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Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:52 PM

 

Why Were 10,000 Nazis Given Safe Haven in US? Kinda creepy, where are they now?

Nazis Were Given ‘Safe Haven’ in U.S., Report Says


Perhaps the report’s most damning disclosures come in assessing the Central Intelligence Agency’s involvement with Nazi émigrés. Scholars and previous government reports had acknowledged the C.I.A.’s use of Nazis for postwar intelligence purposes. But this report goes further in documenting the level of American complicity and deception in such operations.

The Justice Department report, describing what it calls “the government’s collaboration with persecutors,” says that O.S.I investigators learned that some of the Nazis “were indeed knowingly granted entry” to the United States, even though government officials were aware of their pasts. “America, which prided itself on being a safe haven for the persecuted, became — in some small measure — a safe haven for persecutors as well,” it said.

The report also documents divisions within the government over the effort and the legal pitfalls in relying on testimony from Holocaust survivors that was decades old. The report also concluded that the number of Nazis who made it into the United States was almost certainly much smaller than 10,000, the figure widely cited by government officials.

The Justice Department has resisted making the report public since 2006. Under the threat of a lawsuit, it turned over a heavily redacted version last month to a private research group, the National Security Archive, but even then many of the most legally and diplomatically sensitive portions were omitted. A complete version was obtained by The New York Times.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14nazis.html?_r=0

55 replies, 3611 views

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Reply Why Were 10,000 Nazis Given Safe Haven in US? Kinda creepy, where are they now? (Original post)
No Compromise Jan 2013 OP
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #1
loli phabay Jan 2013 #4
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #39
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #52
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #53
ileus Jan 2013 #2
tritsofme Jan 2013 #3
samsingh Jan 2013 #5
Igel Jan 2013 #9
samsingh Jan 2013 #14
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #15
samsingh Jan 2013 #42
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #54
movonne Jan 2013 #31
jmg257 Jan 2013 #6
jody Jan 2013 #7
Dash87 Jan 2013 #11
No Compromise Jan 2013 #43
leveymg Jan 2013 #8
Xithras Jan 2013 #10
sabrina 1 Jan 2013 #12
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #16
sabrina 1 Jan 2013 #20
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #55
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #13
monmouth3 Jan 2013 #17
OldEurope Jan 2013 #18
sabrina 1 Jan 2013 #21
Octafish Jan 2013 #23
Fla Dem Jan 2013 #46
No Compromise Jan 2013 #49
11 Bravo Jan 2013 #19
LineLineReply .
Rex Jan 2013 #40
Octafish Jan 2013 #22
OmahaBlueDog Jan 2013 #24
woo me with science Jan 2013 #26
OmahaBlueDog Jan 2013 #33
Cliff Arnebeck Jan 2013 #25
rl6214 Jan 2013 #27
ladjf Jan 2013 #28
99th_Monkey Jan 2013 #29
Warpy Jan 2013 #30
DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #32
zappaman Jan 2013 #35
Coyotl Jan 2013 #34
No Compromise Jan 2013 #36
Coyotl Jan 2013 #37
Recursion Jan 2013 #38
Claybrains Jan 2013 #41
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #44
Nikia Jan 2013 #45
ellie Jan 2013 #47
B2G Jan 2013 #48
No Compromise Jan 2013 #50
librechik Jan 2013 #51

Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:54 PM

1. Were all these Germans really Nazis?

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:59 PM

4. probuably in that tbey were members of the party though that may have been to avoid being killed

 

Probuably the us took a lot of them in as they were avowed anti communists and that was the next menace on the horizon and they had skill sets that the us wanted. Hopefully none were involved with the camps etc rather tbey were scientists and military personnel.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:52 AM

39. That actually did happen, btw.

People who didn't necessarily like the Nazis often felt like they had no choice but to join in order to avoid persecution. Ferry Porsche, the inventor of the Volkswagen(which was first thought of shortly before the end of the Weimar period, btw), was one of them. And there's many other examples out there as well.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:41 AM

52. A lot of NAZI Party members really were NAZIs.

And their ideas are still alive and well in our current Republican Party.

