"Women's groups condemn use of 'harmful' stereotypes in media"

and bookmark. Can't wait to get home and sit down and absorb the links. Thanks!

That's like calling regulations tyranny, IMO. These women are asking for respectful treatment and fairness. That's it.

rs. Trying to get rid of Page 3 and the ilk. In the US that can't be done because of the 1st Amendment. If a government board is determining what you can and can't publish that is the textbook definition of censorship.

About the on-line stuff we are in agreement but enforcing that sort of thing again runs into problems when the government is doing it.

on edit: I reread all this and it seems that I missed your point entirely. I'm gonna leave it up so everyone can see my ignorance. Cheers.

so that really isn't something we'd need to worry about.

We tend to self censor as society's values evolve. We've come a long way on messages that promote racism, but not so far on sexism.

keep 'em coming redqueen.

you know I will.

Thanks. Should be interesting. Kick

these issues don't seem to get quite as much attention on this side of the pond, sadly.

To conservatives and GOP types and particularly to the Evilangelists it is ok to speak as long as you tow "their" line. Speak out for equality or women's rights and you are fair game. The GOP hate machine is aimed at more than just liberals, homosexuals, transgenders, labor, unions, Democrats etc. The hate and vitriol is directly aimed at women with a particular vengeance. All women are to these miscreants is "reproductive machines" who must stay at home. They live in the same universe as the Taliban or radical Islamists.

Women must fight back against this march to the middle ages.

Try stating that you're not a fan of rape-themed porn here on DU and see how quickly a lady gets ordered back to the kitchen so the men-folk can talk. Pardon the pun but maybe we need to clean our own house first -- and the men are free to share the chores.

And while I defended a woman's right to work in adult films I suggested that perhaps we needed a culture shift -- not government censorship -- to tell that audience that rape should not be entertainment. Apparently my sins in this are unforgiveable.

It is also here at 3. Almost ANY thread topics pertaining to women, rape, violence against women or similar ultimately is sprinkled with dudes or male identified women who claims,"not my Nigel" or the ubiquitous "what about the men"? let us also not forget the man-splainin' going on (basically everywhere).

'Now listen up lady, I'll tell ya all about how you should feel'. They don't even realize they do it most of the time. Pitiful really.

If there is a thread pertaining to rape, is it wrong or sexist to bring up the ongoing problem of male rape as well? Male rape - especially when it occurs in prisons - is a subject that tends to elicit giggles and "well they probably deserve it" attitudes, even here on DU.

joke and giggles about male rape in prison comes from men and you will about always hear women challenging that.

i think it is disgusting that people, men, giggle about that. it is a too big problem that is ignored (in my opinion) by the people that run prisons.

if it is specifically addressing a womans concerns, like date rape, then yes, it is inappropriate to bring up (it deflects and minimizes the issue discussed). if it is a discussion on rape as a whole, sex trafficking, i never gender specify because a lot of rape is our children and boys are included.

n/t

I agree, rape is NEVER a laughing matter. Whoever "giggles" and claims "they deserve it" needs a verbal slapping.

Once again though, exactly WHO are the rapists? Bottom line, men are the primary perps of violence, sexualized or otherwise. Period.

that speak of women the way i hear on this board. i have grown up around conservative men. i married a conservative man that believes in social issues as a liberal. i hear us bash the conservative man and i told someone last night, NO ONE i hang out with, grew up with, live with, talk to or about women like i hear on this board.


on edit... the conservative men i know also have no desire to keep women in the kitchen. they also are not real religious, if religious at all. they are not all santorums

... and it might even be considered sexist to some degree .... but I was raised in the South and it has been drilled into my head since childhood to treat a lady with respect (and a certain degree of deference). This is something that I may have in common with many of the less-hateful conservative men, and may explain some of your experiences.

it isnt just the south.

or the bedroom.

The couch works good too!

may lead to a lot of misunderstanding.

Surely you're not saying that the left-of-center types that post here are "just as bad or worse" than social conservatives who want to ban abortion and oppose the Lily Ledbetter Law.

not all repugs are the rw religious nuts that we hear speak the loudest. my inlaws are repug and had to sit out of last election (first time in life) because of attacks on gays and left their catholic religion they loved so, because of that issue.

i am certainly not saying all men on du. many many men do not perceive women in this manner and speak out for women. i have more men that pm me and express support and their views, but wont say anything in a thread because of the attacks on them and not wanting to get in an argument. so i get it is a small portion of du.

but like i say... i am getting old and i dont know men like this. they dont think, talk, behave like this toward women. never have, never would.

my father voted obama, first time democratic vote, ever. hubby voted kerry and obama.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002224530

when we go into freeperland and come back in a titter with

Hillary is a
gifford is a
pelosi is a

and we call them knuckle draggin rw misogynists.

lets remember

3 to 3

brewer is a





At Thu Jan 26, 2012, 11:53 AM you sent an alert on the following post:



REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

The poster could have used many different words to describe Brewer, but he choose an offensive, sexist term.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jan 26, 2012, 12:04 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: I agree with the alerter. Even with astricks, it's obvious what word the OP meant. He could have chosen another adjective to describe Brewer instead of a sexist one.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with the person who sent the alert. A different choice of words would have been better.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Everyone could benefit from gaining a few more vocabulary words. I would love to be able to read all of the threads on DU with my grandchildren looking over my shoulder. I can't do that now.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

It's most people, of both sexes.

We have been conditioned to accept unfair treatment for so long that most people don't even see it. And even if they do, most write it off as no big deal.

from what I have witnessed are nearly as misogynistic as conservative dudes. When it comes to the ladies they meet on the same place on the circle. They just took two different paths to get there.

The left-of-center types who post here do not want to outlaw abortion or overturn the Lily Ledbetter act.

While there's always room for improvement, saying that DUers are "as bad or worse" than FReepers when it comes to women's equality is like saying Obama is as bad as Bush.

In fact, I challenge you to a test of your idea. Try posting this same OP over at FreeRep and let me know how it turns out for you.

whether barefoot in the kitchen, or their whore... it is still about repression. and we are saying no.

i know a lot of men dont get, that it is equally as offensive. but, it just is.

patronizing, sexualizing women, conservatives and liberals are quite similar.

I stand by that. Instead of crying about "fairness" you and other men who never patronize, never sexualize women figure out how to stop your male comrades who do. Women can not do it alone. It's not "fair" to women who are on the receiving end of such hostility.

the response would be equivalent to what you get here?

Why don't you try it to see?

task to discuss this subject here at DU. Now why in the name of (fill in the blank) would I or anyone else care to invest energy on this topic there?

And why are you spending so much of your awesome non- threatening energies asking?

With all of your non-threatening, non- violent ways, can't YOU help with the cause? Call one of your male friends today! Ask them to help stop the violence against women. Thank you in advance.

are responsible for correcting sexist men.

Isn't that like saying that you personally are somehow responsible for the KKK, because they are also white? Or that the moderate Muslims have to "reign in" the terrorists?

having difficulties with reading comprehension?

Did I say "only"? somewhere? What I said was women can not fight this ourselves, there needs to be the good guys to assist. I am certain you are a good guy. You good guys really need to stand along with the good fight. Being acrimonious to this messenger is futile for the large picture.

my white friends? why do i challenge my moneyed friends?

i have all the dirt, i am right there next to them, i am them and they hear me better than someone on the outside.

yes

i feel i have a responsibility and obligation to speak up and out to those that are mine. every. single. time. regardless of the cost to me.

Misogyny isn't limited to abortion and equal pay.

If anyone said or implied 'as bad or worse', then I missed it.

then the common ground of language is no longer common and we really can't communicate.

I'm interested at getting a meaning, and you're interested in equivocating and shucking-and-jiving.

ON EDIT:

QUOTE from this thread: i have never been around men that speak of women the way i hear on this board. i have grown up around conservative men. i married a conservative man that believes in social issues as a liberal. i hear us bash the conservative man and i told someone last night, NO ONE i hang out with, grew up with, live with, talk to or about women like i hear on this board. END QUOTE

*****

If that isn't lib men are "as bad or worse" than cons, I don't know what.

You could point out where you think I wasn't clear/where the common ground of language is breaking down, or you could mock my attempts to discuss things as 'shucking-and-jiving'.

If you were actually and truly interested in getting a meaning, I'd have expected the former.

QUOTE i have never been around men that speak of women the way i hear on this board. i have grown up around conservative men. i married a conservative man that believes in social issues as a liberal. i hear us bash the conservative man and i told someone last night, NO ONE i hang out with, grew up with, live with, talk to or about women like i hear on this board. UNQUOTE

*****

That is what I meant by discussion devolving into "Lib men are as bad or worse" as Cons. I think my conclusion is reasonable given that is exactly what people are saying here.

you responded to someone else and I was basing my responses on her comments.

That said, I wouldn't interpret seabeyond's post the way you did... simply because I would assume she's talking about a few people, and not all liberals on this board. I don't think it's unreasonable to say a few liberals can be very misogynistic, and in some contexts (notably treating women as sex objects first and foremost) that it might be worse here than in a conservative forum or neighborhood. I don't think that implies that *all* liberal men are as bad or worse as conservatives. I would interpret her words with fewer absolutes.

group.

saying.... the men that say shit about women on the board already implies it is not ALL du. it is absurd that one has to go to such lengths to get across it is not ALL men. and i specifically said conservative men i am with so that surely implies only SOME conservative men.

not to mention, the poster asked for clarification and the next post i gave him exactly that. it is wonderful to have the opportunity to clarify. but, then poster ignored my clarification to make his point. that is not so wonderful.

"i am certainly not saying all men on du. many many men do not perceive women in this manner and speak out for women. i have more men that pm me and express support and their views, but wont say anything in a thread because of the attacks on them and not wanting to get in an argument. so i get it is a small portion of du. "

But consider that some people consider these kinds of threads to he examples of 'man-bashing'.

So, yeah.

"i am certainly not saying all men on du. many many men do not perceive women in this manner and speak out for women. i have more men that pm me and express support and their views, but wont say anything in a thread because of the attacks on them and not wanting to get in an argument. so i get it is a small portion of du. "

for me to say, all my life, i have been around mostly conservative men, and all my life i have had NO man talk the way SOME men on du talk about women, is my own personal experience. i cannot help that you do not like it. it could be because i was lucky in life, being around good people, regardless of political association. it could be i would not allow someone around me that would not be respectful to me. it could be, living in the panhandle of texas, 95% republican, it is inevitable who i choose to have around me are going to be republican.

Are you really trying to change hearts and minds, or is this just a pity party?

Nobody is having a pity party, but it's disingenuous to claim these problems are limited to one part of society, that's all.

QUOTE: When it comes to patronizing, sexualizing women, conservatives and liberals are quite similar.

I stand by that. END QUOTE

Also QUOTE: Liberal dudes from what I have witnessed are nearly as misogynistic as conservative dudes. END QUOTE

I agree that when the topic is patronizing and sexualizing women, there is a difference, but it's not as big as many feminists perceive that it should be, given our understanding of equality and dehumanization when the target is a religious or ethnic group.

That doesn't sound sexist at all!

Jeez, mistertrickster, all that we're trying to say is that in our culture-at-large females are sexualized at every. single. turn. By males, regardless of their party politics.

Last I checked, one wasn't required to be a card-carrying republican to *enjoy* pornography. Or even most television for that matter.

until someone named the perpetrators of sexism in the media.

Now it's: "not fair"!1!!1 Whaaa!1!

By "equally guilty," I mean opposing policy like Lily Ledbetter equal pay act, the Equal Rights Amendments, Abortion rights.

not about any particular *women's rights* issue and what men think about them.

And, please, the ERA?! It's been introduced virtually every single year since 1923. That's coming up on 90 years there, brother.

Where are the archives of 90 years-worth of liberal men marching/voting in favor of it? Show me.

track when Libs were compared unfavorably to Cons.

Your objection is my objection.

does this *need* to be explained to you, MT?

"Libs" were not "compared unfavorably to Cons". It's an equality issue, dude.

not really true. when dealing with this issue i think it is very important to be aware and recognize this is not only about conservative men or religion. that was the point of the off topic



"To conservatives and GOP types and particularly to the Evilangelists it is ok to speak as long as you tow "their" line. Speak out for equality or women's rights and you are fair game. The GOP hate machine is aimed at more than just liberals, homosexuals, transgenders, labor, unions, Democrats etc. The hate and vitriol is directly aimed at women with a particular vengeance. All women are to these miscreants is "reproductive machines" who must stay at home. They live in the same universe as the Taliban or radical Islamists.

Women must fight back against this march to the middle ages."

But they are always entitled to have their say without being belittled or marginalized.

one piece of advice.

(i am bad at remembering sayings, really bad, think bush, bad)

something about women being right 100% of the time even if it is only 80%. i dont know. but it is stupid. i thought insulting. FIL is always saying it. condescending.

but it isnt a joke. i think we need to quit with that joke. and i know you werent saying that.

but you are right. ha ha. women are not always right. it is a given. why do we play otherwise.

One of the things I like about DU is that, unless you take the time to look at profiles, you usually don't know the gender of the people who are posting. That helps make for a level playing field, I think. Some people, of course, make their gender clear, but most don't. I have no idea, most of the time. I like that.

the tired stuff about women always being right is as played out as the one about men always being ... anything. It's one thing to engage in attempting to wring a few more laughs out of those dusty old jokes... but quite another to promote disturbing ideas about women (that they're objects, responsible for being raped, bring violence on themselves, etc.)

From the article...

"She added: "We do have to ask ourselves what kind of story this tells, especially to young children, when they see in mainstream newspapers men in suits, men in sports attire, men as active participants and women as sexualised objects."

Thanks for posting redqueen... always a pleasure to see your posts.

I was really torn about what points to include in the excerpt. That's one I really wanted to include, so I truly appreciate it.

When you read the links and some of their embedded links, there are many issues being touched upon including:
- Page 3/porn presence in daily newspapers/tabloids
- Women columnists/commentators/writers getting nasty emails

The first one is not an issue in the US. We like our porn in color glossy format or on a computer monitor. The public in the UK can solve this by not purchasing those papers. Making tabloids adhere to TV standards just doesn't seem workable, at least not in the US.

The second is not just limited to women, but admittedly men would not be sent rape threats. Instead it is against their families. BTDT. Within the US is they are valid threats, the cops should step in. If they are not, the recipient should file it or hit delete. If they are of a sporting nature, publish them with the IDs of the authors if possible. Nothing says what a dogfart some is than to have their trash posted with their online identity or real life identity attached. Note that would be libel in the UK, even if it were true.

Laws against boorish behavior are not the answer. Social pressure is. ASBOs may be allowed in the UK, but would never fly under US law. When something becomes unacceptable it ceases to be.

There is no comparison to the amount of abuse that female journalists and bloggers get. Male bloggers and journalists do get abuse, but nearly as much, and not nearly as much of it is sexualized.

I do agree with your method of dealing with it, which is to name and shame and get the police involved if warranted.

In addition, I would hope that more people of both sexes will stop simply rolling their eyes and ignoring sexism when they see it. Very few would react with silence if they encountered racist views.

Which is why I contrasted them. The difference in the legal systems and remedies are much larger than many realize. ASBOs are not possible in the US.

Overt sexism should be denounced and often is, though there can be some dispute if a particular action is sexist or not. It is the more covert sexism that will be the hardest to overcome and will be the longest lasting.

Especially that last part, re: covert sexism. The status quo is not just tolerated but championed.

In the UK, the truth is not a defense. The issue is if it hurt the reputation of the other party.

LOL just kidding!

Since the UK rules are so different than US ones.

or treated like "the enemy" because of their gender.