HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I'm not sure the country ...

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:47 PM

I'm not sure the country is going over the cliff, but DU sure as hell has.

This place has gone crazy.

The Senate deal has tax hikes wrested free from spending cuts and people here still find something to complain about.

"B-b-b-but he said $250,000!"

First of all, it's called negotiation. What DU considers a cave, most Americans see as true compromise and sacrifice. The political fallout from the cliff now falls squarely on House Republicans. This weakens the entire party.

Secondly, the $400,000 cap is not the end of the world. Yes, it's going to reduce some revenue. But this is not the Swiss bank account class. When these people have extra money, they tend to spend it. Thus much of the revenue will come back.

It's strange that, for the amount of interest in politics on this board, how many don't seem to understand how they work. At least not in a realistic sense.

Flame away, my friends.

338 replies, 31599 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 338 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm not sure the country is going over the cliff, but DU sure as hell has. (Original post)
Barack_America Jan 2013 OP
CherokeeDem Jan 2013 #1
CatWoman Jan 2013 #77
6502 Jan 2013 #117
6502 Jan 2013 #124
6502 Jan 2013 #130
6502 Jan 2013 #136
kardonb Jan 2013 #142
BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #253
leftstreet Jan 2013 #2
tabasco Jan 2013 #7
leftstreet Jan 2013 #10
donheld Jan 2013 #230
Barack_America Jan 2013 #12
leftstreet Jan 2013 #15
Barack_America Jan 2013 #23
leftstreet Jan 2013 #27
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #37
leftstreet Jan 2013 #40
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #44
leftstreet Jan 2013 #55
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #72
leftstreet Jan 2013 #80
WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #127
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #139
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #133
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #144
Number23 Jan 2013 #221
ronnie624 Jan 2013 #315
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #42
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #76
mythology Jan 2013 #106
A Simple Game Jan 2013 #227
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #255
billh58 Jan 2013 #84
Hekate Jan 2013 #163
Bluegene Jan 2013 #89
aptal Jan 2013 #97
caseymoz Jan 2013 #100
Politicub Jan 2013 #161
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #201
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #208
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #248
hootinholler Jan 2013 #285
Jester Messiah Jan 2013 #278
DJ13 Jan 2013 #229
billh58 Jan 2013 #222
creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #231
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #237
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #256
roguevalley Jan 2013 #266
tomp Jan 2013 #273
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #327
lunatica Jan 2013 #56
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #82
Barack_America Jan 2013 #102
Blanks Jan 2013 #125
Hekate Jan 2013 #164
kstewart33 Jan 2013 #200
fleabiscuit Jan 2013 #311
lunatica Jan 2013 #316
Barack_America Jan 2013 #83
leftstreet Jan 2013 #96
Barack_America Jan 2013 #105
leftstreet Jan 2013 #108
billh58 Jan 2013 #189
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #250
George II Jan 2013 #312
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #111
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #110
graham4anything Jan 2013 #155
Isoldeblue Jan 2013 #43
appacom Jan 2013 #92
Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #71
hfojvt Jan 2013 #261
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #19
Hekate Jan 2013 #165
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #336
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #240
Lisa D Jan 2013 #57
kstewart33 Jan 2013 #199
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #241
kstewart33 Jan 2013 #293
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #299
kstewart33 Jan 2013 #332
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #334
hedgehog Jan 2013 #3
Doc Holliday Jan 2013 #79
freshwest Jan 2013 #148
Barack_America Jan 2013 #206
annabanana Jan 2013 #4
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #6
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #5
bowens43 Jan 2013 #8
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #48
freshwest Jan 2013 #121
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #140
freshwest Jan 2013 #145
1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #150
freshwest Jan 2013 #301
Control-Z Jan 2013 #264
freshwest Jan 2013 #291
LW1977 Jan 2013 #198
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #211
freshwest Jan 2013 #298
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #9
freshwest Jan 2013 #123
CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #11
Hekate Jan 2013 #167
freshwest Jan 2013 #330
jillan Jan 2013 #13
liberalmuse Jan 2013 #22
liberalmuse Jan 2013 #14
sheshe2 Jan 2013 #153
Aerows Jan 2013 #16
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #85
Aerows Jan 2013 #91
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #183
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #215
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #247
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #17
Barack_America Jan 2013 #31
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #182
Hekate Jan 2013 #188
druidity33 Jan 2013 #279
Cobalt Violet Jan 2013 #32
Owl Jan 2013 #158
cbrer Jan 2013 #18
lamp_shade Jan 2013 #20
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #36
djean111 Jan 2013 #39
tblue Jan 2013 #47
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #107
lamp_shade Jan 2013 #112
DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #41
elfin Jan 2013 #21
Aerows Jan 2013 #25
CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #26
Aerows Jan 2013 #33
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #46
daa Jan 2013 #81
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #195
daa Jan 2013 #337
CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #50
LSK Jan 2013 #60
AnnieK401 Jan 2013 #51
Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #94
Barack_America Jan 2013 #34
Aerows Jan 2013 #49
pasto76 Jan 2013 #70
Baitball Blogger Jan 2013 #24
Aerows Jan 2013 #29
Mdterp01 Jan 2013 #28
One of the 99 Jan 2013 #30
Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2013 #35
Trajan Jan 2013 #38
navarth Jan 2013 #288
Darkhawk32 Jan 2013 #45
bluestate10 Jan 2013 #67
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #52
loyalkydem Jan 2013 #68
Skittles Jan 2013 #53
grantcart Jan 2013 #149
creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #242
TreasonousBastard Jan 2013 #54
mimi85 Jan 2013 #64
freshwest Jan 2013 #143
LSK Jan 2013 #58
avebury Jan 2013 #59
loyalkydem Jan 2013 #61
Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #73
lunatica Jan 2013 #62
customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #63
Phentex Jan 2013 #65
Louisiana1976 Jan 2013 #93
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #154
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #66
aptal Jan 2013 #95
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #109
madfloridian Jan 2013 #175
Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #192
madfloridian Jan 2013 #220
stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #319
billh58 Jan 2013 #129
madfloridian Jan 2013 #177
billh58 Jan 2013 #184
madfloridian Jan 2013 #187
billh58 Jan 2013 #190
madfloridian Jan 2013 #193
billh58 Jan 2013 #196
creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #243
madfloridian Jan 2013 #257
graham4anything Jan 2013 #277
madfloridian Jan 2013 #287
graham4anything Jan 2013 #290
madfloridian Jan 2013 #302
madfloridian Jan 2013 #313
graham4anything Jan 2013 #318
druidity33 Jan 2013 #282
madfloridian Jan 2013 #289
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #205
billh58 Jan 2013 #212
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #216
billh58 Jan 2013 #223
madfloridian Jan 2013 #217
Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #69
Barack_America Jan 2013 #90
Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #131
Barack_America Jan 2013 #174
Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #338
SaveAmerica Jan 2013 #74
PatrynXX Jan 2013 #75
Firebrand Gary Jan 2013 #78
Liberalynn Jan 2013 #86
Jon Ace Jan 2013 #87
sonibeth Jan 2013 #88
Stuckinthebush Jan 2013 #98
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #99
fascisthunter Jan 2013 #101
Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2013 #103
tiredtoo Jan 2013 #104
humbled_opinion Jan 2013 #113
Barack_America Jan 2013 #120
humbled_opinion Jan 2013 #159
4_TN_TITANS Jan 2013 #114
Indykatie Jan 2013 #115
Barack_America Jan 2013 #207
awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #116
Chathamization Jan 2013 #118
tnvoter Jan 2013 #119
plethoro Jan 2013 #122
creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #245
randome Jan 2013 #126
4dsc Jan 2013 #128
fascisthunter Jan 2013 #135
LW1977 Jan 2013 #137
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #147
billy_j Jan 2013 #260
Chorophyll Jan 2013 #283
Eddie Haskell Jan 2013 #321
FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #329
Barack_America Jan 2013 #170
geek tragedy Jan 2013 #213
harun Jan 2013 #132
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #134
plethoro Jan 2013 #146
grantcart Jan 2013 #152
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #179
barbtries Jan 2013 #138
brush Jan 2013 #141
WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #151
quinnox Jan 2013 #168
WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #172
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #202
creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #249
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #306
Skittles Jan 2013 #204
Barack_America Jan 2013 #210
Number23 Jan 2013 #225
dionysus Jan 2013 #326
DissidentVoice Jan 2013 #156
abbeyco Jan 2013 #157
Politicub Jan 2013 #160
Barack_America Jan 2013 #169
Politicub Jan 2013 #314
get the red out Jan 2013 #162
elleng Jan 2013 #166
stupidicus Jan 2013 #171
aandegoons Jan 2013 #173
YOHABLO Jan 2013 #176
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #178
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #197
raindaddy Jan 2013 #180
JEB Jan 2013 #181
ReRe Jan 2013 #185
Barack_America Jan 2013 #186
CheapShotArtist Jan 2013 #254
ReRe Jan 2013 #317
alarimer Jan 2013 #191
bullwinkle428 Jan 2013 #232
paulkienitz Jan 2013 #194
LW1977 Jan 2013 #203
DrewFlorida Jan 2013 #209
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #214
Care Acutely Jan 2013 #218
Number23 Jan 2013 #219
WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #226
Number23 Jan 2013 #228
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #224
colsohlibgal Jan 2013 #233
ProudProgressiveNow Jan 2013 #234
Claybrains Jan 2013 #235
shireen Jan 2013 #239
Claybrains Jan 2013 #246
shireen Jan 2013 #236
JReed Jan 2013 #238
woo me with science Jan 2013 #270
SHRED Jan 2013 #244
October Jan 2013 #251
MFrohike Jan 2013 #252
King_Klonopin Jan 2013 #258
Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2013 #259
RBInMaine Jan 2013 #262
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #263
Jim Warren Jan 2013 #265
cali Jan 2013 #268
Trajan Jan 2013 #271
Jim Warren Jan 2013 #272
Trajan Jan 2013 #276
Shilo Jan 2013 #267
aandegoons Jan 2013 #269
harun Jan 2013 #274
Ford_Prefect Jan 2013 #275
graham4anything Jan 2013 #280
leftstreet Jan 2013 #303
Union Scribe Jan 2013 #281
mgardener Jan 2013 #284
timesamillion Jan 2013 #286
EuroStyleSocialist Jan 2013 #292
Ford_Prefect Jan 2013 #295
Scurrilous Jan 2013 #294
rivegauche Jan 2013 #296
ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #297
WeekendWarrior Jan 2013 #300
Phentex Jan 2013 #304
LWolf Jan 2013 #305
HoosierRadical Jan 2013 #307
stevenleser Jan 2013 #308
Skraxx Jan 2013 #309
George II Jan 2013 #310
stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #320
stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #322
billh58 Jan 2013 #328
Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #323
saidsimplesimon Jan 2013 #324
patrice Jan 2013 #325
NightOwwl Jan 2013 #331
shaayecanaan Jan 2013 #333
Rex Jan 2013 #335

Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:48 PM

1. No flame here....

I agree with you....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:04 PM

77. ditto!!!

finally a voice of sanity!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CatWoman (Reply #77)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:43 PM

117. Ditto++! Sanity! Someone had to say it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:58 PM

130. You're 1000% right! DU craziness is real...

... I spend my the majority of my time elsewhere now and contribute on sites where people get it and try to actually do more than whine and share meme GIFs.

You know... the better sites.

I have found that DUers have no concept of trying to get a whole loaf and only getting a half a loaf today. And that you might only get the rest of the loaf in slices.

They just don't get it.

I'll read a little more then I'm off to spend my quality time elsewhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:07 PM

136. Oh, and to DUers who don't know what victory looks like...

"Under the agreement, tax rates would jump to 39.6 percent from 35 percent for individual incomes over $400,000 and couples over $450,000, while tax deductions and credits would start phasing out on incomes as low as $250,000, a clear victory for President Obama, who ran for re-election vowing to impose taxes on the wealthy."

-- The New York Times, January 1, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/us/politics/senate-tax-deal-fiscal-cliff.html


Just sayin'.

(Please feel free to flame away...)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:15 PM

142. agree

 

they act like 2 year olds with a hissy fit because someone took their binky away . Grow up already ! The world only functions by making compromise , not blindly following an ideology .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:58 AM

253. None here, either.

I agree 100%. This was a big f**king deal. President Obama is not going to play Mr. Nice Guy anymore, and he's made that clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:48 PM

2. The majority of members are on the left. Deal with it n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:52 PM

7. Explain how that works with the House of Representatives.

Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tabasco (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:54 PM

10. How many DUers are members of that body?

The OP is about DU

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:18 PM

230. Maybe someday

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:54 PM

12. I'm on the left. Doesn't mean I can't comprehend reality.

Doesn't mean I don't understand how the game of politics is played.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:56 PM

15. At least you admit it's just a game n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:04 PM

23. It is what it is.

Lousy and imperfect and unfair, but ultimately what we have to work with. Unless that fabled revolution happens.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:08 PM

27. So make your points without bashing the majority here n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:21 PM

37. Actually, he's bashing a very vocal minority on the extremist far left.....

...who prove themselves time after time to be totally unhappy with anything the President does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:23 PM

40. 'extremist far left' people want to protect safety nets?

Holy Shit! Those commies

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:33 PM

44. Protect the safety net for themselves ...

20 years out ... To hell with those that were placed at risk yesterday when we went over the cliff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:42 PM

55. You characterize the majority here as self-serving?

I certainly don't, and I think you're way off base

Some of the finest, kindest, most thoughtful people on the left post here

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:59 PM

72. Yes, "some of the kindest, most thoughtful people on the left post here"....

....but they're not members of the extreme far left who are in a very small vocal minority.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:06 PM

80. How many members are 'extreme far left?'

I can (still) count most of us on 1 hand

The majority here are FDR-style Democrats

Calling them out as troublesome or extreme is a weak way to make a point

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #80)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:52 PM

127. Excellent Point

Many of us are FDR Democrats....this does not make us extreme in any way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #55)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:07 PM

139. Yes ...

I do characterize those claiming to give a damn about the "safety net", but only the SS part of it that they will receive, while ignoring the millions that would/will be affected, today, by us not reaching a deal, as it may as imperfect as it may be ... Yes,I characterize each and every one of you as self-serving.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:03 PM

133. No one has to apologize to you for more than hand to mouth thinking.

I've been homeless. I've been an unemployment check from homeless and hungry.

Keep the guilt trips for someone who gives a fuck. The can gets ever bigger as it is kicked down the road so let's not feign too much nobility for engaging in punting the downside down the road so you don't have to deal with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #133)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:18 PM

144. Since you've been homeless ...

and an U/C check away from homelessness ... tell me again how going of the cliff is the best course?

Funny ... we now have Kentuckians living in Kansas.

Oh that's right ... it is, now, a guilt-trip to remind you of where you would have been, but for President Obama's frequent caves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:51 PM

221. TRUTH.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:03 PM

315. There was never any possibility of 'going over the cliff'

as long as the military budget was threatened.

Most DUers are much closer to retirement than 20 years.

No progressive EVER says "to hell" with anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:31 PM

42. You beat me to that

exact response.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:01 PM

76. So you consider FDR an extremist? How do you feel

about Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter? I think DU would like to know.

Is it just old people you don't support, or do you want to throw disabled and minorities under the bus too? After you get rid of Social Security you can start working on the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Civil rights legislation. And if you didn't know that is your agenda, you better get up to speed.

So you consider being on the left a bad thing on a liberal forum?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to A Simple Game (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:29 PM

106. Considering Roosevelt left a lot of people (especially minorities) out of Social Security

he might not be the best example. Politics is always a fitful process and involves making unideal choices.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #106)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:08 PM

227. Civil rights came later. The Republicans won't try to dismantle

civil rights until they "fix" Social Security.

By the way, I feel I was left out of the Affordable Care Act. But as most would say, we had to start somewhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #106)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:37 AM

255. Social security helped a far-larger percentage of Americans than, say

the Affordable Care Act.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:10 PM

84. +1000

DU has a few "very vocal minorities" who believe that out-shouting everyone else is "proof" that they are winning arguments.

Given enough time (and rope) these hair-on-fire concern-mongers eventually show their true colors and self-immolate in a blaze of righteous indignation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to billh58 (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:40 PM

163. The self-immolation can't happen soon enough

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:14 PM

89. It is a Circle

If you go far enough left or right you will meet in the middle otherwise known as Crazytown.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:19 PM

97. Actually anything anyone does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:21 PM

100. And just voted him back into office!


Just tell me we wouldn't be saying "President-elect Romney" now if it weren't for the "extremists." No matter what our size is, we have a right to get pissed off when too much is offered for too little. Especially when the Republicans were clearly beaten in the last election, yet they get to act like they're in the majority.

Personally, I think President Obama could have gotten a better deal if he had walked and let the Repubs drive over the cliff. The Repubs were certainly going to get the blame for it, and the consequences of this cliff would be easily reversible.

No matter what you say, is that a bad POV? It looks like it's going to happen anyway, now, no fault of President Obama's. If the House kills this, and I think it will, President Obama is cleared of it.

I think we can have this discussion without tearing into each other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:36 PM

161. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:49 PM

201. "Extremeist far left" who like 70% OF AMERICANS

DON'T WANT ANY BENEFIT CUTS.

BTW, good luck gaining seats next with without our tiny minority.

Fucking DINOs and appeasers

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #201)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:18 PM

208. I know, right?

The only time they have any use for us is on election day. The rest of the time, we can just go fuck ourselves. It's the DINOs on this board who are making me want to sit out the mid-terms.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kurtzapril4 (Reply #208)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:54 AM

248. Isn't that what happened in 2010? Go ahead, sit out for 2014....

....because you're mad and want to go pout in a corner.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #248)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:57 AM

285. Nope. That an urban legend.

The left D voter showed up at the polls. The I voters either did not show or bought the teabaggers bull.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kurtzapril4 (Reply #208)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:00 AM

278. That's the role of those outside the center.

Resign yourself to the fact that you will never get 100% of what you want. What you can do, however, is try to pull the center in your direction at election time. That's the fringe's time to shine. Outside of that though... yes, your analysis is correct. But if you want to encourage the rise of Tea Party 2: Electric Boogaloo in order to soothe your battered ego, that's your business.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #201)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:09 PM

229. Hmm

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: DINO is a political not personal attack.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Juvenile spat. Meh.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given


No, I wasnt #1.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:53 PM

222. +100

But they are delusional enough to think that they're the majority. Extremists tend to believe that they are the source of all knowledge, and everyone else is wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to billh58 (Reply #222)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:47 PM

231. What bothers me

are claims of unique virtuosity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:08 AM

237. So tell us what the "extremist far left" wants that you dont want? I dare you.

Or are you just trying to spit the party?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:38 AM

256. +1!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 05:09 AM

266. so what. if they are such a vocal tiny minority why be upset

The thought police want purity tests I guess

That alone requires dissent

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:12 AM

273. it is a very, very small group here....

...that opposes EVERYTHING obama does. and you and your ilk are purposely exaggerating that number to make anyone with principled to ANY obama policy seem like an "extreme far leftist." trust me, you haven't seen extreme far leftism here, but your attitude is mccarthy-esque.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:38 PM

327. Really????

You know - one could REALLY help all of us ignorant types if they'd compile a book of definitions for us to refer to. Seriously - WHEN is a proclamation or a promise just a phony (and forgiveable) enticement???
Make's me think of angler fish and the little deceptive lures they flaunt to attract prey close enough so's they can fleece them for campaign money.... oops, I got two types of predators confused there. See - THAT'S why us lesser sorts need a "playbook" to understand all this complicated lie..... er, persuasion tactics.