On edit, but if you were 20 in 1940, you were born in 1920. That makes you 92 at this time. Pretty harmless. But those you influenced are still around.

Some of our nation's excessive paranoia may be due to the influence of NAZIs like Reinhard Gehlen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen

Only history will tell for sure just what his role was in providing us information and informing our ideas about Eastern Europe after WWII.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:42 AM

53. That, too, is true, sadly. n/t

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:55 PM

2. I'd say most are in the grave.

now...

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:55 PM

3. Our Germans were better than their Germans.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:59 PM

5. i;ve always been creeped out by how many

nazis were protected by the west and allowed to live happy lives after the nazis butchered so many innocent ones.

its disgusting

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Response to samsingh (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:28 PM

9. I volunteer taught ESL to Russian speakers.

The youngest was in her 60s.This was in 2002-04.

Some went weepy when they remembered Stalin.

Most were card-carrying members of the Communist Party. This got them in serious trouble when they applied for citizenship.

Only one had the temerity to say that she was a "kommunist"--and glared at the others when they just stared at her.

For her "communist" had to do with justice, and it was all about her. She refused to believe what had happened to others when she was a girl, if for no other fact than her family benefited from the Communist oppression of children who were, by any sane standard, innocents. She had to assume that those purged were really bad, because she benefited from the purges.

For her "communist" meant that she and her family got what they deserved and thought it was all unfairly taken away from her. She was pissed that she had worked and been promised a pension, and the younger generation didn't want to pay for it. She was a hero and was bitter because she wasn't honored. That she had sacrificed so much and, in the end, was told that her beliefs were mistaken. They couldn't be. If the purges and Stalin's "minor flaws" were seriously bad, if the system was corrupt, then she'd lived for a lie.

She even tried to say that we Americans were all still trying to dupe her. That Brighton, NY--a berg on the fringes of Rochester--was a model city, a Potyomkin village. She was a loon. But even then, she was a harmless delusional paranoid.

The other card-carrying communists were in the party often because it was all but required. Or they joined because it was the thing to do. Some said they were naive or duped and they believed in it when they were young.

I thought at the time it was unreasonable to say that Communist Party members who had basically abandoned their membership when it was no longer useful had to run into unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles. (This is different from abandoning the membership when it became harmful.)

Same for Nazis. Or any other society in which membership is essentially coerced.

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:37 PM

14. that's disgusting

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:37 PM

15. you act like everyone who joined the party was coerced. not the case. and the moral case

 

you make can be turned around, you know; the people 'purged' when the communists took power were the people who'd been happy to 'purge' the general population before to hold on to their own power & privilege. the woman may have benefited from people being jailed & killed -- but so did those people benefit from people like the woman being jailed & killed before the revolution.

most soviet citizens in fact didn't belong to the party, btw.

By 1933, the party had approximately 3.5 million members but as a result of the Great Purge party membership was cut down to 1.9 million by 1939. In 1986, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union had over 19 million members or approximately 10% of the USSR's adult population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union#Membership

that the people you met belonged to the party is an indicator of their class status within the ussr -- basically the equivalent of the upper middle-class to upper class here -- supervisory & management types, generally speaking.

which doesn't mean they were necessarily born into that class; the revolution opened up lots of opportunity for people of lowly origins who would not have had that opportunity otherwise. kruschev's father was a peasant & low-level worker; kruschev herded goats as a child, e.g.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:36 AM

42. kick

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Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:05 AM

54. Did you ever live in Germany or Austria?

A lot of the people were NAZIs by choice. They hated the NAZIs but also loved them.

When I lived in those countries for a number of years, I often heard the refrain that at least Hitler brought full employment. The Germans were less anti-Jewish and better informed about what happened in WWII than the Austrians.

Sorry to say that, but that was my experience. It is probably different now. The WWII generation, those who were adults during that war, are now in their 90s. Those who were teenagers are in their 80s.

But their children . . . . ?

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Response to samsingh (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:55 PM

31. and become repug politiations...

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:59 PM

6. So we could win the moon race. nt

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:01 PM

7. Because they had special skills, e.g. Wernher von Braun. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:35 PM

11. Agree. Bringing in Nazi scientists would have been advantageous at the time,

in order to steal Nazi technology and scientific brain power.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:48 AM

43. and put them to work in Big Pharma

 


Wasn't Big Pharma testing on people in east Germany even until the 80's?

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:11 PM

8. We've known about Operation Paperclip for over 40 years, and they're still covering up the details?

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:31 PM

10. Because everyone of any consequence in Germany was a Nazi.

Nazi Germany was a lot like the USSR. It wasn't just military types in the party. If you wanted to be a mailman, a teacher, an actor, a newspaper reporter, or hold pretty much any other job that was either government funded, or exerted some sort of social influence on the people, you were essentially required to join the Nazi Party. Countless Germans signed the cards and became "Nazi's" simply because it was the only way they could keep their jobs. If you're a first grade teacher in rural Bavaria, and the local party head walks in and says that you're going to be fired and banned from teaching if you don't sign the membership card and take the oath, a lot of people will just cave and do it.

When the Soviets took over East Germany, countless academics and other "paper Nazi's" fled west to escape them. It had been less than 15 years since the Soviet Union had completed its last Great Purge and killed thousands of its OWN academics, and deported tens of thousands more to the gulags. They knew that, as German academics, they faced an even grimmer fate. So they fled. Most just ended up in West Germany, but many fled the country entirely. Because the rest of Europe didn't want anything to do with Germans at the time, they ended up here in the U.S.

This is also why a general amnesty was granted to Germans who had been members of the party, if they had not personally profited from it, been involved in its leadership or administration, or worked for its military.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:59 PM

12. But there are also many former prison guards and real Nazis

who participated in the murder of Jews living here for decades. And even when discovered, it has been difficult to get them thrown out of the country. They had families and jobs here and most of them lived under different names. I wouldn't be surprised if many or all of them are Right Wingers. Families of such people were most like raised to hate the 'left' as they would view this country.

Much has come out even before these latest revelations about the Nazis who managed to live here until they were finally discovered. The effort to get them become more urgent over the past number of years due to the fact that ARE growing old and feeble and have never paid for the crimes they participated in.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:41 PM

16. What do you know of Wernher von Braun and his team of scientists, or the Gehlen Group?....

Von Braun was a member of the SS even though he stated he was forced to join for political reasons. Von Braun also knew slave labor picked from the Buchenwald concentration camp worked in the factory producing parts for his V-2 rocket program. More people died producing the rockets in his factory than those killed by the rockets themselves. The US took in the German scientists because of what they knew and what they could produce. Quite simply, we were willing to sacrifice our stated ideals for the sake of technological progress in the field of rocketry.

Additionally, we took German Major General Reinhard Gehlen who served as chief of the German Army's military intelligence unit on the Eastern Front in World War II. Immediately following the end of the war, he was recruited by the United States military to set up a spy ring known as the Gehlen Group to be directed against the Soviet Union. The Gehlen Group employed up to 10,000 former SS, SD and Wehrmacht officers, all seeking revenge on the Soviet Union. This spy organization later became a branch of the CIA after 1947 and drove many of our beliefs about the capabilities of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Gehlen eventually became head of the West German intelligence apparatus and served as the first president of the Federal Intelligence Service until 1968. Again, we sacrificed our ideals for the sake of gathering what amounted to be tainted/slanted intelligence.

