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Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:44 AM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (bigtree) on Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:07 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
bigtree Jan 2013 OP
HappyMe Jan 2013 #1
Maraya1969 Jan 2013 #2
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #5
Orrex Jan 2013 #3
etherealtruth Jan 2013 #6
Orrex Jan 2013 #13
Lex Jan 2013 #4
freshwest Jan 2013 #7
L0oniX Jan 2013 #8
lunatica Jan 2013 #9
daleanime Jan 2013 #11
Android3.14 Jan 2013 #10
Moonwalk Jan 2013 #12
Glassunion Jan 2013 #16
alphafemale Jan 2013 #17
Moonwalk Jan 2013 #19
alphafemale Jan 2013 #20
madokie Jan 2013 #14
bigtree Jan 2013 #24
Mira Jan 2013 #15
tblue37 Jan 2013 #18
KittyWampus Jan 2013 #21
alphafemale Jan 2013 #22
Timbuk3 Jan 2013 #23

Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:49 AM

1. That's pretty cool.

To the woman --

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:35 PM

2. Aw man, that made my eyes water.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:56 PM

5. Mine, too

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:42 PM

3. A lovely story

I wish that it were true.

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Response to Orrex (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:58 PM

6. Much like Aesop's fables or parables ....

It doesn't have to be true in order to make a point or teach a valuable lesson

My phrasing may sound snarky (?) ... but, that wasn't my intent

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:55 PM

13. Not snarky at all--don't worry

However, I'm always suspicious of feel-good glurge like this story, in part because the "apocryphal anecdote" has been such a powerful workhorse in service of the Republican propaganda machine for so many decades. For reference, see pretty much anything that came out of Reagan's mouth, and likewise every other Republican or Conservative who's tried to come across as "folksy" ever since, such as Palin and Bachman.

I'd rather hear a much less poignant but verifiably true story than one made-up warmhearted tale. The truth has a Liberal bias; we should use it to our advantage.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:48 PM

4. Other versions on snopes

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:09 PM

7. I was hoping the story would end that way as I read it.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:14 PM

8. K & R

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:19 PM

9. If that really happened that woman would never again speak her racism in public again

And the world would be that much more of a better place.

I think if all of those of us who see racism anywhere spoke out we could make our culture better. Racists would have to go back into the closet where they were before Sarah Palin invited them out.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:52 PM

11. True, very true.

nt

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:21 PM

10. Nice story, but just a legend

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:55 PM

12. In one of the originals, the objecting person is Islamic and won't sit next to a Bible-reading...

...woman he calls an "infidel."

What would you think of the story had it been told that way here? With an irate Muslim man as the shouting, crazed bigot, and a saintly Evangelical woman as the other passenger?

Nice as this tale is, it does leave itself open to to the very bigotry it's condemning. It can also be used as a Strawman argument. For example, what if the irate passenger were cast as a liberal, anti-war peacnik who refuses to sit next to a conservative veteran wearing a flag pin? Would we applaud this story given that it's being used as a Strawman argument to typecast and condemn those who aren't in favor of our fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Parables are fun, yes, but we should watch out. The very ones we think teach a good lesson can easily be twisted to teach something else if we're not careful.



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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:07 PM

16. I thought the original story was

That some guy with a chocolate bar did not want to sit next to someone eating peanut butter.

I could be wrong.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:17 PM

17. Yes. In any of those scenarios you describe the person objecting is a bigot.

A liberal objecting to a veteran wearing a flag pin?

You assume we would be OK with that...why?

Objecting to merely sitting next to another for a few hours is by definition bigoted.

Aside from something like projectile leprosy.

It would be a very ugly bigoted thing to do except for very, legitimate medical reasons.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:34 PM

19. I'm not assuming you would be okay with that--re-read my post as you...

...totally missed the point.

The point is, this story can be told to make people into STRAWMEN. Do you know what the term means? And when you do that you turn the story into a bigoted view of a certain group of people RATHER than a story about the evils of bigotry.

When using the Islamic against the evangelical, we see CLEARLY (or at least I do) bigotry against Islamics in showing them all as crazy terrorists who think anyone reading a Bible is an "infidel" which is ridiculous since Islam includes the Bible! This parable is very nice when it seems to be about bigotry, but it can very easily be used to have people assuming that all Islamics hate Christians and see them as infidels--and those cheering the story cheering how a saintly woman of their faith won out over the evil Islamic.

Remember this story is NOT TRUE. Not true, not true, not true. If it WAS true then I WOULD expect us all to be angry at the guy yelling at the flag-wearing veteran, whoever he was. And insisting that not all of us against certain wars are like that. But as it's NOT TRUE, I expect us all to be smart enough to see how this story could be used by those who want to paint anyone who is anti-war as an anti-veteran/anti-american; someone who should be ignored and put in their place with a standing ovation. Do you want us all cast that way? This story can do that. Just as, if you read the link to Snopes website there, you'll see that this story was used to really unfairly cast South Africans as bigots. THAT is a true story of what happened when a version of THIS false story was spread all over New Zealand as true.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:00 PM

20. I was a modern parable. An Urban Legend.

That is obvious within the first few lines.

The important thing is not the race or political bent of the person refusing to sit next to a fellow human being for a few hours. The evil in all scenarios would be the very act of bigotry itself.

Not all white women are bigots or villains either.

What you are fearing is what I see as the simple beauty of this modern fable.

Yes, it can be retold with practically endless variations of types of people playing the role of the bigot and their object of wrath.

And it is the bigotry that is scorned and humiliated in every case.

Anyone that would change the tale to tell it in a racist way is extremely irony challenged and to be pitied.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:56 PM

14. Damn that was good, thanks

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Response to madokie (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:07 PM

24. alas, it appears to be a 'modern parable'

. . . true or not.

Nice story, tho, . . . att: Obama Diary

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:03 PM

15. It's rare - but I DID see this one coming. Very appropriate

Recommended

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:58 PM

18. I am 62. I use a cane. On my last flight--on Dec. 31 this week--

I sat next to a nice man who helped me put my coat and my heavy roll-on bag in the overhead and then get them down after we landed.

Now, I had also replaced my regular purse with a supersized one as a way of weaseling the equivalent of two carry-on bags so I would not have to check a bag, but I had overstuffed that second bag, thus breaking its zipper. I tied the bag's handles together to prevent everything from spilling out, but even when the zipper was intact I had trouble handling with just my left hand the heavily packed roll-on bag with the overstuffed "purse" perched on top of it, since my right hand had to use my cane to allow me to walk safely.

From my first steps off the plane, as we made our way through the tunnel from the plane to the airport, I struggled with my bag. I told those behind me to go on past me, saying that I would be moving too slowly and didn't want to delay them.

My seatmate, whose name I hadn't learned, even though we'd chatted during much of our flight, excused himself to squeeze past the two passengers that he had allowed to get in front of him for debarcation after getting my overhead bag down for me. He took my heavy, awkward bags from me--even though he had a roll-on bag and a messenger bag of his own to carry--and pulled them through the tunnel for me. I tried to take my big "purse" from him at least, since it--and its broken zipper situation--made it the worst problem, but he insisted on handling all of my stuff for me.

When we got into the airport, he stayed with me even after we exited the gate area, and he would not abandon me until we located the friend who had come to pick me up.

If I had been the kind of racist idiot that awful woman was, I would have been deprived of the company of this man during that 2-hour-plus flight, as well as his much appreciated--and much needed--assistance after we landed. Even without his help after we'd landed that would have been a real loss, since I was too tired to read as I usually do, but too uncomfortable in those tiny airplane seats to sleep. My conversation with this sweet man--which covered the sort of political and economic topics we discuss here on DU--made a huge difference in making the flight bearable.

ON EDIT: I see from other comments that the OP story isn't actually true. Well, mine is, even though it's not as perfect in its revelatory arc.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:09 PM

21. I've had some of the nicest conversations with strangers on NY mass transit.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #18)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 07:11 PM

22. Your story is one of the reasons I pity bigots.

They are missing the opportunity to interact with truly wonderful people.

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Response to bigtree (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 10:47 PM

23. Beautiful

And, JFTR, I'm a classic GOP voter; white, middle class, heterosexual, married, in my mid-50's.

And I haven't voted for a GOP candidate, ever.

(I just want to retire from this whole fucked up system.)

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