BTW, one example on the horizon is the secretive TPP trade agreement that's being hammered out. An agreement that looks like it might shake the very foundations of American ideals in the interests of serving the super-wealthy (yes, yet another instant replay). I'll be anxious to see how RIGHTCENTER UNDERGROUND crows about the outcome of that when it emerges from its cocoon.

Edit for typo...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:44 PM

56. He's not bashing the majority because most of us are in agreement with him

DUers who fucking scream about how Obama caves when he's actually negotiating and getting the foot in the door are no different that the teabaggers who want to destroy the government. If you don't give a little and take a little no one ends up getting anything. This country needs to have our politicians agreeing to concede and negotiate. That's the very heart of politics.

Never giving an inch and demanding no concessions also never gets anything done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:10 PM

82. another voice of reason. thank you! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:23 PM

102. Hear hear. There's no chess match unless somebody moves.

Each move runs the risk of exposure and sacrifice, but there's no game without movement.

Politics IS a game, it's the implications that are real.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:50 PM

125. That's exactly right...

and comparing Obama to other democratic presidents who had a congress controlled by democrats isn't fair.

He may be able to do better, but to expect an agenda as liberal as presidents that controlled both houses of congress isn't a realistic expectation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:41 PM

164. Sanity -- thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:45 PM

200. Exactly. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #56)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:52 PM

311. Well...

DUers who fucking scream about how Obama caves when he's actually negotiating and getting the foot in the door are no different that the teabaggers who want to destroy the government.


Not that I'm one of those, but if I were I'd say "bite me."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #311)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:04 PM

316. No thankyou sweety

It would be a waste of my time. If you want to keep screaming go ahead. Please proceed fleabiscuit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:10 PM

83. See the OP. I made my case there. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:19 PM

96. You have no case

I'm sure you could do a fine job of supporting Obama's positions without bashing the members here

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #96)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:28 PM

105. Bashing? Criticizing.

And I believe I made a reasonable strong case for why those I'm addressing are misguided.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #105)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:32 PM

108. 'Flame away, my friends'

Your words

You can't support Obama's policies without suggesting the majority here are too stupid to understand politics and have just gone 'crazy'



How did that work out for Rahm? Isn't he a mayor somewhere, or a dogcatcher or something?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #108)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:07 PM

189. You, and others from your side of the debate, keep using that

term "majority" when referring to yourselves. By my count, the President Obama-bashers on DU are in the distinct minority, but have a tendency to attempt to out-shout everyone else. Hence the term: vocal minority. This also applies to the pro-gun crowd on DU, who tend to use the same tactics: loud talk, and skewed statistics to prove a flawed opinion.

According to the anti-President Obama minority, anyone who disagrees with venom-laced criticism and outright disrespect of the President instantly becomes an unpatriotic, DLC-loving, "cheerleader," and an Obamatron.

Constructive criticism is fine. Hate speech based on assumptions and half-truths are not criticism, but attacks. There is a difference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #108)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:58 AM

250. Wow, if your think that's a violation of the TOS then you're a bit too sensitive....

....to be posting on DU. My advice to you is grow thicker skin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #105)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:56 PM

312. And those with the guilty consciences are those who now are bashing YOU....I loved that OP, thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:37 PM

111. There was a case?

Hmmmmmmmm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:36 PM

110. Agreed

I don't think a call out was at all necessary. And I firmly believe that is what the OP was.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:30 PM

155. the third party Naderites you mean. I am Liberal and President Obama is the best in 50 years

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:32 PM

43. I enjoy your voice of reason. Thank you. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:17 PM

92. Exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:59 PM

71. Left? Left? You keep using that word.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

Prince Humperdink will appreciate your point of view though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:44 AM

261. except that in your reality

a shitty deal looks like a good deal

a huge concession looks like a victory

I am not sure how left you are, nor what your grasp is on reality

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:58 PM

19. As are we all, but a very vocal minority always posts the same extremist crap...

...to the point where it's hard to distinguish them from the right-wing trolls.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:43 PM

165. And to the point where one wonders mightily ...

... if they are indeed right-wing trolls in thin disguise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hekate (Reply #165)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:31 PM

336. Yeah, the left that isnt satisfied with 25% of Americans living in poverty and you

dare call them " right-wing trolls in thin disguise." Seems to me that you are here to disrupt. If not, show us some evidence of your allegations.

Or is this a "drive by", hoping to cause a stir?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:17 AM

240. Do you have examples or are you just trying to start a fight? Tell us which issues the left support

that you dont. Tell us exactly why you hate the left. Why you try to split the party. Speak up please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:44 PM

57. I'm on the left

and I agree with the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:41 PM

199. Left yes, but not leftist ideologues.

The far left is as annoying and unproductive as the far right because neither is capable of compromise. It's all 'my way or no way.'
Just like the Tea Partyers.

Being an ideologue is fine - just don't run for public office where compromise is essential to get anything done in a 2-party system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #199)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:20 AM

241. Explain which issues you disagree with the left.

The left is fighting for jobs, freedom from domestic spying and the Patriot Act. The left is fighting to feed the 50 million Americans living in poverty. Tell me which of these issues you think are annoying.

Tell me what you are fighting for if you dare.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #241)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:42 AM

293. I don't disagree with any of these issues.

I do disagree with the far left's refusal to compromise when compromise is essential to moving forward on any of these issues.

It's easy to say that principles should not be compromised, but in a 2-party system, the refusal to compromise simply does not work. We must compromise to make progress on any of these issues.

If Obama had not compromised, we'd have nothing. A worse stalemate in Congress, and many millions of people stuck with higher taxes that they cannot afford in this still-struggling economy.

Obama might well have been in a stronger political position if he'd held his ground, but that advantage would have come with a considerable and unacceptable price. Just ask the millions who would have lost their unemployment benefits.

The tension between the far left and more mainstream liberals in the DU community has existed for years (I've been a member since 2000). It will always exist here. The tension's core is not a disagreement on the issues, it's about compromise - how much is each member willing to compromise in the interest of these issues? The mainstream liberals become exasperated with the far left because most believe that the far left sacrifices progress because of their refusal to compromise; the far left becomes exasperated because they believe that the mainstream liberals are compromising principles which, as principles, should never be compromised.

I'm a pragmatist - I'll gladly take 5 steps forward, not 10 or 20, when 5 steps are very achievable and 10-20 are not.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #293)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 11:43 AM

299. Ahh yes pragmatism, the reason we been getting our asses kicked for the last 30 years.

The repukes demand a mile and we compromise and only give them half a mile. Under Bush we lost 10 miles and under Pres Obama we've been gaining it back only a foot at a time. Forgive me for not being thrilled.

