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Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:18 PM

In Case You Missed This... "The Criticism Has Irritated The White House..." - NYT

On the Left, Seeing Obama Giving Away Too Much, Again
By PETER BAKER - NYT
Published: January 1, 2013

<snip>

WASHINGTON ó For President Obama, the fiscal deal passed by Congress on Tuesday finally ends four years of debate with Republicans about raising tax rates on the wealthy. But it seemed to reopen a debate within his party about the nature of his leadership and his skills as a negotiator.

While Mr. Obama got most of what he sought in the agreement, he found himself under withering criticism from some in his liberal base who accused him of caving in to Republicans by not taxing the rich more. Just as Speaker John A. Boehner has been under pressure from his right, Mr. Obama faces a virtual Tea Party of the left that sees his compromise as capitulation.

The main difference is that in the Obama era, the Democratic establishment has been less influenced, or intimidated, by the left than the Republican establishment has been by the right. Liberals have not mounted sustained primary challenges to take out wayward incumbents the way conservatives have. All but three Democrats voting in the Senate and 16 in the House supported the compromise on Tuesday, even as most House Republicans balked, giving Mr. Obama more room to operate than Mr. Boehner.

But the wave of grievance from liberal activists, labor leaders and economists suggested that the uneasy truce between Mr. Obama and his base that held through the campaign season had expired now that there was no longer a threat of a Mitt Romney victory. It also offered a harbinger of the presidentís next four years.

The criticism has irritated the White House...


<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/us/politics/some-liberals-say-obama-squandered-his-tax-leverage.html?_r=0



74 replies, 6143 views

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Arrow 74 replies Author Time Post
Reply In Case You Missed This... "The Criticism Has Irritated The White House..." - NYT (Original post)
WillyT Jan 2013 OP
sadbear Jan 2013 #1
Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #8
DearHeart Jan 2013 #63
UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #69
Myrina Jan 2013 #2
JoeBlowToo Jan 2013 #6
spanone Jan 2013 #23
JoeBlowToo Jan 2013 #60
forestpath Jan 2013 #11
datasuspect Jan 2013 #3
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #4
No Compromise Jan 2013 #27
Hotler Jan 2013 #5
sendero Jan 2013 #7
forestpath Jan 2013 #9
No Compromise Jan 2013 #28
Autumn Jan 2013 #10
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #43
LWolf Jan 2013 #12
DJ13 Jan 2013 #14
MuseRider Jan 2013 #21
No Compromise Jan 2013 #29
hopemountain Jan 2013 #49
socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #64
greyghost Jan 2013 #34
leftstreet Jan 2013 #22
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #13
tk2kewl Jan 2013 #15
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #16
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #17
barbtries Jan 2013 #18
No Compromise Jan 2013 #26
barbtries Jan 2013 #31
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #44
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #54
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #59
barbtries Jan 2013 #67
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #48
Autumn Jan 2013 #50
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #19
riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #61
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #20
MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #24
magellan Jan 2013 #30
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #68
Autumn Jan 2013 #25
Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #36
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #55
tblue Jan 2013 #32
MuseRider Jan 2013 #35
historylovr Jan 2013 #47
forestpath Jan 2013 #52
DearHeart Jan 2013 #62
tpsbmam Jan 2013 #65
magellan Jan 2013 #33
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #37
grantcart Jan 2013 #38
Number23 Jan 2013 #70
Liberalynn Jan 2013 #39
CranialRectaLoopback Jan 2013 #40
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #45
stupidicus Jan 2013 #41
Milliesmom Jan 2013 #42
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #46
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #56
bowens43 Jan 2013 #51
tavernier Jan 2013 #53
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #57
HangOnKids Jan 2013 #58
WillyT Jan 2013 #66
Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #71
Cha Jan 2013 #73
LineLineLineLineNew Reply .
Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #74
lonestarnot Jan 2013 #72

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:22 PM

1. Hell yeah...

We got him elected...now it's time to hold his feet to the fire.

