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Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:26 PM

POTUS just said that Medicare is the biggest contributer to our deficit....

but not one cent of our current deficit was caused by Medicare.


WTF?



I tend to be pretty Pro 'Bama here but that quote bothers me.

89 replies, 6365 views

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Reply POTUS just said that Medicare is the biggest contributer to our deficit.... (Original post)
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 OP
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #1
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #17
bama_blue_dot Jan 2013 #23
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #35
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #29
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #33
dkf Jan 2013 #37
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #32
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #38
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #57
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #61
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #63
snappyturtle Jan 2013 #76
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #79
Lasher Jan 2013 #86
snappyturtle Jan 2013 #89
octoberlib Jan 2013 #2
CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #5
NotThisTime Jan 2013 #15
octoberlib Jan 2013 #28
flamingdem Jan 2013 #3
CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #9
flamingdem Jan 2013 #12
Amonester Jan 2013 #34
Hekate Jan 2013 #36
flamingdem Jan 2013 #81
quinnox Jan 2013 #4
Hekate Jan 2013 #41
phleshdef Jan 2013 #6
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #10
phleshdef Jan 2013 #25
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #43
phleshdef Jan 2013 #50
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #53
phleshdef Jan 2013 #55
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #62
phleshdef Jan 2013 #64
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #66
phleshdef Jan 2013 #68
Democracyinkind Jan 2013 #78
phleshdef Jan 2013 #80
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #70
dkf Jan 2013 #7
Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2013 #8
GoCubsGo Jan 2013 #11
dkf Jan 2013 #13
Yo_Mama Jan 2013 #44
dkf Jan 2013 #49
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #59
GoCubsGo Jan 2013 #69
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #82
Motown_Johnny Jan 2013 #71
GoCubsGo Jan 2013 #73
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #14
dkf Jan 2013 #21
pipoman Jan 2013 #16
Cha Jan 2013 #19
pipoman Jan 2013 #45
Octafish Jan 2013 #18
frazzled Jan 2013 #20
dkf Jan 2013 #26
karynnj Jan 2013 #72
bigtree Jan 2013 #75
Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #83
lpbk2713 Jan 2013 #22
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #24
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #27
ProSense Jan 2013 #30
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #31
dkf Jan 2013 #39
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #46
dkf Jan 2013 #51
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #54
dkf Jan 2013 #58
Samantha Jan 2013 #48
Hoyt Jan 2013 #85
bowens43 Jan 2013 #40
Hekate Jan 2013 #42
seabeyond Jan 2013 #65
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #84
TXDem72 Jan 2013 #47
dkf Jan 2013 #52
Recursion Jan 2013 #88
Faryn Balyncd Jan 2013 #56
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #60
siligut Jan 2013 #67
dawg Jan 2013 #74
Zen Democrat Jan 2013 #77
Recursion Jan 2013 #87

Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:27 PM

1. What? No mention of endless war?

60+% of our budget is devoted to the military and Medicare is the culprit?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:35 PM

17. Wrong

The breakouts between defense, SS and Medicare are pretty even:

Defense and international security assistance: In 2011, 20 percent of the budget, or $718 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities. The bulk of the spending in this category reflects the underlying costs of the Department of Defense and other security-related activities. The total also includes the cost of supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, funding for which totaled $159 billion in 2011.

Social Security: Another 20 percent of the budget, or $731 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided retirement benefits averaging $1,229 per month to 35.6 million retired workers in December 2011. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.9 million spouses and children of retired workers, 6.3 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 10.6 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents in December 2011.

Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs - Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) - together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2011, or $769 billion. Nearly two-thirds of this amount, or $486 billion, went to Medicare, which provides health coverage to around 48 million people who are over the age of 65 or have disabilities. The remainder of this category funds Medicaid and CHIP, which in a typical month in 2011 provided health care or long-term care to about 60 million low-income children, parents, elderly people, and people with disabilities. Both Medicaid and CHIP require matching payments from the states.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:39 PM

23. thank you

for these stats..

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Response to bama_blue_dot (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:54 PM

35. Too bad it is a magician's trick that includes SS in the Federal budget...

and much of Medicare is paid through FICA tax.

See post #32 for a more accurate data. As pointed out, during the Viet Nam war the Feds started including SS & Medicare in the Federal Budget in order to hide the cost of war.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:46 PM

29. Did you forget that SS and Medicare are paid for thru FICA

We the people pay for these programs therefore...therefore do not contribute to the deficit

One note that I am still researching, Medicare Part D might be paid for thru the General fund.

But other that - what BS is Obama talking about...?

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:51 PM

33. Yep, see my post #32

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:56 PM

37. Only hospitals part A is funded with a payroll tax.

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:50 PM

32. Hahaha! SS is not part of the budget. It is a stand alone program

And your figures do not include past military obligations.

This is from 2009. If I feel like it, I'll find more up to date figures (there will be little difference.)



The government practice of combining trust and federal funds began during the Vietnam War, thus making the human needs portion of the budget seem larger and the military portion smaller.

The pie chart below is the government view of the budget. This is a distortion of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g., Social Security), and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.



http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:58 PM

38. 100% of social security is paid for by a dedicated tax taken from workers only -- not from income

 

taxes.

combining medicare, medicaid & chip is illegitimate. a large part of the funding of medicare *also* comes from a dedicated tax on workers.

medicaid otoh is pure 'welfare,' funded through the income tax.

bullshit on your misleading breakout.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:39 AM

57. You are conflating the two SEPERATE budgets. SS does not contribute one nickel to the deficit.

Social Security is a separate pool of money from general revenue.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #57)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:42 AM

61. Until the government raids the trust fund for revenue

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:43 AM

63. Which is a felony. Illegal. Why we fight.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:49 AM

76. I've been operating under what I thought was fact: SS is part of the budget only because

the gov't. has to pay back what it's taken from it in the past. Doesn't SS fund itself?

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #76)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:58 AM

79. Yes and no

...Democrats look at those trust funds and see actual assets, built up over time, that must be honored.

In their view, the general fund — which is now making payments to Social Security to cover the cash flow shortfall — has benefitted greatly over the past 30 years from annual Social Security trust fund surpluses that were invested in Treasury securities. In other words, Social Security has helped finance deficit spending in the rest of government – rather than contributing to those deficits. So any cash flow problem should be viewed as a deficit in the general fund rather than in Social Security.

The counter-argument is that this is just paper-shuffling among different parts of the U.S. government.

Ultimately, those bonds are part of the overall U.S. national debt. In other words, it doesn’t matter what happened in the past with Social Security monies; what matters is whether Social Security is generating enough money today to pay for its bills on its own. The plain fact is that it is not, and thus it adds to government’s overall fiscal imbalance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/updating-a-ruling-social-security-and-its-role-in-the-nations-debt/2012/11/29/1cd3e8aa-3a68-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_blog.html

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #79)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:10 PM

86. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but it matters a great deal to me.

I don't particularly care what the general fund did with the money it borrowed from the Social Security trust fund. But I expect the general fund to pay back all the money it has borrowed from the general fund, as planned for the past three decades. Payroll taxes are not supposed to be generating enough money today to pay all Social Security obligations. That is why we paid extra payroll taxes all these years to build up the trust fund.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #79)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:50 PM

89. Thanks for your explanation. nt

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:28 PM

2. What about defense and all these wars???

Never any mention of that.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:29 PM

5. Perhaps when he referred to the "bills that Congress incurred"

that was part of it. Just because he didn't enumerate every detail in a brief statement doesn't mean it's out of mind.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:34 PM

15. I'm sure that's what is being referenced and that means 2 wars and Medicare part D

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:43 PM

28. Very true. Didn't think about that. nt

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:28 PM

3. wtf?

Why did he even need to mention that?

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:31 PM

9. Because he knows the GOP is all hot to get rid of Medicare

He's getting the jump on the inevitable upcoming fight. It needs to be made more efficient, not DESTROYED.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:33 PM

12. Okay, that makes sense

I'm just getting mad ahead of time at what they're trying to pull.

Obama will not let them raise the Medicare age I believe but remember -- he put that on the table.

This is a problem I have with him -- he throws these things out but and then they get a foot in the door.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:53 PM

34. The problem isn't a real one, because the traitoRs say all these stupid things to please their...

minority of Billionaires, and when they have to face the facts that actually doing their destruction won't get them re-elected, they back off.

