HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » END THE WARS. TAX THE RIC...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:41 AM

 

END THE WARS. TAX THE RICH.

It's not fucking rocket science.

23 replies, 1894 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply END THE WARS. TAX THE RICH. (Original post)
cbrer Jan 2013 OP
Cali_Democrat Jan 2013 #1
Coyotl Jan 2013 #8
graham4anything Jan 2013 #2
Flatulo Jan 2013 #7
graham4anything Jan 2013 #9
dotymed Jan 2013 #13
Flatulo Jan 2013 #22
Flatulo Jan 2013 #18
dotymed Jan 2013 #23
Coyotl Jan 2013 #10
xchrom Jan 2013 #3
Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #4
wildbilln864 Jan 2013 #5
ReRe Jan 2013 #6
graham4anything Jan 2013 #12
dotymed Jan 2013 #14
ReRe Jan 2013 #16
Flatulo Jan 2013 #20
cbrer Jan 2013 #21
Demeter Jan 2013 #11
Octafish Jan 2013 #15
Demeter Jan 2013 #17
Taverner Jan 2013 #19

Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:48 AM

1. Also, cut the military budget by more than half

There are no serious threats to the United States that require a higher military budget than the next 15 countries combined.

It's a total waste. Use the money to build schools, infrastructure, hire teachers etc...

That's how you create jobs. Don't rely on the private sector which has been hoarding trillions over the last several years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:16 AM

8. Ding, ding, we have a winner! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:10 AM

2. Feds should set maximum prices for doctors. Doctors shouldn't charge $1000 when $50 is plenty

 

people always complain about drugs and hospitals and insurance but forget about the doctor themselves.
Make them have a set price total. That's it. Nothing more.

Like in France.
Pay it forward too.

In the end you save a fortune even if you pay a little more today, as nobody doesn't need a doctor at some point.

(and nurses should be paid as much as doctors, they are nicer and do more to make you better even when they push you to walk when you want to sit still).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:07 AM

7. That would pretty much spell the end of the medical profession.

Why on earth would any rational person spend 12 to 16 years and $750,000 getting a medical diploma just to earn 1/3 as much as a plumber, who never sets foot inside of an institution of higher learning?

And would you let a nurse operate on your heart or brain?

There's a very good reason doctors earn a lot of money. No one else has the training and skills that they have earned, through ridiculously hard work and expense and effort.

Even lawmakers earn close to $100 per hour, and look how dumb they are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flatulo (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:17 AM

9. No it wouldn't. Plenty of people to replace the greedy ones. France's system is 100% perfect

 

ours sucks.

but the doctors super pacs, like the NRA superpacs, fight any change.

by the logic above, it is the TEACHERS that should be paid, without them, doctors wouldn't even know how to count, let alone do whatever they learned.

It takes a teacher to make a person

(and public school teachers should be the highest paid profession.)

there is a reason so many doctors wanted to vote for mittens.

btw-if salaries were able to be federally set, it makes meaningless any what others make.
But plumbers serve a purpose. Without them, people would die from diseases as toilets wouldn't flush and sewers wouldn't work.

Doctors are like ball players. Overpaid and whiny and selfish.

I thought the point of doctors was that it was a noble profession, not a profit one.
Plenty of doctors from overseas could easily replace those here.
And the quality would be as good. As they are hungrier

Again, make schools free, then it won't cost that much.
so you got it backwards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:30 AM

13. When I lived in Indiana,

I was able (through diligence) to find Dr.'s who cared more about their patients than their bottom line. Family physician and heart surgeon. Both told me that if I lost my insurance, no worries.
Tennessee has been the total opposite. Here, next to an Army post, Everything is about money. I used to be able to call my Dr.'s in Indiana and get a prescription for my chronic conditions. Here, an expensive visit is required for anything including my maintenance meds. The medical care (IMO) is sub-par and the Dr.'s are arrogant...and I visited a few Dr.'s before committing.
Tennessee keeps passing laws that seem to be aimed at getting all chronic pain patients (I refuse back surgery based on personal evidence) to go to "pain management Dr.'s" (drug Dr.'s who treat patients like junkies). Most of the people here, that I know, have no insurance and have to have about $500.00 cash in hand, to see a Dr.
It is horrific. Heart patients who cannot afford a Dr. or prescriptions and we rank 50th in dental care....In "red state hell" the non-rich are expendable.
We have health departments whose Dr.'s cannot prescribe any kind of narcotics. if you are in pain without a pocket full of cash....suffer or die.
I know many people with teeth rotten to the gum and other conditions that require pain relief because they can't get their conditions fixed or have chronic conditions that require more than aspirin to control. They suffer and/or self medicate with alcohol. Most of these people know no other way. Most vote rethug and think I am some type of commie because I speak out about their plight......

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dotymed (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:19 PM

22. There is definitely a new Federal war - on prescription painkillers.

We have some similar circumstances. My back is also a complete wreck, but I'm avoiding fusion surgery because every single person I know, without exception, curses the day they had theirs performed. Thankfully most of the neurosurgeoons and orthopedic doctors here in Massachusetts are no longer jumping to do this surgery due to poor long-term outcomes. Instead, they're referring their patients to pain management centers.

I'm fortunate in that the center I go to and the doctor I see have been very compassionate and reasonable regarding dispensing opiates. But my primary care doctor let me suffer like a dog for 10 years because he would not prescribe even a mild opiate. Instead he had me taking 3200 mg of ibuprofen per day, which in addition to being completely ineffective for my pain, burned a hole in my stomach. Part of the problem is the DEA, who track every 'scrip written. If they think a doctor is writing too many, they'll be all over him like stink on shit. So most doctors are saying Fuck It, who needs the hassle?

It's a sucky situation, likely to get much worse before it gets better. Our wonderful (democratic) legislature is considering making all prescription information available to the DMV. So the next time you go to renew your license, good luck. And good luck getting to the pain center every month for refills and maintenance, because they've made it illegal to phone or fax these in, so you have to get your ass there every single month. Can't drive? Fuck you, take a cab. Can't afford a cab? Fuck you, walk. Can't walk? Fuck you, just suffer and die.

I don't blame the doctors for any of this. It's the DEA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:17 PM

18. You don't much believe in the law of supply and demand, do you?

All professions fill a need, or they wouldn't exist. It's just economics and the marketplace. When the demand drops, pay rates drop. When demand surges, pay rates climb.

The reason why my plumber makes $150 per hour is because when my boiler shuts down in the middle of a frigid night, he's pretty much the only guy in town who will come and fix it for me. He charges what the market will bear.

You make it sound like medicine is rather trivial and easy to pick up in one's spare time, and that people should practice it out of the goodness of their hearts. Well, my doctor's insurance bill is something north of $150,000 per year, or $50,000 more than you want to pay them. How much malpractice insurance does a teacher have to carry? Zero.

As for the nobility of the profession, you can keep that. I'd much rather have some greedy fuck with ability and skill work on my kid than someone who really, really wants to be a doctor because they have really good intentions but kill half their patients.

As far as teachers making more money than doctors, try finding a primary care physician these days. There is an acute shortage of them. Do you know why? Because they work typically 80 hours per week (that's two full-time jobs) and are on call pretty much every moment of their lives. My doctor often returns my phone calls at 10:00 at night after working a 16 hour day. But there is no shortage of teachers. Lots of people enter the profession because there is decent pay, union protection, early retirement with a good pension and health benefits. I'm not saying teaching is easy - it isn't. Nowadays with the risk of being shot added to the usual extra duties as parent and psychiatrist, its a tough job. But you can't compare it to the workload of an average physician, so the pay should not and never will be comparable.

As far as the French model, perhaps it's very good. But I bet you could find plenty of Frenchmen and women who would bitch about their care. It's human nature. And please - no system devised by man is 100% perfect.

I wish we did have a single-payer health care system in this country. But even if we do get one, I want to make damned sure we pay our doctors in a way that is commensurate with the skill and effort required to become one. I want only the smartest and most skilled people entering the profession.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flatulo (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:11 AM

23. Unfortunately, teachers also have to carry

"malpractice" insurance. They pay for the premiums through their Union dues. I believe they have $1 million in coverage. They can be sued by irate parents.....
It's all a scam.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flatulo (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:17 AM

10. In my state, lawmakers earn less than most workers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:13 AM

3. du rec. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:32 AM

4. Amen. K&R!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:31 AM

5. k & r!I'm all for that! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:33 AM

6. I concur

K&R

Balanced the budget in the shortest rant in history. Amazing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:20 AM

12. What would you do with all the workers that were just forced on the unemployment line?

 

Just wondering.
It's a nice rant, but in real life, it wouldn't solve any longterm problems even if it short term worked.

after all, if you take all the rich's money, it don't amount to as Bogie said, a hill of beans
and once their money is gone, what do you do next year?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:10 AM

14. A real progressive income tax (pre-reagan style)

would help our economy and our citizens immensely. Do you believe that our hugely disproportionate income distribution is not the major factor keeping our economy depressed? Do you believe that 95% of our income increase from last year should go to and stay in the hands of the top 5%?The elite saw their wealth soar as productivity increased, yet the workers actually earned less. Do you think this is sustainable? You really don't understand how income inequality destroys our economy and enslaves our citizens?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:37 AM

16. Well, let me see....

...a hypothesizing reply to your question... How long did it take to build this MIC? Let's say everything from 1950. That's 63 years. Say phase it all out in 35 years, if we start now. If we could get this renewable energy industry going, many of them could transfer over to that field. And I'm not saying phasing every ounce of it away. Leave enough to support our National Security without all the largess.

And there is largess, as you do admit that the MIC are the rich ones. The ones who have juiced our society dry. It was such a great thing, wasn't it? It was so attractive & innocent when it all started. It produced jobs. and made the MIC owners exorbitantly rich. You know, they got us into this, now maybe they need to get us out of it. There's never an exit strategy, is there?

"Their riches don't amount to a hill of beans." Now that is rich in itself. I, personally, wouldn't have their filthy money if they gave it to me. My life doesn't revolve around money like theirs does. We could damn sure put their money to work, though, now couldn't we? We built this infrastructure not only for the People, but for business too. This is now a pothole country, thanks to the MIC. Pipes bursting all over our country. I have relatives who live in Cincinnati and there's a bridge over there that's getting ready to fall into the Ohio River. They will drive miles and miles out of their way in order to not drive across that ratchety dangerous bridge. There's a major bridge like that in Louiville, KY, too. But I think (not sure) that they are building a couple more bridges, or at least in the planning stages. Yeah, their riches amount to more than a hill of beans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:05 PM

20. Is love to see all those engineers and scientists put to work developing wind and solar and

geothermal. As it stands now, we're losing ground very quickly to the Chinese.

Every dollar that we send over there for shitty and shoddy goods they turn around and reinvest in alternate energy. They are already the leading producers of solar panels, by quite a wide margin, and they are turning to wind now, where they're undercutting European and American manufacturers big time with their slave labor wages.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:12 PM

21. Those are good, valid, and important questions.

 

It's my view that the Progressive philosophy provides solid, workable answers.

The OP is a start, not a finish. Ways to create industry? Provide jobs?

We need to solve Global Climate change. We also need refinement and better marketing of alternative energy sources. We fucking need to improve the infrastructure in the United States. We also need to improve techniques (new technology?) for feeding the world as our population grows.

As we get on a path to moving the human race forward, we're going to run low on resources. So let's look forward (progress?) and put our Navy in space. As explorers and researchers. Not as an Imperialistic arm of the American government. Let's invite the worlds greatest minds to come, and start moving outwards. The lack of an effective means for providing the constant thrust needed for interstellar travel might provide some jobs for a while too. The "privatization" of our space program bodes ill for space travel being made into a resource for the race. But we can fix that.

I'm up for ideas. Or having holes blown in the solutions I propose.

But JESUS people. Our actions will help determine our future. And our kids future. The planets future. WTF?!?! We are many times more powerful than any political party that withers when the light of truth is shined on it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:19 AM

11. And shut down the failed banks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demeter (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:33 AM

15. Nationalize.

Same for Defense and Energy industries. Share the wealth from the natural resources.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Octafish (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:23 PM

17. AMEN!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:18 PM

19. Amen

 

Kill the empire

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread