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Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:24 AM

 

This is no way to govern.

After dealing with the contrived crisis known as the fiscal cliff for nearly two months, we've just been set up for continuing and ongoing governance by contrived crisis.

First, the little air that has now gotten into the room is being sucked right back out by Debt Crisis II(let's not forget it was Debt Crisis I that gave us the Fiscal Cliff). Worse than that, with sequestration just two months down the road, look for Fiscal Cliff II to suck up all the air once we're done with Debt Crisis II.

This is insane, this governing by contrived crisis. It allows no room for anything else to get done. Worse, it open the door for horrible policy, policy that wouldn't normally see the light of day. Furthermore, it dissipates the immense store of political capital that Obama would otherwise have.

Agreeing to set up crisis after crisis, we get it, Obama is bipartisan. In fact he is so bipartisan he is willing to sell out liberals, Democrats, and the country in order to please the most radical among us. He is willing to break promise after promise, nice to see that those making 250,000-450,000 are not going to see their taxes rise. Funny, doesn't the president make 400,000 annually?

This is not a good deal, it simply gives the 'Pugs another chance to chip away, month after month, at the programs they don't like. So, they didn't take up the Obama offer of a chained CPI for SS, don't worry, the 'Pugs are getting at least two more cracks at it in the coming two months.

Nor does this form of governance lend stability and confidence in our government. The American public gets all knotted up by the much hyped fiscal cliff, now they we get to panic about the debt ceiling, or the Fiscal Cliff II.

Meanwhile, nothing else gets done. While our country is reeling from the effects of global climate change, needs to deal with the problem of rampant guns, needs to help the economy further revive, needs to deal with a whole host of issues, all they're going to focus on is the crisis of the month. That is no way to govern.

Obama had the chance to put a stop to this insanity, by simply calling their bluff and going off the fiscal cliff. Despite the hype, there would have been very downside to going over the cliff(or as Robert Reich and others have stated, the fiscal slope). But sadly, that didn't happen. Calling the 'Pugs bluff on the Debt Ceiling II is going to be tougher, but frankly it needs to be done. Otherwise, we're going to spend the next four years like we've spend the last four years, bouncing from contrived crisis to contrived crisis, and getting bad government and bad policy every single time.

This is no victory, just a perpetuation of the bad governance that we've had to deal with for four years now. It is time that Obama stopped dealing with those who don't want to deal with him. It is time he fought back, called their bluff, and backed the bullies down. If he doesn't, they just going to continue to beat him up, and take our lunch money.

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply This is no way to govern. (Original post)
MadHound Jan 2013 OP
Ohio Joe Jan 2013 #1
MadHound Jan 2013 #5
DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #52
HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #7
bowens43 Jan 2013 #38
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #2
MadHound Jan 2013 #6
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #8
eilen Jan 2013 #11
Lasher Jan 2013 #16
BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #18
phleshdef Jan 2013 #55
msanthrope Jan 2013 #22
HiPointDem Jan 2013 #3
djean111 Jan 2013 #4
Pirate Smile Jan 2013 #9
NoMoreWarNow Jan 2013 #21
Pirate Smile Jan 2013 #27
Swede Atlanta Jan 2013 #10
graham4anything Jan 2013 #12
Dawgs Jan 2013 #19
SammyWinstonJack Jan 2013 #25
WashingtonConsensus Jan 2013 #13
DCBob Jan 2013 #14
MadHound Jan 2013 #31
DCBob Jan 2013 #40
MadHound Jan 2013 #53
BrainMann1 Jan 2013 #15
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #33
RBInMaine Jan 2013 #17
msanthrope Jan 2013 #20
lunatica Jan 2013 #23
Botany Jan 2013 #24
bowens43 Jan 2013 #39
ProSense Jan 2013 #26
mother earth Jan 2013 #28
KharmaTrain Jan 2013 #29
mgardener Jan 2013 #30
BumRushDaShow Jan 2013 #32
dotymed Jan 2013 #34
99Forever Jan 2013 #35
obamamyprez Jan 2013 #36
LibertyBell7 Jan 2013 #37
bowens43 Jan 2013 #41
Skidmore Jan 2013 #42
Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #43
woo me with science Jan 2013 #44
TDale313 Jan 2013 #51
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #45
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #46
MuseRider Jan 2013 #47
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #48
Skittles Jan 2013 #49
Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #54
indepat Jan 2013 #50

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:27 AM

1. Repugs repeatedly hold us hostage and we have to blame Obame...

The stupid hurts so bad sometimes.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:31 AM

5. It is up to Obama whether to call the 'Pugs bluff,

 

Do it once and they will back down, it will take the fight right out of them, and they will stop throwing up these contrived crisis situations. The fiscal cliff would have been the perfect opportunity to call their bluff, we should have just gone right on over.

But noooooooo, we backed down again, and it only emboldens the 'Pugs. Worse than that, we used the bad deal on the fiscal cliff to set up the contrived crisis Fiscal Cliff II for only two months down the road.

That's a stupid, foolish way to govern.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:34 PM

52. with all due respect

Do it once and they will back down, it will take the fight right out of them

Sorry, but we cannot assume that. If these folks had any common sense, it would have kicked in a while ago, but no, they know that the sheldon addisons of the world are going to keep shoveling money to them no matter what, because they are doign exactly what they want. it will take a 2014 and 2016 loos before the billionaires l;earn that money does not buy everything.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:35 AM

7. Russia has steppes...we have bluffs...as far as the eye can see.

But after the long fall it's just a tiny 'pffhhh'

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:52 AM

38. wrong....

Obama had all the cards this time. No one was held hostage. All he had to do was do nothing.

Obama bent over backwards to give the cons what they wanted. The OP is right on the money.


We have been sold out yet again.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:27 AM

2. The President makes a lot more than $400K annually

His book sales put him way north of that. So there goes that aspect of your "argument." You really thought he was trying to save himself a few bucks?

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:33 AM

6. Just noting an interesting fact.

 

The pay for the president is 400,000 annually, and he lives pretty large. Don't you think that he, and others who make that kind of money, need to start paying their fair share?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:38 AM

8. For starters, he made about $800K last year

So his taxes are going up:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/13/11184004-obama-tax-return-shows-2011-earnings-of-789674?lite

And he has continually lobbied for higher rates for himself. Anyone who has paid attention knows that.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:45 AM

11. That and he just increased his salary, and that of Congress. nt.

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Response to eilen (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:00 AM

16. That salary increase is rescinded by the fiscal cliff deal.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:05 AM

18. An obvious attempt to ease his personal tax burden

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Response to eilen (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:43 AM

55. He didn't increase his salary. He doesn't have the power to do that.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:13 AM

22. You just accused the President of an impeachable offense--manipulating the tax code for personal

gain. Care to back that accusation up with facts, or are you going to edit?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/president_obama_complete_return_2011.pdf

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:28 AM

3. Insane indeed.

 

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:29 AM

4. Agree 100%.

And see no reason to celebrate until all of the contrived crises are dealt with.
I heard that "shared sacrifice" remark.
Tell you one thing - Obama signing that order to raise salaries has pissed off a lot of the GOPers I know.
They feel he should not have signed it.
I think he should have put it off for a while.
No point in trying to explain it - and from what I have seen, this is just top-level jobs, not rank and file?
Explanations are off the table - they are just mad.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:42 AM

9. I'm afraid this country has been governing this way off and on since the beginning of its existence

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Response to Pirate Smile (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:12 AM

21. thanks-- good piece

 

when will we ever be rid of these assholes????

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:24 AM

27. Never. We just try to mitigate the damage they can cause.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:44 AM

10. Completely agree....

First of all the House has yet to vote on this "deal" and, after a night of boozing it up, I suspect many of the most rabid members of the Teabagger thuggery may be more than happy to "tempt" the tiger by refusing to vote yes. I hope not but it would not surprise me at all.

Second, those of us that are wage earners (not getting our income from capital gains, etc.) will have an additional 2% taken out of each paycheck. Granted this was a temporary reduction in order to spur consumption but it nevertheless will result in less income in the pockets of the majority of consumers.

I haven't seen any analysis but I seriously doubt the additional revenue, had the threshold be set at $250K versus $400K, would have really made much of a difference.

The real problem we have is this is just the beginning of the hostage taking. The next fights will come over spending cuts with the GOP fully intending to gut SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Education, etc. as much as possible in order to save the investment the financial services and arms dealers have made in buying Congress.

I fully expect Obama will once again accommodate them and we will see real benefits to the social safety net and real investment in education and infrastructure fall with little to no reductions for the military-industrial complex.

Then the debt ceiling will hit. The GOP likes to tell the American people they won't agree to raising the debt ceiling unless spending is cut (never any discussion about raising revenues) despite the fact the debt ceiling has nothing to do with FUTURE spending but is needed to borrow to fund PAST spending. If they want to hold the line on spending then do it with respect to FUTURE spending but don't raise the cost of borrowing for the country by playing games with the debt ceiling.

I am not optimistic. I think many in the GOP, egged on by the tea baggers, see demographics changing and do understand their party is in free fall. Given that I don't think they much care if they take the country down with them. They are that full of hate and loathing for this country and its people. The only things they care about are their own personal finances and the well-being of their corporate suitors.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:46 AM

12. Obama roped the dopes again. Give it up.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:07 AM

19. "Rope the dopes"? It's a bad deal for America.

We all lose.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:20 AM

25. I guess we are the dopes.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:46 AM

13. The 3 stages

1. Man, this is just lurching from crisis to crisis

2. This is just lurching from contrived crisis to contrived crisis.

3. Oh...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:54 AM

14. Playing chicken with psychos is not wise.

Nursing our economy back to life is still the Presidents main job. If we fall back into recession nothing much else will matter.

IMO, this was best deal he could get with the makeup of the current congress... and I think it was a rather good deal.. even Bernie Sanders approved it.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:16 AM

31. Then why did Obama and the Dems set up another contrived crisis just two months down the road?

 

Playing chicken period is no way to govern, yet here we are, stuck in this cycle of having to go through another game of government chicken, time after time.

Time to stand up, stop playing chicken. The only way to do that is to call the 'Pugs bluff. This was the perfect opportunity to do so, yet instead, they made up another contrived crisis.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:56 AM

40. because a comprehensive deal was not possible now.

Given the circumstnaces the only option was kicking the can down the road once again. I think the next round of negotiations might actually go better even though they have the debt limit to hang over us. The new congress will be more favorable to us and fewer tp extremists for Boener to deal with.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #40)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:18 PM

53. No, the only option was to stand up to the bully,

 

Go over the damn fiscal cliff and show the 'Pugs that Obama and the Dems aren't playing these games anymore. Seriously, how many times, how many of these contrived crisises does it take for you to realize that we the people are being screwed.

Each deal that is made, each "crisis" that is averted by some last minute "deal" means that the American people are losing out just a little bit more. Creeping austerity is what we're seeing, and it is being implemented in a manner that can only be described as repeated Shock Doctrine. "OMG, some crisis, some deadline is looming, and if we go past the deadline we'll all die, so in order to not go over that deadline, here, eat this pile of shit." How many piles of shit are you willing to eat before you say enough?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:55 AM

15. Lets get something straight

We all now the GOP would have let this country go to hell rather than say they would to a black man. We still don't get get. It took the Vice Prez to help get this done, you see that don't you. Now the kicker this election really showed America what the GOP is all about and it's not change. Don't blame Obama he showed us all that he would put this country first rather than run it in the ground like the GOP would. Vote them out in the next elections and stop complaining.

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Response to BrainMann1 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:34 AM

33. Welcome to DU--home to many who blame Obama first rather than

Republicans. You'll be making good use of the Trash thread and IGNORE options.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:05 AM

17. More purist nonsense from MadHound, the always-angry man. YAWN...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:11 AM

20. You just accused the President of maniuplating the tax code for his personal gain. Prove what you

are accusing the President of, or edit your post. You have accused this President of an impeachable offense, and frankly, unless you can prove it, you need to retract it.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/president_obama_complete_return_2011.pdf

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:16 AM

23. You had me until your 4th paragraph where you just had to jump of the cliff

sigh...

I don't put people on ignore literally, but I'm not going to bother reading you threads again.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:19 AM

24. R you kidding me?

The President did make the republicans become obstructionist assholes.
They did that on their own and in his judgement going over the cliff would
have hurt millions of Americans and the economy too.

Besides from what little I understand he and Biden got just about everything
they wanted in this deal.

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Response to Botany (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:53 AM

39. No they didn't get what they wanted.

Less then a third of the revenues and basically nothing else.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:23 AM

26. I really don't

"This is not a good deal, it simply gives the 'Pugs another chance to chip away, month after month, at the programs they don't like. So, they didn't take up the Obama offer of a chained CPI for SS, don't worry, the 'Pugs are getting at least two more cracks at it in the coming two months."

...think you even know what's in the deal. Sometimes just reciting the same tired opposition doesn't work.

On second thought: This bill includes no spending cuts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022109603

Krugman's Perspective on the Deal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022109580

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:24 AM

28. It's all a farce & we pay them for this kabuki theater...joke's on us. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:30 AM

29. Representative Democracy Is Not Pretty...

So do you advocate we have one party rule or revise the Constitution to make the Executive responsible for all matters financial? So let's say "President Obama called their bluff" last night, we'd have several million people without unemployment benefits, taxes raised on everyone (not to mention the "bracket creep many low and middle income people have endured over the past decade) and deep budget cuts would have taken place on many programs that would have hurt the most vulnerable among us. Fine...that doesn't begin to address the problem of the looming debt ceiling and the strong possibility the government will shut down and the government will temporarily default on its debts.

Unfortunately as long as the rushpublicans control the House, they need to sign off on any budget deal. Don't blame President Obama...blame the "founding fathers" who gave the power of the purse to the Congress. Want to play the games you'd like? Really stick it to the rushpublicans? Then that'll require electing at least 30 Democrats (of course make sure they pass the "Progressive/Liberal purity tests") that will flip the House and find another 10 or so "purity approved" Democrats for the Senate.

Yep...this is no victory...and it won't be as long as there are two sides that have extremes that refuse to talk or work with one another...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:41 AM

30. This is so true.

If I performed my job, they way the republicans have, lying, whining and just plain went home for the holidays, I would have been fired.
If any of us worked like they do, we would would be out of a job, no workers comp either.
They work less hours then we do, do less work and get great health benefits.
Who else do you know who gets to vote for their own raises?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:18 AM

32. "simply calling their bluff and going off the fiscal cliff"

Hello? We went over the "cliff". And we're still over the cliff.



There is no law that is in effect at the moment. Not until the House passes (unamended) the bill that the Senate voted on 2 hours after the Bush cuts expired (sending us over the cliff) and the President signs it. If the House refuses to vote on it or amends it to the point where the Senate rejects it when it comes back to them to vote on again, then we will still be "over the cliff". AND if no action happens on it by Thursday when the next Congress is sworn in, then it's all moot and they would have to start all over.

I.e., I hope that we don't get into the same technical misinformation that we went through with the ACA where the dumbass media made it appear as if various versions of the Senate "bill" was THE final law and that was it, with no need to reconcile versions between the Senate and House nor any need for any other actions, etc.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:50 AM

34. You are gonna get beat up by the "party first" dems......

Rational thinking flies out the window when you dis their fearless leader...Of course, I voted Obama, the lesser of two evils. We have to change our electoral process or keep getting raped. I guess it's my turn now...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:51 AM

35. ***This***

"This is no victory, just a perpetuation of the bad governance that we've had to deal with for four years now. It is time that Obama stopped dealing with those who don't want to deal with him. It is time he fought back, called their bluff, and backed the bullies down. If he doesn't, they just going to continue to beat him up, and take our lunch money."

^^^^^^^^^^^That^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unfortunately, this is very hope that it will happen. It's just not the Third Way.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:51 AM

36. Shock doctrine

 

is shockingly effective.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:51 AM

37. On most points, I agree...but there would have been a price for going over

First — yes. Absolutely. This is no way to govern. More on this later.

Second, the cost to going over the cliff: Roughly 2 million unemployed would have had their relief checks cut off starting today. Though estimates I've seen vary quite a bit, and it wouldn't have pulled the drain plug all at once, that's something in the ballpark of $70,000,000 that would not be funneled into grocery stores and/or to utilities in one month. And people would have grown hungry or cold in that time.

That's a cost.

Back to the governance problem:

In shorthand, I call all Rethugs and Blue Dog DINOs Corporazis, and they are economic terrorists intent on destroying democracy. They are waging war against our methods of governance and, until we who are not Corporazis recognize their intent (waging war), we cannot prevail. You have to name a thing before you can gain control over it.

From a past voice, we hear this perspective:

“We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

–Louis Brandeis
U.S. Supreme Court Justice (1856-1941)


Military leaders tell us, "You don't negotiate with terrorists." And until these Corporazis are labeled by their tactics — including that they are systematically pulling apart our democratic republic (everything from making congress and the courts into dysfunctional messes on the federal level to voter suppression in the states) — we will be unable to staunch the bleeding wounds they are inflicting and turn the tide.

It's time to choose the red or the blue pill, to choose to wake up in the Matrix of their making and fight back, or continue to slumber until they have completed creating America, Inc., where corporate rights trump those of We The People every time.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 10:58 AM

41. This is exactly right.

We got another shitty temporary (except for the wealthy who make between 250,000-and 400,000, they got a permanent tax break) deal because Obama once again caved in to the cons. All he had do was do nothing. He then would have been in a very strong bargaining position. Now he has nothing and in two months the cons are going to destroy him in negotiations.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:01 AM

42. Go effin' tell that to the Republican/Teabagger obstructionists who

you apparently have no problem with. You must hate the President intensely to come up with some of the crap that slap on this forum wall.

Someone posted this on GD a couple of days ago and I copied it to use, but you may want to take a good look before you lob more shitballs in the room:

Two Years Ago, John Boehner promised to be "Laser Focused on Jobs and the Economy" So what has the GOP House been up to?

House Bills passed:
46 Bills on Abortion
113 Bills on Religion
73 Bills on Family Relationships
36 Bills on Marriage
72 Bills on Firearms
604 Bills on Taxation
437 Bills on Govt Investigations

Bills attempted and failed to be passed even by the GOP:
33 attempts to Defund Obamacare.....Failed
15 attempts to Cut Funding for Planned Parenthood......Failed
3 Attempts to Cut Funding for VA Hospitals.......Failed.

GOP blocked bills:
Blocked bill to aid Small Business
Blocked Unemployment extension
Blocked Bank Reform Bills
Blocked Campaign Finance Reform and open Contributions Law
Blocked MULTIPLE Jobs Bills
Blocked Infrastructure Bill
Blocked Ending Tax Breaks for companies that Outsource Jobs
Blocked Wall Street Reform
Blocked Energy Legislation
Blocked Mine Safety Bill
Blocked Oil Spill Liability Cap increase
Blocked Bill to lower Oil Company Tax Breaks
Blocked Bill to impose charging American Oil Companies on Oil achieved in the Gulf

Number of TRUE Jobs Bills even allowed to come to a vote in the House....NONE.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:10 AM

43. Now THAT's truly 'no way to govern'

In a blind attempt to smear the current Democratic administration by any & all means necessary, the OP is oblivious to the elephant in the room, which is the true source of governmental failure.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:14 AM

44. Government by Shock Doctrine.

We have a problem, and it's not a small one.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:20 PM

51. ^^^ this^^^

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:52 AM

45. Obama participated in creating the fiscal cliff

I can hardly give him credit for saving us from his own doing. Now, back to using chained CPI as a bargaining chip...

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:05 PM

46. It's a symptom of Teabagger idiocy running amok in the House.

Many of the Baggers represent very red districts where they have more to fear from an even more extremist primary challenger than from the rest of the American people. Thus they have no incentive to NOT do this shit.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:11 PM

47. LOL

I just wrote a long post but it was mostly ranting opinion, none of which anyone wants or needs to hear. In essence it was my little rant and opinion that agreed with you so there, all I need say is that I think you are correct and I agree. Done, that was easier for me and most definitely easier on all of you.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 04:49 PM

48. Speaking as one of the most radical among us,

 

how about a little pleasing over on this side for a change?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 08:11 PM

49. and SOOO many DUers fall for it

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Response to Skittles (Reply #49)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:37 AM

54. I think I owe you an apology. n/t

 

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:09 PM

50. Surely at some point the President will realize no one can successfully negotiate with those acting

in both bad faith and contrary to the best interests of the country, especially when those acting in bad faith are, in reality, conscious-less terrorists also lacking basic humanity and decency.

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