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Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:55 AM

 

Welcome to new members who, just coincidentally, use assault rifles to hunt!

Welcome, all you manly men!

Jung didn't need to see a scarab beetle to come up with theories about synchronicity. Too much craziness with that story; no one could believe it. All he had to do was witness the deluge of new pro-gun "liberal" chatboard denizens who appear with amazingly similar stories every time Delicate Flowers start worrying about losing their Precious!

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Reply Welcome to new members who, just coincidentally, use assault rifles to hunt! (Original post)
bongbong Jan 2013 OP
billh58 Jan 2013 #1
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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:57 AM

1. Allow me to be the first

to second that welcome message bongbong...

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:02 PM

2. It is doubtful that anyone is using

assault rifles to hunt in the U.S. I cannot think of a state in which it would be legal.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:04 PM

3. But it's the stuck record meme for justification of said weapon.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:06 PM

7. You are mistaken.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:28 PM

118. Judging by your first few responses on this thread...are a prime example of exactly that meme lol

n/t

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #118)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:43 PM

128. Well said sheep! nt

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:06 PM

10. It's not a "stuck record"

 

It's just coincidence! Wayne LaTerrorist says so!

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:04 PM

4. According to a couple long time DUers, it's critical for wild boar.



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Response to progressoid (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:08 PM

12. You too are mistaken.

A fully-automatic weapon is not legal to use for hunting. Not to mention it would be cost prohibitive.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:20 PM

25. Jenoch, it was sarcasm.n/t

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:57 PM

71. There was a mysterious whooshing sound awhile ago.

I wondered what it was and now I know.

It was the sarcasm zinging right over the field of Delicate Flowers.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:15 PM

154. And it's not cost prohibitive for target practice?

Just askin~

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Response to BobbyBoring (Reply #154)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:52 PM

186. I don't know anyone with an assault rifle.

They cost a LOT of money and are extremely rare. Plus the licensing and background checks are quite thoroughand then there is the part where the ATF agents can show up at any time to inspect the gun. The biggest reason I don't personally know someone who owns an assault rifle is probably because they cost thousands of dollars to purchase.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #186)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:28 PM

239. I know a couple of people with them

They were private purchase or show purchase. I know someone who is planning a purchase next month. Why next month? Tax returns.

I know plenty of people who spend their tax return on televisions,electronics, and guns. When you get 5000 back on a return it's not such a big deal to spend it on a big ticket item. In my neck of the woods it's often on weapons.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #239)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:11 PM

351. So after letting the government keep their money warm for several months,

there are people who get their nicely warmed money back, sans interest, and use it to buy assault weapons -- some of them presumably so they can fight back against a potentially "tyrannical government." Hilarious to contemplate.

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Response to klook (Reply #351)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 01:33 AM

371. Sad, isn't it?

Instead of using the money for something useful (bills or stocking up the household),or something for their kids (clothes, maybe bikes or a few toys), or even something for the family (games, an inexpensive overnight trip to the nearest city-everyone deserves to have a chance to do something fun with their family)or even save that money they choose something foolish and a bit selfish.

Every single one that I know of draw too much attention. If the wrong person hears about it they'll be robbed while at work. It's happened before around here-someone brags about their new gun and a week later there has been a break in while they were at work.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #371)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:50 PM

375. All good recommendations

for use of a tax refund. (Although my preference is to owe about $100 in taxes every year, rather than making an interest-free loan to the government.)

Wish more folks thought the way you do.

My parents' house was robbed two different times (fortunately while they weren't at home), and both times the biggest-ticket items stolen were guns. (Next, TV set & cameras.) All too common an experience, I'm sure.

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Response to klook (Reply #375)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:38 PM

381. I pay bills

Stock up on non perishables and get my kid a few new outfits. We also have a day out at the movies and a meal. The rest goes in the bank.

A coworker had his handgun stolen out of his car this morning. If they'll steal that in broad daylight in a busy parking lot you know they'll have no problem breaking into a house five miles out of town with the nearest house a quarter mile down a back road.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #239)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:43 AM

390. You can't get an assault rifle for $5000

 

They run at least $15,000 to $20,000

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #390)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:06 AM

393. but the five grand and up

Received is an excuse to spend it with more money on the weapons.

Example: a coworker is projecting eight grand in returns. He's already decided that between that and his credit cards he can afford it.

(That's true. If he hadn't realized he was getting such a big return-new baby-he never would have even thought about it. That was his actual response-they can afford it now so they can protect their kids.)

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:05 PM

6. Who cares about laws?

 

Certainly not the Mighty Warriors Of The 2nd Amendment™, who have vowed to ignore any laws passed about registering their Preciouses.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:07 PM

11. Actually, if you're referring to what is generally called

an assault rifle by the media and lawmakers, Minnesota just legalized the use of .223 ammo for deer. So the AR-15 guys can go deer hunting with their favorite firearm. Me? I use only .30-06 ammunition for deer, although I did shoot a .270 when I was in my early teens.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:11 PM

15. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle.

There are many guns chambered in .223 that are not an AR-15 or one of the clones.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:16 PM

19. Yes, yes. The definition is unclear.

That's part of the problem.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:20 PM

23. No, the definition of what

constitutes an assault rifle has never been unclear. An assault rifle is select fire, either semi-auto, full-auto, or burst fire, usually in three-round bursts.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:23 PM

28. Oh, please. That's your definition.

The definition, according to law, is different from that. Don't try to use semantics to make your point. I've been around firearms for almost 60 years. I understand nomenclature, and I also understand that legal definitions are sometimes different from individual definitions.

I won't play semantic games with you.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:38 PM

41. No semantics, just actual definitions. Words have meaning, even if not everyone is aware.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:38 PM

178. That's true. So let's talk about the word "arms."

I looked it up. It's not limited to guns. The actual definition includes everything from clubs to nuclear bombs.

Now, unless you think the second amendment guarantees my right to bazookas, land mines, or an ICBM in my backyard, this complicates things. Obviously, the right to bear some of these arms has been infringed, in the name of simple sanity.

Or I guess you could argue that there are "actual" definitions, and there are LEGAL definitions.

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Response to dorkulon (Reply #178)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:57 PM

191. I have never posted anything that

would contradict anything in your off-topic post.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:00 PM

74. Consider "assault rifle" vs "assault weapon" One is codifed (AW) the other is not. nt

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #74)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:24 PM

112. The reality is that both terms are in wide use, and indiscriminately.

Because of that, their use in arguments is a waste of time. Trying to argue definitions when the terms are so widely misused, and from both directions, is not productive in any way.

That is my only point with regard to either term. They've been misused so much that they are now meaningless.

Elsewhere in this thread, I said that I use a "sniper rifle" for hunting. Someone laughed. And yet, my deer rifle meets all of the qualifications for a sniper rifle. it would serve as well in that role as it serves in hunting deer in the open country of the Western US. In fact, it has its origins as a military rifle, being made between WWI and WWII. Many similar Springfield rifles in .30-06 caliber actually served as sniper rifles. Mine was purchased as unfired army surplus, then restocked, re-barreled, and tuned for accuracy. It has served very well as a deer rifle, mostly in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and in Wyoming, at ranges up to 400 yds. It would make a great sniper rifle.

Names are just names.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #112)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:33 PM

124. Remington 700 models were once common snioer rifles

and are among the most popular bolt-action hunting rifles in use.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #124)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:37 PM

126. Yes. So? I said as much in another subthread.

I've actually never owned a Remington rifle. I know a lot of people who do, though. I'm an old Springfield guy. Today, the Remington 770 rifles are probably the best-selling large game rifles on the planet. I just don't need one.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #126)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:52 PM

134. I wasn't trying to be

snarky. I was pointing out a sporting model that was used for military use in comparison to a military rifle converted to sporting use. My father has an old .30-40 Krag that he bought when he was 15 that was later sporterized. The 770 is the low-end model. I would not buy one, I don't like the way they are built.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #112)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:15 PM

155. Yet, Congress never fucks it up.

Amazing, that.

Search through the 1994 Comprehensive Assault Weapons Ban. The term Assault Rifle is not included, not defined, and in fact, the bill touched precisely zero weapons that could be so-defined.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:14 PM

153. Um. No.

You are mixing a political/legal term (assault weapon) with military nomenclature (assault rifle). Assault rifle, Battle rifle, these terms have precise meanings.

Assault WEAPON means whatever Congress or a state legislature define it as, and is a moveable target. And it can apply to things that are not rifles at all.

The two terms do not overlap, outside mis-use in pop culture. Pop Culture is bad at understanding military terms. This is not limited to rifles, by any means.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:18 PM

21. The "AR" in "AR-15" either stands for "Assault Rifle" or "ArmaLite Rifle," depending on which of


it's engineers you ask. But the pistol grip, detachable box magazine, semi-auto action, and intermediate cartridge are fairly good indicators that these are not weapons for game hunting.

If you're set on .223 as a hunting cartridge, there are plenty of bolt action rifles available for a fraction of the cost of the AR platform.

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:22 PM

26. The AR never stood for assault rifle.

That is ignorance and making assumptions out of ignorance.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:46 PM

182. Still not sure what your obsession with its definition is

Why does it matter so much?

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Response to rbixby (Reply #182)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:00 PM

195. This started with one post and the rest are replies.

No obsession, but the problem with vague terminology is that they result in vague laws.

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:30 PM

32. Name one.

ONE person who helped design the Stoner rifle that genuinely and in all seriousness called it an AR in reference to 'assault rifle'.

AR was the standard designation for all rifles produced by that company, including the preceding AR-10, which is NOT an 'assault rifle', it's a battle rifle. AR-3, AR-9, AR-10, AR-11, AR12, see a pattern here?

The pattern is 'ArmaLite'.


Calling BS on the pistol grip. Try laying prone with a non pistol grip rifle and shoot at something. Fun times. The pistol grip is a massive ergonomic and safety improvement for firing from the shoulder.

On the intermediate cartridge, I would agree, if deer were the only game out there. Plenty of game smaller than a deer. (.224 is the minimum caliber acceptable for use against Deer in my state.)

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

87. AR never stood for Assault Rifle by the inventer.

 

It always stood for Armilite Rifle.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:19 PM

107. Aside from the standard round and full auto, what's the difference?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:55 PM

135. I'm afraid it is. It is not the ammo used that makes it an assault rifle.

 

The AR-15 is a military knockoff, usually made with cheaper parts. It looks intimidating to us mere humans. And that is the attraction of such weapons for many people. The fact they can be used in place of a hunting rifle, does not make then hunting rifles, not even suitable for real hunting.

The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt. The select-fire AR-15 entered the US military system as the M16 rifle. Colt then marketed the Colt AR-15 as a semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle for civilian sales in 1963. Although the name "AR-15" remains a Colt registered trademark, variants of the firearm are independently made, modified and sold under various names by multiple manufacturers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15


It is the very look and feel of such weapons that are the problem because of the in-your-face, macho type of mentality that are attracted to them.

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Response to RC (Reply #135)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:44 PM

252. You're right-not just the ammo, it's the select fire capability. Which current "ARs" dont have. nt

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:18 AM

343. it sure can kill a lot of kids

which is why it is banned in Feinstein's bill.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:25 PM

113. I prefer 308

but 30-06 is good too
I use 5.56 when I shoot ground hogs I am considering
.17's I would like to see what that new .17 winchester mag
is like.