I'm glad the White House is irritated. It means they're paying attention to us.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:32 PM

8. Exactly.

He couldn't have been elected without the consent, cooperation and collaboration of the left. He'd BETTER pay some attention to this part of his base.

There's an easy way for him to relieve his irritation, although it will result in the transmission of the irritation to some Turd Wayers.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:06 PM

63. I agree! Their irritation is only beginning! :D nt.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:28 PM

69. He's had nothing but disdain for us all along.

 

He has as much love for liberals as Reagan did.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:26 PM

2. Aww, he's irritated. Isn't that cute?

Those of us who've been shat on for the last 12 years and lied to for the last 4 years know what it's like to be irritated.

Would be nice if the guy we saw in the campaign ads & rallies actually showed up this time around.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:30 PM

6. He's got his walking shoes...wait...actually those are his bedroom slippers...

 

We are the "useful idiots," to use Vladimir's descriptive phrase.

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Response to JoeBlowToo (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:59 PM

23. speak for yourself

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Response to spanone (Reply #23)


Response to Myrina (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:33 PM

11. +1

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:27 PM

3. "Sire, the peasants are revolting!"

 

"yes. they are. indeed they are."

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:28 PM

4. I am glad he is irritated .............

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:35 PM

27. +10000

 


let's keep it up

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:29 PM

5. Now is not the time to point fingers.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:32 PM

7. I agree with the last comment..

... in the article. This deal isn't great, but it isn't bad either. The key test is how it sets us up for the numerous upcoming negotiations, particularly the debt ceiling deal.

The administration and its boosters claim this deal leaves us in a good bargaining position, but I just don't see how. We will see.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:32 PM

9. If Obama doesn't want us to irritate him, he could start keeping

 

his campaign promises.

Just a thought.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:36 PM

28. and not too much to ask I might add

 



It is absurd he expects us to follow along with his bad decisions as if logic has no meaning.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:33 PM

10. Sometimes criticism is good. Some of it has been well

deserved. Tell you the truth, after the chained CPI offer the next four years kind of make me nervous.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:28 PM

43. "the next four years kind of make me nervous" -- and the four after that are terrifying

If Americans had a chance to see what life was like under real Democrats -- those who stand up for everyone and not just the rich...

If we could stop worrying about our safety net being ripped away...

If we could stop worrying about whether we can actually afford health insurance...

If our civil rights weren't constantly under attack from both sides...

Then, we might relax, enjoy life, and make something of our time here.

I think the US would gravitate toward that if they ever saw it happening.

I think the Dems would be in the majority for a long time.

BUT: We won't see what a real Democratic (and democratic) world is like because the D party has been transforming into the R party's admiring little brother.

So the public will just keep flipping back and forth between the two.

So the next president will probably be an R.

And few will be able to tell the difference.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:34 PM

12. GOOD.

This line points out the whole problem:

"Mr. Obama got most of what he sought in the agreement."

He got what HE sought.

He didn't seek what the left wanted. A consistent pattern with him.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:42 PM

14. +1

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Response to LWolf (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:57 PM

21. True.

I am not sure he actually listens to anyone of his constituents. If he did we would have had a great fight for single payer and the chained CPI would never have been uttered out of his mouth.

You are exactly right. He needs to be made to listen, problem is we have little way of doing that anymore.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:38 PM

29. "He needs to be made to listen"

 


we need to find a new way to do that, something we haven't tried before, something they are not expecting....

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Response to No Compromise (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:45 PM

49. maybe we need to be more "squeeky"

and irritating - in "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" kind of way.
hmmmmmm.

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Response to No Compromise (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:52 PM

64. Well, a nationwide general strike and an occupation of DC.....

would probably get ALL of their attentions. But I guess we aren't ready to get serious yet.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:01 PM

34. Well said.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:59 PM

22. +1

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:38 PM

13. Feet? Meet FIRE.

The president himself asked for this and it was delivered.

I can believe he now understands more clearly the balance between third way new dems and the rest of the party.

No doubt that understanding will have an impact on the next 4 years.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:51 PM

15. shut up and eat your peas

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:57 PM

16. He'll feel better after he nominates Hagel, Obama

seems to get a charge out of standing up with a Republican with a history of anti gay hate speech at every important moment in his career. It is the Rick Warren Moments that he cherishes, so bipartisan, but never bisexual!!!!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:58 PM

17. President Obama, we are not Republicans...

Progressive/liberal/Democrats fight for what is right... and not in lockstep as you may want us to do...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 02:59 PM

18. clearly he can't win.

in his position there is absolutely no way he can make everyone happy. i am satisfied that he is serving the people to the best of his ability. that's my opinion. he has to constantly fight the bullshit corporate media and the intransigent republicans who oppose any and every proposal he presents. and he has to deal with criticism from the left. but that's his job. i'm surprised he lets it irritate him.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:33 PM

26. "he is serving the people to the best of his ability" we must make him strive to be more

 


I think he is able to serve the people over corporations, he CAN do better.

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Response to No Compromise (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:44 PM

31. maybe.

maybe he differs from me philosophically in ways that will never make me happy. time will tell.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:31 PM

44. I have a hard time dealing with extra-judicial murder of US citizens -- at the whim of one man --

"philosophically".

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:24 PM

54. And, of course, he is going to pass on this murder-of-US-citizens-on-a-whim to the next occupant.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:06 PM

59. Absolutely right.

And an absolutely right-wing thing for him to do.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:47 PM

67. a perfect example

so do i.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:40 PM

48. That's the op's account. I haven't heard the president say he's "irritated", have you?

Consider the source.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:14 PM

50. He already won. Twice. Now we make sure we don't lose.

I'm very surprised that anyone that would know says the White House is irritated because Obama strikes me as someone who just doesn't get irritated. But if he is, too bad.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:29 PM

19. So who is the "a virtual Tea Party of the left"

the author is referring to?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:47 PM

61. I saw that too and wondered. Its interesting that Obama is "hearing" us enough to be irritated now

however. So whatever is meant by the virtual Tea Party of the left is (finally) getting his attention.

That's good. If he only gets pushback from the right, then it seems axiomatic that he gets pushback from the left.

I like it.


(still wondering where I find Leftish Tea Party rallies however... I feel so left out )

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:47 PM

20. Hey, I know, let's all get pissed off and not vote in 2014! Oh, wait....

....isn't NOT voting in in 2000, 2004, and 2010 a major part of what got us into this mess??

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:20 PM

24. Speak for yourself; I voted in each of those years.

 

And trust me, President Obama, your irritation is nothing compared to the sense of betrayal at your unnecessary chained CPI offer or my renewed sense of distrust toward YOU, so I'd call it more than even.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:39 PM

30. +1 n/t

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:14 PM

68. I've voted for every Democratic Party nominee for President since 1972....

....and I believe I've earned the right to voice my opinion about any DU topic, thank you very much.

Here's something else you won't like...I learned a long time ago that what a President says in public is not necessarily what he believes privately.

Here's something else you won't like...feel free to get as irritated as you want, but it's a pure waste of time and effort.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:33 PM

25. Well you should have voted. Hope you learned your lesson.

I haven't missed an election in 40 years.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:07 PM

36. Let's get all pissed off and start primarying Conservadems.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #36)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:24 PM

55. Absolutely.

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:48 PM

32. If we don't push from The Left, the only pushing will be from the Right.

And, as for being 'irritated.' Spare me. There's plenty of irritation to go around. We are not children! And we sure ain't his children!

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Response to tblue (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:03 PM

35. Seems a little patronizing doesn't it?

Irritated? Well we are damned scared in some parts. Angry in others. Broke, unemployed and we have tons of ideas that work. None of which you will even entertain. We could care diddley squat about this legacy you seem to be looking to establish on the backs of those who elected you. We are being frightened out of our wits, ya know this is our very life you are playing with here. Maybe just numbers to you, may be just political points to you, may be just legacy building to you but we have to learn to live with it and live well enough that we don't have starving children or uneducated children. Or so we don't all fall into some massive hole in the highway going 70 MPH because the money was spent helping the wealthy save more or to kill thousands of other people around the world we don't know and have no problem with since they are only civilians and your drones seem to suck at missing them.

Irritated? How about concerned about us? How about that? Sorry we are irritating you sir but if you recall WE ARE YOUR BOSS and you are not doing what we need to climb out of the hole we are in let alone doing the things we believe in and thought you did too, well some did anyway.

Irritating. Sounds like something my father used to say when we made too much noise for his nap.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:39 PM

47. Well said! nt

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:20 PM

52. +1

 

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 08:03 PM

62. EXCELLENT POST!!

That's exactly what I've wanted to say, but couldn't put it into words!

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:10 PM

65. BINGO! n/t

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:52 PM

33. WTH does he expect?

He continues to compromise with the far right from a center right position. It doesn't take a genius to see that the people who actually elected him are getting diddly squat from that equation. Maybe he should start dancing with those who brung him - twice.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:07 PM

37. It isn't about left or right, it is about what is best for the country.

If President Obama becomes swayed by the bullies in the right wing of the Republican Party who represent only a minority of Americans as was seen in the last election, the entire country loses.

The so-called "left" today is not demanding extremist policies but rather is asking the President to defend long-standing Democratic values.

If that is too much, I don't know what we are going to do.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:07 PM

38. More BS, trying to stir up a storm among the left.


Baker quotes Trumka twitter initial reaction to the deal.

After he had a chance to read the full details Trumka had a different response:



From the front page of the AFL-CIO

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Trumka-s-Statement-on-the-Fiscal-Cliff-Agreement

The agreement passed by the Senate last night is a breakthrough in beginning to restore tax fairness and achieves some key goals of working families. It does not cut Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid benefits. It raises more than $700 billion over 10 years, including interest savings, by ending the Bush income tax cuts for families making more than $450,000 a year. And in recognition of the continuing jobs crisis, it extends unemployment benefits for a year. A strong message from voters and a relentless echo from grassroots activists over the last six weeks helped get us this far.

But lawmakers should have listened even better. The deal extends the Bush tax cuts for families earning between $250,000 and $450,000 a year and makes permanent Bush estate tax cuts exempting estates valued up to $5 million from any tax. These concessions amount to over $200 billion in additional tax cuts for the 2%.

And because of Republican hostage taking, the deal simply postpones the $1.2 trillion sequester for only two months and does not address the debt ceiling, setting the stage for more fiscal blackmail at the expense of the middle class.

Instead of moving to address our nationís real jobs and public investment crisis, our leaders will be debating a prolonged artificial fiscal crisis. In the weeks to come, as the confrontation over the economic direction of our country continues, the working men and women of the AFL-CIO will continue to fight to keep poor and middle class families from giving more so rich people can continue paying less. That means a fairer, more progressive tax system, an end to Bush tax rates for the 2% and protection of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid from benefit cuts.




By separating the tax cuts out and now forcing the Republicans to negotiate on each specific spending reduction and attaching further revenues to any tax cuts the President has clearly out manouvered the Republicans and that is why the Republcians are crying rivers of tears and progressive leaders like Trumka are giving full throated endorsement of the strategy.

But you are free to cherry pick statements to make it appear otherwise and manufacture a completely false image of large segments of the left being upset about the deal.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:29 PM

70. The clues (for the apparently clueless) are all there

Mr. Obama faces a virtual Tea Party of the left that sees his compromise as capitulation. Being compared with the Tea Party should give any thinking person pause. But the insinuation that the left doesn't even have the power of the Tea Party, read that they are a "virtual" Tea Party shows a level of impotence that is absolutely staggering.

