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Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:53 AM

Are semi-automatics really used for hunting?

Doesn't the spray of bullets destroy the target, including the hide and the meat?

Is it a "sport" when you use a semi? Isn't it akin to shooting fish in a barrel?

Seriously.

92 replies, 9549 views

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Reply Are semi-automatics really used for hunting? (Original post)
Justice Jan 2013 OP
former-republican Jan 2013 #1
Kaleva Jan 2013 #24
Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #27
Robb Jan 2013 #2
cantbeserious Jan 2013 #4
Robb Jan 2013 #22
cantbeserious Jan 2013 #23
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #88
geek_sabre Jan 2013 #3
intaglio Jan 2013 #13
geek_sabre Jan 2013 #18
Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #21
Go Vols Jan 2013 #5
former-republican Jan 2013 #6
NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #20
jmg257 Jan 2013 #7
Oneka Jan 2013 #8
madville Jan 2013 #9
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #10
BainsBane Jan 2013 #49
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #50
BainsBane Jan 2013 #51
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #53
BainsBane Jan 2013 #56
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #58
BainsBane Jan 2013 #59
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #73
BainsBane Jan 2013 #77
pipoman Jan 2013 #65
BainsBane Jan 2013 #68
pipoman Jan 2013 #70
BainsBane Jan 2013 #72
pipoman Jan 2013 #74
BainsBane Jan 2013 #79
pipoman Jan 2013 #86
BainsBane Jan 2013 #87
pipoman Jan 2013 #90
Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #11
Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #12
Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #25
Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #26
Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #39
sir pball Jan 2013 #40
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #14
Ligyron Jan 2013 #15
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #16
tradecenter Jan 2013 #17
samsingh Jan 2013 #19
PavePusher Jan 2013 #71
samsingh Jan 2013 #76
Evasporque Jan 2013 #28
tularetom Jan 2013 #78
99Forever Jan 2013 #29
hack89 Jan 2013 #36
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #38
stumpremover462 Jan 2013 #30
Comatose Sphagetti Jan 2013 #31
derby378 Jan 2013 #32
brewens Jan 2013 #33
Comatose Sphagetti Jan 2013 #43
hack89 Jan 2013 #34
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #35
cleanhippie Jan 2013 #37
sir pball Jan 2013 #41
krispos42 Jan 2013 #42
cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #44
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #45
arely staircase Jan 2013 #46
Xithras Jan 2013 #47
hootinholler Jan 2013 #48
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #52
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #54
firehorse Jan 2013 #55
Shrek Jan 2013 #57
Dr_Scholl Jan 2013 #60
LWolf Jan 2013 #61
hack89 Jan 2013 #62
LWolf Jan 2013 #63
hack89 Jan 2013 #64
LWolf Jan 2013 #69
sir pball Jan 2013 #82
LWolf Jan 2013 #85
wercal Jan 2013 #80
LWolf Jan 2013 #84
sir pball Jan 2013 #83
datasuspect Jan 2013 #66
pipoman Jan 2013 #67
Recursion Jan 2013 #75
Undismayed Jan 2013 #81
sir pball Jan 2013 #89
madville Jan 2013 #92
SpartanDem Jan 2013 #91

Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:55 AM

1. They don't spray

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:37 AM

24. They are quite cabable of doing that.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:45 AM

27. after being modified, I would be surprised if hunters did this

I see the ATF also banning these soon as they did the previous version with the spring assist

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:56 AM

2. They are clearly used for hunting children, where the meat isn't being kept.

Whether it's proper to use them for hunting game is really academic at this point in history.

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:00 AM

4. Spot On - Well Said!

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:34 AM

22. Of course no one from the gunner camp wants to talk about this.

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Response to Robb (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:36 AM

23. Well - Using Johnathan Swift As A Model - All Gun Owners Could Be Required To Eat Gun Crime Victims

eom

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Response to Robb (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:01 AM

88. +1

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:57 AM

3. there is no "spray" of bullets

with a semi-automatic gun. "Semi-automatic" means one bullet comes out every time you pull the trigger.

Seriously.

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Response to geek_sabre (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:13 AM

13. and you can pull the trigger 2 - 3 times per second

Seriously

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Response to intaglio (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:25 AM

18. Depends on your proficiency.

I define "spray" much like one might "spray" an aerosol can. I press the button once, and the spray continues to come out until the can is empty, or I release my finger. A fully-automatic weapon is the same. A semi-automatic weapon only releases one bullet per pull of the trigger.