They R crazy.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:55 PM

36. The GOP was out for it regardless; Obama didn't open the door for them, they were barging in

What he has done and is doing and will do is to set the boundaries. It needs reform, whatever name you call it by -- for gods' sake the insurance companies and drug companies are still screwing us all blue and that part of Medicare needs reform because that part of Medicare is costing us dearly. Obama is not going to allow the GOP to destroy Medicare, but I think what Democrats need to do is get behind the cost-cutting reforms that will in fact benefit us all, rather than continually reacting to the GOP agenda as though it were the only agenda available.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:08 PM

81. Good point about going on the offensive

this round. The GOP are losing credibility and without strong leadership they can be more easily contained.. except for the complete crazies.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:29 PM

4. and didn't the Bush tax cuts cause a huge shortfall as well?

 

The one he is just about to sign into law, 98% of them, permanently?

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Response to quinnox (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:03 AM

41. Are you saying the 98% should have their/our taxes go up too?

Just asking, because what he got was a tax increase on the wealthiest, and I think the 98% appreciate that. I also know damn well that a lot of people at DU and elsewhere would bitch like crazy if their taxes went back to pre-Bush levels -- and Obama knows it too.

Bush Junior was, as we all know, a piece of work. The little SOB made this measure last 10 years so it would land smack on the next president and would falsely look like a tax increase. He sent everyone a $300 check, too. By the time he was done, the Clinton surplus was no more, but it was not just one thing it was the total.

As it happens, I have never resented paying my taxes. (I'm retired now, so the point is moot. However my husband is still working, so he/we are still paying taxes.) I always figured that education, welfare, social security, unemployment insurance and safe roads and bridges were worth it. So I was far from thrilled when Bush started this nonsense.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:30 PM

6. It IS the biggest driver of our deficit. He stated a fact,

Thats why we have to do something about the cost of medicine and treatment if we are ever to really tackle the problem in all seriousness.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:32 PM

10. Really. War eats up 60% of the budget and Medicare is the problem. Okey-doke.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:41 PM

25. We won't always be involved in a war. We will always be involved in Medicare.

Yes, we need to slash the hell out of defense spending. That still doesn't solve our problem with Medicare. Medicare's share of GDP is projected to nearly double over the next few decades. And healthcare costs are expected to only grow more and more rapidly. And unfortunately, people are paying less into Medicare than what its paying back out to them in terms of benefits. Thats just math.

Its certainly no argument to do anything to Medicare that would harm benefits. But you can't just sit there and ignorant the facts. Medicare IS the biggest driver of our deficit. And President Obama is 100% correct when he points that out.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:06 AM

43. we've been constantly involved in war since ww2; longer than we've been involved in medicare.

 

there's no sign this is going to change anytime in the future.

it looks more likely that medicare will go before war will.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #43)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:14 AM

50. I mean a real war with high financial costs.

I'm sure we will always be involved in aggressive foreign affairs. But I'm talking about the obscenely expensive stuff like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Regardless, Medicare is still the biggest driver either way. We've got to do something to make healthcare itself, as a product, cheaper.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:28 AM

53. These are real modern wars and they have high financial costs.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j0DTRe84yrE/TimpcVWSY7I/AAAAAAAAOOM/mM33q5J3ZtY/s640/defense+spending.png






We are spending about as much on the military today (inflation-adjusted $) than we did in WW2.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:32 AM

55. Your own linked chart pretty much proves my point.

If we got it back to the mid 90s levels, that would save quite a bit of money.... about 350 billion a year. Thats a lot of money over the course of a decade.

No one is debating that defense has to be slashed here. That doesn't change the fact that healthcare, as a product, is too expensive and its going to eventually break Medicare if we don't do something about it. And by something, I don't mean anything that would harm benefits.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #55)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:43 AM

62. bullshit. your point was 1) medicare is biggest driver of debt. it's not. over half of medicare

 

expenditures come *directly* out of workers' pockets, not from general revenues. Only 40% of medicare costs are funded from general revenues.

medicare was 16% of the combined (including SS, Medicare) federal budget in 2011 and workers paid more than half the cost *directly*, which means that the portion of medicare funded from the general budget was only 8% or less of all spending.

In contrast, Defense was 19% of all outlays.



All of social security and more than half of medicare is WORKER-FUNDED and has nothing to do with federal deficits.

Your other point was that we won't always have war (though we always have for the past 70 years), & that these aren't 'real wars,' and they're cheaper than 'real wars' (though we're spending as much in real dollars as we did on WWII.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #62)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:46 AM

64. Not bullshit because you are presenting the wrong data.

I'm frankly getting sick of repeating this, but its the biggest driver of FUTURE DEFICIT. Meaning over the next 25 years, the cost of Medicare is going to surpass everything else. Take it up with the fucking CBO. They are the ones telling us this.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #64)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:58 AM

66. Maybe you're getting tired because it's not true. Present deficits have been OVERWHELMINGLY

 

driven by military spending. That is the baseline status, and that is the deficit & interest cost that future deficit projections are founded on.

Future deficits are projections, and the projection that medicare will drive future deficits, though it hasn't driven past deficits, is based primarily on the assumption that health care costs (hospitals, medicine, personnel, technology) will continue to rise in double-digits.

Not medicare spending per se, but spending to the medical-industrial complex, for things like jacking up the price of a 200-year-old pre-FDA medicine 500%, and forcing all stroke patients to take prophylactic SSRIs.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:41 AM

68. It is true. No one with any credibility refutes it.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #68)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:51 AM

78. Judging from you exchange there, I'd consider it pretty much refuted.


"it is true" does not sound convincing when simply stated in a reply. Especially in a reply to a post that includes a graphic that shows it isn't true.

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:19 AM

80. Wow, I'm glad a shiny graph so easily distracts you.

The graph does not illustrate anything about the actual topic... which is future deficit projections. Future projections indicate that over the next few decades, Medicare is the biggest driver of the deficit. Period. This is coming from the CBO, its not just something I've made up.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:09 AM

70. That is simply false. Medicare has a surplus and is funded for many years to come.

Not one cent of the $16.4 Trillion debt is from Medicare.


Not One Cent!





Yes, maybe... after 2024 ... Then, and only then, Medicare may start to spend more than it has if some changes are not made by then. That is a true statement.


But none of our current debt is from Medicare.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:30 PM

7. Wrong wrong wrong.

 

Medicare part B and D is paid for with a premium equal to about 25% of costs and the rest is paid by the general fund which is funded with income taxes. There is no trust fund for B or D.

It is a direct contributor to our current deficit and drives future growth in the deficit.

The fund you have paid into is part A which pays for hospitals excluding doctors.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:30 PM

8. You are woefully misinformed.

 

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:32 PM

11. He is referring to Medicare Part D, I am assuming.

It's Dumbya's unfunded drug program that doesn't allow the government to negotiate drug prices with drug companies. And, as I understand it, Medicare Part D HAS contributed to the deficit.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:33 PM

13. Part B too which pays for doctors and outpatient services.

 

Only hospitals part A has a payroll tax trust fund.

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Response to dkf (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:06 AM

44. Which is rapidly expiring, because we don't pay enough in to cover the yearly cost.

Hospital insurance has been running at a deficit since 2008, meaning that the general fund is paying for chunks of it.

The general fund is designed to pay for big chunks of traditional Medicare, though - it always has.

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Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:11 AM

49. Yes the general fund is the largest payer.

 

HOW IS MEDICARE FINANCED?
Medicare is funded primarily from three sources: general revenues (40%), payroll tax contributions (38%), and beneficiary premiums (13%)

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-07.pdf

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:41 AM

59. Doesn't matter Big War and Tax Cuts are the biggest drivers of the deficit.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #59)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:16 AM

69. Sorry, but Part D is a big part of the problem, too.

We're paying often hundreds of times more than the rest of the world for our seniors' prescription medications thanks to this abomination. It's costing us billions, and it needs to be rectified NOW.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #69)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:47 PM

82. I have to agree with you there!

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:15 AM

71. Obamacare pays for part D. It was unfunded but now it is not.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #71)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:37 AM

73. Yes, but it's still costing us a heap of money.

Time to fix it. And, since we still have insufficient revenues, it is still adding to the deficit, regardless of whether or not Obamacare is paying for it.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:34 PM

14. He was probably referring to Medicare Part D. Relax!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:38 PM

21. And Part B-Doctors and outpatient services.

 

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:34 PM

16. Are we moving from 'medicare for everyone'

to medicare for no one?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:38 PM

19. No. We're. Not.

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:06 AM

45. Seems we certainly aren't moving closer to the former..

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:36 PM

18. Pentagon Develops Budget Invisibility Cloak

Trillions go in. Profits come out. Nothing is accounted. No one in authority notices.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:38 PM

20. Yes, it actually is

From the Congressional Budget Office’s hot new white paper, “Options for Deficit Reduction“:



That’s all of the federal government’s spending in three graphs. The top graph is health care, including Medicare, Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act. The middle graph is Social Security. And then there’s literally everything else: Defense, education, infrastructure, food safety, R&D, farm subsidies, the FBI, etc.

