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Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:56 PM

 

Nobody cares about the national debt....

If anybody cared the Clinton Tax rates for everyone would have been allowed to go into effect.

Republicans cried like babies the entire past 4 years about the national debt and when it came time to do something about it they cried that taxes were going to go up to address the very debt they were bitching about.

If the national debt were such a problem, you'd think you'd see it reflected in interest rates for T-Bills. But we don't have a problem getting others to buy T-Bills because investors know we are the safest most secure place you can park your money. Interest rates are low. Obviously investors don't have a problem with our debt.

The only threat to our credit rating is crazy-assed Republicans trying to sabotage the economy.



26 replies, 1593 views

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Nobody cares about the national debt.... (Original post)
IWelcome TheirHatred Jan 2013 OP
merrily Jan 2013 #1
IWelcome TheirHatred Jan 2013 #3
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #4
merrily Jan 2013 #5
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #9
merrily Jan 2013 #11
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #14
merrily Jan 2013 #19
unblock Jan 2013 #2
merrily Jan 2013 #7
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #22
merrily Jan 2013 #23
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #6
merrily Jan 2013 #8
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #13
merrily Jan 2013 #20
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #21
merrily Jan 2013 #24
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #25
bongbong Jan 2013 #26
Kaleva Jan 2013 #10
merrily Jan 2013 #12
Kaleva Jan 2013 #15
Igel Jan 2013 #16
IWelcome TheirHatred Jan 2013 #17
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #18

Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:00 PM

1. I was with you until the last sentence and maybe even then.

I am not sure if you meant the crazy assed Republicans who hold office, or the ones who control media, or the ones who lobby, or the ones who just vote. But, yeah, all of them and some Democrats, too.

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Response to merrily (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:03 PM

3. Debt-ceiling hostage takers...

 

those crazy-assed Republicans.

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Response to merrily (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:30 PM

4. It was the Republicans who held the previous debt-ceiling hostage and cause the downgrade...

...of our credit rating.

So yes, it is, strictly, the republicans causing all the problems with the debt and debt ceiling...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:42 PM

5. We are working off some of the same facts, but may see them differently.

I don't see all Democrats aa blameless.

And we haven't gotten to Wall Street, Standard & Poor's, etc. who, contrary to memes, are not all Republicans by any stretch.

Or everyone in government and media, Democrat and Republican, who for the last several months has been acting as though the world would end, and certainly no one should lend us anything at reasonable rates ever again, if we went off the cliff. (NBC.)

And so on.

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Response to merrily (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:49 PM

9. Ok, can you translate that into standard logical English please...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:54 PM

11. I believe the problems with the credit rating had, and continues to have, causes broader than

just Republican votes on the debt ceiling.

And, I have been nothing but civil to you, so please feel free to ask me to clarify a post without feeling a need to imply that I am illogical and illiterate in my native tongue.

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Response to merrily (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:59 PM

14. My apologies... But, on to the topic...

It was strictly the Republicans who held the debt ceiling hostage last year.

Raising the debt ceiling means we, America, pays the bills already put on the credit card.

I hope this makes sense to you...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:07 AM

19. Thanks for the apology. On the topic: I felt a goalpost move.

Please let's go back to my Reply number 1, which began this subthread and therefore this discussion.

My Reply 1 responded to the OP. The OP was not limited strictly to the debt ceiling vote. Rather, the OP said in pertinent part,

'The only threat to our credit rating is crazy-assed Republicans trying to sabotage the economy."


As I posted already, I do not agree with the assumption that "threat to our credit rating" is limited strictly to how Congress votes on a debt ceiling vote.

For instance, no one holds a gun to head of Standard and Poors and forces them to lower our credit rating whenever Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling on some time schedule that is touted as the absolute, final, drop dead deadline (at least until the deadline passes, whereupon people say the deadline was not really hard and fast).

Nothing stops Standard & Poors from saying, okay, they did not raise the debt ceiling, but let;s be real. The United States is still an excellent credit risk."

I also see the hysteria coming from Wall Street, the media and government officials of both parties 24/7 for months over a Grand Bargain or a deal--ANY deal-- as endangering our credit rating. it's kabuki and it doesn't make us look like adults. And so on.

And so on. If you don't understand my point yet, I don't think i can make it clearer, so i give up.

Or, you may disagree with me and insist our credit rating is about the vote on the debt ceiling and only the Republican vote on the debt celing ceiling. And that is fine. I will think you mistaken, which is also fine.

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Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:02 PM

2. if republicans care about the debt they would never have supported shrub's tax cuts.

the economy was doing just dandy back then, despite the contractionary effects of running a surplus.

the "fiscal responsibility" crowd should have been all over paying down the debt, and if a democrat were president, you can bet your bottom dollar they would have been screaming for that.

but when a republican is in the oval office, republicans sing a completely different tune.
deficits are mandatory when republicans get to decide how it's done.

in short, the republican policy is: hey, you democrats pay our bills and save up some money and we'll spend it and then some. thanks!

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Response to unblock (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:47 PM

7. Or Obama's 2010 tax cuts?

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Response to merrily (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 10:38 AM

22. You said the magic word

Obama.

If he wanted it, Republicans opposed it.

We just had the spectacle of a Republican from the Gulf coast of Mississippi voting against hurricane relief funds.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:51 AM

23. That would have done that with any Democratic President.


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Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:47 PM

6. If Republicans cared about deficits they wouldn't have started 2 wars without raising revenue.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:48 PM

8. Or "surged" in either of those wars without raising revenues?

ETA "without raising revenues" to clarify.

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Response to merrily (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:58 PM

13. At LEAST make an attempt. Starting 2 wars while lowering taxes? This isn't rocket science.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:22 AM

20. I agree with you, but we did also surge in both wars without raising revenues and

a great deal of that was bipartisan.

Many Democrats in Congress voted for all of it--Iraq, Afghanistan, WOT, including the surges, but did not vote for tax increases until just now and in fact voted for cuts in 2010.

IOW, I am not objecting to the idea of raising revenues. I am taking issue with blaming it on Republicans annd only Republicans.

I can easily see how that helps politicians, but I am not at all sure how that helps the rest of us.

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Response to merrily (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 10:30 AM

21. But it was a complete Republican administration investigation that promised/lied about WMD's .

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 02:53 AM

24. Bottom line, it was a bipartisan decision.

Even as a layperson, without the power of Congress to call witness, do its own investigation, etc. and without studying the Middle East, I did not buy that Hussein was in cahoots with Ben Ladin. So was the notion that he could attack the U.S. at any moment.

No one who knows diddly about the Middle East or about Hussein bought either of those lies, not even the average Egyptian teenager. Both were laughable propositions.

If I knew better, so did people of both parties in Congress.

Not sure why anyone who is not in politics to one degree or another wants to pretend that only one Party is to blame for ailed this nation and what still ails it.

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Response to merrily (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:09 AM

25. Yes, based on false pretenses drummed up by a complete republican administration.

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Response to merrily (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:21 AM

26. ????

 

> Many Democrats in Congress voted for all of it--Iraq

Misleading statement, altho' you're technically correct by using "many". A majority of Democrats in the House voted against the Iraq War resolution.

A slight majority of Dems in the Senate voted yes. The word "slight" is significant since they were told lies about WMD from the repig-controlled intelligence community. If they didn't get fed that deluge of lies, they very well might have voted differently.

Pesky facts.

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Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:53 PM

10. I've read many comments by Repubs about the need to reduce spending.

To what end? A small to medium reduction in spending still leaves an increase in our national debt. And the only way the debt can be paid is if the budget runs a surplus for years and years. Nobody who I've seen arguing strcikly for spending cuts has come forth with a plan on what to cut in order to first balance the budget and then also generate a revenue surplus.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:55 PM

12. You have not read those comments from anyone but Republicans?

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Response to merrily (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:00 PM

15. My Rep is a Republican and lots of Republicans posting on his Facebook page...

imploring him to cut spending but not to vote to raise any taxes. Many of them are quite upset about his voting for the fiscal cliff package.

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Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:46 PM

16. Flashback.

It's 2008. Home interest rates are low. Morgage-based securities are trading freely.

Nobody cares about the housing price increase. Those complaining about a "housing bubble" are babies.

If the mortgage burden were such a problem, you think you'd see it reflected in interest rates and hesitation over getting into the housing market for speculation. Obviously investors don't have a problem with the outlook in the housing market.

The only threat to the viability and future prospect of the housing market are the crazy-assed Republicans who tried to limit the mortgage industry. Even that was only once, and a pathetic, feeble attempt.


Point: When investors suddenly decide that they don't want T-bills we'll be so screwed it won't be funny. Until then, everything'll look great.

Oddly, many (D) objected to the outrageously high deficits in the '00s when job creation was about the same as now. The deficits were a national disgrace then and a drag on the economy; now they're stimulative.

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Response to Igel (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:53 PM

17. Total nonsense

 

The US is the safest investment to make. We have the power to tax and the power to print because we control our own currency

In order for investors to all act in unison and flock from the dollar means there is something else out there that is a safer more secure investment

No such animal exists

Next you'll be telling me we're "on the road to being Greece" ... Oy

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Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:26 AM

18. True, the dollar is the benchmark.

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