How fast I can pull the trigger doesn't affect the action/mechanics of the tool.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:32 AM

21. I have shot deer with a semi-auto.

I didn't fire it at a rate of 2-3 per second. Each shot was aimed as best I could. The advantage of a semi-auto in hunting is that you don't have to work the action between shots. That means that you can do a little better at keeping a target, such as a running deer, in your sights, particularly if you're using a scope. With a bolt action, for example, you may get only one shot because the action is slow to reload and you generally can't do it without moving the rifle out of alignment with the target, which means that you then have to re-find it in your scope. That is not as easy as it sounds to someone unfamiliar with hunting, because the scope actually has a very narrow field of view.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:01 AM

5. yes

they are used for hunting.Most of my shot guns are semi auto,3 shots per 3 trigger pulls with the plug in,5 if not, then reload.

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Response to Justice (Original post)


Response to former-republican (Reply #6)


Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:03 AM

7. Yes. Since they only fire 1 round for each trigger pull, there is no difference

vs other repeating arms (bolt action, lever action), other then a quicker more convenient follow-up shot.

Also, recoil is often reduced due to part of the force of the fired round being used to cycle the action.


edit spelling

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:05 AM

8. Semi automatics

Are indeed used for hunting. I use one to hunt deer. Though a semi auto allows for a slightly faster , follow on shot, to quickly finish off a wounded animal, a "spray of bullets" from a semi auto rifle, doesn't happen. One trigger pull = 1 bullet sent downrange.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:06 AM

9. We have a few semi-auto hunting rifles

Have Browning BARs in .270 and .243 and a Remington .243. They have 5 round magazines.

I wonder if you have this image of people spraying from the hip without aiming, it doesn't work like that. One pull of the trigger is one shot and usually that's all you need for a deer or a hog.

Some will argue that a bolt action rifle is more accurate but in most situations that difference is negligible.

Pump and lever actions can cycle/have a rate of fire not much slower than a semi-auto.

As far as using an AR-15 for hunting, it's not much different or anymore lethal than any other .223 rifle, plus Florida limits magazines to 5 rounds when hunting.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:07 AM

10. "Spray of bullets" from a semiautomatic? You have a lot to learn about guns

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:13 PM

49. Why?

Why does any one need to learn how to kill? This isn't biology or Shakespeare. It's the machinery of death. Civilized human beings have no need to spend their lives practicing how to kill each other. Those writing the legislation need to know the particulars of gun mechanics. All the rest of us need is human decency to support the bill.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:18 PM

50. It has nothing to do with killing. It has to do with the mechanical operation of a machine.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:20 PM

51. A machine that kills

And which I have no purpose for, not being a killer.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #51)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:27 PM

53. So you don't let facts get in the way or your prejudices.

the original OP was about semiautomatics and hunting.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #53)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:35 PM

56. And?

You insisted we all need to learn about guns, as though there was some virtue in spending one's days thinking about and practicing how to kill. We do not need to know about guns. I explained quite clearly why. If a person plans on hunting, obviously they need to choose the right riffle. The authors of legislation need to know which guns to ban. The rest of us, as moral human beings, only need to support laws that ban guns, clips, magazines, and drums that facilitate mass murder. The NRA talking points are tiresome. A view of knowledge that revolves around an intimate knowledge of the machinery of death is perverse.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:39 PM

58. If you are against A and not B and can't differentiate between the two that is your problem.

I consider the extremists at either side of the question the same.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #58)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:47 PM

59. You response positions yourself as an extremist

That you so object to my posts indicate you oppose restrictions on assault weapons and extended magazines. Am I wrong about that? There is nothing extremist about my views. I conform with the vast majority of the American public on this, and even the majority of gun owners. The vast majority of Democrats support such restrictions, as do the majority of Republicans. The only political demographic that does not is the Tea Party.

http://www.dailykos.com/polling/2012/12/18/US/148/DON5k


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Response to BainsBane (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:55 PM

73. Now you sound even more ludicrous.

Show me where I supported extend capacity magazines or assault weapons. And calling me a teabagger would be an insult but I consider the source.
Anyone that knows me would crack up at that allegation.

Unlike you, I don't see the world as all black or all white and if I talk about something I try to at least know a little about the subject. All I pointed out was that the OP was erroneous in stating that a semiautomatic "sprayed bullets" . And I was not the only one in this thread. YOU're the one that turned that statement into something it was not. Before you accuse someone of being extremist, take a good hard look in the mirror.
Good night.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #73)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:46 PM

77. I asked you if that was the case

I said your hostility to my posts indicated to me that was the case. If you were to say that is not your position, I would believe you. Yet for some reason, you haven't chosen to say that. I don't see why you should have found my previous posts so objectionable if you are in favor of some gun reform.