And yes....they would have made very good right-wingers in the US, and would have been accepted with open arms by those who supported the Nazis during the early years of WWII, people like Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker among many others.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:16 PM

20. I have been reading a lot of history about Germany under Hitler

lately and have been shocked to find out how few of the genocidal murderers were ever held accountable. I had always assumed that we made sure those who engaged on any level in that horrendous crime, had been punished.

But reading the stories of many of the survivors, people who were there, it became clear that a very small number of the guilty were punished and the effort to do so was weak at best.

I did not know those details you just described but have read that these monsters were allowed to function for the Government here and intended to do some more research on that. I find it appalling that we are told how 'moral' the US was when really it was not when it came to Nazi Germany.

One account I read of a personal story was by Ron Wyden's father who was a teenager in Germany during the rise of Hitler. His family got out, but he went back later to try to find one of his high school friends and gave a very good accounting of things were when he returned during WW11 to help, I believe he was in the US Military.

It seems to me the more I read, the more what I thought I knew was not the case.

What you just described is shameful. Seems to me it was probably just an excuse to protect those monsters as I'm certain we have people right here in the US who were just as capable of doing what these people did.

Thanks for your post, this all needs to be known. It doesn't serve this country well to keep the population believing what we grew up believing, because an awful lot of it was not true.

I also would not be surprised if our 'Cold War' wasn't heavily influenced by these monsters who most likely never altered their beliefs in their own superiority.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 04:07 AM

55. Thanks for you post.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:06 PM

13. Roots of the modern repug party.

 

And we wonder why they have fascist beliefs.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:48 PM

17. Friends of Prescott Bush....n/t

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:51 PM

18. They are dead now. nt

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Response to OldEurope (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:19 PM

21. No they are not all dead, some are still around. Not to mention that

they raised families here. No wonder we have so many insane right wingers in this country. We take in the 'refugees' from all the dictatorships we supported also when their own people finally get rid of them.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:41 PM

23. Exactly, Sabrina1. The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:55 AM

46. Yes, very staunch in their beliefs and politics. Still very much "Master Race" ideology.

Even if the "Nazi" grandparents are now dead, their children and grandchildren are now adults. The ideology would have been passed down. Would make very good RW ideologues.

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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:03 PM

49. yes, they still have the money, they put people in positions of power

 

who put more into positions of power.

Just like the Nazis, they infiltrate everywhere, every organization.

They become our church leaders, our boy scout leaders, our coaches...

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:53 PM

19. I'll go with "dead", at least for most of them.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:57 AM

40. .

I agree.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:26 PM

22. Went back to Wall Street and the Military-Industrial Complex.

There, they helped fuel the Cold and various hout wars for power and profit.

Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x872755


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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:49 PM

24. This is kinda sorta old news

Many of the Germans/Nazis let in after the fall of Germany were members of the so-called "Gehlen Organization." These were Abwher and SS members who were possessed of intelligence knowledge, or who were running agents inside of the Soviet Union. While most of these individuals were not directly involved in the operation of the camps, it would be disingenuous to say the had no knowledge of the activities. Most of these people were at least nominally Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:09 PM

26. Not old news to many, many Americans.

This stuff isn't generally taught in school, and it is always good to raise awareness.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 08:07 PM

33. Sorry - I forget that having a family member in the National Archives has advantages

But the information has been out there for those willing to look.

Another resource (for those wo are interested):

The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group
http://www.archives.gov/iwg/

The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG) locates, identifies, inventories, and recommends for declassification, currently classified U.S. records relating to Nazi and Japanese Imperial Government war crimes. Once declassified, these records are released to the American public. The group, consisting of high-level representatives from federal agencies and public members, was established by the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act and the Japanese Imperial Government Disclosure Act.

Since 1999, the IWG has declassified and opened to the public an estimated 8 million pages of documents, including 1.2 million pages of OSS records; 74,000 pages of CIA name and subject files; more than 350,000 pages of FBI subject files; and nearly 300,000 pages of Army intelligence files. The once secret records are helping to shape our understanding of the Holocaust, war crimes, World War II and postwar activities of U.S. and Allied intelligence agencies.

The IWG has issued two interim reports to Congress (in October 1999 and March 2002), and it issues news releases and occasional newsletters, and has published a book. Several publications are forthcoming.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:05 PM

25. Great work by the NYT

Long live investigative journalism! Our chance for democracy depends upon it.

Cliff Arnebeck

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:12 PM

27. I would say most are dead now.

 

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:19 PM

28. Weirner Von Braun brought his people over to work on missles for the U.S. Nazi propagandist

were brought over to help us with our propaganda efforts in Eastern Europe. At least a few of these became writers , yes, for the Republican Party.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:21 PM

29. Transnational "Security Specialists" in service to Multinational Corporate Overlords. ~nt

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:46 PM

30. Most of them were scientists and people who had worked

on the buzz bombs. The country had nukes but needed a way to deliver them, so the buzz bomb program which led to the space race was extremely important. The USSR also gave safe haven to the ones we missed.

Whether they were good Nazis or just people who did what they were told because they wanted to avoid the concentration camps is moot. Most of them lived long lives and died in bed.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:57 PM

32. I knew one.

I don't want to go into any details, as his sons are still alive and use the same surname.

Damn, he was a creepy old bastard. Had a basement library full of memorabilia. The US brought him through Argentina, following the war. He had been in SS Intelligence.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 08:25 PM

35. Cool story Bro!

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 08:19 PM

34. I worked for one. He was a nice guy and understood the history very well.

They had little choice about being Nazis, and he was Hitler Youth at an age when he knew little of the facts or the outside reality. He was lividly anti-Hitler. And his daughter married into the most prominent Jewish family in a very large city.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 10:27 PM

36. is this the same as the tea party today?...

 

"They had little choice about being Nazis, and he was Hitler Youth at an age when he knew little of the facts or the outside reality"

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Response to No Compromise (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:39 PM

37. No.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:41 PM

38. Well, personally I'm glad Werner von Braun worked for us instead of Stalin (nt)

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:14 AM

41. My mother is from Nuremberg.

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:10 AM - Edit history (1)

My mother's family were all doctors, judges, ambassadors, diplomats, and my great-great uncle was The German Admiral and Secretary of State of the German Imperial Navy Office, Alfred von Tirpitz. Many members of her family were arrested and tortured My mother and I visit Germany every couple of years. She would point out the house where there was a Nazi that was stationed in a house near them to keep watch over my Grosspapa, since he was a doctor and state judge. You either complied or else. I went to her 60th high school reunion with her, and most of their stories were of happy memories before the war. They never saw the jews being carted off. Not at all of what I had expected, but the Russians were a different matter.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:50 AM

44. Almost all, if not all, would be dead by now.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:17 AM

45. One of my grandparents friends may have been a Nazi

Which is very ironic.
Aside from the fact that she was German and had lived in Germany during the WWII time period, my grandparents called her a Nazi when they were having some sort of political or philosophical argument. It wasn't like how some people called Bush a Nazi. It was a literal slam to her background, which she never denied.
She died during the 90's and was quite old.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:56 AM

47. Wasn't this called Operation Paperclip?

Or did the XFiles make that up?

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:00 PM

48. Google MK Ultra

interesting if true.

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Response to B2G (Reply #48)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 08:47 PM

50. MK Ultra is where they would be, yes

 

working on manchurian candidates, just look at some of our crazy tea party Congressmen, with those beady eyes where you can tell they are not all there.

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Response to No Compromise (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:00 PM

51. why? cuz we didn't want the Soviets to get them when they swooped into Germany

was it a good thing? IMO, the Nazis we got were too influential in the US to be healthy for our democracy. And we will never know the true limits of their influence, because many of them had a secret agenda to rule us--and they may have succeeded. As Phil Dick speculated, the Germans actually won World War II and we can't even tell the difference.

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