What these three charts tell you is simple: It’s all about health care. Spending on Social Security is expected to rise, but not particularly quickly. Spending on everything else is actually falling. It’s health care that contains most all of our future deficit problems.

These graphs are built atop what’s called “the current policy” baseline. The current policy baseline assumes nothing changes. We don’t pass any new laws. We don’t follow through on the hard parts — like the cost controls in the Affordable Care Act — of any of the laws we’ve already passed. We don’t raise taxes.
That won’t work for very long. Page 9 of the report includes this remarkable statistic: If we just continue on the way we’re going, then “spending for Social Security, Medicare, other major health programs, defense, and interest payments” will “nearly equal all of the government’s revenues in 2020 and would exceed them from 2022 onward — leaving no revenues to cover any other federal activities, such as income security programs, retirement benefits for federal civilian and military employees, transportation, research, education, law enforcement, and many other programs.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/09/the-single-best-graph-on-whats-driving-our-deficits/

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:41 PM

26. I knew it must be from Ezra Klein.

 

He puts together some great analysis.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:18 AM

72. Thanks for the wonderful summary

When the ACA was being worked on, the cost controls built into it were considered to be part of the solution to the overall problem. If done well, health care costs will be lowered, which should be doable because we pay about double the % of GDP on health care that the rest of the industrialized world does.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:42 AM

75. thanks

good summary

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:49 PM

83. Good post

This sums up the issue at hand.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:39 PM

22. Rethuglican obstructionism and their war on the middle class is the biggest IMO




And THEY are the reason this is the most useless Congress ever.


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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:40 PM

24. The President didn't say that.

The statement that I heard was that as more people age, Medicare will become more expensive and reforms that solve solvency concerns but which protects Seniors will be needed.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:42 PM

27. He needs to get ahead of it

But we need to watch like hawks.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:47 PM

30. It's linked to health care which is

why it is a big driver of the deficit.

<...>

Medicare, on the other hand, is a big budget problem. But raising the eligibility age, which means forcing seniors to seek private insurance, is no way to deal with that problem....The answer is to do what every other advanced country does, and make a serious effort to rein in health care costs. Give Medicare the ability to bargain over drug prices. Let the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created as part of Obamacare to help Medicare control costs, do its job instead of crying “death panels.” (And isn’t it odd that the same people who demagogue attempts to help Medicare save money are eager to throw millions of people out of the program altogether?) We know that we have a health care system with skewed incentives and bloated costs, so why don’t we try to fix it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/opinion/life-death-and-deficits.html


Krugman: It’s Health Care Costs, Stupid
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922243

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:48 PM

31. +1 nt

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:01 AM

39. That's a great piece by Krugman.

 

I don't know why progressives don't start here. It would free up so much money and maybe we could redirect it towards research which has the possibility of CURING people.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:06 AM

46. Facts: Medicare Trustee Report 2012

On edit: fix to the Part B ---- Sorry... Ok one more time...

First the link: http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2012.pdf

From the Medicare Trust Fund:

Part A :

In 2011, Medicare covered 48.7 million people: 40.4 million aged 65 and older, and 8.3 million disabled. About 25 percent of these beneficiaries have chosen to enroll in Part C private health plans that contract with Medicare to provide Part A and Part B health services. Total expenditures in 2011 were $549.1 billion. Total income was $530.0billion, which consisted of $514.8 billion in non-interest income and $15.2 billion in interest earnings. Assets held in special issue U.S. Treasury securities decreased to $324.9 billion.


Part B

In 2011, $170B was transfered from the Treasury to part B


Part D:

The total assets of the account amounted to $0.7 billion on December 31, 2010. During calendar year 2011, total Part D expenditures were approximately $67.1 billion. General revenue was provided on an as-needed basis to cover the portion of these expenditures supported through Medicare subsidies. Total Part D receipts were $67.4 billion. As a result, total assets in the Part D account increased to $1.0 billion as of December 31, 2011.

Table III.D1 presents a statement of the revenue and expenditures of the Part D account of the SMI trust fund in calendar year 2011, and of its assets at the beginning and end of the calendar year.


The 'revenue' for Part D is $53B is from the Treasury..



What I can conclude is that Medicare A & B & D cost the general fund $240 Billion

So, $240 B is what we pay for Medicare part B and D

Still, not the Grand Cause of our deficit...





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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:19 AM

51. The SMI fund counts as revenues it's contribution from the general fund

 

From your link.

"The SMI trust fund is adequately financed over the next 10 years and beyond because premium and general revenue income for Parts B and D are reset each year to match expected costs. Part B and Part D costs, however, have been increasing rapidly, having averaged 5.9percent and 7.2percent annual growth over the last 5years, respectively."

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-07.pdf

HOW IS MEDICARE FINANCED?
Medicare is funded primarily from three sources: general revenues (40%), payroll tax contributions (38%), and beneficiary premiums (13%) (Figure 3):

 Part A is financed primarily through a 2.9% tax on earnings paid by employers and employees (1.45% each) (accounting for 86% of Part A revenue). For higher-income taxpayers (more than $200,000/individual and $250,000/couple), the payroll tax on earnings increases by 0.9 percentage points, from 1.45% to 2.35%, in 2013.

 Part B is financed through general revenues (72%), beneficiary premiums (25%), and interest and other sources (3%). Beneficiaries with annual incomes over $85,000/individual or $170,000/couple pay a higher, income-related Part B premium reflecting a larger share of total Part B spending, ranging from 35% to 80%; the ACA froze the income thresholds through 2019, which is expected to increase the share of beneficiaries paying the higher Part B premium.

 Part D is financed through general revenues (74%), beneficiary premiums (13%), and state payments for dual eligibles (13%). Similar to Part B, enrollees with higher incomes pay a larger share of the cost of Part D coverage.

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Response to dkf (Reply #51)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:29 AM

54. Ok...I think I finally have it correct...

Thanks DFK - I just had to look at the last page in the Trustee Report to get the total info.

My apologies to all for not getting it right the first time...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #54)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:40 AM

58. No problem...the wording was confusing.

 

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:08 AM

48. Yes, it is health care costs -- the real white collar crime in America (nt)

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:05 PM

85. The most important point Krugman makes, will not be greeted with enthusiasm here.


Krugman: "Let the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created as part of Obamacare to help Medicare control costs, do its job instead of crying 'death panels.'”


That means restrictive drug formularies (deny people the newest -- and most advertised drugs -- when old ones are damn near as good and a lot less expensive); deny tests that aren't needed (provide little additional information); restrict access to any doctor or other health professional or facility one wants (means less choice, but better coordinated care); restrict certain expensive therapies, surgeries, etc., when the patient just won't benefit much from it; etc.

How many folks are going to scream under a system like that? It's already happened right here on DU. And the freepers will howl louder for no reason but it's Obama . . . . . .care.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:02 AM

40. of course round two will be Obama offering up SS and medicare...

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:05 AM

42. This is not true.

Sorry to disappoint you.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:46 AM

65. wow. you have been on a roll of wrong today.... nt

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #40)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:55 PM

84. Have you considered starting an Obama-Hater Club? And possibly....

...starting your own message board where you and the other "haters" could expound at length as to how much you hate the President.

Gee, doesn't that sound like your kind of fun?

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:07 AM

47. This does not sound right

Are Medicare expenditures part of the general budget?

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Response to TXDem72 (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:22 AM

52. The general budget funds 40% of Medicare costs.

 

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-07.pdf

HOW IS MEDICARE FINANCED?
Medicare is funded primarily from three sources: general revenues (40%), payroll tax contributions (38%), and beneficiary premiums (13%)

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Response to TXDem72 (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:21 PM

88. About half of Medicare is, and all of Medicaid and SCHIP is

Though the states kick in some of the Medicaid/SCHIP, though that doesn't really get around the problem in the larger sense.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:35 AM

56. Round 2 will be a bigger fight than round 1.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:41 AM

60. link? Big War and Tax Cuts are the biggest drivers of the deficit.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:16 AM

67. I hope this just means he is going to up the crackdown on Medicare fraud

Seriously, the GOP exaggerates all the time, let Obama do it to increase resources to stop the fraud.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:39 AM

74. He says lots of stuff.

And very little of it steers the public discourse in a leftward direction. I'm still glad he's President instead of Romney.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:51 AM

77. I thought he said "health care" was biggest contributor to deficit. That includes Medicaid.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:18 PM

87. Medicare/Medicaid is the largest contributer to our deficit. Bigger than all of Defense (nt)

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