Nor did I call you a Tea bagger. I pointed you to a poll that showed the only political demographic that opposes such restrictions is the Tea Party. If you took a few minutes to read through the poll, you would see that point is entirely factual.

You are the one who suggested I was extremist because I said I wasn't interested in spending my time practicing how to kill people. Why is that? I am tired of the constant NRA talking point that we need an intimate knowledge of guns to have an opinion. That is pure propaganda. Must you have a PhD in economics to comment on tax policy? Do you need to be fluent in Arabic and Hebrew and have a doctorate in international relations to have a view on US policy in the Middle East? I certainly know all semiautomatic weapons don't spray bullets (though some can be modified to do just that), but I also think there are far more productive things to do with my time than practicing how to kill people. I have no need to kill anyone, and there is no virtue in preparing myself to do so.

You gun people are incredibly touchy. Becoming emotional doesn't advance your argument. It only highlights its weakness. Perhaps if you spent more time on actual education rather than playing with guns you wouldn't feel so outgunned in discussions of public policy.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #49)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:51 PM

65. By not understanding the subject

you will never be happy with the reality of what can and cannot happen legislatively without a constitutional amendment. You will hear and maybe be convinced it's the NRA boogieman when in fact it is a much less sinister issue.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #65)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:31 PM

68. so your solution is that we should all spent our time

practicing to kill great numbers of people? I think I'll spare my soul, thanks anyway.

The NRA isn't a bogeyman. They are evil incarnate. The profit from mass murder ensure that criminals retain full access to weapons. The NRA also works to elect Republicans.

I've provided several responses below to what exactly I need to know. How to engage in mass murder is not among them.

Given that you insist intimate knowledge of a subject is essential to have an opinion, I assume you wouldn't comment on economic or tax policy without a PhD in economics, or venture an opinion on the Middle East without fluency in Arabic and Hebrew, as well as a doctorate in international relations. That level of expertise is all useful and contributes to the world. Guns do not. They kill, precisely as designed. I don't think I'll add mass murderer in training to my resume.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #68)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:46 PM

70. I don't care what you do...

or if you are satisfied with what actually does happen, just know you are not going to like what happens IF anything happens at all..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #70)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:52 PM

72. I'll be satisfied when the rate of gun violence goes down

closer to levels in other industrialized nations, and I will do whatever I can to make that happen. The Obama administration is working on a series of efforts that could be effective, primarily in regard to tracking guns used in violent crimes--something that elements like the NRA dedicated to protecting criminals oppose.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:10 PM

74. Do you care about violence in general, or is "gun violence"

your only concern? Are you willing to address the state of mental health services and addiction services? Or are all of your concerns hardware related? How about the war on drugs? Any acknowledgement that violent crime could be reduced dramatically with drug policy changes? Or is it just the guns?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #74)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:59 PM

79. of course

I believe many of those are important. Gun proponents are fond of saying guns are not the cause of gun violence. That is certainly true, but they are an extremely efficient means by which it is carried out. Guns are designed to kill, and they perform very efficiently. Violent crimes of all kinds are horrific, but guns make the crime far more likely to result in death--the worst of all outcomes.

Statistics show that addiction/alcoholism is involved in somewhere around 36% of all violent crimes. Mental illness is about 4.5%, the vast majority of which are suicides.
Better mental health services are key. Addiction is a deep social problem, and I don't know how that can best be handled. Surely creating an industrial prison complex around the problem has not proved effective. I myself refuse to engage in any illegal drug use because of the role of drugs in mass murders in Mexico and the US. That is blood I do not want on my hands.

But I see nothing sacrosanct about guns, and the level of protection they have in US society is obscene. Even with Heller, the Second Amendment doesn't require the privileged position enjoy in our society. The gun lobby has succeeded in overriding the First Amendment in defense of their financial interests. ACA forbids doctors from writing down any information about guns, and in FL a doctor faces jail time if he or she asks a patient about guns. Gun research has been illegal in this nation for decades. As a historian, I see a striking parallel between the nineteenth-century Slave Power and modern-day Gun Power, something Ta-Nehisi Coates has written about in the Atlantic. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/the-nra-and-the-positive-good-of-maximum-guns/266571/

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:31 AM

86. Existing laws aren't being enforced

why do we need new laws which won't be either?