Pragmatism works if you are dealing with reasonable people not terrorists. And todays republicans meet the definition of terrorists.

I understand compromise but I also understand that at some point you have to draw the line and fight. Thank Dog that our founders werent pragmatist or we would still be a British colony.

Today we have millions of children living in poverty and going to bed hungry. That is not something I will compromise on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #299)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:48 PM

332. The Republicans compromised away their sacred principle.

Minimizing taxes is the bedrock of the Repub party's principles and they've maintained this principle, untouched, for decades.

They compromised away this principle yesterday. They lost in a very big way.

I don't believe that Boehner is a terrorist. He's just stuck in a very bad place. His extremists remain a minority in the caucus. I don't believe they're terrorists either. They are absolutists who refuse to compromise. And really Rick, in this respect, don't you and they share a similarity?

In sum, let's agree to disagree, with mutual respect.

Enjoyed blogging with you. It's going to be a very interesting 2013!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kstewart33 (Reply #332)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:53 PM

334. Bear with me. I still have a point or two to make.

You are giving the Republicans way too much credit. "Minimizing taxes" sounds admirable. But the fact is they only want to lower taxes on the uber wealthy. They make no bones about wanting to cut services for the middle class, working class and poor.

My definition of terrorism: The use of fear against persons to intimidate them in furtherance of political or social objectives. This fiscal cliff bullcrap is a good example of them trying to scare the population into giving the wealthy bigger tax breaks and cutting social services for the lower 80%.

I thank you for the decent debate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:48 PM

3. No flames here! Like you said - compromise is not the end of the world!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedgehog (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:06 PM

79. It's all in the definition.

Extremists on both sides seem to labor under the delusion that compromise = appeasement.

It doesn't. It means, "Well, it's not everything I wanted...but I can live with it."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doc Holliday (Reply #79)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:28 PM

148. I call l it a holdover from the 'tough guy' chickenhawk GOP presidencies.

Obama saved lives the only way he could. The lives of those that most people don't know, don't wanna know, and never will. Tough talk is false bravado and Obama has never indulged himself in that luxury. When lives are at stake, you have to bend and he's done a great job of protecting more people than any president since Carter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #148)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:16 PM

206. +1000. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:49 PM

4. It may be moot

This post is sooo 3 hours ago

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:51 PM

6. Bingo n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:50 PM

5. What is this negotiations you speak off?

For the record our mirror site does the same. Part of whhat ails us as a nation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:53 PM

8. If you dont mind being lied to by the president

Good for you. But some of us are sick of it. This is a huge loss but keep spinning if it makes you feel better

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bowens43 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:35 PM

48. What was the lie? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:48 PM

121. He always lies! See 'The Obama Deception' on youtube! He's gonna kill us all!!!1!!11!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #121)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:10 PM

140. Phew ...

I, was about to go straight the F off.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #140)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:19 PM

145. Well, I can't say I haven't been close to that sentiment this week:



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #145)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:28 PM

150. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #150)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:13 PM

301. He speaks my mind throughout the whole film. I've always been that way inside.

No matter how many dumbass things you do or how many times you stumble, keep running. You will win in the end.



The name 'Graboids' fits the GOP most days..


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #145)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 04:20 AM

264. Hey! I just watched that movie last week

for the first time in years. A family favorite.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Control-Z (Reply #264)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:29 AM

291. MIne, too. Ain't it a hoot!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bowens43 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:33 PM

198. Be a freeper

Be a birther, I don't give a fuck, it's whiners like you that got the house it's GOP majority in 2010, by staying home and complaining.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LW1977 (Reply #198)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:24 PM

211. You aren't too presumptive and arrogant, are you?

Can you cite any statistics showing that the reason the Dems lost the house is that us liberal "whiners" stayed home?

Didn't think so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LW1977 (Reply #198)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 11:42 AM

298. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:53 PM

9. Agree 100%. Tired of the totally clueless dumping their bile on DU. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:50 PM

123. Thanks, you got that right!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:54 PM

11. Rec. Figure out how to stop infesting Congress with Teabaggers

if people want to see progressive legislation.

The current sequence of events may finally make clear that the House GOP is the problem - NOT the President and his negotiating skills. Too bad that isn't more obvious here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:47 PM

167. I tell them they have to GOTV in 2014 ...

... and wouldn't you know it, some of them (yes here at DU) tell me they are staying home or voting 3rd party. Way to win back the House!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 03:35 PM

330. It's been 'cool' to diss Obama and supporters since the right has been doing it all along.

What does that say about the poitical leaning of some here?

Besides, they can't let us enjoy ourselves here or anywhere. Because they know that is our strength.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:54 PM

13. I agree. It seems like some people do not want to negotiate - Gee - what does that remind you of?


Negotiations are give and take & it seems like we took alot ore than we gave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jillan (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:02 PM

22. I guess some DUers figure the GOP for terrorists, LOL.

Or they have watched "Speed" ("shoot the hostage" aka "Boehner") a few times. If Boehner didn't have Cantor on his ass, pretty much breathing down his neck, ready to pull a Tonya Harding in order to get ahead, the man might be semi-reasonable. As it stands, the GOP have f*cked themselves and that herd is ready to stampede over the cliff rather than give our President an inch. Which brings me back to the subject of terrorists...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:56 PM

14. Not a koolaid drinker. Just old.

Sure, I was disappointed that we liberals didn't get every single thing we wanted in this deal. But I fully support this President, and am happy with what he's managed. That being said, the fuckwads in the House will likely not pass it, so I hope DU is fully prepared to take their outrage to the phones this week to back up the deal we want by letting the 'pubs know that we support Obama and we WILL make sure their asses are on the line when every single one of these pieces of shit runs for re-election. WE need to back up our President with action, not sit on our asses criticizing him when he is out there, pretty much alone, trying to negotiate for US.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberalmuse (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:29 PM

153. Damn! That was well said!

Stop talking about the Outrage! Conspiracy theories are taking over here.Take it to Congress, they need to hear from us. NOW! This President can not do this alone. Some here talk the talk. Our President walks the walk! It is time for all of us to stand up and take this mans back!

Thank you so much for your post Liberalmuse!

She

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:57 PM

16. You've gone crazy

if after the mandate the President got that he should be sitting here post 11th hour playing games with a House that says they now will not accept the proposal from the Senate.

They struck out like children, and now it is time to call their bluff and put this Congress to bed because you can't reason with 3 year olds at this late hour.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:11 PM

85. Excuse me, but most of us see reality as it really is....

....not the utopian way the extreme far left would like it to be.