Liberals have not mounted sustained primary challenges to take out wayward incumbents the way conservatives have. That definitely explains why the URL of the article is "SOME liberals say... blah blah" about the deal. The ones doing most of the vocal opposition are apparently either impotent or in an extreme minority, no matter how vocal.

Still, most Democratic lawmakers accepted it, however reluctantly, concluding that voting against it could cause greater economic disruption. Many liberals grew more comfortable once they learned more about the deal, and the revolt on Tuesday by House Republicans seemed to rally them behind the plan and against a common adversary.

In other words, it's the weekend and we're looking for a good story. This wasn't it.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:07 PM

39. I agree with Jared Bernstein

the plausibility will be determined after the negotiations over the debt ceiling.We will have to wait and see what happens next. In the meantime all we can do is keep the pressure on the WH and Congress Critters to protect the Social Safety net through calls, emails, and letters.

That's their job to listen to the citizens. It shouldn't irritate them.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:09 PM

40. It's called "Making him do it"

 

Or was that also just campaign BS?

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Response to CranialRectaLoopback (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:35 PM

45. It was just campaign BS.

You can't make the POTUS do anything.

Most attempts to make him do anything would be federal crimes.

You can tell him what you want, and he can ignore you...and that's it.

When he says "make me", don't picture an advocate for the people trying to get things moving...

Instead, picture yourself telling a bully to stop hitting you...

And he says, "Make me!"

That's what we're dealing with.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:15 PM

41. well, perhaps he should practice that empathy thing

he's frequently sought to use as a club, and mocked by his rightwingnut victims for wielding.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:17 PM

42. ?????

Some of the comments sound like Republican comments. Anyone making negative comments should watch "The Last Word " on Thursday.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/04/very-last-word-on-negotiating-tax-bills/


I think people really need to look at all our President has completed even with obstruction from the right and far right. Instead of holding his feet to the fire, how about having his back? I wish many more would have held Bush's feet to the fire instead of crying about it after the fact!!

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Response to Milliesmom (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 05:37 PM

46. There was nothing we could do to hold Bush's feet to the fire, either.

And we were up against a chorus of his followers telling us that we should just blindly support him.

That didn't help then.

It isn't helping now.

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Response to Milliesmom (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:34 PM

56. No, none of "the comments sound like Republican comments." They are the exact opposite.

 

No one here is critizing Obama in the way that Republicans do for being a Democrat, for being Black, etc.

All of us here (including you, probably) would cheer him if he were to enthusiastically take action consistent with traditional Democratic values and those promises that he made when he campaigned in 2008 and 2012.

Those who are criticizing his actions in this string are doing so because he not taken action consistent with traditional Democratic values and those promises that he made when he campaigned in 2008 and 2012.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:20 PM

51. Good. I'm pretty fucking irritated by the fact that he caved yet again....

Many here want to give him a free ride because he has a (D) next to his name on the ballot. I'm not one of them. He caved and did for the conservatives what W couldn't do, permanent tax cuts for the majority of the wealthy while raising taxes on the poor and middle class....

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:23 PM

53. Scrolls to top of page...

Yep, I am on the right website. Damn, could've sworn there for a minute that I wandered into freeperland by mistake.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:37 PM

57. Actually, you might be on the wrong page. The BOG on DU is found here:

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 06:43 PM

58. What Would The Site Do Without You?

 

You are so helpful!

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 10:31 PM

66. Kick !!!




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Response to WillyT (Reply #66)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:25 AM

71. Instead of kicking your own thread

Perhaps you could go back and address this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2132554

That you (and your fans) completely ignore posts that expose and take issue with this particular brand of cherry picking spin, this thread is just another exercise in the art of shit stirring.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #71)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:40 AM

73. Excellent suggestion, Bobbie Jo

Hey there

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Response to Cha (Reply #73)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:44 AM

74. .

Hey Cha! Glad to see you back in action.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:29 AM

72. I am pissed at them too Mr. President. They haven't heard about the close the loopholes plan yet.

Assholes.

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