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Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:47 AM

Where is that Chained CPI Everyone Was Sure Was Coming?

What happened to that? I thought President Obama was going to feed catfood to the seniors with his plan. So many people were so sure about that. And how about raising the Medicare eligibility age? Where is that in this agreement that got through the Senate?

I'm not sure who to ask about this, really, but there were a bunch of people who were saying that's what we'd get just the other day. Can any of them explain?

110 replies, 6945 views

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Reply Where is that Chained CPI Everyone Was Sure Was Coming? (Original post)
MineralMan Jan 2013 OP
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #1
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #41
jberryhill Jan 2013 #76
FSogol Jan 2013 #78
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #90
seabeyond Jan 2013 #2
LisaLynne Jan 2013 #5
seabeyond Jan 2013 #7
gateley Jan 2013 #34
seabeyond Jan 2013 #70
gateley Jan 2013 #74
seabeyond Jan 2013 #77
bhikkhu Jan 2013 #88
seabeyond Jan 2013 #89
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #55
bowens43 Jan 2013 #3
regnaD kciN Jan 2013 #101
Cal Carpenter Jan 2013 #4
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #6
MineralMan Jan 2013 #23
MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #64
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #79
Liberalynn Jan 2013 #94
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #30
Autumn Jan 2013 #8
madokie Jan 2013 #9
Enrique Jan 2013 #10
TDale313 Jan 2013 #53
newfie11 Jan 2013 #67
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #72
Liberalynn Jan 2013 #95
grantcart Jan 2013 #98
hay rick Jan 2013 #100
grantcart Jan 2013 #106
Skittles Jan 2013 #104
ecstatic Jan 2013 #110
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #11
forestpath Jan 2013 #12
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #13
Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #14
chimpymustgo Jan 2013 #22
regnaD kciN Jan 2013 #102
chimpymustgo Jan 2013 #107
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #66
Karmadillo Jan 2013 #15
hay rick Jan 2013 #16
MineralMan Jan 2013 #20
DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #27
MineralMan Jan 2013 #35
DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #45
MineralMan Jan 2013 #56
DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #63
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #82
DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #99
whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #105
mzmolly Jan 2013 #84
MineralMan Jan 2013 #92
mzmolly Jan 2013 #97
DirkGently Jan 2013 #96
WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #33
whathehell Jan 2013 #93
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #17
MineralMan Jan 2013 #18
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #21
MineralMan Jan 2013 #25
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #32
earthside Jan 2013 #26
OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #19
freshwest Jan 2013 #39
sheshe2 Jan 2013 #85
freshwest Jan 2013 #86
sheshe2 Jan 2013 #87
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #24
MineralMan Jan 2013 #28
SidDithers Jan 2013 #29
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #50
SidDithers Jan 2013 #75
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #31
MineralMan Jan 2013 #43
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #44
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #71
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #36
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #40
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #48
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #52
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #60
Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #37
MineralMan Jan 2013 #47
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #54
MineralMan Jan 2013 #59
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #69
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #73
TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #80
MoonRiver Jan 2013 #38
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #42
tjwash Jan 2013 #46
MineralMan Jan 2013 #49
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #61
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #58
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #91
Yo_Mama Jan 2013 #51
MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #57
limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #65
TheProgressive Jan 2013 #62
aquart Jan 2013 #68
woo me with science Jan 2013 #81
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #83
Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #103
99Forever Jan 2013 #108
ecstatic Jan 2013 #109

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:48 AM

1. It will be part of the deal in two months! Or something...



Speculation about the future policy fights is more fun!

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:28 PM

41. +26,916

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:04 PM

76. Prophet Revises Date After Apocalypse Fails To Come

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #76)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:06 PM

78. DU does seem to have a big share of Harold Campings.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #78)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:02 PM

90. Yes indeed.....

Especially in certain forums on this site.....

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:48 AM

2. i do not mess with anything until it happens cause really, there is so much information out there

who is there to believe. and our interpretation is not always or even often correct, especially dealing with the president.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:51 AM

5. That is so true.

I do understand trying to figure out what is going on. We have to do some of that, but there is a problem with taking any of it too seriously. You can't forget that we're all just speculating and have to take it as such.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:53 AM

7. exactly. i read, i am informed then i watch, listen and wait. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:26 PM

34. Am I right in thinking I heard the Dems (Obama and Biden specifically) weren't willing to even

entertain the possibility of the chained CPI? I was surprised and pleased when I heard that, since I'd been led to believe (probably on DU) that it was essentially a done deal.

Don't know if that was the stand just for this stop-gap measure, or if that will be the stance when they get down to the REAL deal.

I hear stuff like this (chained CPI on the table) and I find that I'm hopeful it isn't so, but aware that many times -- not all -- it is.

We won't know until we know, and you have the right attitude.

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Response to gateley (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:26 PM

70. what i find so often is what appears a contradiction. we will hear it is not... then obama says

something and the interpretation is IT IS ON THE TABLE. and reality that i learn later is that is not what or all of what he said and he was saying something else.

the thing i have learned over the last 4 yrs is there has been enough standing ground that i have learned not to take what is happening on du as fact. and i generally do not go this far in my statements cause i have no wish to argue back and forth.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:58 PM

74. And, just because he says something is on the table doesn't mean he's really going to consider

it. He HAS to say stuff like that to get the other side to come TO the table. We, who consider ourselves so politically savvy, too often take what he says as gospel rather than what it is -- just politics.

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Response to gateley (Reply #74)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:04 PM

77. yes...

maybe that is a better way of saying it. i know he has said things knowing damn well it is not going to happen cause the repugs wont allow it.

like me saying to sons, if you get straight A's i will buy you a car.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #77)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:36 PM

88. Its kind of like the football with them, every time:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #88)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:00 PM

89. that made me chuckle. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:49 PM

55. Apparently, We The People shouldn't

believe the words that come out of the President's mouth. HE is the one who said chained CPI was on the table.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:49 AM

3. that's in the next round two months from now...

Obama has used all of his political capital. He has no bargaining power left.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:45 PM

101. Actually, the G.O.P. has no leverage, either...

With no agreement on something different, sequestration kicks in, complete with Defense cuts. End of story.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:50 AM

4. That's still up in the air

What passed last night covered the tax question, but not SS/Medicare.

So the answer to your question remains to be seen, and only time will tell.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:53 AM

6. On the floor, next to $1 trillion of the $1.6 trillion Obama promised to raise from the 2%

Thank God for the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the 29 Democratic Senators who swore they'd not vote for it, and the Republicans who never particularly pushed for it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:16 PM

23. And to those Democrats who took the time to express their

disapproval of it directly to their legislators, perhaps? Lots of us have been doing that, Manny. It works.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:58 PM

64. Yes, absolutely.

Thank you for pointing that out and by walking the walk.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:10 PM

79. Whew, I'm so glad you said that

For a minute, I thought you were mocking those of us who have been so outspoken about Obama's proposal. The mere fact that you went out of your way to contact your legislators and voice your concerns, indicates you really DO get it. Thank you so much for adding credibility to our concerns, and it's so very heart warming to know you'll be right beside us, fighting the good fight in the precarious months ahead!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:21 PM

94. +1

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:20 PM

30. +1000 nt

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:53 AM

8. It was offered by Obama but the pukes wouldn't deal (edited)

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

whatever, it made me happy.

Ugly divisive OP. You are spinning this to put down DUers to deflect the offer by Obama of a chained CPI. Most DUers reacted accordingly. Obama offered it, that's a bell that was rung by him and your spin against DUers who were angry, nervous and scared and motivated to raise hell about it, sure as hell isn't going to un ring that bell.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:54 AM

9. They are in hiding today

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:56 AM

10. if anyone said the chained CPI was a certainty this time around

then they were clearly wrong.

If people said that Obama offered it at one point, they were right. If people said they were afraid the cuts would be part of the deal, I agree with them. If people say they are still worried, I agree with them as well.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:46 PM

53. ^^^ this ^^^

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:03 PM

67. +1

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:47 PM

72. Well said. And if anyone said Rep Pelosi supported it, I agree with them. Being worried isnt a bad

thing. Helps motivate.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:24 PM

95. +1

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:48 PM

98. fair enough but I would also add that if someone is suggesting that it was offered without


key offsets then they would have better sources than Lawrence O'Donnell had.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #98)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:36 PM

100. Let's not go overboard on nuance.

Robert Greenstein discusses caveats under which chained CPI would be acceptable in his view: http://fortmchenryii.blogspot.com/2012/12/robert-greenstein-thoroughly-explains.html

I would go for chained CPI if there were offsets for the elderly and poor (SSI) AND THE DEAL INCLUDED MUCH MORE REVENUE THAN CURRENTLY CONTEMPLATED BY EITHER SIDE.

Presume Obama's offer included the offsets...

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Response to hay rick (Reply #100)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:47 PM

106. Greenstein was on LO and said that it was his understanding that the offsets were

apart of the deal.

But I go back to LO bromide: Nothing is agreed to if everything is not agreed to.

Even if the President agreed to something as part of the process it wasn't agreed to until all of the pieces were agreed to.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:58 PM

104. CORRECT, CORRECT, CORRECT, and CORRECT

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Response to Enrique (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:26 AM

110. Your post would be more helpful

If you included the context in which certain offers were made (ie offering something that has a 100% chance of being rejected).

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:57 AM

11. "I'm not sure who to ask about this"

Perhaps you could ask Nancy Pelosi's office: (415) 556-4862.

She seemed to know about it while so many others were saying that the chained CPI wasn't on the table at all.
She also seemed to believe that it wouldn't be a cut.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/nancy-pelosi-social-security_n_2333285.html

I'm glad it fell off the table, but at least I can admit that it was there.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:58 AM

12. So SS and Medicare WON'T be on the agenda two months from now? You can

 

GUARANTEE that?

Oh, and since you know for a fact that President Obama will never, ever, ever, offer it up again, those of us who have called and written the WH and our reps can now just sit back and stop contacting them about something that will never, ever, ever happen...right????

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:01 PM

13. The deal (as yet not House approved) does not include any debt ceiling concessions and so

that means the whole can was just kicked down the road. The offer was made already and that means it will be demanded again. It's not hard to figure that out. What it means is we have to keep pressure on all of those who have offered it or supported that offer. If you don't like it, blame those who offered it, and those who kicked that can down that road. It is after all their fault that it is a subject of discussion at all.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:02 PM

14. Different Table

The deal making shifted from the Grand Bargain solve the deficit table onto the immediate fix to avoid the fiscal cliff deal making table. The Chained CPI never was placed on that table by Obama and the Democrats though the Republicans briefly flirted with putting it there, then backed off. We are yet to see what will be placed onto the table again once the Grand Bargain bargaining resumes, and it will.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:15 PM

22. Tom, you're smart. I know you see the strategy here. Next round will bring the deluge.

Our Dear Leader, having given up all his leverage to get half the revenue he once insisted upon, will be "forced" to cut "spending" during the "debt ceiling fight".

You know how this kabuki dance ends. Same shit. Different day.

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Response to chimpymustgo (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:48 PM

102. This "given up all his leverage" line is tiresome bullshit...

The "leverage" is sequestration. Period. Just as it always was.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #102)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:38 AM

107. Our inability to play even a good hand well is the "tiresome bullshit".

Surely it can't be because we're just not that smart.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:00 PM

66. ^^^This exactly.

good explanation

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:03 PM

15. I guess they thought the Obama admin and the Republicans had the votes for it.

Kudos to Harry Reid and other Democrats who did the right thing on this one.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:06 PM

16. Everyone was sure? Down goes another straw man.

It's more like a lot of people were angry that Mr. Obama put chained CPI on the table. If Obama really wasn't willing to include chained CPI in a fiscal cliff solution he could have clearly stated that. Instead, we got:

But David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI, which sounds real technical but basically makes an adjustment in terms of how inflation is calculated on Social Security. Highly unpopular among Democrats. Not something supported by AARP. But in pursuit of strengthening Social Security for the long-term I'm willing to make those decisions.


link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022097448

I'm glad our team scored a run in the top of the first inning, but I wouldn't be doing a victory dance just yet.


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Response to hay rick (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:12 PM

20. Yah, Obama sounded pretty enthusiastic about it in that quote, fer shure.

It wasn't really on the table, you know.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:19 PM

27. Are you calling the President a liar?

It sure looks like you are. Please explain.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:26 PM

35. President Obama is not a liar, nor did I suggest that he was.

He did not introduce Chained CPI as a good thing at all, nor did he actively present it as a choice. He pointed out that both the Democrats and the AARP opposed it. He was singularly unenthusiastic about it. He brings it up, but does not support it. It's all part of the discussion mix. Obama is always happy to discuss things. That does not me he supports those things. Negotiation involves more than simple-minded thinking.

If you think I am calling the President a liar, then you are engaged in simple-minded thinking. I am calling President Obama a very clever negotiator. Watch for more of that.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:31 PM

45. Oh, I see. He's not a liar, but only because you're inside his head

...and you knew he wasn't serious when he offered chained CPI. So you came here to gloat and rub it in the faces of those you're diametrically opposed to--the left. In so doing, you falsely stated that chained CPI wasn't on the table, and now you're helpfully explaining that just because it looked like it was on the table, it really wasn't. And stuff. Happy new year.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:50 PM

56. Well, I'm going to go watch my Cornhuskers

get beaten by Georgia, sadly. Barring a miracle, of course. You are not getting what I am saying, but that's no surprise, so I think I'll just walk off shaking my head.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:57 PM

63. Happy footballing. I did get what you're saying. I disagree with it.

You're depending on information that none of us has to reach your conclusion.

PS: I know nothing of football, but I do know that every once in a great while, the underdog pulls one out. Good luck, and enjoy the game.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:31 PM

82. That short exchange is a perfect snapshot of the cognitive dissonance afflicting Obama Stalwarts

Notice the SOP of having something more important to do when they get nailed. Notice also they're immediately back downstream.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #82)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:12 PM

99. Yes, just downstream, and pining philosophical about our binary, limited, progressive thinking

There's a certain dull comfort in knowing MM will always play true to form, and he does a great Patient-and-Kindly Man who has nonetheless had it up to here with your tomfoolery. Welcome to another year in GD.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #99)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:02 PM

105. Heh, yup

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:10 PM

84. "I am calling President Obama a very clever negotiator."

Exactly. I'm astounded that so few here, understand political negotiations.

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Response to mzmolly (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:31 PM

92. I think it' s a lack of gradation.

If things are considered only as binary choices, no subtlety is conceivable. For some DUers, there are only two possibilities in any decision, so subtlety and nuance can play no role. Very odd.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #92)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:43 PM

97. Very odd,

indeed. It seems we have a form of collective neurological impairment in play?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:24 PM

96. Oh, bullshit, to this entire OP. He OFFERED CHAINED CPI

What a weak and frivolous ploy to attempt to simultaneoulsy mischaracterize what actually occurred and attack the people who were 100% in the right.

Lame, lame, lame.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:25 PM

33. Regardless of his enthusiasm level, he made the offer.

House Republicans rejected it.

Deny all you want, if it helps get you through the day.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:18 PM

93. +1 n/t

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:07 PM

17. Here's Lindsay Graham on FoxNews on Sunday:

" Iím not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get serious about keeping the country from becoming Greece, saving Social Security and Medicare . So hereís what i would like: meaningful entitlement reform ó not to turn Social Security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to Medicare ó but, adjust the age for Social Security, CPI changes and means testing and look beyond the ten-year window. I cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and I will not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014351424


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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:10 PM

18. Lindsay Graham, eh?

Well, I don't believe he'll be dictating things, really. He's been saying stuff like that all along.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:13 PM

21. I thought I had seen it all on DU, but quoting Lindsey Graham??? Really?? Yikes. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:18 PM

25. Yabbut, Lindsay Graham sets policy...oh...wait...

It's always interesting to see who gets quoted.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:24 PM

32. You asked what happened to the Chained CPI talk. The Republicans will now pick it up.

And that quote shows that they already have. Sorry you don't care for the reality that all of this did not get put to an end, it just got extended for the debt talks. Republicans, as I showed you, will not let go of that bone easily now that it has been offered up.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:19 PM

26. "Give that man a cigar!"

Messing with Social Security and Medicare are very much alive and living today ... assuming that the House even passes the 'deal'.

Frankly, this whole episode is disheartening and demoralizing; look for approval ratings fro Pres. Obama and Congress to sink in the next few weeks. I do believe we would be better off in the long run with a painful crisis that absolutely forces the politicians in Washington to do something genuinely significant. All of this kicking-the-can-down-the-road and papering-over the real problems is slowly, but surely, nickel-and-diming the middle class to death.

I'm pessimistic over this. I think Obama is one of the worst negotiators to ever occupy the Oval Office ... and I think that Boner and Mitch McTurtle are two of the lowest, most craven Repuglicans to ever 'lead' the Repuglicans in Congress. If you think Social Security is safe because it is not explicitly part of this 'deal' ... well, I think you are going to be in for a huge disappointment in a couple of months.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:11 PM

19. Don't worry...those folks will come up with something to....

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:27 PM

39. Already have. Same shit, different day. The Teabagger wing of DU scours the nets for bad newz.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:19 PM

85. +1!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #85)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:24 PM

86. Happy New Year, sheshe! We're both going to have a great day, every day, unlike some...



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Response to freshwest (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:30 PM

87. LOL!

To a Great 2013!
Happiest of New Years, Freshwest!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:17 PM

24. It's like that invasion of Iran they are sure is coming.

It's always right around the corner and has been so since 2004.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:19 PM

28. Well, there's still time for that, you know.

Just give them some more time.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:19 PM

29. Speculative outrage is the best outrage...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:39 PM

50. Isn't it amazing how many people imagined that Obama said chained CPI was on the table?

And how many people imagined that Pelosi said it, too.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:58 PM

75. And nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to..

It's amazing how many posters were dead fucking sure that SS was going to be cut, and it still hasn't been.

Sid

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:22 PM

31. Conjured worries and woes. It's the latest fad at DU.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:31 PM

43. Double, double, toil and trouble...

Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw283.html

Shakespeare had the whole conjuring thing down in Macbeth, I think.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:31 PM

44. So, Obama and Pelosi were lying when they said chained CPI was part of Obama's proposal?

I suppose we should just assume that our "leaders" are lying to us and STFU, eh?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:42 PM

71. Do whatever you want to do.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:27 PM

36. We complain before bad shit happens to prevent it.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:28 PM

40. The OP seems to think that Obama was lying when he said chained CPI was on the table.

I guess we should always assume that Obama is lying?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:37 PM

48. Alot of people seem to think he did it as some kind of a fake-out move to trick the gop.

Seems like selective perception to me.

We'll be back at this again in a couple months.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:45 PM

52. And if it was a trick (which I don't believe), it was a cruel cynical ploy...

using vulnerable people to one up your opponent.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #52)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:52 PM

60. Yeah it's mean.

Anyways it's not a fake offer. The President is completely sincere.

The magic trick is that nobody really knows what his position on anything is.

Well actually we do because he keeps saying it, but some people choose not to believe their own eyes and ears.

People who say it was just a ploy have zero evidence to back that up. While we have plenty of evidence to show Obama has supported benefit cuts.

And the people who defend it are enabling the behavior to continue.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:27 PM

37. Apparently, you have a problem with people taking Obama seriously.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:35 PM

47. No. I have a problem with people looking at things in black and white.

The President keeps bringing it up because he knows that it is incredibly unpopular with the electorate. He knows that even the Republicans can't vote for it. It's a negotiating trick. "See...I'll even throw this thing in the mix...Oh...you don't want that? Well, there you are, then."

Some folks seem to think that Washington negotiations are done in black and white terms. President Obama has no intention of putting Chained CPI in the mix in reality. He's just using it to demonstrate just how lame and obstructive the Republicans are being. It's working.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:49 PM

54. I find it funny that I, an autistic person, can see the nuance, and...

...the "normal" people are ones thinking in black and white.

I think the issue is taboo-based moralistic thinking. In many progressive minds just even TALKING about cuts to SS, even as a mere political ploy, is taboo and Evil with a capital E. It reminds me of deeply religious people with OCD that are in constant terror of going to hell because they have compulsive "blasphemous" thoughts.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:51 PM

59. Interesting. And food for thought.

Magical thinking is always interesting. I hadn't actually looked at it that way before. Thanks!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:22 PM

69. Proudly and insistently guilty my man. That is EXACTLY how I want it to be, Odin.

Utterly off limits, totally taboo, completely unacceptable even in a academic sense without bringing white hot fury and political ruin far worse than getting caught with live boys or dead girls just for consideration of cutting Social Security.

Not only don't touch that third rail, don't even talk about it.

I am dedicated to a very one sided conversation on the safety net, how to expand it.

Hell, if I could I'd make talk of maintaining the status quo toxic in Democratic circles too. If you aren't talking about expanding and closing the holes then you'd best register (R) because you aren't viable with a (D), dead as fried chicken as a matter of fact.

I want the furthest right acceptable discourse to be the status quo and I want that to be the fringe of the fringe.

I do not apologize for this stance and see no merit in any other stance.

I want talks of cuts to mean that you will never be able to run for even dog catcher again even in a beet red district,
that no one will pay you to speak, you will be too toxic to be on stage at even the TeaPubliKlan convention, and no one wants to hear your thoughts on anything.

Hell yes, I want it drilled into politicians heads that they will be beyond done and more than a pariah for such nonsense and the common man on the street may as well be talking about eating babies if they are talking such bullshit.

Do I want talk of safety net cuts to be a "hanging offense", particularly for Democrats even for political ploys? GUILTY AS CHARGED!

It isn't our job to negotiate, that is what legislators are hired for. Our job is to push the miserable fucks and give them as little room to fuck us over as we can muster.
It is not our job to trust anyone to do the right thing, our job is to make them fucking do it whether they want to or not if they don't want to then to replace them with someone who does.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:57 PM

73. Thank you for proving my point!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #73)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:12 PM

80. You're welcome. I don't get any value from your point but am glad to help. I embrace it and wonder

why you don't. The current conversation makes the leftward edge the status quo, how is that a benefit?

What is so complicated about controlling the political spectrum and what is acceptable discourse? That is how events are moved. You have had a generation to get the lesson.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:27 PM

38. I actually think McConnell took it off the table almost immediately after putting it on the table.

Probably got so much blow back from his senior constituents he didn't dare keep it on. Obama has admitted he was willing to "go there."

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:30 PM

42. In One of the 1200 days of upcoming debt ceiling negotiations

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:32 PM

46. The DU doom-reverends had to postpone the rapture/apocalypse again,

I see that the holy ones have weighed in on this thread and that their god has just told them the new date for it.



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Response to tjwash (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:37 PM

49. It is time once again to consult the oracle and cast the bones:

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:52 PM

61. Or a magic 8-ball!

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Response to tjwash (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:51 PM

58. They predict DOOOOOOOOM!!!





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Response to tjwash (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:06 PM

91. Yeah, but.....

Hey, you think GD is bad about this....there are certain places on this site where it's a full-time job for some people.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:41 PM

51. That comes again in the next round

The president is on record saying he supports it.

This is a stopgap measure that doesn't deal with the budget issues, but does settle some things about taxation. At least now companies know what withholding tables to use (or they will if the House passes the measure).

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:50 PM

57. It's certainly no thanks to OurPOTUS that chained CPI wasn't in the deal.

 

He still wants it, so he gets zero credit that it hasn't happened YET.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #57)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:59 PM

65. yeah if he didn't get it, it wasn't for lack of trying.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:54 PM

62. Maybe a lesson on democracy and politics is in order...

When a politician offers up policy or parts to a policy - well, it is on the table for discussion.
What happens is, if nobody says anything about it, well, then the politician is right to think
that the public must like it. So it is made part of the policy.

The lesson here is that anytime a politician puts a policy/bill on the table that We The People don't
want or like - we have to have to voice our opinion loudly and constantly.

Independent of whether it is a bargaining chip or a real policy - we have to insure the politicians
know our position...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #62)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:06 PM

68. Yep.

And sometimes it's put on the table to rouse support against it to get elected reps off their buttocks.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:17 PM

81. Ooh, seeking praise for not dropping the axe OBAMA held over seniors' heads,

twice now, as a hostage to get a deal that makes 80 to 90 percent of the Bush tax cuts permanent.

That takes a lot of chutzpah.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:49 PM

83. February when the next GOP Hostage Event Occurs

 

GOP Hostage taking is getting to be about as frequent as mass shootings with semi-auto weapons in America, coincidence?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:52 PM

103. It's on the table. NT.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:53 AM

108. It's waiting in wings for the next hostage taking.

For someone that has been heavily politically involved for such a long time, MM, you are sounding very much like a naive rookie on this.

"Those who fail to learn from history, are condemned to repeat it."

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:18 AM

109. Some had genuine concern, but some were trolling

The ones who refused to change their tone when it was clear that they were wrong were (and still are) trolling.

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