HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » At this point in our hist...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:22 AM

 

At this point in our history the 2nd amendment is a de facto terrorist instrument

When thousands of people line up to buy military weapons to oppose a fair election they don't like or after a mass murder using such weapons, we basically are being blackmailed by terrorists. It's time to quit ignoring reality. It's time to call a spade a spade. Notice how the NRA apologists and their rightwing allies are trying to delegitimize shootings of "urban" kids as "gangbangers" just like they try to delegitimize urban voters.

65 replies, 3311 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 65 replies Author Time Post
Reply At this point in our history the 2nd amendment is a de facto terrorist instrument (Original post)
MightyMopar Jan 2013 OP
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #1
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #2
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #37
RandiFan1290 Jan 2013 #3
Recursion Jan 2013 #4
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #5
Recursion Jan 2013 #6
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #7
Kingofalldems Jan 2013 #8
LAGC Jan 2013 #10
pipoman Jan 2013 #9
lunatica Jan 2013 #11
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #13
lunatica Jan 2013 #18
friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #59
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #12
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #14
billh58 Jan 2013 #25
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #15
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #16
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #19
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #32
oldhippie Jan 2013 #40
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #43
oldhippie Jan 2013 #62
CTyankee Jan 2013 #24
Robb Jan 2013 #17
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #20
Robb Jan 2013 #22
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #23
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #36
Robb Jan 2013 #39
aikoaiko Jan 2013 #41
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #30
Robb Jan 2013 #38
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #44
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #49
Robb Jan 2013 #51
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #54
Robb Jan 2013 #55
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #56
Robb Jan 2013 #57
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #58
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #21
CTyankee Jan 2013 #26
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #27
CTyankee Jan 2013 #28
Ter Jan 2013 #53
CTyankee Jan 2013 #60
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #64
Ter Jan 2013 #65
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #29
CTyankee Jan 2013 #31
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #48
CTyankee Jan 2013 #61
IWelcome TheirHatred Jan 2013 #33
MightyMopar Jan 2013 #34
ileus Jan 2013 #35
Bucky Jan 2013 #52
JoeyT Jan 2013 #42
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #45
Coyotl Jan 2013 #46
Herlong Jan 2013 #47
Bucky Jan 2013 #50
Coyotl Jan 2013 #63

Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:29 AM

1. Agreed. We should have the 2nd Amendment repealed on the grounds of being unconstitutional.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:35 AM

2. The Constitution is designed to be amended or reinterpreted

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 03:39 PM

37. Actually, there are portions of the Constitution that would be unconstitutional....

....but for them being in the Constitution.

The electoral college, for starters. Not to mention the original text and the whole 3/5ths thing....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:37 AM

3. Do you listen to RW radio?

They really want to use their guns on you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:51 AM

4. Oh for Christ's sake

If you want to know why gun control keeps getting nowhere, this OP is an example...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:53 AM

5. I think there's a reason for that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:54 AM

6. IHBT?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:03 AM

7. Yeah that opposition after the election was fierce.


Much plinking was done in protest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:08 AM

8. Here they come to save the day!

That means the gungeon is on its way!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:38 AM

10. Looks like I'm late to the party!

The Gungeon has already arrived.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:25 AM

9. Sounds like the same kind of creative definition of

"terrorist" used by Bush and the patriot act lovers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:46 AM

11. This debate hasn't even started yet

President Obama will bring it up in the State Of The Union Address and he just promised he was going to do something about it.

I would like to see reasoned arguments rather than emotional extremism, but it won't be the first time I don't get what I want.

I do think it's possible to have rational dialogue although that doesn't seem possible nowadays.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:01 AM

13. We couldn't even manage a tax hike on the 250K bracket

 

At BEST Congress will pass some meaningless feel good nothing. When the government goes after guns three things happen:

1. MORE people buy guns. It happens every time.
2. Politicians lose elections and parties lose majorities.

And, if the government is foolish enough to start actually going after gun owners...

3. Tragedy.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:56 AM

18. You just made my point a reality

Why would the government go after gun owners unless they're breaking the law? Really. Why?

That isn't going to happen. And as for Tragedy. What do you call the murder of the children in Newtown?

Obviously we can't have a reasonable dialogue when people keep screaming about how they're gonna shoot anyone who comes near your guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:23 PM

59. Exactly! If they're not doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

<flips SARCASM switch to "Off">

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:46 AM

12. Gun nuts are ignorant evil terrorists and they refuse to have a rational discussion!

 

The above is sarcasm.

I don't care enough about this non-starter of an issue to have a strong opinion either way. But the many threads like this one are getting to be so obnoxious that they are almost forcing me to slide over to the pro-second amendment side of the debate.

Anyway, we get it:

You REALLY hate guns and gun owners!!!

But in the meantime Guns are legal and protected by the Second Amendment. And even if the last remaining copy of the Constitution were accidentally misplaced and that right no longer applied, the government STILL wouldn't even try to pass any kind of meaningful gun restrictions. The only way the American people will give up their guns is if they decide to do so on there own. Threads like this one don't help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:46 AM

14. if Moslems or commies did the school shootings we would spend billions chasing them dowm

 

and rescind all kind of liberties on the home front.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:43 AM

25. Uh, no guns are NOT

protected by the 2nd Amendment -- people are protected by the Constitution as a complete document.

The 2nd Amendment does not prohibit gun control, as was affirmed by the right-wing, Republican 5-4 Heller decision. Only the NRA prohibits sensible gun control through the outright buying, and bullying, of politicians. The 2nd Amendment is not the enemy, the NRA and it's corporate sponsors are the enemy.

And, you are wrong about the American people. Only knuckle-dragging gun fetishists would be willing to break the law when sane gun laws are passed. Reasonable law-abiding citizens who own guns are already calling for more stringent control of guns, as are most Americans who are fed up with the mass murders of innocent people.

The "cold, dead hands" NRA insane mantra is rapidly losing its message, and the attempts to induce fear into the discussion by insinuating that "they're coming for your guns," no longer holds water. The pendulum has begun to swing toward reason and sanity, and realistic gun regulation will begin in the near future. Deal with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:49 AM

15. Is this the rational discourse that has not been able to take place until now?




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:51 AM

16. Doesn't sound irrational to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chorophyll (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:03 AM

19. It does to me.


Free speech is a instrument of terrorism.

Voting is an instrument of terrorism.

Due process is an instrument of terrorism.

Virtually any civil liberty can be used by criminals/terrorists to do bad things, but we are cautious about limiting them and we don't have to resort to extremism to discuss regulations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:40 AM

32. Except that free speech, voting, and due process do not involve deadly weapons.

So, no. Virtually any civil liberty cannot blah blah blah.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chorophyll (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:09 PM

40. But obtaining and keeping those things did involve deadly weapons .....

.... pretty much through all human history. I am currently studying medieval English history and the genesis of English common law. It is pretty much a story of constant armed struggle against regime after regime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oldhippie (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:35 PM

43. That's one way to look at history. But it isn't the only way.

You can look at it through the development of agrarianism, art, language, religion, disease, food -- almost anything. The fact that we teach history mostly through the medium of armed struggles says a lot about what we value as a society.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chorophyll (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:15 AM

62. True that. But you were the one that ...

... brought up the subject of deadly weapons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chorophyll (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:43 AM

24. Nor to me. I find it supremely rational and realistic.

I love it when the Delicate Flowers burst into tears...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:55 AM

17. That's fringe thinking.

The fringe however always defines the debate. We eventually arrive at the middle, but the middle is found between the two extremes.

Anyone who claims to want reasonable gun safety laws needs to support you, because you balance the fringe on the other side. Shouting you down now only means they do not in fact want reasonable compromise, but rather favor the "nut" end of things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:05 AM

20. We reject both extremes as unreasonable. Its not that hard to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:16 AM

22. To the contrary.

You're doing the "gun nuts" work for them by shouting down the extreme gun safety position.