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Response to littlewolf (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:33 PM

123. It's a matter of personal choice.

In reality, I no longer hunt. When I moved to Minnesota, I decided to stop. I'm not comfortable with the hunting style here, especially on public lands. Tree stands full of hunters isn't my idea of a good or safe way to hunt. So, I've stopped.

My hunting was in California, in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and in Wyoming. Hunting involved finding a spot on one ridge just above the tree line that could see a game trail on the next ridge over. Typical ranges were between 200-300 yards. I'm not comfortable hunting in forested areas.

I never hunted small mammals, so I never had any use for a smaller caliber than .30-06. I hunted quail in California, and a 20-gauge shotgun is ideal for that activity. So, I don't have a bunch of hunting firearms at all. I'm not a big small caliber person, since I don't hunt small game. I'm more likely to feed ground hogs than shoot them.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #123)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:45 PM

130. understand grew up in MI

and used 30-30's and 12 ga w/slugs on deer ..
went shooting (paper) w/ a 308 and loved it
friends have horses and groundhogs
cause big time problems so they ask myself
and a few other friends to come and help "remove"
them.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #123)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:01 AM

340. What? You're not into the pretend to rough it go back to nature and blow

a wolf to smithereens group? Hehe. Just kidding.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:44 PM

334. A .223 for northern deer?...

Maybe on the little things they call deer in Texas, but I cannot imagine a .223 on full size deer, especially mule deer.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #334)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:11 AM

344. Yeah. I don't know what they were thinking, really.

Minnesota whitetails grow big up here.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:12 PM

16. The AR-15 and Ak platforms are used

To hunt in the US. Legally the civilian versions (semi auto) are known as assault weapons.

You got a problem with that definition, take it to the Feds.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:50 PM

133. SOME of the civilian versions are legally defined as assault weapons.

Depending on the state you live in, and secondary features. The federal law that defines the term "assault weapon" was struck from the books with the sunset clause, back in 2004.


Some (most, I think) states don't have an "assault weapon" classification for guns, merely classify them as long guns and hand guns.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:20 PM

24. it is doubtful your statement is true

In the December 31, 2012 Letters to the Editor, David Irons asked “Who hunts with assault weapons.”

Answer: In Montana semiautomatic rifles, with large capacity clips, that some would call assault rifles (AR-15 and Mini-14s), are used to hunt rabbits in the winter when their fur is white and used to make hats. Some of these hunters have been known to use full automatic rifles (M-16) that they legally own.

Also: Sheep and cattle ranchers use these rifles to hunt wolves and coyotes that prey on their livestock.

This is true in most western states where ranching is common.

PS: When I lived in Montana (1940s to the 1970s), rabbit hunters harvested several million rabbits each winter.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/01/02/2740690/letter-hunters-do-use-assault.html#storylink=cpy

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:30 PM

33. Even if it were legal,

I don't know why anyone would shpot a rabbit using fully-automatic fire. That would certainly waste a lot of ammunition.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:55 PM

68. Goalpost moving

 

Don't worry, Delicate Flowers do it all the time.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #68)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:09 PM

90. I never set any goalposts or made any claims

about the legality of hnting with assault rifles. I posted that I was unaware of where it might be legal. The comment about wasting ammo was just an observation. You really need to use hyperbole in every gun thread, don't you?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:11 PM

97. Not to mention...

 

...the usefulness of a hat that has been made from a rabbit shot with full auto is in serious doubt.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:32 PM

122. we also don't know why someone would shoot up a classroom or movie theatre

it wastes more than ammunition

but, they are legal, and people do.

perhaps less legal is the way to go?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:18 PM

105. Why does the term bother you so much?

Its kind of splitting hairs, isn't it?

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Response to rbixby (Reply #105)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:25 PM

114. A gun law, or any law, cannot be effective without

the use of accurate terms. When the inaccurate terms get repeated all the time people assume they are used correctly.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #114)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:47 PM

183. So what would you describe the AR-15 as then?

Its definitely not your average hunting rifle.

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Response to rbixby (Reply #183)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:51 PM

256. Try this:

An AR-15 is an:
'air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed, and semiautomatic shoulder firearm/weapon'.

Compared to say, an M1 Garand, which is an:
"air-cooled, gas-operated, clip-fed, and semiautomatic shoulder weapon"

Easily compared to an M-16, which is:
"gas-operated, air-cooled, magazine-fed, shoulder-fired weapons that can be
fired in either automatic, three-round bursts, or semiautomatic.



And contrasted with a very popular hunting arm, a Remington 7400, which is an:
'air cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed, and semiautomatic shoulder firearm'

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:54 PM

280. True. However an assault rifle is not a semi-automatic weapon covered under the expired

Assault Weapons ban.

Semi-automatic weapons including rifles that look similar to military weapons are legal in many states for hunting. No, you don't use a 20 round magazine to hunt deer in most states as the magazine size is usually limited to 5 rounds. However in states like Florida you can use a semi-auto rifle with a 20 or 30 round magazine to hunt feral hog. This animal is considered a pest and is not native to our nation, consequently feral pigs often do considerable damage to the environment. They are also the "second-most popular, large animal hunted in Florida (second only to the white-tailed deer." Ref: http://m.myfwc.com/hunting/by-species/wild-hog/

Assault rifle

An assault rifle is a selective fire (either fully automatic or burst-capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It should be distinguished from the US legal term assault weapons. Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle


Assault weapon

Assault weapon refers to different types of firearms, and is a term that has differing meanings and usages.

In discussions about to gun laws and gun politics in the United States, an assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. Semi-automatic firearms fire one bullet (round) each time the trigger is pulled; the spent cartridge case is ejected and another cartridge is loaded into the chamber, without the manual operation of a bolt handle, a lever, or a sliding handgrip. An assault weapon has a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug. Most assault weapons are rifles, but some are pistols or shotguns. Other legislation defines the term more broadly to mean any semi-automatic firearm with a detachable magazine, which includes the majority of all firearms. The exact definition of the term in this context is set differently by each of the various laws that limit or prohibit their manufacture, importation, sale, or possession. These laws include the now-expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban, as well as state and local laws. Whether or not assault weapons should be legally restricted more than other firearms, how they should be defined, and even whether or not the term "assault weapon" should be used at all, are questions subject to considerable debate.

In more casual usage, the term "assault weapon" is sometimes conflated with the term "assault rifle". An assault rifle is a military rifle that utilizes an intermediate-power cartridge, and that generally is capable of full-automatic fire, where multiple rounds are fired continuously when the trigger is pulled one time — that is, a machine gun — or burst capable, where a burst of several rounds is fired when the trigger is pulled one time. In the United States, full-automatic firearms are heavily restricted, and regulated by federal laws such as the National Firearms Act of 1934, as well as some state and local laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:08 AM

342. And that, my friend, is the point

Thanks for distilling it so well.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #342)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:20 PM

358. You, my friend, missed the point, by a fully-automatic mile.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:05 PM

5. Well, I use a sniper rifle for hunting, so there.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:58 PM

72. oh my!

 



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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:46 PM

307. I use a Sniper Assault Weapon so there!

My 308 is identical to the US military Mk. 11 sniper rifle; it's got a scary black pistol grip and detachable magazine so its also an Assault Weapon!

I also hunt with a Remington 700 bolt-action rifle which is also identical to the US M24 Sniper Weapon System. Yet nobody makes much fuss about that one..

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:06 PM

8. Snap

The proliferation of hunting posts has been rather surprising. Not just hunting, but hunting in order to survive some unspecified event--economic or existential--that would necessitate returning to cave culture. Never mind that only 16% of people in the United States now live in rural environments. The other 84% of us will need to arm up and find some way to transport ourselves to the fields and forests, come the apocalypse.

And, surprisingly, this sudden spate of hunting posting comes at just the moment the issue of gun control rises to the surface in our society. Who'da thunk it?

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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:10 PM

13. LOL

 

Nice graphic.

Never underestimate the ability of the NRA to focus its fear-filled Delicate Flower acolytes into a spittle-flecked frenzy of chatboard trollery.

"It's not a lie if your Precious is threatened" (to paraphrase George Constanza)

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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:18 PM

22. Since a good number of DU'ers have decided to attack ALL gun owners including hunters

it's only sensible to try and get said DU'ers to acknowledge reality.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:30 PM

31. The reality is ...

• That most Americans do not hunt, as this 2009 mainstream article details:


Hunters remain a powerful force in American society, as evidenced by the presidential candidates who routinely pay them homage, but their ranks are shrinking dramatically and wildlife agencies worry increasingly about the loss of sorely needed license-fee revenue.

New figures from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service show that the number of hunters 16 and older declined by 10 percent between 1996 and 2006 - from 14 million to about 12.5 million. The drop was most acute in New England, the Rocky Mountains, and the Pacific states, which lost 400,000 hunters in that span.

The primary reasons, experts say, are the loss of hunting land to urbanization plus a perception by many families that they can't afford the time or costs that hunting entails.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-3228893.html


• That only 16% of us live in rural areas where hunting is possible; and therefore, if "survivalism" becomes necessary, it is not possible for 300 million Americans to hunt their way to survival. Besides, bullets cost more than a tin of sardines.

I have no problem with hunters--people who hunt for sport and fun. These threads were not about that. They were about how people need to learn to hunt to survive. That's the kind of thinking that led the mother of the Newtown killer to stockpile arms. This isn't about hunting. It's about crazy apocalyptic visions that involve hunting as a survival mechanism. What would Jung have to say about that?

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Response to frazzled (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:37 PM

39. Listen, I know people who hunt to get through the winter with food on the table considering LIPA

is one of the most expensive electric utilities in the country and heating fuel is hugely expensive.

There has been a multitude of posts from DU'ers calling for the elimination of all guns and attacks on ANY gun owners on DU no matter how responsible they may be.

Far too many liberals are willingly ignorant when it comes to their fellow citizens. I'd suggest anyone on this site read "Deer Hunting for Jesus".

I've seen no one advocating gun ownership for survivalist end-times crazies.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:56 PM

70. And I know a Yeti

 

I also own several 300 foot yachts and date super-models.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:10 PM

94. And you think

A.- there is no rural poverty

B.- People do not hunt to supplement their livelihood.

It's so strange and uncommon the Bureau of Land Management issues subsistence hunting licenses. Suffice it to say, most rifles used in this pursuit are not AR-15 but rather much older riffles.

I must conclude that you live in a city, are a hipster, and really are ignorant of the deep rural poverty in this country. Use the google and enter "Appalachia and poverty" in your string. Then enter images.

After you are done educating yourself, enter "Innuit and subsistence hunting." In your hate of all weapons owners you do need an education into these shades of gray that are very real.

Oh and those two are but the two major areas where this happens. Suffice to say, most of these folks are not using the latest and meanest gun you find at five sporting goods. They are using hand me downs. Some as old as a hundred years old. Some were state of the art, when the seventh cavalry went into the little big horn...



I also recommend Deer Hunting with Jesus.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:13 PM

100. Sure there's poverty

 

But the Venn Diagram of subsistence hunters vs. the "you'll pry my gun from my cold dead hands" crowd is probably pretty sparse.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #100)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:21 PM

109. But they exist

And that is what you insist on missing.

An idiot here claimed 0.01% and did not even acknowledge these licenses are issues.

Oh and to people who own them to hunt, to put food on the table, taking them from them is a death sentence, or at the very least...chronic starvation. So they will be the ones actually justified in saying "from my cold dead hands..."

These are not the people involved on policy discussions, but we should not forget them. They truly are not on the grid in many cases, nor have time. Nor, let me repeat this, using the greatest and meanest production models, with the most gnarly of attachment. Nor would shoot just for fun. Each bullet is carefully put on target. Many of them also reload their own ammo.

Many of them also live light on the land.

And more than a few are American Native people's who also hunt as a way of preserving traditions going back tens of thousands of years and to keep connected to the land.

They are not them city slickers that want more firepower...every damn year.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #109)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:09 PM

148. and now you understand why this poster have been blocked from GC&RKBA and unleashed onto GD

for you guys to enjoy. Have fun. As you can see he is a barrel of

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #148)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:14 PM

152. LOL

 

I'm as proud of being banned by the NRA-bots in the gungeon as, well, pretty much any Liberal would be.

Or, to put it in terms that Delicate Flowers understand, I'm as happy at not having to look at gungeon dreck as Delicate Flowers are of buying multiple copies of "Rambo" because they keep wearing out the copy they already have from overuse/over masturbation to.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #152)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:18 PM

159. you just made a sexist and bigoted comment but, you know that. you are really nice addition to DU -

Enjoy the Greatest Page.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #159)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:33 PM

173. sexist and bigoted?

 

Tell me - exactly and specifically - what is "sexist and bigoted" about my comment.

I'll wait.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #148)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:40 PM

248. I happen to agree with him on quite a bit

This rural poverty issue is well hidden.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #248)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:01 PM

285. the delivery of the message is where I take issue. the content. he hates me and shows his contempt.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #285)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:30 PM

301. Yeah, but let's be brutally honest

I am all but "radical" in my gun control views. I won't go to the RKBA area of DU. In fact, the whole forum is trashed. It has to do with the hard cases there..this is not contemt, reality.

And I say this as a gun owner.

Some of the things I am in favor off, 100% background checks and a gun registry, will affect me as well. So be it. We need national measures and resistance and obstinance will only lead to laws folks will not like.

There is plenty of contempt there. I know where I am NOT WANTED...hence the whole board is in te trash.

And while I have put on ignore a few of our resident gun nuts as fringe, I have done the same with the lets ban all guns fringe group as well.

The OP took a line from a cartoon, one I now have in my hard drive, and accurate as well.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #301)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:34 PM

303. I don't mind anyone posting their thoughts on the issues. There are posters on both sides of this

issue that can be rude. Seems that juries tolerate control bigotry a lot more than vice versa. YMMV.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #303)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:35 PM

304. As I said, I avoid that place

Like the proverbial plague.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #304)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:04 PM

317. I don't blame you. I found my way there by default and it has been an experience, let me tell ya!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #109)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:06 PM

202. straw man, nadinbrzezinski

sttraw man. I have seen no posts (now don't read every one, but do read everything on the home page and most LBN articles) where anyone on DU is advocating for the removal of all guns from all homes - not even one! Seems like this is more of a scare tactic to try to pump up gun sales than anything else.

Don't know why you waste your time here?

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Response to lark (Reply #202)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:24 PM

237. I have...several posters are for that.

It's against policy to call them out.

They are as fringe as NRA no regulations on guns types, for the record.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:28 PM

171. Here is how to get food stamps if you know anyone who needs food in any state.

https://www.benefitscheckup.org/cf/snap.cfm?gclid=CPbn2LD51rQCFbKiPAodX1oAcg

by the way on a lot of our public lands and in the state of texas we have a wildfire problem. worse with the drouts and the infestation of cheat grass, it's tinder on a lot of BLM managed lands.

people drive off the roads and their cars/atv will set the grass on fire. The bozos with helecoptors in texas where it's legal to shoot hogs from chopper, never land to get their kills. They just blast away at running animals in the brush and not just hogs. That starts fires aswell sometimes there are sparks when bullets hit rocks.

The BLM themselves allow their choppers to actually hit wild horses with the skids when they round the paniced animals up. Because there is a huge discharge of statc electricity that shocks the horses and can start a fire. Ask anyone what happens if they touch a skid without a groundline.

The rotorwash vortex blasts 100 mph dirt and stones at the animals sometimes blinds them, cuts them but the BLM treats their part of land management as a speed test. They don't care about the horses, the land they sandblast, the other displaced wildlife or the fires they must start sometimes from spark or static.

These wildfires, damages to lands and wildlife are not worth allowing a few people these days to hunt for table food. This is not the 1950s any more.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #171)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:35 PM

174. No

I disagree, because deer have become pests in some areas due to the fact that the local predator population has declined. I don't know where you live, but 3 deer just walked on the paved street outside of my house like they owned the area not 3 weeks ago. Do you want them to starve, or cause a family to die because they get into a wreck with one of them, or would you prefer that they die humanely and grace a table?

I'll take the humane option.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #174)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:05 PM

201. they just made road kill legal to take to table in some states so keep an eye out for them ;)

All those lovely tended grass lawns must be mighty tempting for a species that prefers open grass graze.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #201)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:12 PM

205. Well, I'm a bit in the sticks

and we have deer related car accidents more frequently than they should (not that people getting killed is ever a good thing). They either starve, or start getting in the way of traffic. If people hunt, it's far better than them becoming roadkill, and far more humane.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #201)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:25 PM

238. Oh for fracks face

I got to be careful of deer in both Poway and Santee, hardly the sticks here!!!

Granted, it's not downtown, but.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #238)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:59 AM

391. You know what your mentioning of Santee just reminded me of:

Charles Andrew "Andy" Williams (born February 8, 1986) is an American who, as a teenager perpetrated the shooting at Santana High School on March 5, 2001. In the shooting two students were killed and thirteen others were wounded. Williams is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole for 50 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Andrew_Williams


Hadn't thought back to that horrible day in about a decade.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #391)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:57 AM

396. Yup

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Response to Aerows (Reply #174)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:45 PM

254. 'Local predator population'?

Do you live in an area where wolves, cougars, and brown bear once roamed the land? Deer are adaptable. Same as Canada geese. Their populationa are exploding because of that.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #254)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:17 PM

270. That was my point

the local predator population has diminished. We have fewer predators like cougar.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #270)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:00 PM

284. No one will take away basic hunting weaps.. It would be a quagmire to even tax or permit basic guns.

So 'people have to hunt for food', isn't really an issue with reinstating some laws so crazy people have more trouble buying weapons of mass slaughter and armor piercing bullets.

' Though I still think anyone who needs food stamps and has the proper low income to get them, can.

Far as the deer go, I personally am very worried about chronic wasting disease that is spreading through the deer populations slow and sure. That's a prion disease similar to mad cow. They just aren't sure yet if the deer version can be transmitted to humans. The cow version can. So if you're in a state where chronic wasting is an issue, I wouldn't eat them.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #284)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:06 PM

289. We've been scared

by every disease possible by people with their own agendas that attempt to modify behavior via scary diseases. I'm doing just fine. I still eat medium rare hamburgers, rare filets, and I'm going to eat venison. I have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than I do with getting afflicted by such ailments, and yes, I do go inside, but you have to eat.

I lived with a vegan that warned me every single second of the day of every ill meat can cause you. She was advised by her doctor to start consuming at least a bit of protein and to lay off of the soy.

Your mileage may vary, but since most of the folks in my family reach 100 eating meat and drinking milk, I'll be doing the same.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #289)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:58 PM

315. if you're willing to risk it here is a great way to cook deer ribs

about a cup of your favorite hot sauce make it yourself or store bought. I like barn burner hot, any kind will do. a regular oven set on broil. hot sauce on them and broil about 5-8 mins, not to long but don't leave them raw.

I like meat too and milk, prion diseases like mad cow I take seriously. I want to live to be 110

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Response to Aerows (Reply #270)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:26 PM

298. My question was to ascertain

where youive because the exoding population of whitetails feally is not mainly because of a lack of natural predators. Wolves were nearly wiped out in Minnesota over 100 years ago. The whitetail population was so low 40 years ago that the hunting season was closed for several years. It wasn't necause of timber wolves that their population dropped. We now have so many wolves we have a hunting/trapping season. We also have over a million deer.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #298)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:23 PM

322. could be 40 years ago the hunting pressure was to much for their population to survive.

I would think back 40 years ago everyone hunted year round, there was no season and hunting permits like today. I think it's pretty hard for man to try to recreate a thriving natural balance in nature. We tend to kill the best not the ones that need culling. Even with the wolves it's the knowledge, the pack leaders who roam far in their territory and those are the ones who die first.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #322)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:56 PM

337. It was mostly consecutive harsh winters

that caused the population to drop combined with no restrictions on taking antlerless deer. Licenses for deer hunting have been required in Minnesota for over a hundred years with the season first limited to the month of November. My point is that it is not the lack of predators that has allowed the deer population to explode. The major predators have been gone for about 150 years in most of the U.S.

Your theory on wolves doesn't work either. The Alpha male and female eat first. It's the younger wolves that have a lower life span due to hunger or injury.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #337)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:00 AM

348. I meant the hunters tend to kill the pack knowledge first because they are exposed to hunters more.

you think 40 years ago most of the hunters followed the hunting laws or not? who would catch poachers or even report their fellow hunters.
Perhaps today with global warming and much less trees there is more grasslands and deer population explodes. More hunters following the laws, more hunting police to catch poachers and much less 'we hunt or we starve" type of hunters.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #348)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 05:23 PM

359. Where have you gotten the idea there are fewer trees?

Fewer than when?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #359)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:34 PM

360. no one ever cut down trees in your state or wiped out native grazing species?

Fewer than when the entry of scores of humans overwhelmed the ability of nature to replenish the lands to pristine.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #360)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:07 PM

361. Wow are you ever misinformed.

My family owns 240 acres in nkrthern Minnesota about half is forested with aspen, spruce, and fir. When we bought it the aspen was old and way past it's prime. Much of it was dead but still standing. (Aspen is not like old growth forests where it can live for hundreds of years, it has a life span of 50 to 60). We logged off the old aspen (poor deer habitat and we had few deer and grouse) and it has been replaced with probably 1000x as many new growth aspen. It's a renewable resource.

The only native grazing species where I grew up that is no longer roaming the land is bison. Bison are no longer endangered.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #361)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:16 PM

362. That sounds like beautiful land. What happened to old aspen trees before man was there to log it off

Read some new science report recently about deer and northern forests, I think it was aspen. Don't remember, if I find the article again I will post it to you.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #362)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:00 PM

364. Before logging it would have taken decades longer for

the forest to rejuvinate on its own. Or fire from a kightning strike may have pushed it along. Logging ia not always a bad thing.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #364)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:17 PM

365. I found that article I thought about.

It was about the old aspen forests, dead ones like yours and why they are stuck in that cycle due to a 2 degree warmer climate and drought. your state. Thought it was a good article, maybe plant some conifers? along with thinning.
article also explains why your deer population is exploding.
link https://umdstatesman.wp.d.umn.edu/2012/12/13/changing-landscape-creates-uncertain-future-for-north-shore/

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #365)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 12:15 AM

369. Hat story is partly correct.

The white pine was old growth and replaced by aspen and fir. There is no proof that global warming is the cause of the aspen dying. They get old. They have a different life cycle. While the story is from a college newspaper, it has a mixture of good information and some information that is presented as fact without proper attribution. (I have a communications degree abd used to write for my college newspaper as well). The situation with the forest ecosystem in northern Minnesota predates global warming. The white pine were not replanted after the old growth was logged off. It was replaced with the aspen/birch/fir/spruce forest.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #171)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:22 PM

236. You realize snap programs are getting cut all over right?

I gotta say it, but when it comes to poverty the left hides it's head in the sand.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #236)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:13 PM

291. Certain members of the left

They seem to see eating meat and drinking milk as an atrocity. Conjured up "facts" that paint human beings as herbivores seems to be the norm, when it is clear that we are omnivores by virtue of the fact that we have canine teeth. They weren't designed to rip into industrialized soy products.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #236)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:49 AM

347. if you meet the requirements listed on the Gov. website you will get foodstamps.