The Brady Act requires background checks through the NICS for any new gun purchase, guns sold by FFL dealers, and guns sold over state lines. When the FFL calls NICS, NICS either approves the sale or declines the sale. When a sale is declined, it usually means that someone who is prohibited from owning a firearm is attempting to purchase one. Further, before the FFL can call the NICS, the prospective buyer has to fill out a form #4473. This form asks questions about the buyers eligibility to purchase. "Have you ever been convicted of a felony", "are you under a restraining order or protection from abuse", "have you been convicted of domestic violence", "have you been involuntarily committed for mental health reasons", etc. If the buyer answers yes to any of these questions, the FFL will not even call NICS, they will decline the sale. If the buyer lies on the 4473 (a violation under penalty of perjury) and the FFL calls NICS, NICS will likely decline the sale. Less than 5% of the thousands of declined purchases are even investigated. Now the FBI and BATFE knows that a person who is barred from possessing firearms is actively trying to acquire one, yet nobody even tries to contact the person, investigates, or tries to determine if the person is a risk...every day the feds are handed the names of criminals trying to buy a gun and nobody cares. What makes you think any new laws will be enforced?

Gun research has been illegal in this nation for decades.

No, gun research isn't illegal, it just isn't funded publicly..firearm statistics are funded federally through the CDC, FBI, DOJ, BJS, BATFE, and other agencies. "Research" and "studies" can and are biased, statistics compilation, not so much. There are many private organizations who research all aspects of firearm statistics quite legally.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #86)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:40 AM

87. Enough

Bullshit. You ask about ways to restrict violence and then respond by showing you have No interest in doing anything. All meaningful research is funded by the govt. It's the same research that has produced the internet, pace makers, and advanced prosthetics. I happen to know a great deal about federally funded research since I make my living from it. So-called biased research ( what a sophomoric concept) does not make it beyond the rigorous review standards to qualify for federal funding. That you defend that kind of restriction on free speech and public health studies is thoroughly repulsive.

Private gun sales are not subject to background checks because gun companies profit from Selling guns to criminals. You see for no need to change that. Even 70% of NRA members want that changed, but you are to the right of them. The NRA restricts the enforcement of law, prohibits tracking of guns, and restricts the first amendment. The more you write, the weaker your argument gets. Keep it up and no one is going to give a fuck about your right to bear arms. No one is more effective at demonstrating the need for dramatic gun control than you and your fellow gungeoneers. You people have done more to pierce the fallacy of concerned and law abiding gun owners than even the mass murder of children. If you lent yourselves out to the Brady campaign, the nation would quickly rally to support dramatic and comprehensive gun control. Enough of your bullshit. Consider yourself my mortal enemy.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #87)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:17 AM

90. Silly tantrums is what will result in no answers.

You know nothing about what I want, and /or believe are even possible constitutionally without a constitutional amendment. I have posted my beliefs about private sales here. To say, "Private gun sales are not subject to background checks because gun companies profit from Selling guns to criminals.", doesn't even make sense. Private sales are always and only used gun sales. How do the gun companies benefit from people selling their used guns to other private citizens of the sellers home state? They don't, therefore why would they care?

Even 70% of NRA members want that changed, but you are to the right of them. The NRA restricts the enforcement of law, prohibits tracking of guns, and restricts the first amendment.

It can be changed, and I have often stated I would support a change. It must be done constitutionally and the "commerce clause" has always been what has kept the issue from making it out of committee to the floor even when the committee is chaired by Democrats. The first step is enabling a process for background checks on private sales. No such process currently exists. Most states, especially in the current financial climate, will be willing to fund a background check system in their state for private sales. They can do that now, and only a couple fund it. The system is in place, NICS, just access to the system is flawed.

You stated in post #79 "Gun research has been illegal in this nation for decades.", I simply pointed out that this statement is patently false.

No, what is going to keep solutions from being reached is people in real life hitting the ignore button rather than reasoned discussion, and presentation of outright lies and misinformation as truth, and proposals of complete and total disregard for constitutional possibility...there is common ground, it isn't going to come without respectful dialog.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:08 AM

11. Semi-automatics are used for hunting and don't spray bullets

this is a semi-automatic:



So is this:

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:12 AM

12. Yes, especially shotguns.

The Browning Auto 5 probably the most famous back in the day, now overtaken by the Benelli. Most hunting rifles (with the exception of the .22) are lever action or bolt action because they are more accurate, but some do use semi auto rifles. They do not "spray". You must still pick a target (usually moving), lead, and fire; and no, it is not like shooting fish in a barrel. Seriously, You watch too many movies.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:39 AM

25. The difference in accuracy between a bolt & semi-auto is academic in the field.

You can't aim either kind of gun well enough in a hunting situation for the difference in accuracy to matter.

A super-good bolt-action, fired from a bench by an expert, will group within maybe 1/2 inch at 100 yards. My old Remington 742 carbine will do about 2" at that distance. The reason I have missed deer has nothing to do with the accuracy of the rifle, and everything to do with the fact that my aim was off.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:45 AM

26. Maybe,

I grew up out west where 250 yard shots on antelope and mule deer were considered "typical". In Alaska, 300 yard shots on caribou were not uncommon. The other main difference of course, is that magnum rounds are typically not chambered in semi-autos, and I (and many other western hunters) will not shoot anything smaller than a .300 Win Mag.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:40 AM

39. Yes, those hunting situations are entirely different from short-range brush-busting.

I can certainly appreciate the desire for a long-range round in a strong bolt action.

Semi-autos have a number of limitations. They are generally chambered for nothing stronger than a .30-06 because of chamber pressure & action strength issues, they are inherently somewhat less accurate, and you are limited in the variety of handloads that will work in them. You have to keep the chamber pressure within certain limits in order for the action to work properly; too strong or too weak a load can cause it to jam. For that matter, semi-autos tend to throw the empty cases all over the place upon ejection so you have to search around for them, unlike bolts, which allow you to slowly extract the spent casing & grab it with your fingers to save for reloading.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:41 AM

40. My semi-auto is actually my most accurate rifle

I've seen it do ~1/3" for 5 shots at 100 yards in more skilled hands than mine. I can manage about 1/2-3/4 with it, and a couple of my (much more powerful) bolt-actions as well. 2 inches@100 is fine for 95% of hunting, sure, but I occasionally shoot across farm fields in Louisiana, 300-ish yards, where 6 or 7 inch accuracy is getting marginal. Still, I agree it's an academic point.

Benchrest shooters go quite a bit below 1/2 inch though...I think the world record is like 0.118 inches or something!

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:14 AM

14. Yes, but not in that manner.

Most hunting-oriented semi-automatics hold the same number of rounds as a bolt-action hunting rifle (usually five). the hunter will in the large majority of cases fire only one round, regardless of how the rifle operates. A typical semi-auto hunting rifle looks like this:



FWIW, I'm not a hunter (not since I was 13), but I know quite a few and shoot with some of them at the range. They tend to be very good shots, and very concerned with making a clean, humane kill. Hunting's not for me, but the majority of hunters I know give me no reason to object to the sport.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:16 AM

15. If you never enjoyed the challenge of cutting down a running rabbit with a 22 semi


You missed some serious fun when you were a kid

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:16 AM

16. For many years, both shotguns and rifles

Note that does not mean with unlimited magazine capacity. 3-5 rounds normally, depending on the state and the game. Varmints get treated differently that elk.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:18 AM

17. Yes.

 

The AR patterned rifle is a popular hunting rifle and no, it doesn't spray bullets. It's one bullet downrange per one trigger pull.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:29 AM

19. by cowards or butchers maybe

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Response to samsingh (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:52 PM

71. I think the OP was asking for actual facts and evidence.....

 

not ignorance and bigotry.

Thanks for playing.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #71)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:20 PM

76. of course. thanks for the consistency.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:46 AM

28. "Varmint" Hunting guns....I was familiar with.

AR-15s were used for coyotes but were considered overkill and not "sporting". sheepers and ranchers may of used them for herd protection from predators but in general "Varmint" hunters looked fr more elegant and specialized guns.

Varmint being: Coyote, Jackrabbits, Prairie Dogs...

Typically a coyote/Prairie Dog hunt is more a stalking and still hunt from a distance. With shots out beyond 150-300 yards.

Jackrabbit is a walking flush hunt with shots taking from a standing position with repeting .22 cal rimfire rifle. I used a Marlin 29a Golden Mountie lever action with a 4x scope or hunting peep. The idea was to get the rabbit as it flushed and accelerating on the hindlegs before it reached top cruising speed started to bound. Usually you had three seconds or so. Remington semi-auto .22s were a popular Jackrabbit gun. They were light and held 15 or so rounds of .22 long rifle cartridges...I found though they jammed on "Yellow Jackets" and CCI Stingers the higher velocity rounds.



Marlin 39a Golden Mountie Lever Action with hunting peep. (this was my .22 of choice I had with me at the ranch in South Dakota)

Varmint rifles where I grew up were .220 swift (being the more powerful), .22 magnum usually bold action.



Classic Varmint Rifle, heavy bull barrel and large aperture scope with variable power.



Classic Remington Nylon 66 .22 Auto....was a very popular rifle for snap shooting Jackrabbits on the run in South Dakota.

On Edit: Notes on safety Level actions were a safe gun to use from horseback and 4 wheeler, when stored in a scabbard and drawn you could lever the the round into the chamber and fire. If you put the rifle back in the scabbard the spent round remained and required you to lever the action for a new round. The hammer also had a saftey catch to prevent a blow to the hammer from firing a chambered round. Typically though I would not lever the spent round...and always lever a fresh round in when I went to use the rifle. The automatic always had a fresh round and one has to use the trigger safety to prevent accidental discharge. So semi-autos were in general considered more dangerous to carry in the field.

ON Second Edit: Still hunting varmints was positioning yourself in a blind or hide or laying prone with a sandbag rest, then glassing a area and picking a shot. Prairie Dog shooting was essentially done as such, as was fox and coyote....with calling added (dying/wounded rabbit call)

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Response to Evasporque (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:54 PM

78. This is my varmint rifle of choice



Ruger Mini 14 .223 because a lot of the varmints around here are coyotes. Too wimpy for a deer rifle and too much for gopher and rabbits.

And yes you do have to think when you are using an auto loading firearm. But if you aren't thinking you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

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Response to Justice (Original post)


Response to 99Forever (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:28 AM

36. He asked a question. He got answers.

isn't that why he posted - to learn something about an important subject?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:36 AM

38. 99Forever is no longer able to respond in this thread.



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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:53 AM

30. Yes I use my semi auto shotgun for hunting.

There is no spray of bullets, just little super tiny pellets.

What concerns me is I was given some links from a gun nut a work and after reading the proposed bills, my shotgun (super pretty teknys gold), revolver (my cutie s&w lady smith), and revolver styled rifle (rossi circuit judge) would be illegal. Senator Feinstiens bill would redefine my 3 guns as assault weapons, because they all fire 1 shot per trigger pull. I am going to write her and ask her to make the bill not make revolver style, and semi auto guns listed as assault weapons.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:10 AM

31. Yes, but I don't much care for semi-autos for hunting...

Countless times while in the tree stand I've heard yahoos blast repeatedly at a deer. They didn't have a good shot in the first place and figured the 'spray and pray' method might work - a complete bullshit technique which only contributes to wounded animals. Deer hunters, you know what I'm talking about.

I remember a seminar I went to many years ago held by Roger Raglin, who puts out videos about deer hunting.

During Raglin's presentation, a man asked what was best for deer; a pump shot gun or a muzzle loader. Raglin replied he liked a muzzle loader better. Perplexed, the man said, "But, you only get one shot!"

"You only NEED one shot!" replied Raglin.

Words of wisdom.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:12 AM

32. For close to 200 years, they have...

...ever since Lewis and Clark took one of the world's first semi-automatics into the wilderness.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:24 AM

33. I could see using a semi-auto with open sights hunting in heavily wooded or brushy country.

Maybe some place where you'd be more likely to spot a deer at close range and take a couple of shots at a moving target. In a case like that, you wouldn't get a chance to fire very many well aimed shots.

I've never seen any of my Idaho hunter friends use anything but a bolt action hunting rifle with a scope. My dad hunted with a WWI era Springfield 30-06 up into his 50's. That had original military peep sights. I saw him take down a few mule deer at a respectable distance with it.

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Response to brewens (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:15 PM

43. With all respect...

To "... take a couple of shots at a moving target" is a bad idea in the first place.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:25 AM

34. For almost a hundred years. nt

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:26 AM

35. Semi autos do not spray

They are not automatics ie a machine gun.

Also, as other posters have said, semi auto hunting rifles have been around for a very long time.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:28 AM

37. Well, thanks for show the world that your are 100% ignorant on just what semi-auto means.

Read a book. Educate yourself. Anything. Just stop being ignorant.

Seriously.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:47 AM

41. It's only a "spray" if you..

..start pulling the trigger as fast as you can, which I can't see even the most idiotic good-ol-yokel doing (well, maybe, but not a general case). It's the same physical actions as a bolt: exhale slowly, stabilize crosshairs, and smoothly squeeze the trigger - hell, if you've learned and practiced properly, by the time your sights have settled back in, your muscle memory has already cycled another round into a manually-operated action to be prepared for a followup shot. At 200 yards, I can shoot my bolt-action just as fast as my semi, and with an even greater capacity by just putting a box of ammo on the bench and feeding from it.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:02 PM

42. Yes, there is no spray, yes, no.

Game animals are often taken at long ranges. In order to be humane and effective, a cartridge of substantial power must be used, and shot placement must be precise. Typically, for meat animals, the target area is the lungs and heart area. This is about the size of a dinner plate, and behind the front shoulder when the animal is broadside.

Hitting a dinner plate at 200 yards is not something conductive to "spray and pray". You aim carefully, and shoot. If the deer is running, you aim carefully, lead the target and shoot.


The hard part about hunting is finding and stalking the game animal. You can spend hours out in the wood or fields in the cold and the wind doing this.

The skill is in killing the animal without ruining the meat, which is what happens when you take a poor shot and gut-shoot the animal instead of hitting the vitals. Bad shoots lose the animal, who then suffer a painful, lingering death.


For big game, bolt-action rifles in substantial calibers are typically used. The AR-15 in .223 can be used for "varmits", or they can swap out the uppers for cartridges that shoot bigger, heavier bullets. The latter generally aren't as powerful or flat-shooting as bolt-action big-game rifles, but can be used out to 200 yards, and would work very well for hunting in dense cover such as forest or brush.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:25 PM

44. When you learn what "semi-automatic" means your questions will answer themselves

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:28 PM

45. Yes, probably more often than not.

 

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Please read up on hunting before saying incredibly stupid things about it. Semiautomatic rifles have been around for 100 years. Most hunters typically keep 3-5 rounds loaded in the firearm. If the first shot doesn't work, then a second shot can be easily taken. Hunting is about patience and self control. There's no reason to think a person cant simply control their trigger finger.

Most cars are likely capable of travelling 110-120+ miles per hour. Do you just assume all drivers travel at the maximum capabilities of their vehicles?

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:50 PM

46. yes, especially shotguns for small game hunting

however they have small capacity magazines - mostly for game management.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 03:05 PM

47. As others have suggested, it varies a lot based on the "kind" of hunting you're doing.

In my experience, it's fairly rare to see semiautos used when hunting large game (elk, deer, bear, etc). They are out there, but that segment is still dominated by high powered bolt action rifles.

Small game hunting (rabbits, etc) is usually done with smaller caliber semiautomatic rifles and shotguns. This isn't because they are "bad hunters", but because smaller game is usually flighty and fast moving, and it CAN take a couple of shots to actually hit them.

Bird hunting is split almost 50/50 in my experience, between pump shotgunners and semiautomatic shotgunners. I've personally never used a pump action shotgun when bird hunting, but I've seen plenty of people who do. It's a personal preference thing.

Pest eradication (ground squirrels, coyotes, etc) is nearly always done with larger caliber semiautos.

So, yes, they are really used for hunting. They aren't used for hunting everything, but they are very widely used.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 03:09 PM

48. Learn about guns, seriously

Among the best hunting shotguns are semi-autos. Less recoil which improves accuracy.

The one cited is a workhorse competition, waterfowl, etc to include many police cruisers (see the tactical edition).

The Automatic/semi-automatic designation describes how the weapon operates. Automatic meaning it fires while the trigger is depressed, and semi meaning it fires once (military grade weapons may have a burst selection) each time the trigger is pulled. This is independent of the ammunition type fired. There are semi automatic handguns, rifles and shotguns, all with valid hunting and sport shooting (which I define as shooting targets of some sort) reasonable uses.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:20 PM

52. Written like a person that knows absolutely nothing about firearms.

 

I want universal disarmament, but this shit is counter-productive.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:28 PM

54. Yes, yes they are

Spray and pray is full automatic fire. Semis do one bullet per trigger pull.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:31 PM

55. real hunters use a bow and arrow

My friend's mother shoots deer this way and makes venison. But this chick is awesome and also taught her daughter to be an electrician. Not everyone is awesome.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 06:38 PM

57. They're really useful for small birds like quail or doves

Less so for pheasants or waterfowl, but still serviceable and it's more economical to use a single gun for your hunting.

There is no "spray of bullets" from a shotgun.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:16 PM

60. I prefer a bolt action to a semi-auto when hunting.

 

That being said, only 25% or so of gun owners hunt. This is something the gun grabbers have a hard time understanding. When they say things like "we want to ban the evil, scary black guns while protecting the rights of hunters and sportsmen", they think they're appealing to the mainstream of gun owners, when in reality they're alienating an even larger percentage. It just proves that they're clueless on the subject.

Sales of traditional hunting rifles and shotguns have been declining for years, the sale of tactical rifles and semi-auto pistols keeps increasing. AR-15's and other military style rifles aren't just owned by a few nutjobs, they ARE the mainstream now.

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Response to Dr_Scholl (Reply #60)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:35 PM

61. So 75% of gun owners

own guns for the purpose of shooting people?

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Response to LWolf (Reply #61)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:37 PM

62. Target shooting? nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #62)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:40 PM

63. I guess.

I'm not sure what the point is, if it isn't practice for shooting something else.

Of course, on 2nd thought, I'd rather they be shooting pretend targets than live targets.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #63)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:48 PM

64. My entire family shoots

and it has nothing to do with preparing to kill something. We just enjoy the skill and competition.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #64)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:32 PM

69. Okay.

I'm pretty competitive myself. I just don't like to compete with lethal implements.

To each her own.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #63)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:30 PM

82. It's a skill thing, quite Zen as well, is the point for me.

It takes a lot to be able to put 5 rounds into a circle under a half-inch at 100 yards. A lot of focus, a lot of concentration, at the same time a lot of relaxation, zoning out almost, and a very gentle touch. I learned a good bit of the mental discipline from studying Japanese archery.

When I'm behind the scope looking at paper, killing literally couldn't be farther from my mind.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:13 AM

85. That's good to know.

I get the zen thing; I experience that kind of focus and relaxation when I meditate.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #61)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:43 PM

80. We're not all homocidal

I don't hunt....my .22 isn't powerful enough. Its not exactly meant to kill people either...its possible yes, but not exactly meant for that.

How do I use it?

I once killed an oppossum after it bit me....rabies scare, worried about safety of pets, and wanted the animal checked to avoid getting shots, etc.

We also target shoot. Nothing fancy - just something called a ' spinner' around fifty yards away. Its a metal plate that spins around when hit. Its fun to spend an hour or so seeing who is most accurate...just some mindless entertainment....and no more prurient than spending a few hours watching a shoot em up movie.

I'm cheap and don't have semi-auto...but it would make it a little more enjoyable, and easier to stay on target. There are Olympic shooting events btw...so I'm not a lone wolf. Some people just like to target shoot.



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Response to wercal (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:12 AM

84. I know there are olympic shooting events, lol.

I work with a competitive skeet shooter.

I just don't understand the attraction.

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Response to Dr_Scholl (Reply #60)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:33 PM

83. I use the best tool I have for the job.

A lot of the time it's a vanilla wood-and-blue-steel .243. For long shots, or if I'm just feeling like it, a .300 Win Mag. And some days, especially when there's weather for the rifle to contend with, a stainless-and-plastic semiauto .308. All three do things in slightly different ways and all three are perfectly legitimate hunting rifles no matter how their looks make some people feel.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:52 PM

66. no

 

thread over.

next stupid gun post please.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:04 PM

67. Yep

and your characterization of them isn't grounded in reality.

The one my grandfather bought in 1954 was a semi-automatic. He used it until he died. He was an avid deer hunter in Michigan and Wisconsin. My dad then started using it for deer hunting. I shot my first deer with it in 1978. I have used it since my dad passed away in 2000. My son shot his first deer with it in 2008. It has a detachable magazine and is semi automatic. Remington Model 740. The shotgun my dad bought in 1960s is a semi-auto Winchester model 50...specifically designed for upland game birds and small game...widely used in states which do not allow rifles for deer hunting, only shotgun slugs.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:11 PM

75. Yes. They don't spray. Yes. No. Seriously (nt)

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:47 PM

81. Here is a video that gives conclusive evidence that semi-autos are used for hunting.

 

?t=1m49s


Reminds me of Apocalypse Now.

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Response to Undismayed (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:11 AM

89. Hogs are a literal plague on the land

You could have picked a better video, if you're trying to come down with an anti-something viewpoint - feral hogs are an alien species, wreaking havoc throughout the South; in Texas "Feral hogs are unprotected, exotic, non-game animals. Therefore, they may be taken by any means or methods at any time of year. There are no seasons or bag limits, however a hunting license and landowner permission are required to hunt them."

One of my dad's friends owns a ranch out there; he uses a semi-auto 308 with a 20 round magazine to kill 20 hogs in a sitting and leaves the corpses to rot where they fall. If he could use a Minigun from a helo to slaughter them by the thousands, he would, and it would be not only legal but applauded.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 11:01 AM

92. Many are shot around here and left for the buzzards an varmints

I usually at least get the loins/backstraps and hams if its a sow or young/clean boar. They are very tasty and you are correct, considered a pest here in Florida as well.

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Response to Justice (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 09:48 AM

91. Yes, seriously

I don't how amny times it has to be said that these are not machine guns. Moreover in many places when you hunt you're limited to how much ammo you can carry in MI for it's 6 rounds.

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