newer equipment with better technologies. It won't kill jobs, it will change the skill sets required in the jobs. Also, the ancient and obsolete copper cabling will end up being replaced with the faster and more efficient fiber.

Considering this to be a and thing is fairly Luddite thinking.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:59 AM

9. Luddite thinking.

Really?


These folks would disagree, and most of them have very very high skill sets



http://www.cwa-union.org/



Luddite thinking.


They told us digital TV would be great too. Where I live, I have to PAY fucking Cablevision $17 a month to watch broadcast basic. That was a great leap forward........

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:12 AM

15. I can't speak to the rest, but the system IS already all IP on the back end. That much I know. nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:38 AM

22. Can you link to what they say?

Nothing about it on that front page; a search for "ip network" gets 0 results. "public switched telephone network" gets one press release from 1998: http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/merged_mciworldcom_would_dominate_the_internet_and_stifle_telephone_competi#.UOxLG8W0cfw ; PSTN gets 0 results.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:32 PM

48. This is about eliminating THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of jobs

my link was a reference for those who don't understand the CWA stands to lose big time if they switch to IP.


No more phone lines means no more technicians.



Hope you are well

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:41 PM

61. I am well, thank you

However, I can't actually see anything there by the CWA about a switch to an IP network.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:16 PM

64. I have a feeling the website is a little behind the news....

be well.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:00 PM

53. As one who just retired from the business copper will be around for a long time.

Verizon backed away from doing addition Fiber to the Premise because Wall Street was kicking their stock's ass.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:38 PM

84. Fiber, cable and wire to the permises is too expensive; will be fiber to the neighborhood + wireless

At least for most single-family or lower density MDUs.

High density residential and office will be fiber to the building and ethernet cabling + wifi access points.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:40 AM

10. You know, the people who wrote this should have bothered to find out what all IP is actually like

My home phone is an IP-based phone.

There's no massive complexity from voicemail, call forwarding or other features.

It works extremely reliably.

Power outages aren't a problem - I plugged the VOIP box into a UPS.

In the hurricanes I've been through in NC, both power and POTS failed and power came back first - "telephone poles" are actually power poles, and the telco can't fix their lines until the power company is done. So it's not like POTS has magic anti-hurricane powers.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:03 AM

12. Could you explain...


"Power outages aren't a problem - I plugged the VOIP box into a UPS. "

For those of us who aren't up on the acronyms... how does that work?

Also where I am we have underground power lines and so while we lost power during our last hurricane it was the underground transformer which went out not the buried phone line. So we had phone but no power for 10 days until they got around to digging up the failed transformer.

What you say (that I couldn't understand might be valuable for those who have above ground to use their phone) so could you say it in simple language in case I'm ever in a place that I need to "plug the VOIP box into a UPS."

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Response to KoKo (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:43 AM

23. Sure

VOIP means "voice over IP". It's the common acronym for IP-based telephones. IP is "Internet Protocol", the 'language' that the computers speak over the Internet.

UPS is "uninterruptable power supply". A fancy way to say "battery back-up" - a box that has a large battery to power devices if wall power goes down.

Currently, to make VOIP work you plug a conventional telephone into a box. That box plugs into your Internet service and routes your phone calls over the Internet. If that box, and the other boxes that make your Internet work, don't have power then you can't make phone calls.

POTS (plain old telephone service) doesn't have this problem because the telephone is powered by the phone company, and they have huge UPSes at their office to keep the phones working if power goes out.

What the telephone companies are proposing is to put a VOIP box on the outside of people's houses, converting their old-fashioned telephone service into VOIP service. So instead of me plugging my phone into a box, I plug the phone into the wall but it acts as if I have a VOIP phone.

Also where I am we have underground power lines and so while we lost power during our last hurricane it was the underground transformer which went out not the buried phone line. So we had phone but no power for 10 days until they got around to digging up the failed transformer.

It will depend on where exactly you live. The vast majority of the country relies on above-ground power and the telco runs their phone lines on the same poles. If you live in a dense enough city that has sufficient money to underground their utilities, then you may end up with power and phone separated as in your location.