Why would you do that, in advance of the greater debate, if you were not in support of the "perspective" of the fringe gun advocates?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:33 AM

23. Because extremism is a bad place to start debate.



I'll shout down anyone who says anti-2nd Amendment proponents are aiding terrorists or that everyone should have guns at all times, too.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 03:38 PM

36. The gun pushers could have negotiated a better in the past but going forward............

 

The gun pushers could have negotiated a better deal in the past but going forward the new electorate is going to see them as more Teapublican overreach. Once the gerrymandering starts to collapse it will get very ugly for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aikoaiko (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:45 PM

39. Meh. A "shouting down" strategy only telegraphs the weakness of a position.

It's not sustainable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:12 PM

41. Maybe, but crazy talk definitely reveals weakness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:13 AM

30. Because extreme gun control wouldn't advance safety.

Simple, really...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 05:42 PM

38. If it were so simple, you would not be in such a panic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:36 PM

44. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:22 PM

49. Me? Okaaaay...

Golly, I never met someone who could discern a person's emotional state over the interwebz!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:37 PM

51. It's not hard, you're not particularly subtle about it.

Again, I don't blame you. Were I the one lining up with these assholes, I'd be pretty panicky too.

The company you keep.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:46 PM

54. Actually, it's impossible.

That you actually think you can deduce this about my emotional state from my posts on a message board tells me pretty much every thing I need to know about your ability to contribute to a rational discussion. Hey, no problem! Comic relief is a valuable service.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:49 PM

55. U mad?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:15 PM

56. Nice follow up.

Nothing like chanspeak to reinforce my impression of your ability to offer anything of actual value. Y'know, I just purged my ignore list a couple days ago...full amnesty. You were on it, of course. I realize now what a good decision that amnesty was. This is some funny shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:16 PM

57. Keep on digging.

I'll play with your next incarnation, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:18 PM

58. Next incarnation?

Oh, God...this just gets funner every post. Do go on...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:13 AM

21. "Call a spade a spade" but call the Constitution a "terrorist instrument"?

What about that sounds exactly like the sort of common sense that Obama said should be used to help solve the problem?

Can you not see that lede is going to put off a clear majority of Americans?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:46 AM

26. Nope. The 2nd A is being used as a terrorist instrument and I agree with the OP.

This is why that amendment should be eliminated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:54 AM

27. Well, good luck with that.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:56 AM

28. thank you for wishing me luck!

May your wish come true...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:45 PM

53. Careful what you wish for

 

Repealing it would lead to Civil War 2, and the Union wouldn't win that time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ter (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:26 AM

60. You have a vivid imagination, I must say...

altho given some of the online conversations i've had with gun folks, I am not surprised at the sentiment, since I've heard variations of it that are "interesting."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ter (Reply #53)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 07:43 PM

64. And why wouldn't the Union win that one

 

Silicon valley will have the south reduced to 1861 all over again in hours with stuxnet viruses!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:23 AM

65. Because for a cause this good, the Union would not hold

 

n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:11 AM

29. And those acts of "terrorism" would be...?

Do recall that terrorism is violence committed for political gain...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:27 AM

31. do you like "terrorization" better?

Last edited Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

"causing terror" in the hearts of teachers and first graders before they are slaughtered?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:20 PM

48. It's less of a misleading usage, sure. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 01:44 AM

61. No, we must always use correct usage when describing atrocities, musn't we?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:43 AM

33. There is no need for assault weapons in the hands of American civilians. Period.

 

The 2nd Amendment does not give anyone that right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IWelcome TheirHatred (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:25 AM

34. One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

 

Many white christian heterosexaul men are threatened by the rise of a multicultural, multiracial majority that treats women , LGBT, atheists, muslims, etc as equal partners.

Whenever they brag about how many guns their buying, it's a threat to us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 11:28 AM

35. I wish my new upper would arrive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ileus (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:38 PM

52. How many "uppers" do you have to take to deal with OPs that stupid?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:44 PM

42. So is the first. I'd just as soon keep it anyway.

"Tiller the Baby Killer" kind of stuff, white power rallies, and crazy-assed anti-abortion groups are all protected by the first amendment until they actually do something illegal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JoeyT (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:38 PM

45. And those illegal things often involve guns. Tiller being the case in point. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:44 PM

46. You mean our well-armed militia has finally scared the shit out of them readcoat Brits?

It all depends on the reading!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 08:52 PM

47. I wouldn't do away with the 2nd Amendment

 

And I definitely wouldn't associate it with terrorism. Not in a million years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 09:37 PM

50. Okay you win

congratulations

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 09:23 AM

63. What if women defended reproductive rights with guns?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread