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Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:49 AM

Narcissistic men have higher levels of stress hormone

The trait has some positive qualities, such as abundance of self-esteem and positive sense of self. Narcissistic people characteristically tend to overestimate their intellectual abilities, attractiveness and positive personality traits, wrote Konrath.

But they don’t enjoy healthy relationships with others because they’re generally low on empathy and high in hostility – especially when their positive self-image is threatened. Since previous research confirmed that narcissism has a harmful effect on relationships, Konrath wanted to know more.

*

Cortisol is a measurement of how prepared your body is ready to respond to a threat, said Konrath. If the cortisol response is always high in the absence of a threat, it indicates an overactive response in the body. This can have long-term health effects such as blood sugar imbalances, heart problems and weight gain

*

“We think what’s going on is, there’s some sort of especially toxic relationship between both being male and having a sense of masculinity or threat to a masculine identity.”

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/23/narcissistic-men-have-higher-levels-of-stress-hormone/?hpt=hp_bn10

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Reply Narcissistic men have higher levels of stress hormone (Original post)
seabeyond Jan 2012 OP
Tunkamerica Jan 2012 #1
seabeyond Jan 2012 #2
laundry_queen Jan 2012 #9
seabeyond Jan 2012 #11
laundry_queen Jan 2012 #21
seabeyond Jan 2012 #33
lapislzi Jan 2012 #13
laundry_queen Jan 2012 #17
lapislzi Jan 2012 #24
MuseRider Jan 2012 #87
seabeyond Jan 2012 #88
MuseRider Jan 2012 #90
seabeyond Jan 2012 #91
MuseRider Jan 2012 #93
seabeyond Jan 2012 #95
glinda Jan 2012 #97
seabeyond Jan 2012 #18
snagglepuss Jan 2012 #56
snagglepuss Jan 2012 #55
glinda Jan 2012 #96
Jackpine Radical Jan 2012 #26
seabeyond Jan 2012 #32
glinda Jan 2012 #98
LadyHawkAZ Jan 2012 #83
seabeyond Jan 2012 #85
LadyHawkAZ Jan 2012 #89
seabeyond Jan 2012 #92
glinda Jan 2012 #99
LadyHawkAZ Jan 2012 #104
WingDinger Jan 2012 #3
seabeyond Jan 2012 #4
WingDinger Jan 2012 #5
seabeyond Jan 2012 #14
lapislzi Jan 2012 #10
seabeyond Jan 2012 #12
Habibi Jan 2012 #16
seabeyond Jan 2012 #19
laundry_queen Jan 2012 #23
lapislzi Jan 2012 #29
seabeyond Jan 2012 #34
yardwork Jan 2012 #61
lapislzi Jan 2012 #70
yardwork Jan 2012 #72
seabeyond Jan 2012 #74
glinda Jan 2012 #100
redqueen Jan 2012 #20
yardwork Jan 2012 #62
seabeyond Jan 2012 #65
glinda Jan 2012 #101
countingbluecars Jan 2012 #6
dawg Jan 2012 #7
lapislzi Jan 2012 #49
lapislzi Jan 2012 #8
seabeyond Jan 2012 #15
undeterred Jan 2012 #27
seabeyond Jan 2012 #35
yardwork Jan 2012 #63
undeterred Jan 2012 #78
lapislzi Jan 2012 #37
seabeyond Jan 2012 #38
Fuzz Jan 2012 #22
seabeyond Jan 2012 #36
Fuzz Jan 2012 #50
seabeyond Jan 2012 #51
Fuzz Jan 2012 #52
Zalatix Jan 2012 #54
seabeyond Jan 2012 #59
Zalatix Jan 2012 #75
seabeyond Jan 2012 #77
lapislzi Jan 2012 #41
LanternWaste Jan 2012 #73
Fuzz Jan 2012 #79
seabeyond Jan 2012 #80
Fuzz Jan 2012 #81
seabeyond Jan 2012 #82
Fuzz Jan 2012 #84
seabeyond Jan 2012 #86
The Straight Story Jan 2012 #25
HappyMe Jan 2012 #30
seabeyond Jan 2012 #39
joeybee12 Jan 2012 #28
treestar Jan 2012 #31
Avalux Jan 2012 #40
lapislzi Jan 2012 #47
seabeyond Jan 2012 #48
Avalux Jan 2012 #53
lapislzi Jan 2012 #57
siligut Jan 2012 #76
glinda Jan 2012 #102
JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #42
redqueen Jan 2012 #43
seabeyond Jan 2012 #44
yardwork Jan 2012 #69
seabeyond Jan 2012 #71
glinda Jan 2012 #103
Tom Ripley Jan 2012 #45
seabeyond Jan 2012 #46
yardwork Jan 2012 #64
seabeyond Jan 2012 #66
yardwork Jan 2012 #67
snagglepuss Jan 2012 #58
seabeyond Jan 2012 #60
yardwork Jan 2012 #68
Bryn Jan 2012 #94

Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:53 AM

1. if only the ladies would recognize this and stop perpetuating the genes

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Response to Tunkamerica (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:06 AM

2. lol. i think it works both ways with the narcissist. to some of us, they are so obvious

of both gender. it seems like the weak or insecure go to that. i never understood the person that fell for that.

i know a narcissist. a life of hell.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:25 AM

9. I was married to one

You are correct, it was.

And yes, narcissism doesn't exactly follow gender lines.

As for people who fall for it - I was raised by parents who had narcissistic tendencies - my dad was an abusive narcissist (his mother was severely abusive probably a sociopath) and my mom was an emotionally manipulating enabler who was somewhat narcissistic herself. They were VERY controlling. When I met my ex, he manipulated me in the same way and it was familiar to me, I knew how to 'navigate' it and at the same time he was far less controlling than my parents were, I felt like I had escaped my parents, and so I married him. To be honest, I didn't even realize there was something seriously wrong with my ex and my family (his family too) until I found myself dumped for a younger blonde, stuck with 4 kids and no education or job. I had to do a real inventory of my life, did some therapy sessions and joined a support group. Found out lots of reason I chose my ex - all of which have to do with the way I was raised. I have since done a lot of research and reading on narcissists and sociopaths and I'm now awakened and finally able to pick them out. I'm also able to predict my family's and ex's behavior, because really, they are all totally predictable.

What's unfortunate is narcissists and sociopaths generally pick YOU, not the other way around, and they know how to manipulate YOU. If you read Robert Hare's book on sociopaths, he's even admitted as he, a Ph.D was doing research on dangerous sociopaths, KNEW these guys were psychos, and he still sometimes got manipulated from time to time. It happens, they are masters. Chances are there is one in your midst you aren't even aware about because you haven't been on his/her bad side yet.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:30 AM

11. you know what you are talking about, that is evident. i have had a lifetime watching with my middle

brother. and what you say, being raised in that thinking it is the norm is so very true, and what concerns me the most about my niece and two nephews. i see the results.

i dont have a lot of people around me, and even less attachment. so, though i am sure there are people i dont recognize, it doesnt matter much. doesnt effect me because those that are close are not.

but yes, i can picture a friend of hubbys. lol and seeing behaviors that absolutely point to what you are talking about.

i agree whole heartedly with your post. thanks for this. i really find the subject fascinating.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:00 PM

21. It is a fascinating subject

even simply from a science and psychology point of view.

That's sad about your niece and nephews but not surprising. Even my kids show issues from interactions with their dad and grandparents. The good part is if they know they have other, normal, people in the family who are on THEIR side, they are likely to be okay. So just let them know you care about them I'm sure you already do. At the very least, be that 'soft place to fall' if and when they get involved with other narcissists. My parents blamed me for being stupid and blind (since apparently THEY knew but didn't bother to tell me). It's taken a long time to figure out what was at the very base of what I was thinking and it was very hard on the self-esteem. Be there for them and hopefully they won't have to go through that.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:23 PM

33. the kids are now 17, 19 and 23. but you are right

that is what i have always told the kids, that this environment was their peaceful, quiet, safe environment.

and we talk about how they have the norm, with the other people they love. years ago i told niece, this is what she was going to have to watch out for, picking a man. and she tries. but she doesnt get it yet. but she tries, lol. i am proud of her.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:33 AM

13. (High fives Laundry Queen)--We should start a club

Survivors of Narcissistic Spouses.

The "control" aspect is what turns them into abusers and sometimes rapists. They cannot stand anything they cannot control or manipulate to their own ends.

Yes, ex is 110% predictable. It's the only thing I can count on. Because I know this, I have my responses and end-arounds worked out beforehand. It saves a lot of time and trouble.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:51 AM

17. We should.

It would be helpful.

Yes, they are all control freaks in some facet. And often if they find they can no longer control or manipulate you, they drop you like a hot potato as you are no longer 'useful' to them.

I fell for my ex because the way he controlled me was different from the ways my parents controlled me, so it felt like he wasn't being controlling, if that makes sense. It's only in retrospect I can see it plain as day.

I do the same thing with my ex, knowing what to say before hand. It has worked well so far.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:06 PM

24. Like I always say: nobody gets punched in the nose on the first date

If they did, there would be no second dates.

I have counseled many a domestic abuse survivor, and some express dismay about the progression of the syndrome. How did it get so bad? How did I not notice? I explain it thus:

They all start out sweet and solicitous. The controlling behavior begins to manifest as "concern": your friends aren't really your friends; stay home with me; I love you so much that I can't bear it if another (wo)man looks at you.

You think that the narcissist/abuser is sincere and loving. Right. They're sincere about protecting their supply of narcissistic reinforcement, which, by its very nature, is a bottomless pit that you cannot fill, nor can anyone, because the narcissist is so empty inside.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:30 PM

87. You never expect the one who says they love you

to be using that so they can have a secret second life. Makes you feel like a fool until you realize you went into it expecting a normal person. Been there, suffered massively from it.

Drop the reinforcement and you are in big trouble only many times you don't even know it until it wipes out your entire life.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:54 PM

88. you went into it expecting a normal person

i think this is so important to see. that is what i was saying below. when brother told me why he lies. it was hard to wrap my mind around what he was telling me, because from a normal persons perspective.... that is right on.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #88)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:23 PM

90. He sounds much like my alcoholic brother.

Impossible, they know everything even when they can't stand up straight. They control the universe. My brother is a long long time bad alcoholic. I thought he was dead for 12 years. No PI I hired when our brother died could find him. He can't stay employed, causes fights everywhere he goes, yells at everyone because....and he told me this, he is the best person and the smartest person he knows and everyone else including me and my kids are dog shit.

I don't think he is narcissistic but he has pickled his brain so badly that he acts much like one. He has left again, I will probably never know when he does die but it can't be long. I do hope he can find some rest before it happens but like the narcissist he simply refuses to fill his life himself.

About what I said, I was told that one day while I was weeping uncontrollably. I was not weeping for anything that had happened at that point, in fact I did not know the half of it yet, but weeping for the fact that I totally lost any ability to respect myself or trust my judgment. I am not a dummy but since then I have a hard time trusting anything I decide on. The comment was something to the effect that a person who marries trusts the person they marry to be their partner, not to use them as cover or breeding or to make their own life easier so they can go about being someone else entirely. If you had no clue then you did the thing that all humans do, you trust those who make you think they love you and have your best interests at heart.

I really hate talking about this but it felt kind of good to share with others who have been in the position. That comment hopefully will find it's way to someone else in that position and help them too because there is truly nothing worse than losing yourself because someone else stole who you were.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #90)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:33 PM

91. you know....

i cannot even fathom. i really cannot. yes, my brother is that alcoholic that you talk about.

i have learned so much from these threads. so so much, from others stories. i think they are so important.

not only to understand the narcissist, but what i see now thru your experience and others, to understand the victim. i need that.


thank you.

nemaste

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:40 PM

93. You are quite welcome.

It is always good to take your pain, both the acure and the chronic, and pass along the tidbits that were helpful to you. Just knowing it is out there gives one a good feeling. Just knowing that passing along something they went through could possibly help someone else get through it. Every tiny bit of that good feeling comes back and makes you stronger in the long run. It is a win/win.

Not a victim, a hard learner perhaps .

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #93)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:48 PM

95. good to hear that.

Not a victim.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:00 AM

97. My brother's wife is like that. Perhaps she is one..... never thought of that before.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:52 AM

18. ex is 110% predictable

another huge factor. absolutely. and reading your post below i was gonna point up to laundryqueen. something, huh.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:32 PM

56. "They cannot stand anything they cannot control or manipulate to their own ends. "

This thread and that observation is a real eyeopener for me.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:29 PM

55. Very very interesting post esp the point the narcissists pick you and know how to manipulate you.

That explains some very intense but destructive relationships I have had,

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:56 PM

96. One of my uncles was/is one. He favored me then when he found out that I loved the

other uncle more and would defend him, he went all crazy manipulative lying and bizarro on me. Found out later that everything he told me for the most part was lies and manipulation to begin with. I suspect he thought in his mind that he could be the "adored one". He never married. We are not sure what he is all about but he believes he is right all of the time.
Narcism is a vicious disease.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:13 PM

26. Psychologists talk about the "narcissistic wound,"

referring to the notion that narcissists tend to come from backgrounds in which they were deprived of normal love, leaving them with a sort of wounded, hollow feeling that they then devote their lives to filling.

I think this model is true for at least some narcissists. Maybe even George Bush, considering his deplorable choice of parents.

But I also think there is a different kind of narcissism that arises from being raised among the very privileged and wealthy. Kids from that background are often taught to believe in their own superiority to the masses, so they end up seeing people from outside their class as not-quite-human herd animals, to be shepherded and sacrificed as needed to satisfy their Godlike desires.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:20 PM

32. what was interesting in my brother raising. he was always special. because a middle child

my parents felt that they had to have special for him. my oldest brother and i just went thru life. he though, had to have the focus. good or bad, it didnt matter. always had to create a drama for us to all live. we learned years later, my mom was sure to have one more present under tree for this brother than us two. we never noticed or cared. my mom said, my middle brother did.

that was an oddity that my oldest brother and i talk about today.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:03 AM

98. I tend to go with "being coddled or privileged" and then believing that you are entitled to that.

We have one and maybe now two, in my family. Manipulative. End goal money, power over attention, all that. Both were coddled. Both male. Both doubtful of being desired.

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Response to Tunkamerica (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:17 PM

83. I had a child with a sociopath in 1998

didn't find out until 2003 that it could be passed on genetically. The Internet is a useful tool, although one that came a little late for me.

Knowledge is power. The more information available, the better.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:21 PM

85. your child would be about the same age as mine.

how are you doing?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #85)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:15 PM

89. Surviving. n/t

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:33 PM

92. time for more. nt

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #83)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:04 AM

99. It can? Uggggh.

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Response to glinda (Reply #99)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 03:07 AM

104. Operative word is can

It doesn't always pass on, but it does boost the chances that the child will be one as well.

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:13 AM

3. It sure seems to correlate that the more successful in business, the more self involved, hubristic a

 

and insular.

And, women seem to sense that as attractive quite a lot. Those traits certainly stand out in a nightclub etc.

Powerful apes, who are driven to dominate and lead, die early. Of heart disease, stress and related issues. And yet, if you are able, usually, the perks of dominance leave little other choice.

This is why happiness, is having just enough, nothing more than required. Accumulation, or keeping up with the Jonses, the insularity required to ignore others deprivation, costs.

It seems that the result of being involved with a narcissist, is a lot like politicians wives.

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Response to WingDinger (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:21 AM

4. maybe narcissism has to do with success, or allows it more readily. think i have read

Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)

but surprisingly, i see it in people where one can really think WTF. as i said in another post, i know a narcissist. they seem to do things that sabotage their life, too. the true narcissist seems to set him/herself up a lot. maybe that is the self created stress.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:00 AM

5. You seem to describe compensatory aggrandizement. Like violent felons.

 

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Response to WingDinger (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:33 AM

14. interesting. but, i dont know. the few i know, and the one i know well

wouldnt fit into that. sociopath, maybe, lol.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:29 AM

10. They are setting others up to fail

They set impossible standards and crash and burn when others don't live up to their unrealistic expectations. It's never their fault. I've never known a narcissist to take responsibility for ANYTHING.

Others are flawed. Never them.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:33 AM

12. this is absolutely right on. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:48 AM

16. Yes, it is.

Narcissist mother-in-law, here. What a crazy-ass piece of work she is.

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Response to Habibi (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:54 AM

19. my MIL is way controlling, betcha way more than yours BUT

it has nothing to do with narcissism adn everything to do with growing up in a two parent household of alcoholics. interesting.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:02 PM

23. addicts often act the same way a narcissist does

their addiction's needs, however, not the self's needs becomes more important than everyone else. The outward actions (manipulating to get their needs met) are the same.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:16 PM

29. Control of a different color.

Adult children of alcoholics (I'm one of those, too), feel such victims of chaos that they spend their entire adult lives trying to set the world to rights.

It is SCARY for a child to watch a parent drink until they fall down/throw up/crash the car. You don't forget that, and you never give up trying to fix it, because, of course, it's all your fault. Typically, your parent does nothing to disabuse you of this notion--at least mine didn't.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:24 PM

34. her behavior is totally opposite to how i was raised adn what my parents were.

but recognizing the reason for her need to control, am way more patient.

i agree.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:10 PM

61. Adult child of alcoholic narcissists here.

My parents were functional alcoholics, which meant that they focused their energy on their professional careers. Their children were an annoyance to be ignored as much as possible. If we didn't stay quiet and out of sight, then the screaming, temper tantrums, and icy contempt were used to keep us in line.

My mother is still very good at manipulating me and exploiting my tendency to do everything she wants even before she asks. I'm working on that and making some progress. Good therapy has been very helpful to me.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:40 PM

70. Here's to therapy.

Sadly, my parents were gone before I could truly make peace with them. Mom and I almost did. Dad tried...but I wasn't ready. I may never be.

Peace to you.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:53 PM

72. Thanks. Actually, making peace with my parents isn't a high priority.

My father died many years ago. I am close to my mother. As I said, I am working on not letting myself be so manipulated by her. I've tried to stand up for myself and be honest about my feelings. This is extremely difficult for me but I'm having some success.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:56 PM

74. damn... and i am the complete opposite.

i would like to be able to not so much, express what i am feeling. i just dont know how, lol.

my parents didnt do it to me, but i always felt i had to be perfect. approaching 30 my mom said, never, never did we put that on you. they probably didnt. i did. but i had to learn in my twenties to speak up. and since then, well fuck, i cant not do it.

that is funny.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:06 AM

100. That is right on. Others are at fault or flawed. Thus they create delusions and delusional

explanations for things.

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Response to WingDinger (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:54 AM

20. In business *and* in politics.

A psychiatrist once said to me that the result of this is that the people who are the least desirable to have as leaders are always the ones contending for the chance to lead.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:13 PM

62. I've always thought that that explains everything, really.

Normal ordinary people don't spend all their time and energy seeking limitless power. Only psychopaths do that. As a result, psychopaths are in charge. It's a core flaw in our world.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:20 PM

65. there is a point there.

as much as some on du dont believe... i have no desire to have say over another. i am seeing the mere fact of being a host causes me issues. i am not host material. i dont like shutting down posts and making that decision. i always put it up for discussion when i have to. thankfully i am in a forum that has very few alerts.

i never wanted a leadership role. i never accepted the followers role.

interesting

i read your story. i could not imagine.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:07 AM

101. Wow! My two relatives totally fit that.

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:05 AM

6. That explains Newt. n/t

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:09 AM

7. I think I am an anti-narcissist male.

I am always shocked, shocked I tell you, whenever a woman expresses any kind of interest in me at all. And they are always way prettier than I think I should be able to attract, too.

Fortunately, I have enough fear to run like a scalded dawg, so there's no chance to actually find out if anything is really possible with them.

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Response to dawg (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:49 PM

49. LOL...you and my husband

Sometimes I catch him looking at me a certain way and I say, "what are you looking at?" He gives me a slow shake of the head and says, "I can't believe I got such an amazing woman."

He has no idea that I'm thinking the same thing--as in, I can't believe I got such a fantastic man.

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:11 AM

8. There's a great deal of overlap among narcissism and other personality disorders

If we are talking about the pathological kind.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

I have lived with one who could be cruel and abusive if he didn't receive what he considered his "due."

I like to describe narcissists as the kind of people who will park in the "handicapped" parking space because they feel entitled to a good parking space. I've seen my ex do it and attempt to explain away his needs as being paramount to anyone else's.

Other disorders that are co-morbid:
--Eating disorders. Ex was bulimic co-presenting other eating disorders; believed that the "world is too fat" and it was up to him to set the example (I told you there was pathology here...)
--Bipolar or other mood disorder
--Borderline personality disorder
--Sociopathy, to varying degrees

Not all narcissists share all of this pathology, but there's often some overlap.

As a victim of his abuse, I used to chart the cycle, which closely mimics bipolar and borderline patterns: a period of escalation where the victim feels rising tension and the emotional equivalent of "walking on eggshells," the explosion phase, which can last for hours or days, and the repentant phase, with accompanying dissipation of tension and resumption of "normal" behaviors.

I could write a book, but it would just make me depressed.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:38 AM

15. you, too, know what you are talking about. this is so interesting to me.

i have a brother, love him with all my heart, lol and he is so this. talking with my father, i have often said bi polar. maybe if he got treated for this. then i started seeing the definition of narcissist and so him. i had a post on it and a poster suggest sociopath.

that could work, too. without any kind of medical analysis. but it is interesting. and they are clear and visible.

i tell brother, it is not my job and everyone elses to walk on egg shell. he comes back with.... they should know and do

i say, nope. not gonna happen.

i am one of the few that will talk to him like that. and the always lying. and like you say, everyone else....

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:14 PM

27. Narcissists rarely seek treatment unless all their sources of support run dry

and even then the therapist is just a temporary source of narcissistic supply.

I have the same kind of brother.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:28 PM

35. interesting. thank you.

i have told brother and he flat out tells me his way is the only way to live. those highs and lows. he feels.

i, on the other hand, am doing it all wrong. i dont like mess in my life and i dont have it. ergo, i am not living.

i ask how it is working for him and he doesnt get it. so really, in the sadness of it, it is really the joke between he and i.

he used me up at least a decade ago. but, he still has my dad. i cant get him to not. he keeps saying he is done, but he never will be. that source wont run dry.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:17 PM

63. The narcissist in my life is offended by any medical professional who suggests any change.

My mom is now shopping for a new doc because her current one told her to get more exercise and drink less. In the narcissist's eyes, that is unacceptable criticism and obviously means that the doctor is unqualified.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:37 PM

78. that describes it perfectly

How insulting to have to take advice from one who is less perfect than oneself - well, that means everyone.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:29 PM

37. Good resource for BPD and related disorders

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/157224108X

It's helped me immensely to shift my focus from permitting the BPD--in this case, my daughter--to run the show to meeting irrational behavior with mindfulness and tranquility.

The more you "buy into" the narcissist's universe, the more control that person has. Don't let the lunatics run the asylum.

PM me if you want to talk more in depth.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:31 PM

38. i am going to read this. thanks. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:01 PM

22. Another anti-male post?

 

For shame.

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:29 PM

36. no. if you wil read all my posts, you will continually see i say it is BOTH genders

and that it is NOT about one gender.

and that is your never ending problem. you dont go beyond shallow.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:15 PM

50. So I have a history of bashing women? Because I thought that one thread had popcorn potential?

 

You have got some huge chip on your shoulder and your anger would better be used against someone who doesn't agree with your positions 98% of the time. But I'm glad to see you are a virtuous, offend everyone equally kind of person.

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:21 PM

51. if we have a thread discussing narcissism, that is bashing EVERYONE equally? lmfao. nt

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:26 PM

52. Yeah, I think I need to stop talking to you. You are too angry and can't understand sarcasm. Plus

 

I think you have me confused with someone else who you think is a woman basher.

All of those things make it difficult to talk to you.

Hugs and kisses.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:18 PM

54. How come the title only mentions men?

 

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:52 PM

59. how come cnn put this story up today? because they are discussing the increase of chemical that

does not happen with narcissistic women. i didnt right the article. i didnt write the title.

on edit... how come you refuse to acknowledge and recognize that immediately i said wasnt gender specific, in the first post i replied to and people thru out the thread are not talking gender specific.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:32 PM

75. Woah there, I am attacking CNN, not you. You were more balanced than CNN.

 

Just to get this out of the way: +1000 for the way YOU balanced the discussion.

But to be honest, even CNN isn't the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that all of these scientific studies out there seem to portray some kind of genetic or mental flaw in men. And JUST men.

Edit: Argh. Yeah this fell under "Another Anti-Male Post". Sorry. CNN and their cadre of "Scientists" are the real anti-male posters here.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #75)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:01 PM

77. couple things on that. i think if you will watch,

anytime they have one on women, it is out there. like yesterday was women feel pain more? i didnt even want to read article, so i dont know what the conclusion is, but was guessing it is in the head kinda thing and i just didnt want to play.

and they do more studies on men to the exclusion of women, anyway, for mental and physical, so no surprise there. that is good and bad. it is good for the men, but bad for women like.... they studied heart attacks in men. years later, maybe a couple decades, they came back and said, wait a minute, women have a different experience with heart attacks. maybe we ought to study women, too. so, that is the advantage to men.

bad, they have studies and proclaim, see it is a male thing. and i say, wait.... if you did to a woman, the same thing would happen. what kinda crap study is that.

so, that is where i stand. and thank you for recognizing, that this is not a gender issue to me. i find behavior so fuckin interesting and really what i spend most of my time thinking about, discussing. it is narcissism that interests me. and i love all the info so many posters provided on this thread.

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #22)


Response to Fuzz (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:55 PM

73. narcissistic males, not males-- a critical, precise and relevant difference

The OP specifically references narcissistic males, not males-- a critical, precise and relevant difference-- unless of course you're narcissistic; I could then more easily imagine why you take such notable exception to the OP.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:06 PM

79. The post was referring to another interaction, and not a comment on the actual article.

 

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #79)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:20 PM

80. another "anti male" post? is really not about the supposed anti male post. another, lmfao. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #80)


Response to Fuzz (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:12 PM

82. back pedal as fast as you can, bubba. you threw out a totally ridiculous and untrue criticism

and now it is obvious for all to see. the rest is just another friggin game.

that was an obnoxious post about female. you put out eating popcorn to be entertained about women being bothered by that OP. again, it was you and your behavior. had nothing to do with me. you didnt like looking the fool in that thread, too.

now you are throwing out more made up insults to cover yourself.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:00 PM

84. No. It was popcorn because I figured the thread would get crazy because of the stupidity!

 

There is no back pedal, there is only your inability to understand sarcasm and humor.

Bizzare.

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Response to Fuzz (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:22 PM

86. ya. gotcha. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:09 PM

25. So it's like male PMS?

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:18 PM

30. Uh oh!




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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:32 PM

39. i think it might be a subject you would be interested in. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:14 PM

28. Explains why I'm always so calm...

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:19 PM

31. Another reason Newt shouldn't be President

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:34 PM

40. Soooo......according to Konrath, narcissism is simply the result of a biological process.

Poor narcissistic men (and women), it's not their fault they act like monsters and ruin people's lives. They can't help it!!

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Response to Avalux (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:45 PM

47. Yes and no

It's notoriously difficult to treat, and, as another poster pointed out, they rarely seek help because they're virtually incapable of seeing themselves as the problem.

Also, not all narcissists ruin people's lives or act like monsters. Some are just intermittently unbearable. Some are just laughably self-centered.

Complicating matters is the co-presentation with other disorders. Sometimes your best chance for treating them is when they present with substance abuse or bipolar--both treatable, and the narcissism can be addressed as a secondary issue.

Alas, recidivism is also a problem due to the nature of the beast.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:48 PM

48. interesting. i am glad you replied to this. i was curious myself. i can

think back to youth and see the difference in brother and wondered if innate or nurtured. but if the bi polar is present or other, then that would be what is recognized.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:09 PM

53. You are correct....

and my post was sarcasm aimed at the author of the study. To oversimplify a disorder as complicated as narcissism is silly. Perhaps the elevated cortisol level is a RESULT of the disorder?

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Response to Avalux (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:46 PM

57. Have you any idea how difficult it is to have everything be about you?

Not to mention keeping all your self-aggrandizing exaggerations straight.

According to my ex husband:

--No married people have sex with each other. Ever.
--All men lie about sex.
--All men cheat on their spouses, no matter what.
--All women cheat on their spouses, no matter what.
--Thin people are beautiful people. This is a condition devoutly to be striven for.
--Everyone in his company was a snake in the grass out to cheat him.
--Everyone steals now and then.
--Money is disgusting and should never be spoken about.

We are talking a whole smorgasbord of pathology here. And he is actually reasonably functional, if unable to maintain a relationship.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:34 PM

76. This is what research has suggested.

Perhaps the elevated cortisol level is a RESULT of the disorder?


The stress of abuse at a young age can result in a change in the cortisol levels of a stressed adult. Research varies, as do personality disorders and the origins of the disorders. It was commonly believed early abuse resulted in elevated cortisol levels, but closer, more focused research says this isn't always true.

A good look at this thread tells me that people with personality disorders often find each other, basically going with what they know. The resulting offspring are then exposed to the disorders as normal behavior and a possible genetic prediposition.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:17 AM

102. Some go after family inheritances because they feel "entitled".

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 PM

42. I should think narcissistic women do too.

We are all born narcissists as it is a self-preservation thing. Depending on how healthy the environment we grow up in is determines how much of the narcissism gets shed.

Narcissism is a particularly stressful condition in that the narcissist is on constant guard to protect self image and avert blame for anything that matters. There is often a good deal of manipulating others, often using lies. This adds to the stress level in that the narcissist has to worry about keeping the stories straight as well as keeping the people who have different versions away from each other so no such discoveries are made.

On and on goes the list of characteristics and behaviors of the narcissist. The more severe the condition, the more miserable the people around them. I've never known the characteristics to differ between genders.

Julie

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:40 PM

43. Yes, I would think so as well. nt

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:41 PM

44. reading the article, not so much the character but the stress level, per the article.

seems to effect the men more than the women. but the more interesting to me has been the conversation of narcissism in the thread and the consistencies of it.

i have talked to my brother about the lies. i ask him why he does it. i never buy into it. what is the point. one moment af actual honesty, he told me really, he doesnt care if i believe it or not. he just doesnt have to listen to a lecture or "hear it" if he sticks to his lie. something else i found interesting i thought beyond the norm. in my world, once caught in a lie, game over. not for him.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:35 PM

69. In my experience, narcissists spend a lot of time avoiding anything they don't like. Lying is a tool

I was starting to type "avoiding responsibility" and realized that that's wrong, the narcissists I know like responsibility if it's something that they chose. If they think of it as a tedious chore, they'll avoid it. In other words, it's all decided by whether or not they want to do something.

Being "nagged" or facing consequences for something is avoided at all costs, so you see where the lying comes in. If a lie will get somebody off their back and stop nagging them to do something they don't want to do, then the lie is used and there doesn't seem to be any sense of guilt or shame associated with it. If anything, the narcissist is proud of themselves for solving the problem.

As you know, narcissists aren't unpleasant all the time. They can be very charming. They can be generous and kind when they feel like it. But there's no trusting these traits because when the chips are down, the narcissist always pleases herself or himself.

What your brother said sounds true to me. He lies because lying works for him - it gets him out of situations that bore him or that he doesn't want to deal with.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:50 PM

71. i really find this very interesting

when he told me that, and it was five years ago, it blew me away. cause it is a type of thinking i didnt know existed. like i said, i had always seen getting caught in a lie, game over. just me wrapping my mind around not seeing it that way was something for me.

but, you are right in everything you say. with a better understanding of my brother, who he is, i can love him, without trying to fix him. not going to happen. or feel sorry for him. or get suckered by him. i am probably one of the few he will call up, just cause i get him.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #69)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:20 AM

103. Oh damn. I do have two in my family. Damn...... they also attack

those the closest to them when they feel endangered or that their "reality" will be blown. I do not think they do this consciously like most people. That is why the attack is so vicious and twisted upon the close person.

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:43 PM

45. This is about me, isn't it? Isn't it???!!!

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Response to Tom Ripley (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:44 PM

46. the true narcissist would not have a question mark, lol. ah ha.

on edit, actually i imagine they would deny at all cost. unless a rare moment of honesty, generally cause they want something.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:19 PM

64. Psst. Google the name "Tom Ripley."

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Response to yardwork (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:22 PM

66. bah haha

isnt that a hoot, lol.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:25 PM

67. I always wonder how the posters find these threads that match their names. Hilarious!

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:50 PM

58. I did the Narcissism Quix posted in the article but not just for

myself, I also completed it for several difficult people that have been in my life imagining how they would have answered the questions. I rated very low at 7 but the others all rated highly narcissistic.



http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:54 PM

60. didnt look at it. gonna check it out. we have had a thread or two on this

over the years, on du2. isnt it interesting hearing what others know on this and how it clears things up and puts puzzle pieces together in our lives.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:26 PM

68. Just took that and scored 3. Like I said upthread, I have some issues with self-confidence..

Since I knew what the quiz was testing, I probably scored a little lower than I normally would, but still....

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:44 PM

94. Eric Canton has that kind of look

He always look so hostile.

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