So for most people a storm taking out the "telephone poles" take out both phone and power. Since they are the power company's poles, the power company has to fix them before the telco can fix their wires, leading to power coming back before phone. But that's kind of a moot comparison - For the vast majority, Internet service is running over those same phone lines or the cable lines on the same poles. My "emergency" phone is a cell phone, since that doesn't have to rely on wires.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:27 PM

35. Thanks jeff47.

for explaining the tech speak.

And...yes, I live in a city that upgraded to underground and split the lines between phone & cable...so I'm fortunate that way. Amazing that when the underground transformer went down we had to wait longer for our power to be restored because all the above ground lines in our county had first priority for power restore. They couldn't spare the manpower to dig the hole until all else was restored. So...there wasn't an advantage except that we had our phone line.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:29 PM

39. Cellphone isn't much use if storm knocks down cell towers

Here in CT during the freak late Oct. snowstorm in 2011, we were without power, cable, phone for 9 days and for some of the time, we also had no cellphone signal because a huge number of cellphone towers in the area sustained damage. We would charge the phones with a car charger, but would have to drive about 10 minutes to get a cell signal. That wasn't too easy either, as many trees were down all over the place.

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Response to Autumn Colors (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:52 PM

43. There really isn't perfect "emergency" communication

But generally a cell will work sooner, since the phone company can restore a lot of people's service by repairing one tower instead of restoring a few people's service by fixing one down wire.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:45 PM

85. I am in Fl

and our land line has always worked after a bad storm or hurricane but cell phones were not reliable though texting did work on some. I think they have a generator at the tower but when that runs out nothing. We were without power for a couple of weeks after the last big hurricane here though we did have a generator to keep the fridge and freezer cold and to charge things up. Storms are the only reason I maintain the land line. Has not failed me yet. We had people all over the neighborhood coming to use our land line after Charley.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #85)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:51 AM

86. Actually, the problem you're describing is when the tower is overwhelmed with demand

Voice calls take a lot more to put through the tower than text messages.

Text messages only need to use the tower for a few milliseconds - the phone will keep trying and when it eeks a little bandwidth from the tower your message goes through. But a phone call requires much more bandwidth and coordination from the tower.

And again, if you happen to live somewhere where they've undergrounded the utilities, the separation of phone and power can yield what you're talking about. But the vast majority of us still get phone off of power poles.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:22 PM

60. Yep, similar set up here. I used the router and a VOIP OBI110 on a large APC UPS. Then I use

Callcentric as my service. Also, Callcentric provides the 911 link. It all works incredibly well. And my phone bill is dirt cheap. Cell phones here are spotty, so for us VOIP with good wireless phones (Panasonic) is the way to go.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:46 AM

25. Edited to say, "what he said, above"

n/t

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:19 AM

16. I recently switched my phone over to ooma

Call quality is great, and the only thing I pay for is for 911, and taxes, which comes out to 3.70 a month. I have FiOS with battery backup. I'll save close to $65.00 a month by switching with MORE features.

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Response to hogwyld (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:13 AM

20. You didn't bother to read any of my comments did you?

What do you do if you're in your 70's on SS and can't afford a cell phone or cable yet when the power or cable goes out and there is an emergency, how do you call for help?


As long as YOU save money, the world is peachy keen fine.......................

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:45 AM

24. In your scenario,

you can still pick up a plain-old telephone plugged into the wall and call 911.

All phone lines in the US, whether or not you are paying for phone service, can call 911. That's what the 911 tax on your phone bill pays for.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:07 PM

30. Wow. TY for this information. I feel like I should have known this

but it's never been brought to my attention or I completely missed this when it was explained to me somewhere in life.

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Response to think (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:10 PM

32. When the phone lines are dead who ya gonna call

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:14 PM

33. Sorry. I was just referring to what exists currently and in no way

was trying to make this about the changes you allude to.

Perhaps I was making a statement more about the lack of information in regards to a service I feel I should have understood better and should have been made aware of by the very greedy companies you are now discussing. It was in no way meant to have any bearing on the larger discussion in the thread and for that I do apologize for straying.

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Response to think (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:15 PM

42. I was just being silly....

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:08 PM

31. FYI

during Sanday, the people in my complex who HAVE Cablevision and fell for the phone package discount, couldn't call 911, which is why I speak from fact.


When the power is out for a wide area, say 10 counties, all you got is smoke signals......


Thanks for your input.........

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:56 PM

44. And if they had plugged their phone into a POTS line, they still could have called 911.

It's not like the phone company rolls up the wires if you go with cable telephone.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:28 PM

46. (SIGH) Guess what where I live THERE ARE NO FUCKING JACKS IN THE WALLS

They've been removed, plated, or never installed in the first place when the sheet rock was replaced for various reasons.


Jesus Christ you just don't want to face reality. Have a nice perfect day.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:09 PM

56. wow bra, kinda harsh eh?

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:10 PM

62. No kinda harsh is a lot worse. I get tired of people thinking their solution

works for everyone.



And I'm not a bra, bro, or bras

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #62)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:18 PM

87. Is it possible the statement was merely general in fashion

and was taken personally? This (email essentially) the worst way to comunicate. There is no tone of voice, facial expression, physical posture accompanying the written word so posts can be easily misconstrued.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:10 PM

57. So whine at your builder, not your phone provider

Not your phone company's fault your builder is a moron. Plus there's still a jack on the outside of the house where the phone service plugs into the house.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #57)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:14 PM

63. Oh Jesus Christ if you had READ MY POSTS I LIVE IN AN APARTMENT, 50 years old

640 units, there are no jacks outside, inside, even the office has an IP phone because the 24 pair bundles to the apartment buildings became useless decades ago and can't be effectively replaced



YOU ARE clueless about the real world


go bother someone else. I am tired of your prattling

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:27 PM

79. Because 100-year-old technology would not be included in 50 year old buildings.

Makes perfect sense. It's not like the telephone was a common piece of technology in the 1960s.

And, guess what! Apartment buildings still have builders! I know, shocking! The drywall doesn't magically appear on the walls!! Who knew?

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:21 PM

34. If you can afford a hard line

you can definitely afford a pre-paid cell phone. While I was unemployed, I used this exclusively for about $10 bucks a month. And yes, I do save money to spend as I wish, and not contibute to the Frontier board of directors golden parachutes.

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Response to hogwyld (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:14 PM

40. Do you really think the elderly can remember to keep a phone charged and then

monitor minutes wile trying to see the numbers on a tiny pre-paid cell phone?


What's good for YOU isn't good for most of America. I'm partially blind, I need the screen at 150% magnification to rad it. I have used a magnifying glas......


fuck it


Have a great life.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:04 AM

13. VoIP and SS7 Engineer here, ask my anything, this article was written by a fucking idiot



Ever hear what an ATA is?

We have these really cool things call battery backup for premise devices as well- Just plug your POE switch into one-

Oh, and as far as jobs. Yes, if you only know how to work on a DMS100/250 you probably should expand your horizons. Also, we are looking for a few good engineers so let me know if you are looking

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:09 AM

14. U.S. Internet Users Pay More for Slower Service

U.S. Internet Users Pay More for Slower Service

U.S. Internet Users Pay More for Slower Service
By Susan Crawford Dec 27, 2012 6:30 PM ET


In 2004, the Lafayette utilities system decided to provide a fiber-to-the-home service. The new network, called LUS Fiber, would give everyone in Lafayette a very fast Internet connection, enabling them to lower their electricity costs by monitoring and adjusting their usage.

Push-back from the local telephone company, BellSouth Corp., and the local cable company, Cox Communications Inc., was immediate. They tried to get laws passed to stop the network, sued the city, even forced the town to hold a referendum on the project -- in which the people voted 62 percent in favor. Finally, in February 2007, after five civil lawsuits, the Louisiana Supreme Court voted, 7-0, to allow the network.

From 2007 to mid-2011, people living in Lafayette saved $5.7 million on telecommunications services.

Since Lafayette went down this path, other communities have followed. According to the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, a group that advocates for municipal fiber networks, these community-owned networks are generally faster, more reliable and cheaper than those of the private carriers, and provide better customer service.
City Fiber

It’s not free. Fiber connection costs $1,200 to $2,000 a house. It can take two to three years for revenue from any given customer to offset the upfront investment. But then the fiber lasts for decades. Municipal networks are seeing more than half of households adopt the service. And scores of communities are discovering that the networks bring new jobs.

MORE AND an EXCELLENT READ HERE AT THIS SITE:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/u-s-internet-users-pay-more-for-slower-service.html

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Response to KoKo (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:23 AM

18. This thread was about carriers switching to VoIP, but that is a good read as well..

Ultimately the city of Lafayette has to connect to a carrier so how the last mile is handled is immaterial to me. However we get high speed internet to all homes, and save consumer costs is all good in my book.

Last time I checked Lafayette isn't registered as an interconnected VoIP network provider by the FCC so the services you layer on top of said Internet access is another discussion.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:28 PM

36. Steppers forever!



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Response to IDemo (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:45 PM

38. LOL, everyone gets channel banks and key systems...

oh, and we need to go back to standalone CSU/DSU!

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Response to IDemo (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:01 PM

54. That's got to be a museum piece

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:44 PM

50. Hehehe I started with the old 1010's and DMS100's

I became a Cisco Engineer after the Telco training...because of the money...

I now am the provisioner for Asterisk and Enswitch (Thats a pure virtual digital enterprise level ss7 telco switch for the laymen...) for a Wireless ISP in Md...

Yep yep you gotta keep learning or fall by the wayside.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:31 PM

82. When we got a letter from our telco stating...

They were unable to continue our Centrex service in our new location, I swear I started moonwalking.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:21 AM

17. DB...some personal experience with "Bundling of Service" ATT/UVERSE ,COMCAST, Time-Warner

Thanks for your article...it goes along with experience over holidays.

We have friends in FLA who switched to ATT/UVERSE for phone, TV/Internet. Over Thanksgiving all of it went down and it took days to get their service back.

We were visiting relatives over Christmas and they have Time-Warner bundled. Christmas Eve all the service went down and and Time-Warner said it was their Modem which would have to be replaced but they couldn't get anyone to come out for four days or more because of the holiday. Fortunately the DVD player worked so we had some entertainment and there was always music to listen to.

New Years we had relatives visit us and they had just spent almost two weeks in FLA trying to get COMCAST to fix their bundled service. One of them lost important information on their Cell Phone with the outage, the other has an I-Phone which was backed up into the cloud...but they were without TV/Internet and were only able to use outside wireless connections available for phone, since they had given up their Land Line. Comcast told them there is a faulty switch or something underground and they just don't have the manpower to dig it up at the present time. This is in Boca Raton, FLA...not some rural area!

This is personal experience just in the last three months with friends and relatives.

We still have our ATT Land Line (costs us a fortune) and Time-Warner Basic, a ROKU BOX and Earthlink for Internet. We are thinking we are lucky....for now, at least. And, yes, I know that ATT is Earthlink's provider for our DSL. Just not ready to "combine" it all under one powerful crap company.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:54 AM

27. my husband worked in the telcom business

He is a big supporter of breaking up the phone companies.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:59 AM

28. The problem that the phone companies face

is that they have to compete with IP-based competitors who can undersell them any day of the week.
So to stay competitive (price and features) the telcos jumped--albeit reluctantly--into IP. But were also saddled with the POTS (Plain old telephone service) copper system. The cost of running both is getting to them.

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Response to Not Me (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:44 PM

37. During Sandy

our copper POTS was the only thing that worked for four days. Don't know where it comes from, because the tree that took out the electric was up the road in one direction and the tree(s) that took out almost everybody else's electric was up the road in the other direction, but however, we did have landline phone. Cell service is a joke in our spot on a clear day in June, so I won't be staking, well...anything, on that. They can have my copper landline when they pry it out of my cold dead hands. I come from a long line of Bell Telephone men.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:29 PM

47. Some people aren't terrified of new technologies. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:37 PM

49. But many people HATE Unions and will use any excuse to bust them down

FYI we have an all IP phone system where I work. And EVERY time Cablevision or the power goes down, we lose phone service. And that's at LEAST once every two weeks.

After Having had 2 FULL T1's here for 25 years and never a dropped call, this system sucks. Technology they said. We went from 48 lines to 18. Technology they said. Our customers get busy signals ALL the time. Technology you say. We handle a couple of thousand in/out calls a day, and the fights for open lines have become personal.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:06 PM

75. Some in the population definitely have problems with it...Should they be Abandoned?

The Poor, Elderly, those who live alone without help with tech people they can afford to guide them through it...or the young who are more adept?

Should we abandon them?

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:50 PM

51. A lot of that is already here.

If you have a 4G phone or telephone service with a cable TV company you're already on an IP network

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:30 PM

66. I don't, and MILLIONS don't. At home.

Why won't you folks read the entire article instead of focusing on the IP part of it? Or is corporate scheming OK with you?

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:45 PM

80. Corporate scheming? Paranoid much?

I was trying to explain how the technology works.

FWIW I'm a retired craftperson ie union. 35 years in the business. Please refrain from personal attacks.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:13 PM

58. Err...many of us already have IP telephones from AT&T. Mine was installed by a union installer

The only difference is that I now have a slightly larger box mounted to the outside of my house where the old telco box used to be, and I have a battery backup box inside my house that has to be replaced once every few years (to keep the system running during a power failure). I didn't have to change the handset, the phone number, or anything else. AT&T has been selling UVerse Voice for years now, and few people have had any real problems with it (unless you have an old fashioned alarm box, in which case you need to upgrade that old thing to a newer Internet based model anyway).

Nostalgia is no reason to stick with an old technology. IP phones work fine, and they still require real people to maintain the boxes, wires, and equipment. If it requires less people, it's simply because the newer hardware is more reliable and efficient, so it doesn't need as many hands to keep it operating.

The real threat to the telco unions isn't VoIP, it's cellphones. I can't name one person under 30 who actually has a landline in their house. I'm over 30, but even my landline isn't used for incoming calls anymore...it's primarily just for visitors to use and for outgoing calls. The incoming number routes through Google voice, so if anyone calls my home, it rings my cellphone and my wifes cellphone simultaneously instead. As neat as the technology is, I only maintain it AT ALL because I'm still transitioning people to my Google voice number. Once I get everyone transitioned to the new number, I'll probably just shut it off completely and save the $20 a month.

If you look at the telco numbers, they clearly show that they're hemmoraging landline customers at the younger end of the market. Most younger people today buy landline services for data, not voice, and there's nothing to indicate that the trends will shift anytime soon.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:24 PM

65. No UVerse in NJ, AT&T pulled out of the market, Verizon is shrinking FIOS instead of expanding

Most people I know have cellphones except my very senior sister who has a land line that worked during Sandy when those around her had no phone service. A battery back up isn't good for 14 days, I think 72 is maximum if I'm not mistaken (I could be).


We HAD a 'modern' IP based burglar/fire alarm system where we are. When Cable went down (as it does often) or the power goes out) which it does often neither work.


We installed four Verizon pots lines for the two systems, one prime and one backup for each.



There are HUGE swaths of this country where cable and VOIP will never be, which begs the question, what do those people do, resort to tomato cans and string? THREE MILES UP THE ROAD, they have satellite and DSL. Thats all they will ever get. The population is too sparse, the area too large to expand Cable or FIOS fiber.


It's amazing how the participants in this thread think what AT&T is doing is a good thing.

Jesus I must be on the wrong message board.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:49 PM

70. I see a lot of the same thing you do, everyone assumes what works for them is universally applicable

It's part of our pattern seeking behavior, we try to fit the pattern we already know to a different situation.

See my thread on the invisible gorilla, it's all part of human behavior, to a big extent we can't help it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022151158

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:45 PM

73. You seem to be equating "not everywhere yet" with "not everywhere ever"

The FCC approved a plan a couple of years ago to phase out the Universal Service Fund, which currently subsidizes telephone service to rural areas, and shift its funds into the new Connect America Fund. That funding transition won't be completed until 2018. When it's finished, that fund will be spending $4.5 billion a year to do exactly what you seem to think will "never" happen. It's goal is to make broadband service available to every house in America, no matter how far flung or rural. If it gets a phone signal now, it will get a VoIP signal in a few years. You just need a bit of patience.

A global switch from our century old analog-over-copper voice system to a modern packet-switched system IS a good thing. The fact that AT&T is doing it is irrelevant. By definition, any I.P. network can carry ANY type of I.P. traffic, so customers on a VoIP only network will potentially have the ability to connect to ANY type of communication device, either currently existing or coming in the future. Switched networks can also pipe more users over fewer wires, increasing network reliability.

It's true that there are tradeoffs with every technology change, and the battery thing is certainly one of them with VoIP. For most people, it's a tiny price to pay.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:32 PM

67. This is essentially correct, but take it further. Telephony, television, advertising,

 

publishing, and the rest of the entertainment industry, in short, all human communication that isn't face to face is going to be this one field. That is why they set about devaluing the skills required to make it all work so quickly.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:34 PM

68. Fuck it, you win.

I don't give a fuck. You want to make this out to be a good thing, you folks can talk to yourselves. You win. AT&T is a good corporation, looking out for the little guy, just like the Republican party. Reducing the Union presence, just fine on DU.


Have a great life.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 06:36 PM

69. Privacy

Supposedly the telephone networks are accompanied by, what I've read, are strong privacy protections, and penalties for eavesdropping.

A different aspect of privacy is the user-revokable right of marketers to invade your privacy. Back in the 1980s, it was common for marketers to call right around dinnertime, what seemed a lot like every &^%$ing day.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:19 PM

71. if voip is so wonderful then why are they against code for lines that can not go down

alarm lines
elevator lines

due to the exteranal power source

both dsl and coax cable internet are best effort products
no sla's never will. Best effort generally means they will fix it when they get around to it.


try to go into a building and provision an elevator line or an alarm line with voip or cell.
You will get laughed at.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:35 PM

72. I have a Sat Dish for TV, Another Dish for Internet so now I will get a Sat Phone for the house

 

problem solved

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:05 PM

74. You really think that will work? How so?

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Response to KoKo (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:15 PM

76. Because it works now

 

I have a generator if I lose power both my Sat Dishes continue to work, Sat Phones are now available to the public, so I will just have 3 Sat Dishes, no biggie.

Where I live now the phone and cable are in the same box on the street, power goes out I would lose both that is why my neighbors lose everything when the power goes out and I do not.

The receivers only need power, 120v60hz.

With your own dish you are in effect your own service, no middle man so to speak.

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Response to stultusporcos (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:22 PM

78. Folks I know with DISH...have power outages with Rain and Storms, though.

How do you get around that with the crazy weather all over US these days, though.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:54 PM

81. I have a rectifier, power conditioner and ups in my house attached to the main power

 

that solves power issues and gives me time to xfer to the generator.

Typically I only get a temporary disruption during severe storms and that does not last long and usually only the HD signal for the TV goes but the regular channels are fine. Internet loss is about the same and it does not bother me if it goes out for a while.

Upgrading receivers and going to a 3M dish would fix that but that is a hefty chunk of dough to do and operate and I got other things I would rather buy first.

Thinking about getting some mules next.


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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:18 PM

77. We have a co-op here. I love it. We get money back every year. I also get our computer hookup

 

thru them. I have 3 land lines and one portable phone. When our electric went out our cellphones don't work because one we have a tin roof and we also are surrounded by mountains. Cells just don't work here. But our landlines do. We have Verizon for cellphones.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:38 PM

83. No news there: AT&T (the rebranded Baby Bell SWB) has been trying to screw us for years

This is just a new page in their Kama Sutra.

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