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Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:43 AM

Let's make some more reactionary, xenophobic heads explode: WH Petition for the Metric System

Go forth. You know what to do.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-metric-system-standard-united-states-instead-imperial-system/FndsKXLh

Almost 2/3rds there.

Make the Metric system the standard in the United States, instead of the Imperial system.

The United States is one of the few countries left in the world who still have not converted to using the Metric System as a standardized system of measurement. Instead of going along with what the rest of the world uses, we stubbornly still adhere to using the imprecise Imperial Unit - despite the fact that practically every other country that we interact with uses Metric.

Why should we convert to using the Metric System? Because it's superior, less convoluted - everything is ordered in units of tens, while the chaotic arrangement of the Imperial System slows things down for us - not only in terms of education, but also businesses, science, foreign relations, and daily life.

Created: Dec 31, 2012
Issues: Education, Science and Space Policy

103 replies, 4753 views

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Reply Let's make some more reactionary, xenophobic heads explode: WH Petition for the Metric System (Original post)
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 OP
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #1
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #4
kentauros Jan 2013 #7
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #38
kentauros Jan 2013 #45
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #51
kentauros Jan 2013 #58
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #61
kentauros Jan 2013 #64
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #18
kentauros Jan 2013 #23
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #41
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #48
kentauros Jan 2013 #49
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #53
kentauros Jan 2013 #60
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #56
kentauros Jan 2013 #59
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #62
kentauros Jan 2013 #63
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #68
kentauros Jan 2013 #69
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #40
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #47
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #26
politicat Jan 2013 #80
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #83
politicat Jan 2013 #94
Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #96
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #2
MineralMan Jan 2013 #3
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #5
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #6
HappyMe Jan 2013 #8
Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #9
CTyankee Jan 2013 #13
kentauros Jan 2013 #20
FrodosPet Jan 2013 #86
kentauros Jan 2013 #91
One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #21
RC Jan 2013 #31
Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #34
Sirveri Jan 2013 #72
RC Jan 2013 #81
Sirveri Jan 2013 #82
Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #89
Sirveri Jan 2013 #90
NoPasaran Jan 2013 #87
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #92
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #93
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #95
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #97
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #100
DetlefK Jan 2013 #10
lastlib Jan 2013 #44
DetlefK Jan 2013 #79
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #11
kentauros Jan 2013 #12
Javaman Jan 2013 #16
kentauros Jan 2013 #17
Sirveri Jan 2013 #73
kentauros Jan 2013 #75
Sirveri Jan 2013 #84
loyalsister Jan 2013 #74
ArnoldLayne Jan 2013 #14
slackmaster Jan 2013 #15
Recursion Jan 2013 #19
tridim Jan 2013 #30
Recursion Jan 2013 #32
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #50
kentauros Jan 2013 #77
MADem Jan 2013 #101
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #70
Romulox Jan 2013 #22
One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #24
GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #25
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #27
tridim Jan 2013 #28
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #57
tridim Jan 2013 #65
The Wielding Truth Jan 2013 #29
lastlib Jan 2013 #37
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #33
Freddie Stubbs Jan 2013 #35
lastlib Jan 2013 #36
NoGOPZone Jan 2013 #39
Buns_of_Fire Jan 2013 #42
kydo Jan 2013 #43
zipplewrath Jan 2013 #46
billbailey19448jj Jan 2013 #52
Brother Buzz Jan 2013 #54
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #55
Taverner Jan 2013 #66
dogknob Jan 2013 #67
MADem Jan 2013 #103
Mr.Bill Jan 2013 #71
MrSlayer Jan 2013 #76
cherish44 Jan 2013 #78
IDemo Jan 2013 #85
NoPasaran Jan 2013 #88
Glassunion Jan 2013 #98
quinnox Jan 2013 #99
snooper2 Jan 2013 #102

Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:44 AM

1. I love the metric system

The rules are so much more simple!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:50 AM

4. Just think of all of things that would need to be changed...

What is the metric equivalent of 1 teaspoon?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:57 AM

7. However,

even in countries that use the metric system, little things like that either have not changed, or their measuring tools have equivalents. Have a look at this site for an idea of how simple it is to switch, even in cooking:

http://www.companyscoming.com/cooking/measurement_tables/

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Response to kentauros (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:40 AM

38. Thanks for the chart...

I'm not opposed to changing the system...but I would need all new measuring spoons and cups. Not to mention the time it would take me to convert old recipes to the metric system...<sigh>

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:39 PM

45. From what I've seen

most people in other countries have measuring tools of both types, or they do take the time to convert recipes as they use them. It only takes a few minutes anyway, and has the added benefit of forcing you to read those amounts closely before going on to the rest of the instructions

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Response to kentauros (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:54 PM

51. I understand...

but I would still need something to measure the equivalent of a teaspoon, tablespoon or cup...I guess the last would be a scale? Oh well,
I'll deal with it if the time ever comes. I always read the amounts carefully...ever since the time, 42 years ago, I used 2 tablespoons of ground ginger instead of 2 teaspoons. The result was inedible...as a newly wed, I was crushed.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:10 PM

58. I tried a new biscotti recipe this year

and balked at the measurement for 1 tablespoon of lemon extract! I've never seen more than 1 teaspoon of extract for any cookie recipe, yet I used it anyway, thinking that I'd just start over if it was inedible.

It turns out the recipe was correct, even with the large amount of extract and lemon zest. I don't know why the flavor wasn't overpowering, only that it was just right

Our baking and pastry instructor in school told a story about how he was a visiting chef to some hotel restaurant, and didn't take the time to test the ingredients from the bins he used. When his cakes came out flat, he tasted them, and discovered his mistake. Instead of getting sugar from the bin, he'd measured out salt! Both ingredients looked exactly the same, and why he emphasized that we taste the ingredients to make sure we were getting the right ones

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Response to kentauros (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:19 PM

61. That's a funny story...

One thing I learned a long time ago is to add flavoring gradually, tasting all the time. I love to cook, don't do as much these days now that I'm divorced and the kids are grown and independent. Once in a while I get the urge and whip up something for my neighbors.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:38 PM

64. In cooking you can add flavoring and test as you go.

In baking, adding the flavoring is done at a certain step and it all goes in at once (usually after the creaming of the fat and sugar and/or after the eggs have been added.)

I'm single, yet I don't bake as often as I did many more years ago. Now that I've tried the "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day" recipe, I may be making more bread and bread-inclusive products at home. I just have to either freeze or give away some of what I make so it doesn't go bad

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:59 AM

18. And recipes are so much easier in grams/kilograms

And more accurate.

I'm in the process of converting all my favorite recipes to weight from volume.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:05 AM

23. Anyone that's ever taken baking or pastry classes

quickly learns that measuring by weight is more accurate. (There's also measuring by percent, but that's a weird system only used by bakers )

And using my normal method for measuring by weight last night showed me that I need to replace my old Cuisinart scale (it measured 3 Cups of water at 1# 9.25 oz!)

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Response to kentauros (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:46 AM

41. So you measure flour, sugar etc

by weight? I would have to buy a scale? Oh well....

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:52 PM

48. Scales are cheap - I got mine for $30

It does grams, kilograms, pounds and ounces, fluid measure as well. And you can tare it out (zero it) if you're adding multiple ingredients to a recipe.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:53 PM

49. My old scale is probably 15 years old

or older. I guess it's finally time to get a new one. And yes, measuring baking ingredients by weight is far more accurate than by measuring spoons and cups (other than tiny amounts, like less than a 1/4 cup.) With flour, it all depends on how compacted it is in the bag or container, and why you'll see some recipes ask you to gently spoon flour into the measuring cup. Otherwise, you'll get too much flour, even if the volume seems the same.

Here are some sites that sell scales, and there's always Amazon and the linke

http://www.sciplus.com/search.cfm/scategory/SCA/term/scale/srch.fp/1

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/20067-digital-kitchen-scale.aspx

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/24742-salter-nutritional-dietary-computer-scale-1406.aspx

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/28165-chefschoice-advanced-ultra-thin-digital-scale.aspx

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/25479-polder-digital-slim-kitchen-scale-ksc-350-95.aspx

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/26060-oxo-digital-scale-pull-out-display.aspx

Here's another rule we learned in school and is useful to all cooks and bakers:

The volume and weight of milk, eggs and water are all equal. That is

8 oz Milk = 8 oz Eggs = 8 oz Water

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Response to kentauros (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

53. Well, judging from the enthusiasm

I'm reading here, I will definitely begin the conversion process rather than waiting to be overtaken by a national change.

Thank you for the information and the links. I really do appreciate your taking the time to educate me.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:14 PM

60. I would say just do what you feel comfortable with.

If things don't change (and I suspect they won't) then you won't have wasted any effort. Or, try a recipe in metric, just to see if it's easier or comes out differently than what you know.

And you're welcome on the help and links. I like sharing information and expertise

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Response to kentauros (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:07 PM

56. Do you have a preference in these scales? n/t

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:11 PM

59. I haven't used any of them.

I'm going to have to do some research as well, probably going to the Consumer Reports site and see if they've done any reports on them.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:23 PM

62. I think the thing I like best about Amazon

are the customer reviews.... I will look there as well.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:32 PM

63. I noticed that when you look at the reviews on Chefs Catalog

that you can sort it by "Expert" reviews. That often helps the most in determining if a product is good or not.

If you don't make a purchase today, I'll let you know what I find out on Consumer Reports (I have to look when I get home as I don't have my password info here at work.)

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Response to kentauros (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:12 PM

68. Gret! And once again, thanks!

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #68)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:14 PM

69. You're welcome :)

I sent myself an email to remind me when I got home

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:43 AM

40. Really?

How are you going about it?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:50 PM

47. Weigh the ingredients on a metric scale

Then note the equivalents - And when it comes to halving or doubling or tripling the recipe it's very easy.
And I've got a lot of French cookbooks already in metric, though some of them do use teaspoons (cuillere) as a measure.
Also some American cookbooks are now coming with weight measurements alongside the volume measure. The Bouchon Bakery Cookbook is one like that.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:08 AM

26. Dry or liquid?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:31 AM

80. 5 ml.

A tablespoon is 15, a cup is 250.

All of the measuring devices I've owned have had both metric and Imperial markings -- mine are from Target or BBB, so entirely common.

And why would you have to convert your recipes? Just because the standard changes doesn't meant the metric cops are going to take away your measuring tools.

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Response to politicat (Reply #80)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:39 AM

83. My measuring tools are old...

and not marked with the metric equivalents. Until I went looking for new tools, I didn't know there are sets marked with both the Imperial and Metric... I'm so used to "planned obsolescence" I figured it would be one or the other.

I love it 'metric cops'. Your right, of course. However, someone else said metric is easier to use and you achieve better results...so I was thinking I'd make some changes. Also, I want to experiment with cutting recipes in half and I think it might be easier using the metric system.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:47 PM

94. Sorry... I think of my stuff as old, when really, it's not.

My kitchen stuff is about 12 years old (in most cases).

I use metric only at work because it's more precise when dealing with chemicals, so for me, it's second nature. I do find that my baking works much, much better with metric because I measure by weight rather than volume. Also, rice (250 grams of rice to 500 grams of water for long grain, 250 to 350 for short white) is more consistent when measured by weight.

The biggest advantage for me is that a gram of liquid weighs one milliliter, and vice versa, so I can just put a bowl on the scale and dribble rather than hoping that I've got my eye and the fluid level lined up.

I cut recipes in half all the time and the scale makes that much, much faster.

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Response to politicat (Reply #94)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 03:13 PM

96. LOL...

I didn't realize just how old my stuff is Well, I certainly deserve to update, don"t I? Thanks so much for letting me know I am on the right track with the recipe cutting! Someone else sent me DU mail with a list of scales to consider... I never even considered the advantages of not worrying about the eye/measure alignment issue...that alone makes a scale worthwhile.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:49 AM

2. Can't happen too soon.

(okay, not necessarily thrilled with the use of "retarded," but it is in reference to the system, not people... )

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:50 AM

3. So, how many kilovotes do we need?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:51 AM

5. HA!

25.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:53 AM

6. I'll plead ugly Americanism on this one.

The metric system is indefinitely more logical and sensical than our--um---Whatever System. But I love the idiosyncratic too much to ever give it up.

Our measurement system, along with our general apathy towards the sport of soccer (which we refuse to call football), is one of the few things where I have to admit I fall into the trap of being an ugly, lazy American.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:58 AM

8. I'll worry about this

when nobody goes to bed hungry and everybody has a bed to sleep in.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:59 AM

9. I don't mind kilometers but I HATE Celsius.

Why force people to use negative numbers unnecessarily? For everyday use Fahreneit is about as perfect a temperature scale as anyone could come up with.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:17 AM

13. I love Farenheit, too, for the same reason. I always had a problem with negative

numbers in Algebra (well, actually, just subtraction) and had to draw a Farenheit thermometer vertically and count in order to "get" it. It was crazy but it got me through College Algebra (as a Fine Arts major)...

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:02 AM

20. I hate Celsius, too.

But I love Centigrade!

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Response to kentauros (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:57 AM

86. You will have to pry the farenheit thermometer from my cold dead hands

But at least you will know how cold they are.



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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:46 AM

91. If it's a modern thermometer, it'll have a dual readout.

So, I'll know the centigrade temp of your dead hands, too.

Unless you're holding a speedometer

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:03 AM

21. Use Kelvin

Water Freezes at 273 and boils at 373.
Currently my office is 291

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:18 AM

31. Fahrenheit is more accurate then Celsius.

 

Between the freezing point and the boiling point of water, there are 100 divisions with Celsius. While there are 180 divisions with Fahrenheit. Almost twice as many divisions. Making it almost twice accurate.

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Response to RC (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:29 AM

34. Tell me about it.

Why artificially compress realistic daily temperatures into a smaller than necessary range?

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Response to RC (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:02 AM

72. Between any two numbers there are an infinite number of divisions.

So your point doesn't follow. If we use .1C instead of 1C we have 1000 divisions, not accurate enough and we can move the decimal place one more space. Even using 1/2 C we get more divisions.

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Response to Sirveri (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:50 AM

81. Digital thermometers, either C or F, normally have only tenth of a degree readouts.

 

Mercury or alcohol thermometers normally only have whole degrees.
They make Fahrenheit thermometers with hundredths or thousands of a degree divisions for laboratory work.
That still makes Fahrenheit almost twice as accurate as Centigrade.
Therefore, your explanation does not compute.

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Response to RC (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:34 AM

82. Now you're shifting the goal posts, mathematically they're equally accurate.

This is because the number of points between any two points is infinity.

Now if you want to talk equipment we can, however when you're talking about thousandths of a degree a factor of two is no longer relevant. .001C=.002F, you can't feel that, and since temperature is an average measure it doesn't actually mean anything since the material will have a natural deviation range drastically greater in comparison to that accuracy level, unless you have a remarkably stable and well insulated system.

Talking about thermometers, you can easily adjust the labeling, if it's important and add those .5C marks and take a similar amount of space (since there is typically a Fahrenheit scale on the opposing side). Do you care about the difference between 55F and 56F when you leave the house, I don't, I just put a coat on.

At the end of the day, if you need the accuracy, and you're willing to pay for it, it can easily be done. As someone who has machined a part down to an accuracy of .0002" I know that to be true. It certainly won't be cheap though, no matter what system you use. At the end of the day, they're all just arbitrary numbers anyways, and the only reason I prefer Fahrenheit is because I'm comfortable with it, but it's not inherently better, or worse.

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Response to Sirveri (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:13 AM

89. Fahreneit is inherently better for colloquial use,

because it reduces the need for arithmetic of decimals and negative numbers, which many people are not good at. Also I like that "100 degrees" sounds like a hot day and *is* a hot day.

For scientific purposes, Celsius and Kelvin are fine.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:45 AM

90. Colloquial use is dependent on the environ in which you were raised.

Tell a European it's 40 degrees out and he'll turn the AC on. Tell an American and he'll grab a coat. But it ultimately doesn't matter one way or the other, they're all just arbitrary numbers anyways. Why have the freezing and boiling points of water as the zero points? What if I decided to have the boiling and freezing point for steel (and separated them by 100 units). Then all our temps would be negative, but they'd still be the same value, and if we brought up 2 or 3 generations in that system they'd become quite fluent in it. Of course this is as good an argument for simply retaining the current system, since they ultimately don't matter, other than to facilitate communication between 'East and West', so to speak. At which point the question becomes, why the heck should we change instead of them?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:08 AM

87. Celsius plays into the hands of climate change deniers

A scorching 106 degree afternoon in Fahrenheit translates to a brisk 41 in Celsius. Zip up your jacket!

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Response to NoPasaran (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:58 PM

92. I lost neurons reading that.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 01:00 PM

93. LOL, here in Fargo, negative temps is normal January weather.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #93)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 02:07 PM

95. By the way, how stupid do you have to be to think negative numbers are "hard" or "confusing?"

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:10 PM

97. I know people who can't even do 12x2=24.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #97)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:11 AM

100. I am of the opinion that making accomodations for disabled people...

...is NOT the same thing as making accommodations for dumbasses.

One of those things is desirable and beneficial to society, the other is neither.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:09 AM

10. Accepting the meter would threaten the national sovereignty of the US.

How?
The original meter is a metal-rod stored in that socialist hell-hole FRANCE. If they decide to manipulate the meter, you can throw all of engineering and trade down the gutter. Society would collapse. The US would be at the mercy of a foreign country!
(You read it here first. Whichever right-winger brings that argument, stole it from me. )


What's next? ARAB numerals?
(Btw, terrorist sympathizers are already infiltrating our schools: "algebra" is an arab word.
Wait a minute! So is "alcohol"! They are everywhere!)

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:08 PM

44. I understand al-Gebra has weapons of math instruction....

in fact, there was teacher arrested at JFK airport for carrying a ruler, protractor, and compass at a security checkpoint.
al-gebra is clearly a terrorist organization--they refer to each other as x and y and z...

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Response to lastlib (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:26 AM

79. "F" to America!

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:12 AM

11. Give em a centimeter and they'll take a kilometer n/t

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:13 AM

12. What's interesting is that we already use the metric system

and don't seem to notice. For example:

2-liter drink bottles
Medicine in milligrams
Electricity in kilowatts
Computer drive capacity in gigabytes, and speed in gigahertz
Mechanical parts as for cars and other machinery
Money (all base-10)

There are probably other examples, but that's all I'm remembering.

At the same time, there would be professions and industries that would either be slow to convert or not at all:

Any industrial plant would be stupid to rebuild their operations just to adhere to the metric system, and replacing parts with metric pieces won't work, either. New plants could be designed around the metric system and replace whole systems where feasible.

Land surveyors and land professionals (think of those handling deeds) would be able to convert all those boundaries, but likely only at the request of the land-owners. Otherwise, all those documents will remain in standard measurements.

The key to making the metric system work or not is on just one word: Acceptance.

In other words, don't convert to the metric system in your everyday life. Rather, throw out the old and accept the new. Were people ever converting those two-liter drink bottle volumes in their thoughts to "2-qts, 7.25 oz"?

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Response to kentauros (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:57 AM

16. Shush with your sense talking. nt

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Response to Javaman (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:59 AM

17. okay, I'll be vewwy quiet...

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Response to kentauros (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:06 AM

73. The industrial plant and automotive sectors would be screwed by this.

Any good machinist knows 25.4mm = 1in. But do you really want to convert all the dials on all your equipment from .001" to metric? Abandon the SAE thread system and adopt the metric system. What about legacy hold overs that you still need to maintain and make parts for. No, it's not going to happen, such a change over would NOT be cheap.

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Response to Sirveri (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:37 AM

75. Yeah, I was getting at things like that :)

Although, I would suspect there'd be plenty of all-metric start-ups

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Response to kentauros (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:42 AM

84. I've heard that they've started making bolts with metric heads and SAE threads.

Or did I get that backwards...

As a machinist I was taught SAE primarily, so metric is strange and scary, but at the end of the day I just shift a lever on the lathe and deal with it. My big issue is that I don't fully grasp what a cm looks like. I know 25.4mm = 1in, but...

As for the start ups... I'm more concerned about the existing companies, economy on shaky ground, this could risk putting some of them under unless there was money for a change over. But why would they change over if their customers demand SAE? Government can say we're all using one system, I think they tried doing that back in the late 80's early 90's. Doesn't do much if everyone ignores them! At the end of the day all systems we've created are arbitrary, does it really matter what hodge podge of crazy stuff we use so long as it all works?

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Response to kentauros (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 04:37 AM

74. Medical record keeping

no more come to mind yet

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:18 AM

14. No I like our Imperial System.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:19 AM

15. That's been my pet issue for decades, but there's no way I'll sign that petition

 

I'm not willing to expose my real name on the Web over it.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:01 AM

19. Even the strictest teabagger will admit this is entirely within Congress's power

It says so right there in Article I.

That said, I hate cooking in metric.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:16 AM

30. Metric cooking is easy using weight.

It's more accurate too. You just need a kitchen scale.

And it's WAY easier to double, triple, quadruple, etc recipes in metric.

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Response to tridim (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:19 AM

32. But imperial volume units are based on commonly used amounts for cooking

And are usually very easy to quadruple, because you just move up to the next set of volumes usually.

I suppose metric is more accurate, but I cook by eyeballing.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:54 PM

50. Ah, but do you bake the same way?

It might work with flexible recipes like corn bread or soda bread, but once you get into cakes weighing ingredients is the way to go.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:40 AM

77. We might also look at it this way:

Cooking is more of an art in and of itself. The artistry in baking comes in the shaping and decorating, but not so much the recipes. For that, we become more like scientists, rigorously following a formula

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:14 AM

101. My great grandmother was a superb baker, and she never weighed a thing!

She made fine cakes and pies and did most of it by eye.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:12 PM

70. Those damn yooroopeeons don't seem to have a problem with that activity.

Or with any other, for that matter.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:03 AM

22. I'm not sure what "convert to the metric system" means in this context. Our gov't has used it for

decades.

Are we supposed to confiscate yardsticks or something? The US already uses the metric system.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:06 AM

24. Because Thermodynamics would be way to easy

Without the experience of having to work problems using both SI and British Steam Tables would lead to a flood of worthless, idiotic engineering graduates.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:07 AM

25. Signed, Facebooked and Tweeted.

And here's a and a rec.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:10 AM

27. Are you all to young to remember the first attempt at doing this?



It didn't go over then and it would be even harder to put it in place now.


Not that I am against it, just that it seems impractical to me. We really do have a few other things to focus on right now and considering the state of our educational system, creating even more for it to do seems foolish.


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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:14 AM

28. And while we're at it, UK, get with the program...

Stop using "stone" (which nobody understands) and move your steering wheels to the left side like most of the rest of the planet.

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Response to tridim (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:08 PM

57. Rest of the planet?

You mean like Australia and Japan? The UK drives on the left. As do several other countries. And is an island nation with no land borders with countries that drive on the right. There's not any reason to change.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:39 PM

65. Yea, they drive on the left because it's easier to wield a sword when you're on your horse.

That's the only reason. Tourist danger is a very good reason to change.

I'll say it again, get with the program UK, Australia and Japan.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:15 AM

29. I like that we have our own system of measure. It's not progressive... but it's us. Silly, huh?

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:39 AM

37. yup

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:21 AM

33. Any company that has international sales is already using the metric system

and/or the imperial system.

Company I used to work for started doing it at least 25 years ago.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:34 AM

35. Some soda is sold in 2-liter bottles, and cocaine is measured in kilos

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:38 AM

36. That's one I'm going to sign!!!

Liberia and Burma--the only other nations NOT to go metric. that puts us in some elite company, huh?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:41 AM

39. My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it. nt

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:57 AM

42. "They can have my yardstick when they pry it from my cold, dead..." nt

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:05 PM

43. or just flip it over

the metric stuff is usually on the other side.

but your line forced me to use my all purpose pledge cleaner, as my potato soap just went splat on the monitor "They can have my yardstick when they pry it from my cold, dead..."

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:49 PM

46. Whatever

I have to use both collections of systems extensively, and really have no preference for one over the other. My preference is for the one that is compatible with my data. These days most of my data and references are in US customary units, so I prefer working in that system. Change my references (most of them generated by the US government or their agents) and I'll change systems. For many industries, that'd be VERY expensive.

Most folks don't know it, but neither system is more "accurate" these days.. The US Customary is pegged to the metric system so they have, functionally, the same accuracy. Also, neither is a "system" in and of themselves, but really are collections of systems. The optimum is to have a single set of units that are always used so that conversions aren't necessary. It should also be a "self consistent" set (use Newtons and Kg since Newtons are Kg-m/sec^2).

A few other poorly known facts. Not all metric units are in "tens". Seconds are "metric" and still have 60 in a minute. And I still prefer "degrees" to "radians" even though they aren't part of a consistent set of units. And not all scientific disciplines "love" all metric units. AU's (Astronomical units) are still widely used. Also, there is a reason that the sytem of "12's" was created, and it does have its conviences, which is why it is still widely used, even in metric countries. In retail, 12 is a very "divisible" number. You can divide by 2, 3, and 4. Which means halves, quarters, thirds. You can't do that with 10 eggs, but you can divide a dozen eggs into thirds, quarters. This is also kind of important in a way in the carpentry world, which is why tape measures still tend to have halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, ect. (That actually has less to do with dozens, and more to do with a device called a "divider". You tended to call it a "compass" in elementary school).

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:58 PM

52. I hope this petition succeeds

 

I love the metric system far more than the US system, which is way outdated in my opinion. Besides, what other countries use our system anyway?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

54. Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do! We do!


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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

55. I don't see the need for this, really

legislating adoption of the metric system is not really going to catch on--it hasn't in Britain; road distances are still in miles, bridge clearances in feet and inches, ask someone how tall they are and the odds are they'll tell you in feet and inches, and even in things that have gone to metric labelling it's frequently the metric equivalents of imperial measures...go to a grocery and sausages are in 454g (one pound) packages, coffee is in 227g (eight ounce) bags, and so on. The metric system is already used where it needs to be (for international trade, in science and increasingly engineering), there's not really a significant need for the everyday person to switch.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:45 PM

66. YES! Here's to base 10~!

 

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:28 PM

67. All of these recent discussions about penis size will get interesting...

Measurements made in hundreds of units. You would think those dudes would be on board yesterday.

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Response to dogknob (Reply #67)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:32 AM

103. Good grief...I remember a TV commercial about a cigarette that was a silly millimeter longer!



The Chesterfield 101--if you skip ahead to 3:15 or so, you'll see a full, one minute commercial advertising the things!

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:15 PM

71. There are high school kids that don't know their multiplication tables.

But they all know how many grams are in an ounce.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:40 AM

76. I'll take the European health care system.

 

But they can keep the metric system. Not interested.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:43 AM

78. When I was in elementary school (70's and early 80s) we were taught the metric system

because supposedly that's what Americans would be using by the time we reached adulthood. Well maybe this new generation will be smarter than mine and be able to make the transition...

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:47 AM

85. I'm all for kilometers per Megajoule instead of MPG

Seriously. It's a more sensible measure of distance traveled per unit of energy for hybrids and EV's than the somewhat absurd MPGe (miles-per-gallon equivalent) now used.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:13 AM

88. Metrification? Bosh!

Powers of ten was fine for the Jacobins, but we live in the digital age. We should convert to a newer, binary system. And while we're at it, we should fund scientific research to develop humans with eight fingers instead of ten. Think of all the savings of material we would achieve on gloves!

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:47 PM

98. It screws up rocket science.

Inches/feet/yards are better for calculating the minutes of ark of a circle or sphere. This is handy when it comes to directing the flight of an object through space.

Flight is a three dimensional application. An object could conceivably move in any direction based on an imaginary sphere surrounding it.

If you observe the earth looking down from the North Pole. The circle of the earth can be divided into 360 degrees, of that, every 15 degrees we call an hour (those are the 24 division lines you see around a globe), you can take that hour and divide it by 60 giving you minutes and 60 again giving you seconds.

Here is where the Imperial system comes in handy. From a given point, a center if you will, draw a circle 100 yards around that point. At 100 yards, an inch along that arc is almost exactly 1 minute of arc. So from that center point if I want to change direction at 1000 yards by 10 inches I know that I need to aim my vehicle (or whatever) 1 inch at 100 yards or 1/2 an inch at 50 yards or 1/4 at 25 yards etc... The metric system deals with fractions of fractions when working within an arc.

The reason for this is simply that 360 degrees is evenly divisible by 36 (inches in a yard), 24 (hours in a day), 12 (inches in a foot), 60 (minutes in an hour and seconds in a minute). So when you work it out you get 1" = 1 minute at 100 yards.


P.S. it's all true (except for the part of screwing up rocket science, they will be fine with the metric system), I'm just pulling your chain. I love the metric system. Kilometers are easier to jog than miles and it feels like I'm accomplishing more when I go for a run.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:49 PM

99. screw the metric system, I'll keep the Imperial system

 

Kilometers instead of miles? Nonsense.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:20 AM

102. We use both, what's the problem with that?

I've got 14mm bolts on my truck and half inch...

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