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Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:55 AM

Is there any evidence that "rapists get raped in prison" ?

In context of the Steubenville case and otherwise, I have (not specifically on DU but in general) seen people suggest that payback will come in the form of prison rape.

As far as I know statistics do show that prison rape is rampant. But is there any evidence at all that the targets of this are most frequently violent criminals, rapists, child murderers and so on?

It seems to be much more logical that these exact violent criminals, once they end up in prison, will continue to be violent people and will end up being the ones doing the raping. If a person has a tendency for violent crime of one sort, say armed robbery, doesn't it usually come packaged with tendency to also commit other violent crimes?

It just seems implausible that if you put a rapist into a cell with, say, a non-violent drug offender, that the later will somehow emerge as exercising dominance over the former.



edit to clarify: I do not support prison rape as a means of justice. The aim of this post is clarification. It is a response to others who have suggested prison rape as a form of justice.

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Reply Is there any evidence that "rapists get raped in prison" ? (Original post)
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 OP
cali Jan 2013 #1
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #3
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #4
cali Jan 2013 #6
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #9
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #2
Bucky Jan 2013 #5
Prometheus_unbound Jan 2013 #7
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #11
lunatica Jan 2013 #8
Brickbat Jan 2013 #10
Silent3 Jan 2013 #12

Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:17 AM

1. this is a really ridiculous post.

I think that it might hinge on an individual's body type as much as anything else. Furthermore, it doesn't take much physical strength to murder a child or sexually abuse one.

Thirdly, rape is wrong no matter where and no matter who the victim is.

I find your post not only dumb but sickening.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:22 AM

3. +1

Seeing speculation about prison rape in GD is one of the times I really miss unrec.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:24 AM

4. Did you understand my post?

I am not implying that I support prison rape as a means of justice. Quite the contrary. I was making a commentary on the flood of "you will meet Bubbha" posts all over youtube and trying to clarify something.

And yes, I do think the hypothesis that a person with violent tendencies will act these out in various ways. Is there a correlation between armed robbery, domestic abuse and rape? I would bet so.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:53 AM

6. I didn't think you were advocating prison rape

but in light of the number of people here who do, I thought I'd post a reminder that all rape is bad.

I still think your op is silly- at best.

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:44 AM

9. To summarize: I think it will be the rapists doing the raping. In prison or otherwise.

Not the other way around.

I do not find this to be an implausible or far fetched hypothesis. The facts may differ in the end, of course.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:21 AM

2. I don't get the whole vengeful "yay prison rape" thing anyway

the point of putting rapists and paedophiles in prison isn't to see them raped in turn by other inmates, or beaten, it's to lock them away from society because they're not fit to be in it. The number of people who seem to relish the idea of certain classes of sexual offender being violated in prison is, frankly, kind of disturbing.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:28 AM

5. About 5 years ago, another DUer set me straight on joking about prison rape

I was just going along, making the same "Don't drop the soap" jokes as so many others. It's a socially programmed response, a cheap laugh. I don't read this OP as celebrating or joking about prison rape (unlike the other posters above in this thread). But their knee jerk condemnation of the OP (justified or not) reminds me of how coming to DU has given me a chance to be more enlightened about this topic--more interested in punishment than retribution.

So this thread is definitely not a waste of time. Giving others a chance to reconsider their own knee jerk responses to an uncomfortable and enraging topic is a good thing. Thanks for posting this question.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:30 AM

7. I don't think there are reliable statistics

Male rape is much underreported, especially in prison.
However, there is such a thing as a prison hierarchy, and those in the lower ranks are more likely to be abused.
Rapists are near the bottom, and child molesters at the very bottom.

Disclaimer: I do not approve of prison rape.

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Response to Prometheus_unbound (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:51 AM

11. Is this prison hierarchy verifiable?

Does it depend on what crime the person committed? I find it more logical that an hierarchy would come in form of a "pecking order" (no pun intended), i.e. those who show to be the most ruthless end up at the top, independent of what landed them in prison.

I suspect that this whole "prison inmates hate child molesters" thing is driven by a desire to believe in a just world and in a way romanticizes the thought processes of criminals. Why should a drug lord who has murdered several people and proven that he doesn't give two shits about human beings suddenly feel a desire to deliver justice against a particular brand of criminal based on "honor and nobility"?

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:41 AM

8. I get your question and I think that it is the violent inmates who rape

I think there are many who don't. Perhaps most inmates actually get raped.

But I do think that inmates will probably learn to be violent in order to defend themselves. And it's possible that many deaths come from victims of rape having revenge or knowing they can be victimized at any time. I see it as the same thing these high school star football players do. They rape and humiliate others to establish dominance. It's what all rapists are fundamentally doing, but when it's a group doing it the dynamics may be a little different. Prison has it's own culture and rules, different than in the outside world.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:50 AM

10. Anyone interested in learning about prison rape can go here:

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Response to redgreenandblue (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:59 AM

12. Whatever the level of occurance, we shouldn't let prison rape happen.

If we're actually counting on rape happening then it's de facto cruel and unusual punishment, only done with a wink and a nod for our own deniability.

Worse, rape is hardly going to be "fairly" (if the idea of "fairness" can even be used here) applied, since it's generally going to be the most violent criminals in a twisted prison hierarchy who are going to be dishing out the most rape, and many weaker inmates, like non-violent drug offenders, taking it.

If you (I don't mean you, the OP personally -- I get the impression you're against this) are the kind of person who hopes "justice" will get done when the people you love to hate get raped in prison, then have the courage of your convictions to fight to change the Constitution to allow "cruel and unusual" punishment in those cases where you think rape should be applied, and work out exactly how you'd like to see rape formally administered so only the "right" prisoners get raped, and only with the "appropriate" frequency.

Hopefully most people will see how horrible an idea that is when they consider what you'd have to do to make it happen in an official manner. If you don't want to make prison rape official punishment, but don't want to expend any effort to clean up prisons to prevent rape because you're secretly happy that prison rape happens, that's the cowardly and least equitable, hit-and-miss way for that brand of "justice" to be carried out.

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