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Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:25 AM

One of the most disingenuous criticisms of the deal:

It ends the payroll tax cuts, which raises taxes on everyone earning less than $100,000.

When the payroll tax cut was enacted, a lot of people claimed it was a secret plot by President Obama to undermine Social Security. Now, it's a good thing?

Even those who supported it as stimulus acknowledged that it had to be temporary.

Should the President work to bring this back and make it permanent?

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply One of the most disingenuous criticisms of the deal: (Original post)
ProSense Jan 2013 OP
Dawgs Jan 2013 #1
ProSense Jan 2013 #4
dawg Jan 2013 #2
ProSense Jan 2013 #7
dawg Jan 2013 #13
GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #16
dmallind Jan 2013 #17
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #3
Make7 Jan 2013 #5
ProSense Jan 2013 #10
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #6
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #8
jillan Jan 2013 #9
bowens43 Jan 2013 #15
ProSense Jan 2013 #20
malaise Jan 2013 #11
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #12
bowens43 Jan 2013 #14
JaneyVee Jan 2013 #18
MineralMan Jan 2013 #19
Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #21

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:28 AM

1. "Everyone claimed" is a bit of a straw man, no? n/t

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:30 AM

4. You're right, fixed. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:29 AM

2. No. Those cuts shouldn't be permanent.

But it's probably a little soon to be raising taxes on the working class - especially when compromises have been made to prevent income taxes from rising on the $250K to $450K crowd.

Someone making $30,000 working a job will see their taxes go up. An investor pulling down $400K a year will not. (Except for Obamacare provisions.) Some people don't think that is fair.

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Response to dawg (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:32 AM

7. "But it's probably a little soon to be raising taxes on the working class"

When it was enacted that was the argument supporters used, and still only as a temporary measure.

How can it possibly be the argument being used by those who thought then that it undermined the program?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:44 AM

13. I never argued that it undermined the program.

I preferred the Making Work Pay tax credit, but the payroll tax cut did not reduce contributions to the Social Security trust fund. The provisions of the law required the general fund to take the hit for the reduced collections.

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Response to dawg (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:39 AM

16. Hook. Line. Sinker.

You fell for it.

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Response to dawg (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:43 AM

17. Not true. Capital gains and dividend taxes went up 5%

That's where an investor gets their income, no?

And of course they will see the same 2% SS bump too.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:30 AM

3. It has been a frequent Left position that the FICA holiday is an attack on Social Security

To deny that is silly.

It is certainly a turn around to now have the FICA holiday be the key provision that should have been retained.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:30 AM

5. You mean people that earn over $100,000 don't pay payroll taxes? ( n/t )

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Response to Make7 (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:37 AM

10. Sure, up to $110,000 of everyone's income.

Still, the point is that the criticism being made is that it raises taxes on low-and middle-income Americans. It's a tax increase on everyone, but you can see why the critics are focused is on those earning less.

The point is not the income levels, but the fact that many of these critics never supported the payroll tax cut originally, and believed that it undermined Social Security.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:31 AM

6. Difficult to offer a Social Security Payroll Tax cut when Social Security is in trouble

They keep telling us the program needs to be changed to keep it solvent, how can you put less into it and still make those claims?

Either the program is doing so well, we can cut the amount we contribute or it is doing poorly and needs reform, people are going to have to choose which pony they are going to ride.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:33 AM

8. Not everything is black and white, shades of grey are allowed

For the average working person this will look like a tax increase and you can bet any portion of your anatomy you wish that the Republicans will spin it that way with the enthusiastic help of the M$M.

That rhetorical ploy was guaranteed when the payroll tax holiday was first implemented.

Most working people don't pay enough attention to politics to sort out the spin from reality, we here on DU are pretty far from the average American when it comes to information about politics and the disagreements right here are damn near legendary.





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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:36 AM

9. No! It was a temporary tax cut, and unlike GOPers, Dems understand the meaning of temporary. nt

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Response to jillan (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:45 AM

15. You're kidding right?

The entire bush tax cuts were temporary and last night democrats made the vast majority of them permanent .

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 11:41 AM

20. No, it's not a joke.

The Bush tax cut for the top one percent is history.

Capital gains goes to 23.8 percent and a tax increase also applies to incomes at $250,000
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022116613

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:39 AM

11. What I don't understand is any notion of permanence

for a money bill.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:40 AM

12. I consider that the biggest positive, funding to Social Security was restored.

No, he shouldn't bring it back it was an error to ever give it because many Democrats are about as anti-tax as TeaPubliKlans. The differ mostly in who they want to pay. Klans want to make the poor and working folks to take the weight and Democrats want the rich to pick up the tab. There is a broad bipartisan consensus that they don't want to pay.

I think the old rates should have been restored for all too. I'd leave or maybe expand the cut for the bottom bracket (which I am not in) and start investing in the country.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:44 AM

14. we are the party of tax cuts=stimulus now, so let's make them permanent...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:44 AM

18. We'll be thanking Obama for this in the long term.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:45 AM

19. Remove the cap on SS contributions. If we can slip that

in during one of these negotiating frenzies, that will be most excellent.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 11:44 AM

21. The pay roll tax cut was a temporary measure

the extension of the other tax cuts for the 98% of the population I believe to be also temporary once they are up in five years and the economy is doing better (just a hunch).

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