People have to apply and ask for them. A lot of people are to proud to ask or ashamed. They shouldn't be ashamed plenty of us Americans are willing to give our fellow Americans in need, a helping hand.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #347)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:50 AM

349. Yup, but programs are being cut

You cannot give what does not exist.

Serious...

The left had these amazing blinders when it comes to poverty.

Also, you got to physically get there from here...urban poor take hours in public transportation to apply to these programs...rural poor don't have that option many a times.

Jesus...some of the folks we have met in the line of work live a good two hours from the nearest office.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #349)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:03 PM

350. computerising these programs has helped cut waste and fraud. Go to the office once to apply.

yes a ride to town is quite a hardship for some people but it has to be done for food for the family. If you don't have a phone ask a neighbor. No computer, ask a neighbor or go to library computer. You'll wait all day if it's crowded too.

It's not a left-right thing, in America we have a food stamp program. We also have computers that help in a major way to cut costs.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #350)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:13 PM

352. And I am telling you a reality

That you do not want to listen to.

Look, I am not the one needing the programs. I live in a city, half an hour by trolley, from the nearest office if I did. But serious, when people have to map every trip, hope the 20 year old junker does not fall appart, and more gas used due to traffic can push them over the edge...serious.

And yes, poverty is not something people comprehend. Public library...hmm let me think, the closest to this particular area is an hour away.

Now, if we had satellite rolling offices, like a few other countries do to deal with rural poor. But there is no money for current staff.. A mobile office, you gotta be kidding me

Yup, people are wearing blinders to the reality out there.

So I really have no issues with rural por raising chickens, when they can, or hunting for squirrel and rabbit and wild turkey. I really don't.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #352)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:07 PM

356. I raise chickens too and don't have an issue at all with hunting legal.

They can use mail to apply if they can't move from their house. America is not going to cut off food stamps to people in need. There is no need to increase staff as we move away from the old ways of paper pusher desk workers.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #356)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:21 PM

366. No, you cannot use mail

You gotta show in person, at least for initial...serious...I think it's time to float an idea for the paper on feature articles on this.

We are well behind other nations. We talk a good name, but we really are not.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #366)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:31 PM

367. perhaps an employee can run out to those shut-ins with applications one day.

Just for the one initial face to face needed. Or maybe offer a ride one day.

We are behind other nations to just make sure all our people eat enough daily.

Even in schools many nations provide meals to all students, without any paperwork or red tape.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #367)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:33 PM

368. Yeah, but we are going backwards

See Florida.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:05 PM

144. I personally know people

That would not have meat on the table were it not for fishing and hunting. Many people eat venison stored in the freezer from a hunt year round. I have no idea where you live in OK, but you probably have people around you that eat venison given to them by neighbors. It's horseshit to think that people don't still depend on hunting and fishing, whether by necessity or by choice.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:30 PM

300. You too?

What a small world...

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #39)


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:17 PM

293. is that your agenda... to make it look that way?

Make it about ALL gun owners vs non-gun owners... that's brilliant! Because gun nuts need more help.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:32 PM

35. Hunting stuff has generally gotten the boot from the Gungeon.

It's an outdoor life topic.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:50 PM

221. It's that 84% urban to 16% rural that is significant to me

The other night one of the gun advocates here claimed that in all 50 states there are people who must get their protein from hunting with guns for economic reasons.

While I am sympathetic to that idea, for the vast majority of us those days are gone. During the Great Depression my mother's older brothers shot wild rabbits for the family pot, but their location in Colorado was so rural that one of the reasons their father lost his Ford dealership was that the local farmers still could break wild horses if they absolutely needed extra "horse-power." That was a long, long, long time ago.

And I don't know about the other 49 states, but in the 50th, the only gun-hunting I ever heard of was fairly much for sport. When I was growing up there, we did have a net-fisherman who lived behind us, and he indeed supplied his family (and ours) with protein. Rural families could raise chickens. But all the hunting I ever heard of was for wild boars, a group activity if ever there was one.

I feel like the mother who hears her kid say, "Everybody does it," and knows darn well there's a significant flaw in that argument.

So you like guns, so you like shooting things up, or hunting, or whatever. Fine. But the 2nd Amendment is not Holy Writ. It's part of the Constitution and like ALL the others subject to change, further amendment, reconsideration, and some restrictions.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #221)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:35 PM

244. Look at your local back country

Some of our local rural poor still hunt rabbit and turkey and deer to feed themselves. I get to talk to them somewhat regularly.

We also have people fishing in the San Diego river, in spite of the warnings of pollutants.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #244)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:50 PM

255. I completely understand that, and am sympathetic to it and supportive of it

However, that still leaves the vast majority of gun lovers in need of some shall we say guidance.

Interesting anecdote: I recently found out that my SIL taught her sons how to hunt with a rifle, and as a consequence one of them brings her a deer (or part of it) every season. That's actually kind of cool.

Also, in addition to the neighbor's fish we ate in the Islands (the ones his wife didn't like, I gathered), one winter when we still lived in the San Fernando Valley we ate elk. Boy oh boy did that elk last forever. One of my dad's workmates shot one and his wife said he had to give part of it away, so my dad rented a meat locker for his share. You may gather from this that we didn't have much money when I was growing up, and my mother in particular had a keen eye for a bargain.

I honestly have nothing against hunters who eat what they kill, especially since I understand that meat, poultry, and seafood do not start their existence wrapped in plastic on styrofoam trays -- and I eat that.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #255)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:57 PM

261. The great dived is actually between the subsistence/ traditional hunters

And them city slickers who indeed want the greatest and latest...and at times are avid readers of Guns and Ammo.

But when we discuss gun policy, including ammo taxation ( an idea suggested here) we must take into account this subset, and the rancher subset.

The former is not plugged in, the latter are though.

I got a theory that many, far from all, of the most vocal NRA types are actually urban or sub-urban types...and that gets for sure to the NRA leadership. Which explains why they don't listen to members.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:06 PM

9. Yes. Hunting with an assualt rifle.

 

At three times the cost of a plain old hunting rifle.


But they are doing it to "feed themselves".

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:17 PM

20. Actually the people doing it as subsistence

At best case use 30-30 carbines that were US surplus. They are your neighbors in fact. They were given that surplus by the government in the 1950s.

The locals I know...one uses a very new (for a hundred year old gun) Winchester lever action... The rest, average is 75 years. So unless the AR platform is that old, oh wait, it isn't.

Some of us, including the OP, tried to explain this to city dwellers who think all hunters use sate of the art, with the latest belts and whistles, AR platform, $3,000 guns.

You know what my locals do when them city slickers come hunting with their new riffles and late model 4x4? They stay home.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:31 PM

34. Minor points

The government gave away M1 carbines, which shoot the 30 Carbine round, not the 30-30. Its not much of a hunting rifle for the west. They are everywhere and up until now been exempt from AWB restrictions.

Some new ARs were going new for around $700 before New Town, cost competitive to new classic bolt action hunting rifles and much more flexible.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:36 PM

38. Civilian Marksmanship Program.

I have 2 rifles sold through that system. US M1917's. Excellent deer platform. I wouldn't have anything against doing it with a garand though.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:27 PM

169. A few minor facts needs to be inserted here

 

A basic AR before this last "Run on Guns" could be bought for well under a grand.

The platform has been around in the civilian world for more than 40 years.

They do make, and have been making for many years a 308 length AR lower receiver and many different caliber uppers that fit it. I have a longer AR lower with a 7MM-08 upper on it. The ammo is kind of rare in most places. It was not built as a battle rifle or to be used in the assault of any person. The 7MM08 is a hunting cartridge. I and my son use it to harvest deer and antelope.

It meets the term and nomenclature of modern sporting rifle in every way. It was conceived and designed as a hunting rifle and that is all it has ever been used for. Finding enough ammo to sustain it's use as a battle rifle would not be possible.

I can buy an AR upper receiver that instantly attaches to the longer AF lower in 22-250 Win, .243 Win, 7MM/08 Rem, 25 WSSM, 243 WSSM, and many other calibers. None of witch are military cartridges or have ever been used by any military as a designated round.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:02 PM

197. The AR15 is over 60 years old. n/t

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Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #197)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:37 PM

246. The AR entered service in the 1960s

It entered the civilian market in the 1970s...

It s not 1920s provenance, or worst 1900s.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #246)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:52 PM

258. Excuse me, "almost" 60 years old. :)

I meant the design, not the retail version. The AR10 was the base design and it was used in the 1957 Army trial for a new battle rifle. The AR15 is almost functionally identical to the AR10, there are differences but overall they are small. Sorry, my bad. I should stated that a little more clearly in my earlier post.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:27 PM

30. Actually a new bolt action and some ARs are cost competitive

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:39 PM

42. Sorta, but not really.

As an entry-level deer rifle, the Remington 700 series rifles are a pretty good, popular rifle. Generally available with a low-end rifle scope in most deer hunting calibers for between $300-400, they're probably the most commonly chosen deer rifle out there right now. Your local Cabelas will be happy to show you several different ones.

You'll pay a lot more than that for the AR-15 type rifles, generally, and they're not a great deer hunting tool at all. Different tool, different purpose.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:33 PM

36. You can build out an AR clone for about 600$. Less for used.

Well, you could a month ago.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:10 PM

14. is it coincidence, OR...

Schadenfreude
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schadenfreude Listeni/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/ (German: ) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. This word is used as a loanword from German, and is also borrowed in some other languages. It has been calqued in Danish and Norwegian as skadefryd, in Swedish as skadeglädje, in Finnish as vahingonilo, and in Russian and Bulgarian as 'злорадство' (zlo'radstvo).

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:14 PM

17. Here's your complimentary PBR, Summer Sausage Roll and bottle opener belt buckle...

No, the irony on the bottle opener being a rainbow-colored state of Texas diecut is not lost on us.

Enjoy your stay now, ya'hear!

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:14 PM

18. YAwn.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:27 PM

29. I'm from the South

We hunt here. We fish here. I've never seen a serious hunter whip out an AR-15 to take out quail, duck or deer.

Pretending that you need an AR-15 for self-defense is also foolishness. It's the macho factor, and that's all. Admit it, then move on, because that is all that it is.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:37 PM

40. Um. It's specifically illegal in most states to shoot birds with a rifle.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:40 PM

43. LOL

Your point is that it is ridiculous to do so? Yes, I agree.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:43 PM

50. No, I mean it's ridiculous for you to point it out.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:45 PM

54. It's ridiculous

and we both pointed it out.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:47 PM

56. No.

"I've never seen a serious hunter whip out an AR-15 to take out quail, duck or deer."


Presumably you've never seen it because 2/3 are illegal, and the latter one is probably illegal, but you didn't identify your state.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:50 PM

61. I'm in the Deep South

You could run around shooting anything you care to here. The point is that people don't, because not only is it ineffective, it's a waste of ammunition to run around loaded up like that to hunt game.

Don't pretend you hunt with an AR-15. You just look silly, and I'm not going to even indulge you with the idea that anyone does so. You know it, and I know it.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:54 PM

66. I live in the PacNW.

We can, and do, but we don't use them for deer, because it is proscribed by law. (And frankly, if it wasn't, I wouldn't try with the specialized ammo anyway, because I was weaned on .30-06.)

There are a lot of people up here that use the AR platform for hunting. Perhaps it is less common where you live.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:56 PM

69. What in the hell are you hunting with an AR-15?

Just asking.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

79. He didn't say AR-15.

 

He said the AR platform which comes in different calibers. I used to own an AR platformed rifle that was chambered for the 7.62X39 round.
I sold it for one hell of a profit.

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Response to tradecenter (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

83. Didn't answer my question

What are you hunting with a high capacity magazine AR-15. What are you hunting with bump-firing an AR-15.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:09 PM

91. Were did he ever say that?

 

Most states only allow 3-5 round mags when hunting.
Only idiots do the bump firing.

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Response to tradecenter (Reply #91)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:10 PM

93. GREAT!

So you are also against such modifications and such magazines?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #93)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:13 PM

99. You bet I am.

 

I would have no problem with limiting mags to 10 rounds.
And bump firing is just a waste of ammo and just plain assholish.

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Response to tradecenter (Reply #99)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:15 PM

102. We are on the same page

Sane discussion is necessary to combat some of the problems we've had. They don't need to include "outlaw everything" anymore than they need to include "anything goes".

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Response to Aerows (Reply #102)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:23 PM

111. I agree that sane debate is needed.

 

I was shocked by some of the posts from both sides that I read here.
We need an honest open national debate on what can be done to lessen the firearms violence in this nation.
And I mean not just the issue of firearms, but also the state of our mental health care, which, since Reagan, has gone to shit.

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Response to tradecenter (Reply #111)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:30 PM

119. That, too

I think starting at a point of discussing what you need a firearm for would be a good place to start. Are you a hunter? Are you using it for self-defense? Are you a sport shooter? All three of those just off of the top of my head have different needs. We need to take into account those needs, but make certain that we aren't ignoring public safety in the fact that the nutjobs will always be with us.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #93)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:20 PM

108. I have some 30 rounders.

Standard mag size that came with my AR. I don't use them for hunting though. From a hunting aspect, most states (mine is an exception for some reason) limit mag size while engaged in hunting.

I wouldn't complain if they started limiting new mags to the designed capacity of the weapon, or even limited it down to 15 or 10. I don't know that it makes much difference. Shithead in Arizona with the Glock-19 and the 32 round mag couldn't get the thing to reload, for precisely the same reason no military uses that mag. (GIANT spring, failure to feed, exploding floorplates) The asshole at Virginia Tech reloaded 11 times using 'standard' mags.

But if the Legislature wants to limit it, I won't complain, and it is legally permissible to limit them.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:15 PM

101. No bump firing.

I have seen people set up with a couple drums, a chair, a monopod, and shoot at rock chucks and gophers for a couple hours. Nothing illegal about it. Horse owners sometimes pay people to do it.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone otherwise hunting with an AR with a full sized mag. (And I wouldn't call gopher destruction 'hunting' really)

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Response to Aerows (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:17 PM

157. He is using the AR designation to muddy the subject here.

 

Doing something like that is second only to attacking the messenger, and for the same reason.

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Response to RC (Reply #157)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:26 PM

167. No I'm not.

 

All I did was state a fact, I, in no way, tried to muddy the subject here.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:04 PM

80. Why is this platform shocking to you in any way?

It's a semi-auto .223. I use a mini-14 as well. Functionally identical for this purpose. Coyote. Shit, it works just fine for anything you can legally take with a small game permit. Also allowed for cougar, but nothing else on the large game permit in this state. One state south of here, it's legal for deer, but again, I tend to consider it a bad idea.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

88. The bump-firing

and high-capacity magazines are what concern me. You don't need 30 rounds to take out a raccoon or a coyote.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #88)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:12 PM

98. I've never seen anyone bump fire at an animal.

Never heard it in the distance either. Chances are pretty good the animal would escape anyway. I notice that whenever someone demonstrates bump firing, they do so at a hillside, not a target. (Because they can't hit shit)

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #98)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:19 PM

106. They don't

Which is why I specifically brought it up. It's a way to essentially make a semi-automatic into an automatic, and you don't do that for hunting. You do that for killing.

That is my huge point of contention, along with drums and hi-cap mags. The only reason to have that many rounds at one load is to kill a bunch of people. Do I think it will do anything to stop the ones in circulation? No. But doing nothing just gives gun owners a bad name, and let's the problem continue to the point where people WILL get grabby.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #106)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:22 PM

110. Bump firing is very different.

When you fire a full auto weapon, you hold it tight, and fight barrel rise. You can keep it pretty on-target if you like or are skilled, and strong. If you bump fire, you are basically holding the weapon loosely in your hand, so the recoil can jack the weapon back and forth against your trigger finger. It is inherently sloppy.

The slide stocks blur the distinction a bit, and I'm not happy that the BATFE ruled the shoestring method impermissible, but allow the slide stocks. That just seems ass backwards to me. Or they should both be banned.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #110)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:26 PM

117. I was specifically referring to slide stocks

when I referred to it, and yes, it isn't as quick, but it is still screwed up to have that in a civilian capacity when any idiot can get a hold of it. I know it is a sloppy method of shooting, but sloppy can still kill a lot of people and that is my issue, along with hi-caps.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #117)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:39 PM

127. I'm surprised that ATF hasn't classified those slide stocks as Title III weapons yet.

 

It's probably coming and I would welcome it.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #117)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:01 PM

139. So far it's not been used in such a manner.

So it's more or less a non-issue, but I will agree the potential is there, especially at close range.

No law is required to ban it. Just a stroke of the pen by the BATFE. I can't really imagine why they don't just up and do it.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

82. A Woolly Mammoth, I'll bet.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:27 PM

332. People.

That's what it was designed for, that's all it's good for.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:54 PM

189. Different rounds for different needs

 

I have been on hunting trips to Wyoming with my 308 length AR lower and three different upper receivers. 22-250 for prairie dogs in the afternoon, .243 WSSM for antelope in the evening, and .308 for mule deer the next morning. One lower receiver and the three appropriate calibers I needed in the different upper receivers. The uppers go on and off the same lower receiver in seconds. Do you really believe that this concept of hunting rifles will go away any time soon. It is much easier to buy the one lower receiver and then buy the upper receivers in the calibers that you will need or want. You do not have to buy several different expensive rifles and scopes that way and they are much easier to transport.
Also the AR upper Receivers are not the part of the rifle that is registered and can be delivered directly to your home.
I think your views on the AR platforms are very narrow and not fully informed. Everything changes and that includes hunting rifles. That change does not depend on you seeing a need for the change or agreeing with the change but this change is already well underway.

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Response to overthehillvet (Reply #189)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:58 PM

192. Everything changes

But my opinion that we don't need 100 round drums, 30 round mags and bump firing or slide stock modifications to an AR-15 for civilian purposes will not change. We'll have to agree to disagree if you believe there is a civilian purpose for such munitions.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:23 PM

27. I can't figure out

why they want to hunt with such a small round. Self defense is a 12-gauge in anyone's book.

I guess I don't get it. I'm not anti-gun, I just believe in using the appropriate gun for the job, and an AR-15 to hunt game with doesn't work. An AR-15 isn't any good for hunting. When I fish, I use smaller hooks because you can catch more fish with them than you can with bigger hooks. I don't waste bait that way, and still go home with a catch. That's hunting and fishing.

Obviously, some of these people that tote AR-15's aren't hunters and fishermen. They just want to obliterate something, feel like they are killing their demons and take out their aggression. That's not a sport. That's a cognitive dysfunction.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:40 PM

44. You are missing some facts

The AR-15 is not just in .223 caliber. It comes in many different ones. ARs are a format/style, not just a rifle that shoots .223

A 12 gauge shotgun is not the best self defense firearm, semi automatic pistols are markedly superior for any number of reasons. One uses that they have but a Berrata 92F, beats a Mossberg in the vast majority of scenarios. While any long gun is inferior for self defense in most cases, ARs are as good as a shotgun in most situations.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:42 PM

47. Keep your AR-15

If someone breaks into my home, they will meet a 12-gauge, and I actually had need of one during an encounter with a wild pig during Katrina. Messy, but extremely effective.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:49 PM

58. I use a semi automatic handgun for self defense. I see no need to handicap

myself in that kind of situation.

If you like your 12 ga, go for it.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:52 PM

65. I do

And it is a tool, like any other.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:03 PM

141. You had food deliver itself to you during Katrina?

Well, there's a bright spot at least.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #141)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:08 PM

147. LOL

It was horrible, because the temperatures were in the high 90's, and there was no electricity or water. Couldn't keep any of it .

That would have been a hell of a barbeque, though!

Now I'm just sad thinking about how good that could have been when it wasn't trying to kill my cat or me or everything in general.

EDIT: I'd have invited you, though, had it been under better conditions. We would have dined like demons

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Response to Aerows (Reply #147)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:10 PM

149. Hogs are mean.

Super mean. Balances out the meanness with tastiness.

I would maybe suggest smoking the meat to preserve in the future, but, of course, that may not have been an option at all. No wood, or no dry place to do it, etc. That sucks.

On top of the broad suckiness of the hurricane itself, of course.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #149)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:21 PM

162. Wild hogs

Scare the shit out of me with good reason. I'll take an alligator in the backyard any day over the SOB that was roaming around terrorizing everything in reach. Thank goodness I don't have either, most of the time. Katrina was a first of epic proportions.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:42 PM

48. I've yet to see a up-rated AR-15 in the field, but I'm sure they exist.

More likely than not, I usually see AR-10's come August.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:50 PM

60. Most people would not know the difference

Its that scary black plastic gun...

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Response to Aerows (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:41 PM

46. You know that some people hunt things that are both smaller and faster than deer, right?

This isn't about deer hunting. Not in most states, as most states prohibit the use of .223 for deer hunting. (There are some recent specialized hunting rounds for these rifles that can be humanely effective against something as large as a deer, but most of the broad state prohibitions on it's use still stand)

"An AR-15 isn't any good for hunting."

Yes, who would want to use a 600y tack driver against a coyote or a boar. I mean, that's just silly right?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:43 PM

49. I live in the sticks

I am familiar with feral hogs.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:45 PM

53. And?

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:46 PM

55. And? n/t

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Response to Aerows (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:51 PM

64. Again.

"Yes, who would want to use a 600y tack driver against a coyote or a boar. I mean, that's just silly right?"


.223 of the appropriate bullet configuration is perfectly acceptable to eliminate pest hogs.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:55 PM

67. Do you hunt game with an AR-15?

Do you willfully, with your knowledge, put yourself into situations where you have to defend yourself against that many coyotes? Hunting is hunting. It is what it is. You have to be prepared. But if you have to be prepared to shoot that many coyotes at one time, you aren't hunting much because they've eaten everything.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #67)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:59 PM

73. Defend myself against a coyote?

Wut?

Yes, I have intentionally gone coyote hunting. Kinda the whole point of hunting coyotes. What do you mean 'that many'? I use a 5 round mag so I can lay prone better.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:02 PM

77. Like a normal hunter

You use a 3 or 5 round mag.

Now excuse my disbelief when people freak out over having 30 round mags outlawed.

Most states don't allow hunting with more than 3. What in the hell does someone need with 30 or 100 rounds? Can you explain that to me? I'm not asking as a gun-grabber, because I wouldn't advocate grabbing guns for anything in the world. All I am thinking of is sanity. You don't need to discharge that many bullets on one load.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:11 PM

95. Our state has no magazine restriction.

Generally the game wardens frown on high-cap shit though. I can see using a hundred round drum for rock chucks and shit like that. Pest elimination.

Shifting gears to the mag issues, well. Most people don't hunt at all. Most gun owners don't hunt. They have those 30 round mags for convenience at the range (I can sympathize, I guess. But it's a 'toy' aspect of the gun, not a 'need or a right'.). I suspect most owners that own them for home defense prefer the larger mags.

Personally I'm ok with some sort of restrictions on it. Cat's kinda already out of the bag though.



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Response to Aerows (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:11 PM

150. I don't know where you are getting

the 3 round limit for hunting. My father has an old Winchester .32 that hold 11 rounds and it is perfectly legal. The removable magazines for our Remingtons all hold 4 rounds. Some people put an additional round in the chamber, I do not.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #150)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:17 PM

158. Many states have a five round limit on mag capacity for hunting.

Yours may not.

For upland bird, usually you have to put a dowel inside a pump action shotgun so it cannot hold more than 3 rounds. (And yes, the game wardens in this state WILL check your ass.)

There are of course, some states with no limits. They seem rare, though.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #158)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:45 PM

180. There is no magazine capacity limit for hunting in Minnesota

with exception of waterfowl hunting. There is a 3 roind max for waterfowl hunting, but that is a federal law. Unless the law has been changed (I don't think it has) there is no magazine limit for upland bird hunting. In the old days when pheasant hunting we never bothered to take the plug out and just hunted with the 3 rounds.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #180)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:03 PM

199. I don't live in Minnesota

so I can't say what is legal in the state of Minnesota, I just know what is legal here.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #199)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:34 PM

243. You probably should not have stated that most states limit magazine capacity to 3 rounds while hunti

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #150)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:10 PM

204. The old Winchester .32 that holds 11 rounds

Does it shoot worth a shit?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #204)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:37 PM

245. It shoots great. It's a Model 94 made about a hundred years ago.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:17 PM

104. "They just want to obliterate something"

--yep that's the new wave of hunters that I encounter in the woods...

We call em "shooters" not hunters, and they plague every rural/urban transition zone in the country. These macho guys shoot anything WITH anything. Use high-powered rifles between housing developments. And there's no hunting "season." Sounds like a war zone some days.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #104)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:05 PM

142. We have a fairly aggressive game warden program here in WA state.

And people aren't shy about turning other people in. It's a general cultural issue we have to get in front of. When people behave like that, it hurts all hunters. No matter how ethical.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #142)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:25 PM

166. Nothing much happens if you do report it here in the Southeast

the county cops look the other way. They claim not to have the time to try to run down the shooters. Maybe they're afraid of being shot.

Yes, it hurts all hunters. It makes the woods uninhabitable for hikers and nature lovers. These guys I call woodland terrorists.

Actually if I were hunting the old fashioned way, I'd be worried about these clowns. At least around here. I would think legitimate hunters would favor stricter controls on these types of abuses. But seems like, a lot don't.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #166)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:37 PM

175. I wonder if there's a money allocation issue.

The 11% surcharge on ammo is supposed to go to habitat, preservation, conservation. I wonder if those states just don't fund the game wardens like they should, or like we do. It's not like hunting is a new thing in Washington. We have subsistence hunters as well.

But I hear your comments a lot from people in southern states.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #175)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:53 PM

223. We don't have game wardens

just county sheriffs and city police. They're not allocating any money to it because they don't see it as a problem. The laws have no teeth. They allow people to ride around in their ATVs shooting at anything that moves.

Around here, "preservation" means run for it --humans as well as animals...

you're lucky to live in a place that has any kind of enforcement.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #223)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:54 PM

260. Merely out if curiosity, in what state are you located.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:35 PM

37. Thanks BongBong

 

you deserve capitals. We are merely this close to FEMA camps. Only assault weapons are stopping that eventuality.

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Response to salinen (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:00 PM

75. ????

 

> We are merely this close to FEMA camps. Only assault weapons are stopping that eventuality.

You GOTTA be using sarcasm here, so I'll give you a pass...

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Response to bongbong (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:40 PM

274. Sarcasm yes

 

but I keep meeting people who think this way. We need to import more Psychiatrists.

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Response to salinen (Reply #274)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:48 PM

279. You never know

 

I just found out a DU Delicate Flower who had over 15,000 posts was shitcanned today for being a troll.

The NRA plays a deep-cover game, it seems.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:41 PM

45. I really recommend the 6.8 or 6.5 if you're hunting med game.

I've let my son hunt with the wifes AR in WV, but in VA you can't use the 223 for deer. Here in VA we use it mostly for crows and coyotes.

Hopefully I'll have us a 6.8 when we hit the field next year in rifle season.

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Response to ileus (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:01 PM

76. What about animals about 6 foot tall, weighing 200 pounds?

 

What brings them down the best?

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Response to bongbong (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:16 PM

103. Depends.

Are these deer wearing body armor, and shooting back at you?

Because there's a LOT of noise in the military to move UP from .223 for precisely this reason. Like the Grendel round.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #103)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:12 PM

151. I think the ole poodle shooter is a good bad guy stopper

for most home defense uses...of course for close quarters the sub sonic 300 blk round from a 7" SBR with a muffler would be great.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:06 PM

145. the 6.5 or 6.8 are good for elk.

Moose not so much.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:44 PM

51. Target Shooting...

IMHO is the only genuine "need" for military style weapons. They suck for hunting anything other than small game (and plenty of alternatives exist) and they suck for personal defense (again, handguns are far better suited for that).

While I'm sympathetic to those who use these firearms for competetive shooting, I just don't see how one can reasonably weigh the "need" for target shooting against the danger these weapons pose to the general public.

I'd like to see them regulated with the same care that we use for fully-automatic weapons, with the goal being that over time, they will be exclusively in the hands of gun collectors (who tend to be a pretty sober and law-abiding group). Full Disclosure: I'm not a gun collector, so while I am generally law abiding, I would fail the "sober" test with flying colors.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:38 PM

247. Could just do what other countries do

The guns have to stay at the licensed gun range. Would continue to allow their use for target shooting, while making it more difficult to use them for people shooting.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #247)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:53 PM

259. Actually that makes sense

That would not impinge on people's personal small firearms for the home, either.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #247)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:50 PM

329. Works for me...

But I'm not one of "those" people.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #329)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:00 AM

397. I am, I suppose, and I think a civilian arsenal is a workable idea

I'm not ecstatic about giving thieves a one-stop-shop for all their weapons-stealing needs, but I think in cities and suburbs it would be a good idea.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:44 PM

52. JFK murder

 

I believe President Kennedy was killed by an assault rifle. Of course it had a small clip (bullet holding thingy) and was a bolt action (the thingy that moves the bullets from the holding thingy to the breechy thingy)

Now being old enough to recall this event, I am wondering if this rifle (barrel has a groovy thingy) is classified as an assault rifle anymore?

Three shots in a few seconds from a firearm (aside from the pricey thingy) that would easily qualify as a hunting rifle if it had been marketed by an American manufacturer.

ALL firearms are ASSAULT weapons
ALL firearms can kill (thats why they were invented)
ALL mass murdering governments of the 20th century banned them. (That includes the Soviets and Chinese who murdered enough people (human thingys) to make Hitler look like a high school despot. (100 MILLION of those human thingys)

Love this site

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Response to GoresBigOilSlick (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:50 PM

62. The probleem is firearms are meant to save lives.

any other use (other than hunting or punching paper) is a human misuse and should be treated as such.

All my SD firearms are for protection of family and property. Some HD's like my AR's can also be used for hunting.

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Response to GoresBigOilSlick (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

81. Pizza TIME!

 

What a coincidence!

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Response to bongbong (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:31 PM

121. Yeah.

 

The username, GoresBigOilSlick was kind of a dead giveaway.

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Response to GoresBigOilSlick (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

84. What, no thanks for the pizza?

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Response to GoresBigOilSlick (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:56 PM

136. Now, go and

enjoy that pizza thingy...

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:48 PM

57. Don't knock it if you have never hunted squirrel with an assault rifle with a large clip

(Note)

Sarcasm

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Response to still_one (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:03 AM

398. Generally the large magazine is illegal for squirrel hunting

But, yeah, squirrels and groundhogs are popular things to hunt with low-caliber rifles like the AR.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:49 PM

59. Outlaw hunting and all excuses for owning any weapons for any other reason

than blowing away a fellow human being who might be invading your home will go away.

Now, I'm putting my asbestos suit on. Flame away.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:51 PM

63. And this OP contributes to an intelligent discussion of gun laws by doing...???

Being cutesy and snarky is no way to help bring everyone together, son.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

78. Pointing out NRA-bots infesting DU ....

 

is.



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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

85. The Dittohead legions will salute you, sir.




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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

86. I love this post ...

Your point is exquisitely made by the volume of replies defending assault rifles and trying to impose the narrowest definition of that term.

As the owner of multiple firearms, including both a semi-auto rifle and a semi-auto pistol, it pains me to see the hair-splitting and just plain bullshit trying to defend unbridled, unregulated private ownership of massive amounts of firepower.

I'm very disappointed that DU admins have allowed these obvious troll to remain here.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #86)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:11 PM

96. Yes!

 

> trying to impose the narrowest definition of that term.

I've seen that kind of distraction-action on lots of gun posts. In fact I started a thread about gun minutiae.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022081819

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:07 PM

89. I see that Mirt has been very good at getting rid of them. n/t

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:09 PM

92. bongbong

You left out the 'thanks for sharing' your vast knowledge on guns on every single thread.


You say: I got my period today. Response: Really - the AR-15 has a good grip.
You say: I stubbed my toe. Response: I hunt deer with a flame thrower.
You say: Did you know the sky is blue? Response: I have 10 boxes of bullets in case I need to use them.



Blah blah, blah blah, blah blah.


I thought all of the gun threads had to go to the gun board? Or did I miss something?

Then again - I could post in GD the following topic - - What do you think of Green2 products?

And one of them will respond with, "I own a bright green beretta."

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:17 PM

156. LOL

 

Great post. Thanks for the reply.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #156)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:23 PM

165. You my friend!

Are welcome! You gave me a good laugh today with this!

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:25 PM

115. kick

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:26 PM

116. We need a Hunting Group!

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Response to grantcart (Reply #116)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:31 PM

120. Hunting and Fishing

Do exclude those that like to fish

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Response to grantcart (Reply #116)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:38 PM

176. Outdoor life allows it.

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Response to bongbong (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:34 PM

125. Gun control only penalizes law abiding citizens

 

I am a progressive, gun toting liberal. For those of you out there that think an assault weapons ban or a ban on magazine capacity is going to stop or at least slow down gun violence in America, you are SADLY mistaken. The cat is out of the bag. There are simply too many guns in America.
I would also like to add that I own 3 AR-15 variants. Each worth several thousand dollars. Not one of them is fully automatic. They were custom made to my specifications for hunting predators. Such as, but not limited to, bobcat, coyote, fox, feral hog. I also enjoy varmint hunting, i.e., groundhog and prairie dog.

I too want to never have the type of tragedies that we've suffered as a nation, ESPECIALLY @ Sandy Hook. My heart felt like it was ripped out when I heard the news that day as I watched the facts unfold. As millions of other Americans parents did such as I.

That still doesn't justify penalizing non-criminals. Millions of gun LEGAL gun owners didn't hurt anyone with their weapons on those days.

I hunt every chance I get. I have an assortment of weapons. Pistols, rifles, shotguns, a crossbow and 2 compound bows. Although, this is why I use high capacity magazines.

Also, before anyone goes on and on about what we do with the animals. They're left where they die. Some of the hogs are recovered but not many. These are depredation hunts. Look it up if you don't know what that is. It has a purpose and it's very necessary. The AR-15 is the perfect hunting rifle for these and other types of outings.
Let's focus on the psychos in our country instead of sweeping that fact under the rug.

Disclaimer: That is not me in the video. I am not affiliated with this particular video nor do I own the video.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:44 PM

129. This post

Would probably be better in the Gun forum. . . I know that's where all of the activity there is on who owns what type of guns and to share opinions and such on them.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #129)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:16 PM

379. So, just because you disagree with my posts, it needs to be moved now?

 

What kind of BULLSHIT is this. I'm talking about gun control. I have gun control. I hit what I'm aiming at.

Go ahead, give up your rights little by little. Then when the SHTF, you'll be the one begging for someone to help due to your lack of ability to protect yourself from harm. I call them 'Sheeple'.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #379)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:30 PM

384. How exactly will the shit hit the fan, Sarah?

Please, enlighten me.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:48 PM

131. Gun porn.

Sarah Palin would be proud!

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:01 PM

138. Well now, aren't

you special. Three AR-15s worth several thousands of dollars? What a card-carrying manly man you must be...

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:01 PM

140. Are you saying you are so selfish that having fun hunting with ARs is more important

then getting them removed from the population to help avoid mass murders? The same for hi-cap mags?

Doesn't your perceived need of having 'the perfect gun' simply to hunt small game sort of diminish when you see how these specific (and other types of) guns are mis-used? I.E. If you have unfettered access, so does just about everyone else.

Apparently your heart wasn't ripped all that much.

Good luck on YOUR next hunt of small critters...

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:18 PM

160. You sound very scared

 

My condolences to anyone that has to deal with your level of paranoia.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #160)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 03:50 AM

372. Believe this,

 

I'm not scared.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #372)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:14 AM

374. LOL

 

Forgive me for not believing somebody who needs lotsa guns isn't scared.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #374)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:20 PM

380. I ain't convinced either.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:21 PM

163. So, let's do nothing then?

First off, your title that it hurts only the "law abiding citizens" is another one of those memes that really has no meaning or proof. If we had stricter gun laws, that a-hole in CT doesn't get his hands on three guns and kill 27 people. How can rational gun control "only" hurt those who don't break laws? It makes no sense whatsoever.
Second, this "it's too late to do anything about it" crap is, well, crap. Why make any laws to change what's going on? There are 40 million people without healthcare - oh well, too late to do anything about that. Cars are "unsafe at any speed" - oops, wish we could have done something before. Just because the problem is a big one, doesn't mean it can be fixed. Try to come up with a real reason.
You say you never want to have that type of tragedy again, but you're unwilling to do anything about it? That also makes no sense.

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Response to eaglesfanintn (Reply #163)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:38 PM

177. It's just NRA Talking Points

 

There are about 30-40 standard NRA Talking Points. You responded to some of the more popular ones that the 'bots like to parrot.

BTW, all of those Talking Points were rebutted about 100 years ago (at least). But they never die, since too many people (the Delicate Flowers, AKA gun nuts) are too scared to face life without their Precious.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #177)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:36 PM

213. delicate flowers ???

 

In your opinion; what separates a lawful gun owner from a "gun nut"?

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Response to saltire (Reply #213)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:39 PM

215. That's easy!

 

People with 2 posts who come on a Liberal chatboard to waste Liberal's time with bogus NRA Talking Points (AKA Big Lies)

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Response to bongbong (Reply #215)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:52 PM

222. I'm really trying to understand..

 

...how you democrat/republicans think....make that 4 posts now; but you have not answered the question,

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Response to saltire (Reply #222)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:01 PM

226. Read

 

> how you democrat/republicans think

Read DU's FAQs and TOS.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #226)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:04 PM

227. ok, but still no answer?

 

what is the difference between a legal gun owner and a "gun nut"?

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Response to saltire (Reply #227)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:11 PM

266. Your question

 

When you get to 100 posts, ask again.

I gotta use that filter since there are too many trolls sent here lately by OxyRush (the noted pedophile & drug addict). They waste Liberal's valuable time.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #266)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:47 PM

308. Answer the question, already

Once upon a time, you had less than a hundred posts on DU.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #308)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:51 PM

312. I'll let you

 

If you feel like wasting time on a guy who has only spewed NRA Talking Points and Freeper-speak since he joined.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #312)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:02 PM

316. what is freeper-speak

 

and we just happen to be talking about guns today, there are many other topics to discuss

if that's ok with you Reverend Bongbong....

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Response to saltire (Reply #227)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:09 AM

373. Well intentioned

 

as they may be. They're paralyzed by fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear rules their lives. If it can't be controlled properly...BAN IT. I'm seeing the sheeple speak here instead of what this country really needs. Patriots that aren't disconnected from the real world due to a false sense of security provided by their so-called government. We're slowly turning into a police state, yet no one want s to acknowledge that fact.
When our guns are taken, so is our ability to fight tyranny. The Department of Homeland Security is taking away our freedoms every single day. Yet all I hear are cries for gun control after a mentally sick kid that was TAUGHT TO SHOOT BY HIS INCOMPETENT MOTHER commits mass murder. I don't hear ANYONE talking about the role the mother played by giving her child, btw she had to have known his instability, access to firearms, much less a butter knife.
You all want answers. You all want closure. I'll tell you this, targeting AR-15's IS NOT going to stop the gun violence. Due to the very simple fact that SO many of you are unwilling to accept. Mass murderers are going to inflict the damage they want, they don't need AR-15 variants to do it.
Making schools gun free zones is an advertisement for psycho fucks to come kill all they want with ease and no resistance.

Guns aren't going to be turned in voluntarily to our government. At least mine won't, that's for damn sure. New laws won't help the victims and won't help in future crimes. We need TOTAL comprehensive reform of our mental health system NOW!
I advocate forced medication and/or incarceration if they don't comply after being found unstable.
Enough is enough of the sweeping under the rug of our crazies in this country.\

MEDICATE AND/OR INCARCERATE, SEGREGATE

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Response to saltire (Reply #213)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:10 PM

230. Please allow me to explain.

Most lawful gun owners are not concerned that bad old Democrats are going to take their guns away, and seldom post about guns on the Internet.

Gun nuts, on the other hand, swarm to Liberal message boards and scream that they have 2nd Amendment rights to hunt Bambi with an assault rifle and a 30-round clip of ammo. They also scream and shout that they will absolutely NOT comply with any laws passed stating that they need to register their guns. Gun nuts tend to be NRA members, and believe that Wayne LePew and Ted Nugent are reliable sources of information, and that the right-wing, neoconservative corporate sponsors of the NRA are the righteous defenders of the Constitution and Liberty.

Does that straighten things out for you?...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #230)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:31 PM

241. you make some good points

 

The 2nd amd is certainly not about hunting and 30 round magazines and assault rifles are not very practical, I have owned several and personally have no use for them; but what purpose would registration serve other than as a data base for future consfiscation?

Who are the defenders of the Constitution and Liberty ?

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Response to saltire (Reply #241)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:43 PM

250. And there is that NRA bullshit again.

Confiscation? By whom? Are you afraid that we bad old Democrats are going to come and grab your guns? Is that why your are afraid to go out in public without a gun? These unfounded paranoid talking points are being used by the NRA to entice people like you to buy more guns, and you don't even know that you are being fleeced.

Defenders of the Constitution and Liberty are true Americans who vote, pay taxes, and are not so afraid of their neighbors that they prepare to shoot them, and brag to the world that they have "2nd Amendment rights" to prepare for the end of the world.

You, and NRA clones like you, are truly some scary people, and the sooner that we pass some laws to put the brakes on your stockpiling of weapons and ammunition, the sooner this country will become safer for everyone.

More gun nuts equals more guns. More guns, in more hands, equals more death and injuries.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #250)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:41 PM

276. you call me scary..

 

you are obviously not keeping up with current events; consfiscation by whom, well from your post the answer would be "people like you".

if you do the research you will find that the places with the strictest gun laws are the most dangerous, places like Chicago.

so you would would like to turn the world back over to big guys with knives and bats , tell you what, put a big sign on your front lawn that says "There Are No Guns In This House" and let's see what happens.

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Response to saltire (Reply #276)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:03 PM

286. Yes, I do keep up with current

events, and you gun huggers are losing this NRA-supported good guys vs. bad guys debate. No politician of any consequence has even vaguely suggested "confiscation" of ALL guns. Some guns should be made illegal for civilian use, and that legislation will be forthcoming.

Chicago is dangerous because of drugs and gangs, and NOT because there are not armed vigilantes roaming the streets. This is yet another unfounded NRA bullshit talking point aimed at weakening gun control and making guns more accessible.

And as far as putting that sign on my yard, my neighbors, other residents, and the tourists would laugh me out of town. You see I live in Hawaii, on the island of Maui, and absolutely no one carries concealed here. A few of my friends have guns for hunting (deer, wild goats, wild pigs, pheasant) but none of them brag about their guns, nor are they afraid that someone is going to take them away. Did I also mention that in Hawaii all guns must be registered, and if someone is caught with an unregistered firearm, they just may go to jail -- depending on the circumstances.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #286)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:34 PM

302. hey, I went to UH Manoa

 

Maui is hardly an example of the real world and you are right about chicago, armed gangs are another reason honest people need to protect themselves....I mean what do you have to worry about on Maui, the most dangerous thing there would be some dumbass howlie running you over in a rent car because they had too much pakololo.

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Response to saltire (Reply #302)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:11 AM

392. "troll who unmasked to express secessionist garbage"

Also, it's H-A-O-L-E not howlie fer Christ sakes.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #250)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:05 PM

288. How do you alert the admins of a new troll

 

We got one here for sure!

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Response to bongbong (Reply #288)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:10 PM

290. Not sure, but I just

alerted on this clown, and said that I believe him to be a PPRed zombie.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #288)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:20 PM

295. Yep, and the ignore feature will

just have to do I guess.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #295)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:42 PM

305. so this is like a baptist church

 

only orthodox approved thoughts and opinions are acceptable?

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Response to saltire (Reply #305)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:45 PM

363. Baptists who observe the community standards here are ok

Gun humpers who parrot NRA talking points are not. Pretty sure I know which group you belong to.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #230)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:14 PM

268. Are you claiming that 'gun nuts'

do not own their guns legally? That is what your implies. I have few guns, I do not believe any of my guns will be confiscated. I have frequently been called a 'gun nut' on these threads.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:44 PM

179. That is some bullshit right there.

Depredation or no, there are humane ways to do it. That isn't it.

Wherever you live, there aren't enough power lines.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #179)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:13 PM

378. It's as humane as it gets from a helicopter.

 

We swing around and dispatch if necessary, usually. The world is a brutal place. We're not in it to be politically correct. We're in it to kill animals that cause MILLIONS of dollars of damage every year. The AR-15 is the PERFECT rifle for the job. It's fast and effective. In 2 flights last year over 400 hogs were killed in one day by just three shooters. Name ANY other method that could have taken so many that quickly? Trapping? Bait stations? Nope.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #378)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 04:48 PM

382. 'from a helicopter'.

And therein lies the rub. Efficient does not equal 'humane'.

I don't care that three people can do that from a helicopter in one day. If you HUNT them on foot, that's a hell of a lot better than, what... let's see, that first hog ran out for a good mile or more before the shooter scored a crippling hit? 2 minutes of fucking around? 4 minutes for hog 2? Blindly shooting into heavy brush?

The rifle is fine, I don't care about that, I don't accept that your method is required or wise, at the cost of putting those animals through that sort of death.

None of those deaths were clean, hog 2 may not have even died.

Edit: Averaging 4 minutes per kill, working 24h a day, you can't kill 400 hogs in a day, by the way.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #382)


Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #387)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 03:24 AM

388. There is a REASON you do not shoot blindly into brush like that.

Fourth rule of firearms: Know your target and what is beyond it.
One fuckup and a human gets shot too.


So that's fucking stupid right there.

Feral or not, granola or not (I'm a hunter by the way, you're not going to shock me with the weapon either, mine is from Olympic Arms) it's cruel to leave an animal to suffer like that. They aren't getting into the crops to piss you off, they are eating. They are alive. Pretty sick that you'd yuck it up like that. Also incredibly wasteful to let the meat rot like that. Reminds me of the gutless trophy hunters that'll shoot an entire buck just to take a photo and leave the carcass to rot.

Feeding the Coyotes isn't terribly bright either. Since working together they can bring down even an animal as large as an Elk, I'm not sure you're doing the ranchers a whole lot of favors there.


As a side note, you might want to give a thought to your idioms. 'could care less' 'could give a fuck' means pretty much the opposite of what you probably meant to say there..

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #387)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:08 AM

403. While you're still here.....

Please let me know what other boards you visit so I can read your brilliant works--

I still want to be your best buddy....

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #378)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:36 PM

385. You and your helicoptering have saved us all from the brutal hogs, Sarah.

Those brutal, politically correct hogs.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:58 PM

193. Don't waste your time here.

If you are serious about being on the DU, don't waste your time on gun issues right now.

The anti gun, guns are only for murder, no guns are the only way, crowd is out in full force.

If you want to talk about guns, you'll have to wait a while, because the adults left a while, and only the children are left here to call you a murderer and some kind of flower.

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Response to Indydem (Reply #193)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:45 PM

218. LOL

 

> and only the children are left here to call you a murderer and some kind of flower.

People who need a Precious to feel safe enough to venture out of their house are "adults", and people well-adjusted enough to not need one are "children"?

You Delicate Flowers are a laugh riot!

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Response to Indydem (Reply #193)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:16 PM

269. "Only the children are left here to call you a murderer." Quite the opposite.

The children were gunned down. That's the reason we're all talking about this.

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Response to Gordonfan24 (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:24 PM

208. Question is - do you carry a gun when you venture into public?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #208)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:48 PM

219. yes, I'm one of the good guys

 

those of us who have concealed handgun licenses carry most of the time, do you find that disturbing?

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Response to saltire (Reply #219)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:18 PM

232. What I find disturbing is that although

you carry concealed, you come on the Internet and tell the world about it.

Are you bragging? What makes you a "good guy?" Is it the fact that you have passed a background check? That only means that you have not been caught yet, and tells us absolutely nothing about your moral character, nor your propensity for anger.

Those of you who carry concealed "most of the time," are in fact displaying paranoia and fear of being attacked by unknown assailants. Those of you who carry concealed "most of the time," are actually wannabe vigilantes looking for a windmill (or an innocent bystander) to shoot.

If AR-15s were easy to conceal you and your type would have one of those shoved down your pants in a heartbeat...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #232)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:13 PM

267. what an odd reply..wrong on so many levels

 

First you assume that anyone without a criminal record simply has not been "caught yet".

I have been vetted by the FBI, the state police and the county sheriff; if I had a propensity for anger or violence, it would have at some point manifested and I would never have been allowed a chl; if you do the research and check the stats you will find that chl holders are the most law abiding people in the country.

Believe me, no one who carries a gun legally is "looking to shoot" anyone; but tell me, what do you think might have happened differently at Sandy Hook if a few of the teachers were armed ?

I have no use for ARs, I don't even like going to the range, it's no more fun than going to the gym, but if the worst happens, the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and yes, I'm one of the good guys.


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Response to saltire (Reply #267)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:24 PM

272. "good guys"

 

I'm sure Adam Lanza called himself a "good guy" just like you do.

Anybody who claims they're a "good guy" would have to PROVE it - with in-depth mental health examinations and a detailed history of his/her life for starters.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #272)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:47 PM

278. Lanza was on very dangerous psych meds

 

as was the shooter in Aurora, and since you bring it up,, my question is,would you prefer dead kids to armed teachers?

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Response to saltire (Reply #278)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:59 PM

283. LOL

 

And he wasn't taking them, and he considered himself a "good guy".

> would you prefer dead kids to armed teachers?

NRA TALKING POINT ALERT! NRA TALKING POINT ALERT! NRA TALKING POINT ALERT! NRA TALKING POINT ALERT!

Your stupid talking point has been debunked by thousands of people already.

Let me ask you a question, since you've come on here and asked lots and lots of questions: Do you consider Rush Limbaugh a

a) drug addict
b) pedophile
c) liar
d) your idol that you would sleep with

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Response to bongbong (Reply #283)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:52 PM

313. I consider Rush..

 

...an entertainer and never listen to his program, he is just as much a part of the mainstream media as fox or msnbc.

maybe you don't have kids, but when you do you will want to make sure they are safe at school, and no gun law will insure that,only armed school personnel

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Response to saltire (Reply #313)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:06 PM

318. Not one of the choices

 

You gotta pick a thru d. One - or more - of them.

Giving you a choice of 4 is better than the false dilemma rhetorical lies you've been littering DU with.

(I don't know why toying with an obvious wingnut Talking Point Parrot Troll is so amusing!)

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Response to bongbong (Reply #318)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:20 PM

320. So you still got one

on the line? They're tenacious little rascals aren't they? Especially when they're carrying their intelligence "concealed"...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #320)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:33 PM

323. Concealed intelligence

 

That's a very apt phrase.

They're wearing camo over their brains.

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Response to saltire (Reply #267)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:38 PM

273. And yet you come

onto a Liberal discussion board, on the World Wide Web (Internet) and openly brag about your very manly act of carrying a concealed weapon in public. Why would anyone question your motives when you obviously expect to encounter a "bad guy" every time you go outside of your obviously very small comfort zone.

Your admitted paranoia and fear of people in general, and your obvious need to brag about carrying a gun in public, provides all of the information I need to know that you are indeed potentially dangerous. That you feel the need to self-identify as a "good guy" with a gun is even more suspect. Are you a law enforcement officer?

And, no I don't believe you when you say that "no one who carries a gun legally is 'looking to shoot' anyone." Why in the world would someone carry a gun in public if they are not fully prepared and willing to shoot anyone who appears to threaten them. That is the very definition of "looking to shoot someone," just like George Zimmerman, and all of the other vigilante "stand your ground" killings that have been reported.

And the call for arming teachers by your hero Wayne LePew is the most obscene suggestion that you and your gun buddies could have ever presented. Even most teachers think that your suggestion is obscene and disrespectful of the children who were gunned down like enemy combatants. More guns is NOT the answer to this country's gun problem.

Less guns, and stricter control and tracking of the ones already in the public arena is the answer. The military and our police forces know where every gun under their control is at all times. Why shouldn't we civilians have the same information and control?

The NRA talking point about good guys and bad guys would be laughable if it weren't so ignorantly sad. Guns do indeed kill people, when they are used by anyone -- regardless of their good or bad intentions. Easy access to guns, and people like you who believe that more guns and easier access is the answer to the problem, is the very real problem with guns in this country.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #273)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:15 PM

292. is this an adult group

 

i am in no way bragging, this is a discussion about guns.

I don't expect to encounter a situation where deadly force will be required any more than you expect to have a car wreck everytime you put your seatbelt on.

If I understand your post, dead children are more acceptable than armed teachers and yes I am willing to use deadly force if necessary to protect myself or my family, so would you if the situation arose.

This is not about guns, it's about something much deeper, why would you fear an armed citizen?

Why would you want your children to be unprotected in a "gun free zone"

Have you ever studied history ?


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Response to saltire (Reply #292)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:22 PM

321. Several points

1.- maybe the standards have changed, but concealed carry people are advised not to tell anybody outside significant others...in the off chance they gotta clear leather.

I know some states have weakened requirements to the point you find them as a Cracker Jack price, almost...so perhaps this explains the penchant to go on the interwebs and tell the world...see I carry!

2.- You are not supposed to look up trouble, unless you are a LEO...then it's part f the job

3.- Of course you will hit all you target, rounds will not over penetrate (you are the good guy) and not hit a bystander as well.

4.- No, we don't need armed teachers in schools.

5.- I hold a masters in history and can see actual correlations between lower gun related violence and higher gun regulations. In order for them to work though, as they should, cities can't do it alone...it's gotta be federal.

Don't worry son, won't bother with your response.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #321)


Response to saltire (Reply #328)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:11 PM

331. I do love the NRA talking points.

Especially the disarmed populations meme. Given this is not even on the table...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #331)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:32 PM

338. nra talking points

 

is that all you have ?

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Response to saltire (Reply #338)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:41 PM

339. Son it is, and here it is better

Nobody in serious policy positions is even talking this even as a joke.

If this was not so funny...it is pathetic.

But "serious gun owners" who are not, are discussing in all seriousness what is not even bellow the earth, let alone the table. None is coming to take away your, or my guns. Nobody.

They are safe from evvviiiiillll gub'mint forces...since that is a paranoid fantasy.

I expected better from a so called responsible, (tell it to the world) concealed weapons carrier who also believes the fantasy of no over-penetration. Which s a fantasy...but I am sure you remember what you should do before pulling the trigger and chiefly why. Oh and clear leather, you ignorant fool, is a term used by my local cops, and even instructors, at the local academy.

As to the rest of your other points, yup, it is of some concern the evil gub'mint is buying ammo which you correctly identify as not allowed in combat theaters. Neither is CS gas, and the cops use it regularly...but DHS getting MRAPs is far more serious... But hey, I expect them to sadly need 'em. I just hope they get the proper warrants.

You want a friendlier reception, your fellow travelers live on this site, in the RKBA group.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #273)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 03:25 PM

354. He wasn't bragging, he was ASKED.

You realize LOTS of DU members, entirely outside the circle of union police officers that have license to carry at all times in all states per federal law on duty or off duty, have concealed weapons permits and carry, right?

I get that you probably feel like you are engaging a disruptor there, but the language you are attacking him with applies to a lot more people than you think. People who have very good reasons to carry, like abused partners, etc.


On the flip side, his claim that people with permits usually carry is not true. Guarantee it is not true. Some may carry religiously, but it is by no means a majority. There are a lot of places you can't go, or can't even work, while carrying. A lot of things you cannot realistically do while carrying, etc. So much so that trainers will often encourage students with platitudes like 'the .32 you have on you is a better defensive caliber than the .45 you left at home'. (the .45 being big, and heavy, and a pain in the ass to conceal)

And I agree with you on the good/bad guy meme. All it takes is a single decision for someone to cross that line. So it doesn't tell us much about the people who carry. What does tell us something, is the permit revocation numbers published in various states.

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