So tell me, what "games" are being played by the President? He's done, and the Senate is done. No "games" from them.

The only group still playing "games" are the Republicans in the House. You do understand that, don't you?

Just curious, but if the House refuses to vote on the Senate measure, what do you propose the President should do to "call their bluff"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #85)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:16 PM

91. Extreme left?

I'm playing poker. I don't know what game you are playing. Politics isn't kindergarten where everything is laid out for everyone to see.

This could be a boon to the next set of debt ceiling debates in that he has Republicans so far over a barrel that they are going over Niagra Falls without the ability to do anything but watch themselves plummet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #91)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:46 PM

183. I'm playing politics, and so is the President. And yes, you read my post correctly....

....the extreme far left on DU has an agenda that is very difficult at times to distinguish from that of the right-wing trolls.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #183)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:38 PM

215. What, exactly

Do you mean by "extreme far left?"

What policies does this "extreme far left" support that you do not?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kurtzapril4 (Reply #215)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:51 AM

247. Read a few more posts and you'll get the picture. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:57 PM

17. "The political fallout from the clff now falls squarely on House Republicans." - Hunh? WTF are

 

you talking about?

$400K/year is approximately $33K/month. At the exact same time, 1 in 5 children live in poverty. I really don't give a shit about the rich and near rich. That makes me "crazy"?

At least I'm not a lackey or lickspittle for the 1%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:12 PM

31. Tell me how a $250K limit cures childhood poverty.

Thanks.

I like numbers, so tell me, in numbers, how that revenue is enough to address childhood poverty and which programs the money would go to.

In reality, if you want enough money to cure childhood poverty, let's discuss defense spending.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:29 PM

182. A perusal of my posts on the subject of the defense budget from 2003 (when I joined DU) until

 

the present will reveal that I have continually advocated for cuts to the defense budget akin to the cuts that occurred after World War II. I have also jokingly referred to the defense budget as the largest Keynsian program in the history of the known universe but not one whose results merit continuing (losing 2 wars in 10 years has to be some kind of record, I would say).

More to the point, I've been demonstrating in person and in public against our imperial state since, oh, about 1983 (when Reagan was President), as review of my posts will also indicate.

What are your progressive credentials? Or am I 'crazy' to ask?

A $250K limit does not in and of itself cure childhood poverty. But it certainly makes a fuck of a lot more revenue available to begin the process. The plain fact is that Social Security has been one of the most successful anti-poverty programs in the history of the known universe. We now need to focus on the other side of the age spectrum, i.e., those too weak to advocate for their own interests.

I frankly find all the sturm und drang over the so-called fiscal cliff obscene given the massive social dysfunctions that beset this society. But, hey, that's me. Jesus H. Christ, 1% controls 40% of the wealth. Why isn't anyone in power talking about that little fact????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:06 PM

188. Defense spending -- you hit the nail on the head

"In reality, if you want enough money to cure childhood poverty, let's discuss defense spending."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 07:01 AM

279. the difference

is about 400 Billion dollars in revenue over the course of 10 years. (according to the CBO)

That might feed a few starving kids, no? Especially if it went to WIC and EBT.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:13 PM

32. but didn't you hear 400K is the new working poor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:33 PM

158. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:57 PM

18. Compromise is not a problem

 

*However*

How "entitlements" are defined could become a huge issue. President Obama seems willing to define any of the big 3 as an entitlement, rather than a separate insurance program bought and paid for by the citizens using it.

That doesn't seem like compromise to me. That seems like a false definition based on political expediency that could lead to reduced benefits to people who have paid for benefits for several/many decades.

NOW that it's time to pay up, the gov. wants to go to some kind of "austerity" program...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:58 PM

20. Agree. Sooooo many on this board have little or no understanding of how politics work.

They don't think... or research... before spewing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lamp_shade (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:17 PM

36. No the whining DU members understand, but they are as fucked up as House republicans.

The whining DU members are the reason why President Obama has to deal with a huge deficit, wars and the Fiscal Cliff to begin with, all because the whining, vote their "principles" fucking Left elected GW Bush be being idiot enough to waste their votes on Nader in 2000. If they hadn't wasted those vote, there wouldn't have been a President GW Bush, 9/11 likely wouldn't have happened, we would not have had an Afghan and Iraq war paid for with a credit card and no tax cuts that were not paid for. The people that are whining now should shut the fuck up, they are responsible for the problems that the President, Vice President, House and Senate Democrats are working their asses off to solve.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:22 PM

39. That's a big huge incorrect leap, assuming everyone who is unhappy

with Obama voted for Nader and sat out 2010.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to djean111 (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:35 PM

47. Yes, but it's easier to generalize than it is to listen

Calling out people who hold to their principles is a hobby for some I guess. "Shut up and get in line."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to djean111 (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:30 PM

107. It's all they've got.

And they pride themselves on their political savvy, often taking their cues from anonymous bloggers they've glommed onto. Same parlance from thread to thread, without an original thought among them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #107)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:38 PM

112. Sure seems that way. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lamp_shade (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:28 PM

41. Or real life, for that matter.

You are spot-on about the "spewing before thinking" factor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:58 PM

21. Agree

The biting vitriol against W was well deserved -- against our Pres. - no.

He is pragmatic and more of a centrist than many on the board want. But he does not deserve the knee jerk rage when he modifies a stance in order to protect other worthy parts of a package.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elfin (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:05 PM

25. Our president has a mandate from voters

Our Senate has a mandate from voters. If they think they won't be held accountable because they have a majority, both them, and yourself are dreaming. Republicans lost. Deal with it, and it's time to run roughshod over them like they ran roughshod over Democrats all of these years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:08 PM

26. And the voters have installed an intransigent GOP majority in the House. How do you propose

to work with that, given how the legislative process works?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:13 PM

33. Let me ask you something

What do you care more about - a) The American Middle Class b) What you think you can convince DU to think (dubiously) c) A supposed idea that you are defending President Obama ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:34 PM

46. You didn't answer the question. How in the fuck is the President supposed to work past a

branch of government that the Constitution has given the power of spending and taxation to? If you think the President can use the 14th Amendment to bypass the House, then maybe you should look up the 14th and it's sections and educate yourself. We are fucked unless the republican pigs in the House relent and allow the will of the majority of americans to be realized.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:07 PM

81. Same way Clinton cleaned Gingrich's clock

Except Obaba is no Big Dog and he negotiates with himself while pugs stand back and watch.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to daa (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:24 PM

195. Hindsight is always wonderful.

BTW, I paid attention. Clinton didn't clean Gingrich's clock. Clinton often did just what Obama is doing, put out a compromise proposal then stand back while republicans blow themselves up.

Revisionist always make history out to be what they want it to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #195)

Thu Jan 3, 2013, 10:30 AM

337. Did Clinton increase the deficit 4 trillion and have to come back in

2 months and do it over again? It sounds like you are revisin th outcome of this deal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:37 PM

50. I AM the American Middle Class.

And a baby boomer.

I need a job as badly as anyone. I have a stake in what's happening. But I also know that there are realities in the makeup of Congress and the attitudes of some of its members that are not going to disappear so that everyone will magically sign onto progressively ideal legislation.

DU will think what it thinks. I have the right to opine that some people are dead wrong in their assumptions and conclusions.

I think some here are more offended by the fact that others dare to disagree with them. Ironically. Minds are not likely to be changed about who's failing whom in these dealings.

But we all have the right to advance our opinions, even if they aren't in lockstep. Isn't that a dirty word around here?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:47 PM

60. d) something that will actually PASS in the house n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:37 PM

51. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:18 PM

94. Exactly

this will take time to rectify the problems in the house and that is how democracies work. Very slowly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:15 PM

34. You seem to liken a "mandate" to a "do whatever the fuck you want" card. It isn't.

One false step and it's gone.

It's something that has to be cultivated and renewed. That is how you use it. A fool spends it. A smart politician invests it. This is what Obama has done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:36 PM

49. It is a do whatever the fuck you want card

until you get pulled back some. THEN you scale back. Not before.

It's called "testing the waters" or "testing the mandate". You don't assume you can't get where you want to go until you have gotten into the pool and started swimming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Aerows (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:59 PM

70. yes lets become that which we (pretend) to hate most

except most of us really do. too bad you dont. you just want 'your way'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:05 PM

24. Just a word of advice.

Never, never invite them to flame away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:11 PM

29. I will be satisfied

When Republicans get painted into a corner, forced to compromise, and pretty much have their faces buried in the dirt like Democrats have since 1980. Not because I hate them. But because their policies are so destructive that over the last 32 years they have nearly decimated the nation. Their party has a lot to answer for, and those of us in the white, middle aged, upper middle class regions? We know who is to blame.

You're welcome, I knew you wondered what the true goal was of the younger members of the party were. It's to make certain that trickle-down, supply side economics never, ever get a hold on our nation, and that we return to a more fair and prosperous tax rate that taxes those that make the most the highest, and those that make the least the lesser.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:09 PM

28. I love you OP

 

Couldn't have said it better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:11 PM

30. Very well said nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:16 PM

35. You are correct!

 

Well said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:22 PM

38. Blah blah blah

You just made it better? .... Hardly

DU is a subset of the general population ... The general population is partly composed of neurotics and psychotics ...

Why on earth would anybody expect it to be different here? ... It's an open door at DU, and any asshole with an opinion can spew it here ... This is the reality

What is ridiculous is an assumption that some sort of perfect, wholly homogenous philosophical consistency would exist here ... Ever ...

E V E R ....

Get used to reality ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trajan (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:08 AM

288. Thank you

We are supposed to be the big tent, no?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:34 PM

45. Expect many members of DU to stage a nude protest in your home very soon! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Darkhawk32 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:53 PM

67. Why not? They are good in the nude, grabbing their knees for a clueless fool like Ralph Nader. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:38 PM

52. There are a few people here who think anyone who makes a dollar more than they do....

....should be taxed higher than they are. That's a fact.

Personally, I'd prefer a $200,000 starting point, but $400,000 is fine. There are some people here who are jealous of people making 35,000 a year and think they are "living it up".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:56 PM

68. I am with you on that

if I could suddenly jump from 12000 to 35000 a year that would make my day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:39 PM

53. KRUGMAN SAYS IT BEST

So why the bad taste in progressivesí mouths? It has less to do with where Obama ended up than with how he got there. He kept drawing lines in the sand, then erasing them and retreating to a new position. And his evident desire to have a deal before hitting the essentially innocuous fiscal cliff bodes very badly for the confrontation looming in a few weeks over the debt ceiling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #53)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:28 PM

149. I am willing to bet $ 1 that if Obama is successful in separating taxes and spending cuts and


force the Republicans to negotiate on future cuts tied with additional revenues that Mr. Krugman is going to say that it was strategically very advantageous.

Having said that it is also interesting to note that his biggest objection isn't where the deal ends up.

Given that he is negotiating with a party acting in bad faith getting anywhere is going to be disagreeable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 12:25 AM

242. Both sides moved

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:39 PM

54. Just a guess, but...

Half the whiners are trolls just here to stir shit

Half of the rest are religiously leftwing nuts-- our versions of teabaggery and we just have to live with them.

The other half of the rest just don't know shit.

This not to say that we have to like what's being shoved down our throats, but put the blame where it belongs. The bad guy in this is Cantor, who has Boner's nuts in a tight grip.

And try to remember the first two years when we got a lot of good stuff done with Speaker Pelosi. (Oh, wait-- none of that was good enough for some people here.)

Even better-- work on getting Speaker Pelosi back for Obama's last two years. Still be a lot of whining, but much easier to slap 'em down.

And through it all, remember that none of us has any more workable solutions than the best(?) brains in Washington.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:51 PM

64. Thank you!!

Well said, especially your last point. Lots of bitching, no solutions. Personally, I'm as happy as can be that Obama is our president. Imagine if McCain had won in 08; the board would have self destructed by now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:16 PM

143. +1,000. And don't forget the 60 MILLION who voted for much worse things than we got last night!

They kept the Tea Party Majority in the House and elected at two more Teabaggers to the Senate.

George W. Bush trained a lot of people very well here:




So I guess some people here really do miss him!




This is what people expect from a President now.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:44 PM

58. Agree, mandate or not, THE HOUSE IS CONTROLLED BY CRAZY TEA PARTY IDEOLOGUES

I would have been happy with Plan B because ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THE HOUSE TO PASS ANYTHING SANE!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:46 PM

59. No flame here either.

The Republicans are so glued to their ideology that it doesn't even concern them if they drive this country over a cliff. I can't even imagine what the Democrats have to deal with then they try to negotiate with a group of people that are just a bunch of whiny crybabies. I know that I could not do it because I just don't have the patience. It is obvious that for any progress to be made there has to be compromise and I figure if both sides find something to dislike about it then that will be about the best we can do.

I refuse to put any energy into the idea of complaining about the Democrats because it is the Republicans that are the problem. All I can think about is shoving responsibility for the failure of Congress to act at the feet of the Congressional Republicans. I think that the Democrats should be working on their mid-term election game plan to pound the crap out of the House Republicans. Get the people riled up and keep them that way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:47 PM

61. That's what makes me so angry about the anti Obama people

They use their opposition of the deal to say "I campaigned my you know what off" and you didn't deliver, next we'll be seeing them say they are going to stay home in 2014.

When I see them replying in threads like this, I put them on full ignore. they are just as bad as the tea party right

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalkydem (Reply #61)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:01 PM

73. Yeah. Damn it.

Don't they know that He is more important than any silly old principle or policy. If He does it - it's good. That's all they need to know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:48 PM

62. I'm in full agreement with you

A well run government has differences and it has negotiations and it has concessions and all of that is done through politics. When you have a one party government you get Bush and what we have now. A disproportionate amount of the advantages go to the one party, and the other party is left to flounder because no one is able to representing them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:48 PM

63. The President has a tea party infested House to deal with

I expected some compromise from the $250K figure. In the biggest cities of more than a couple of states, a husband and wife can have joint earnings that easily exceed that, and after paying for state and local taxes, high mortgage payments, and maybe a couple of college educations, they sure don't feel hyper-rich. Sen. Schumer knows what I'm talking about, he's made the same case for quite some time now.

Here's what I don't understand: $450K for a married couple, but $400K for a single individual? Isn't that oddly disproportionate? I can see all kinds of well-off people getting a paper divorce, then living together to have income under the cutoff, whatever it comes out to be. It would just be viewed as the kind of tax planning that they pay CPAs and tax attorneys to advise them on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:51 PM

65. Sure beats the gun talk...

I'll take 200 cliff threads any day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Phentex (Reply #65)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:17 PM

93. Me, too--

I'm sick of hearing about guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Louisiana1976 (Reply #93)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:30 PM

154. Yeah. If only people would stop getting shot by them so much, your life would be peachy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Barack_America (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 05:52 PM

66. You know,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this and any other issue. They are also entitled to express that opinion, just as you are doing. I believe this post to be dancing on the line of a call out of DU members who may just have a different opinion than the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #66)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:18 PM

95. Actually here at DU...

Sometimes different opinions will get you canned. I have seen it time and time again. That's why I usually just read through instead of post how I really feel. I see myself as a Constitutional Democrat and feel that many views here are way extreme. So the OP isn't that far off IMO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aptal (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:34 PM

109. We will have to agree

to disagree. Opinions stated in a civil manner to my knowledge have never caused anyone to be canned, but I may be wrong. I do find the sweeping generalizations of the OP to be beyond absurd. I wasn't aware that we only had to have the opinions that are approved by certain individuals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #109)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:07 PM

175. That is changing now. Many of us are no longer welcome.

And it shows. I have always stated things in a civil manner, but it no longer matters.

I was here 10 years, and now because I differ with Obama on education and his views on safety nets....I am very very uncomfortable here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #175)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:20 PM

192. Well,

I differ with the President on many things and I feel very comfortable. One must remember that the posts on this board are nothing more than the opinion of the poster (that and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee) . They can have their say, post as they like, but it still comes down to just an opinion. Their opinion is no more valid than yours or mine (and frankly, folks can agree with me if they like and if they don't I still sleep very well at night). Then of course there are those handy trash thread and ignore options available. Life is too short to allow rude people to get you down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #192)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:50 PM

220. Well,

it really hurts me personally after so many years here to see people like me who do NOT attack Obama treated like those who do.

It's not a good idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #220)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 01:29 PM

319. It's not a good idea

x1000!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aptal (Reply #95)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 06:56 PM

129. No, it's not that

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:32 PM - Edit history (1)

"different" opinions will get you canned. Anti-Democratic, right-wing, neoconservative opinions which attack the Democratic Party and our elected representatives may get you banned.

There is a difference between constructive criticism, and the outright promotion of RNC, NRA, and Tea Party talking points and propaganda aimed at being disruptive and divisive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to billh58 (Reply #129)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:12 PM

177. I disagree. Seems to be no room for any criticism at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #177)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:50 PM

184. Actually, the post I was responding

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

to dealt with being banned for "differing opinions." That is not true, as evidenced by the fact that you, and the poster, are still here.

Disagreeing with "criticism" is a different matter, and it would do us all well to remember that criticism works both ways. If it seems to you like there is "no room for any criticism at all," perhaps the arguments that you use to support your criticism are not all that convincing. It is not against the TOS to disagree with and counter-criticize, those who criticize President Obama or the Democratic Party.

I know for a fact that there are still remnants of vitriol and anger left over from the 2008 Primaries, which I suspect is a part of the "criticism" antagonism from both sides of that unfortunate episode.

What I was actually responding to, however, has to do with the influx of right-wings trolls (as identified by MIRT) which have attacked DU in recent weeks. Their RNC, NRA, and Tea Party "talking points" have been extremely transparent, and it's likely that they are appearing in so many numbers due to a concentrated effort by other right-wing web sites which monitor DU 24/7.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to billh58 (Reply #184)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:03 PM

187. I supported Obama in 2008, strongly.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. In the 10 plus years I have been at DU I have never been so uncomfortable posting anything. If it is trolls people are speaking of, they need to say so clearly. We "Deaniacs" were blasted for our adoration in 2003/2004. (rightly so as I look back)....and I see the same type of thing here now.

It's going to kill this board for anything but praising Obama.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #187)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:15 PM

190. Somehow I believe that

both DU and the Democratic Party will survive, and become even stronger in the future. The Republicans have overstayed their welcome with the American people, and once again we Democrats have stepped up to the plate and cleaned up their mess.

Have we managed to undo eight long years of mismanagement and corruption? No, not even close, but we are making progress (as in Progressive).

I don't care if you don't praise President Obama (seems your side has trouble attaching his title to his name, and prefer to call him "Obama" like our opponents), but I will counter any unfair and disrespectful bashing for bashing's sake when I see it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to billh58 (Reply #190)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:21 PM

193. What is "my side"?

"I don't care if you don't praise President Obama (seems your side has trouble attaching his title to his name, and prefer to call him "Obama" like our opponents), but I will counter your unfair and disrespectful bashing for bashing's sake when I see it."

I don't bash him, never have. Not everything in this world is about him. Teachers are hurting under his policies, and that is not going away.

There needs to be some way here to separate those of us who are NOT trolls...(how can I be a troll with 76 thousand plus posts) with those who really may be?

I challenge you to find a single "Obama-bashing" post by me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #193)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:31 PM

196. I didn't call you

a troll, and I don't believe that you are. I answered your response to a reply I posted to someone else, and explained the reasoning behind my post. You can take it anyway you want, but you seem a little too overly sensitive to any criticism of your views in my opinion.

Chill out, and have a Happy New Year...

PS I changed the wording in my previous post to read "any" instead of "your," which was what I meant to say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink