HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » When did being a service ...

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:04 PM

When did being a service member/veteran become BAD here in DU?!

I'm feeling rather conflicted--earlier today I read a thread about some of the recent events in Okinawa involving US service member acting badly. I didn't say let the guys be guys or anything or that nature; rather my opinion is don't declare every single military person a bad apple whenever somethings over there.

I grew up in a military family, and we had the honor of living in Japan when I was finishing high school. I LOVED it, met so many great friends whom I still talk with everyday thanks to the Internet and Skype, and after my time in the military, I'm currently a civilian employee of the Navy, working towards one day being able to be stationed in Japan once more

And each time I read about another crime committed in Okinawa, it makes my stomach turn. One, living overseas is hard enough; now 99.5 percent of the service people and their families--who simply obey the law and want to enjoy such a unique opportunity--have to face VERY angry Okinawa citizens who have had enough of the nonsense. I don't blame them, but there's a simple reason why we still have bases there: that area is one of the most important and potentially explosive regions on the planet. I do't want anything to happen that could start who knows what, because that will really be terrible for all of us.

And recently I've seen postings here on DU from people who say,'shut down the bases, those GIs are brainless thugs, etc'...when I mentioned that my former Japanese language teacher in college stopped talking to me once I joined the military...one person here said,"I'm glad she did that". She's from Okinawa, so needless to say those numerous crimes and incidents have shaped her opinion sharply. Yet all I did and continue to do is serve my country the very best I can...when did that become such a sin here in DU ???

37 replies, 2340 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply When did being a service member/veteran become BAD here in DU?! (Original post)
Setsuna1972 Jan 2013 OP
ibegurpard Jan 2013 #1
Setsuna1972 Jan 2013 #2
merrily Jan 2013 #11
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #3
merrily Jan 2013 #13
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #15
merrily Jan 2013 #23
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #29
Rex Jan 2013 #19
bowens43 Jan 2013 #4
Liberal Veteran Jan 2013 #5
RomneyLies Jan 2013 #6
patrice Jan 2013 #8
lunasun Jan 2013 #26
patrice Jan 2013 #7
merrily Jan 2013 #9
Kurska Jan 2013 #10
merrily Jan 2013 #17
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #25
merrily Jan 2013 #27
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #33
quinnox Jan 2013 #12
Setsuna1972 Jan 2013 #18
quinnox Jan 2013 #22
DevonRex Jan 2013 #36
Skip Intro Jan 2013 #14
Setsuna1972 Jan 2013 #20
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #16
Dyedinthewoolliberal Jan 2013 #21
cheapdate Jan 2013 #24
Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #28
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #30
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #31
librechik Jan 2013 #32
madrchsod Jan 2013 #34
XRubicon Jan 2013 #35
pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #37

Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:06 PM

1. never?

because someone bad-mouthed someone in the military all DU hates the military personnel?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ibegurpard (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:10 PM

2. I wouldn't declare ALL of DU as anti-military

Only the few people who basically said,"military people like you were and continue to be part of the problem in Okinawa..." despite the fact that I never did anything worse than sing a few Japanese songs badly (and I don't drink alcohol, just I just mangled the words!)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:26 PM

11. But that is exactly what the subject line of your OP did declare.

Your OP said nothing about only a few people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ibegurpard (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:10 PM

3. Can't blame the author of the OP for feeling that way.

There have been many threads calling ALL soldiers murderers and similar generalizations. My entire family served in the military, and we have had some wonderful military friends. I get a bit miffed at these threads, but I just let them go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:28 PM

13. How about some links?

Because I have not seen a thread here on any controversial subject where every poster has the same point of view on a topic as all the other posters on that thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:30 PM

15. Read my post again. I didn't say that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:56 PM

23. How about some links to support what you patently did say?

The OP asked when it became bad at DU to be in the military (or words to that effect). Not a few posts, as he later added, or even a few threads, but bad at DU. Your response was, first:

"Can't blame the author of the OP for feeling that way."

That implies that you considered his statement reasonable.

So, how about a link or two that would support the reasonableness of his statement?

If you don't think you implied reasonableness, let's skip that and go to your next statement, namely..

"There have been many threads calling ALL soldiers murderers and similar generalizations."

Note: not many posts, but many threads.

So, how about a link or two to support that direct quote from your post?


The claims you and the OP made about DU and DUers are serious enough to warrant at least a couple of links so we can see context, exact wording, all the posts on a thread, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:27 AM

29. How about...

... you say please?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ibegurpard (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:46 PM

19. I've seen one or two here do that.

Yeah not the majority by a long shot. Tiny minority is more like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:13 PM

4. the military is no different then the rest of the population....

there are good people and there murderous, ignorant bigoted assholes. Being in the military doesn't give them a pass.

and oh yes , we certainly SHOULD shut down most of the bases that are not on US soil.We are hated in the world because of the actions of some of our military personnel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:13 PM

5. 2:14 GMT on 11/21/1976?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:14 PM

6. Since RWNJ radio shows started sending trolls here to stir shit. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:21 PM

8. ++1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:02 AM

26. got more trolls here than a dog has fleas.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:21 PM

7. Why do I keep seeing this? As far as I know, ONE person said they object because of

conscience to what the military does and that he was okay with telling them they shouldn't do it.

One person = DU?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:23 PM

9. How about a link or two so we can see what was actually posted?

Some of the things you quote may have had more context.

Aside from that, DU is a political message board and the military is not without controversy. Many points of view are going to be expressed, especially about controversial subjects.

Isn't that one of the America's virtues?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:25 PM

10. I've noticed too. I don't understand it in the slightest, I for one honor those who have served.

The average guy in boots doesn't have the slightest thing to do with war adventurism or the military industrial complex. You know all the bad parts of our military.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurska (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:34 PM

17. Not with policy-making, but saying that troops have nothing to do with the bad parts of our military

is not accurate. Killing people is a bad part of our military and every other military.

But, I don't think this is the thread to debate the broader issue.

I did not see the post on Okinawa, but I have seen many posts here praising the military and chastising posters who express a contrary view, to a degree I would consider piling on gratuitously. As in one or two people say something even mildly negative and about 20 tell them what horrible people they are and how they should not be posting here.

So, I would like to see the threads under discussion here for myself because this is contrary to what I have seen on other threads involving the military..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:01 AM

25. Just curious, but what percentage of our military since the US Civil War has actually fired....

....their weapon at an enemy, much less killed anyone?

Second question....do you really believe that every person who serves in the military is responsible for killing people, even if their specialty indicates that they do things like being a medic, or a truck driver, or a cook, or countless other occupations not requiring the service member to use a weapon?

And finally, if you really do believe every member of the military is personally responsible for the deaths of other people, then, based on the fact that our military and non-military economy is so completely integrated, you must believe EVERY American is ALSO guilty of killing people. That includes YOU, doesn't it?

Think about that for a while.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:13 AM

27. Please re-read my post. It says nothing of the kind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #27)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:49 AM

33. Your post certainly implies exactly what I posted. Answer the questions, please. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:27 PM

12. Ever since a slice on DU have viewed - Not having unqualified support and respect for the military

 

as = "hating the military or the troops". But given our ever present military cheer-leading and worshipping culture, is it any wonder that even some duers think this way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:43 PM

18. I never asked to be worshipped

Cheerleading? I didn't ask for that either. My question is how come there has been some people here who simply call any service member a murderer or worse, when the said service member might be a doctor or nurse helping people after Super Storm Sandy or the Earthquake/Tsunami/Nuclear meltdown in Japan nearly 2 years ago

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:48 PM

22. I have seen no posts like that on DU

 

Maybe you are getting wrong impressions or interpreting posts wrongly, that would be my guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:18 AM

36. According to you, they need to be held accountable just for volunteering.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022126929#post60

And to say the things you said to Drunken Irishman, whose father died as a result of Vietnam service, was despicable. Oh,and you reccced that OP which also castigated people for volunteering.

So the OP of this thread has a valid point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:28 PM

14. First, thank you for your service to our country.


Second, you have to realize some people who post here just get off on saying "f..k" ANY institution of our nation. Some are just loud-mouth online exhibitionists who want attention or think it is "cool" to trash anything traditional and/or representative of authority. Law enforcement faces similar attacks here.

But I have to believe they are little more than a vocal but small minority on this site. At least I hope so.

For me, though, I'd like to thank you for your service. It is a shame there are invariably a few bad apples in every bunch. It is more of a shame some would want to toss the entire bunch because of those few.

I hope the situation brings understanding, and justice for the deserving, and that you get back to Japan if that is where you really want to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skip Intro (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:46 PM

20. Thank you very much !!!

i literally have the military in my blood So it just struck me as so odd to why a few people here would consider me part fo the problem why the situation in Okinawa is so bad...when I get back to Japan--and I will !--I want to be that good example of how a service member can be a positive influence over there

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:30 PM

16. I get what you are saying.

I have been seeing a lot of stereotyping as of late. Very odd. With us being such a diverse group, I would think that would not happen as much as it has of late.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:47 PM

21. I'm a veteran and I've not noticed that

here. What I do know is there are almost 200,000 (199,000) registered users. Some percentage of that number are going to be vocal and believe active duty and veteran members of the service to be bad. Meh............... I think what they really mean is the people who control HOW service members are used, they are the ones to watch out for.
and it's a case of a few bad apples. The service is merely a cross section of society. We can have some real problem cases on our hands but that exists everywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:58 PM

24. Some people are going to say shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:20 AM

28. See post 87

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:32 AM

30. I think it is this.

People have it stuck in their crawls that people enlisted to go fight wars based on lies that have cost the country in treasury lives and innocent lives of families numbering in the millions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:38 AM

31. It's only a small group that think all military are bad

Just like some think all police are bad.

There are all types of people on DU with all sorts of life experiences. Don't let it get you down.
Many of us have family members who have served or are still serving. You have to let it roll off your back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:40 AM

32. when did you become so widely read on DU that you can be the judge of it?

you read one or two stupid posts, which are not unusual here. Suddenly we're all anti GI?

Thank you for your service. And please back off on calling us all alike and all anti-military. We aren't even all anti-war here. Although I think you could say that we value the humanity of the soldier and are quite skeptical about the war machine and what it does to everyone who is involved in it.

And rape is a crime. Being a soldier doesn't excuse you from that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:50 AM

34. never has been a "sin"

we have supported military families through out the oil wars. maybe if you have been here as long as many of us have you would`t make that claim.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:16 AM

35. I think there has been some ham fisted posts lately

I agree with what I think they are trying to say, they are against MIC, unjustified war, gitmo, individual military member misconduct, and "supporting the troops" in the suburban republican sense.

However, to me supporting the troops is not kissing their ass. It is not spitting on them in an airport. It is making sure the disabled are taken care of. It is treating them with respect whether or not you agree with whatever war we are fighting at the moment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Setsuna1972 (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:21 AM

37. Thanks for your service



I think DU's history is one of members overwhelmingly supporting troops and vets. Some members currently serve on active duty or in the Guard or Reserve, and many more of us are veterans. But the membership is fairly diverse, and you'll see a range of views expressed on these topics.

I came back from Vietnam to be called "baby-killer" and other names on my first pass out of an Army hospital. At the time, I didn't take that as a personal offense to me. But that was only because I was thinking more of the guys in my unit and what those good men still were going through there that some here didn't have a clue about.

I was also dealing with my own guilt for not being there with them, even though I had the perfect excuse for that. It took me many years to come to terms with my feeling that I'd abandoned them and with the other undeserved guilts I felt.

One poster used the term 'ham-fisted,' which applies to some posts on the topic that are less than clear and precise in expressing a viewpoint. Sometimes, you have to read downthread to find the additional qualifiers and further exposition.

Lately, threads on this topic seem to have boiled down to two ideas:

1) That those who enlist "share" in responsibility for everything the U.S. military does because they "knew" about that before they signed up. Though some posters stridently deny that they share in that responsibility as citizens and voters.

2) Troops and vets expect and demand "worship."

Of the two, #1 at least is something that can be discussed. But #2 is anything but fact-based, and is as nutty as some of the things we hear from the Tea Party Patriots.

What I hear from the many returning vets I talk to is how much they're struggling and how much they need the VA to be there for them NOW, not after having to wait many months for an appointment. Many feel embarrassed when they're thanked for their service. And when they're thanked by a VN vet, they often protest that "We didn't go through anything like what you guys did." We have to point out to them that we only had to do ONE involuntary tour, and we didn't get stop-lossed past our DEROS or ETS.

Demanding worship? Hell, the men and women I'm seeing are struggling just to fucking survive...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread