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Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:26 AM

Can't people on DU find forgiveness in their hearts?

I'm continually amazed by the callousness I find on DU.

Our President wants to put the robo-signing mess behind us. Why is that so controversial? Have we become so hardened that we cannot find a little forgiveness in our hearts?

Sure, these good folks committed perjury that wrecked many thousands of lives - but not once did they commit perjury about their own personal sex lives. And they sure as hell didn't smoke pot. Given these facts, I believe that they are not a danger to society. And I hope that you'll join me in cheering the end of the private Hells that these bankers have been living in.

Tomorrow is a new day. Let's forgive and forget.

94 replies, 12233 views

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Arrow 94 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can't people on DU find forgiveness in their hearts? (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 OP
FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #1
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #2
think Jan 2012 #6
russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #78
Zorra Jan 2012 #93
Earth_First Jan 2012 #3
ProSense Jan 2012 #4
riderinthestorm Jan 2012 #9
truedelphi Jan 2012 #72
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #10
ProSense Jan 2012 #13
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #14
LineLineLineLineLineReply I
ProSense Jan 2012 #17
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #21
ProSense Jan 2012 #26
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #27
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
ProSense Jan 2012 #28
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #30
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
ProSense Jan 2012 #34
progressoid Jan 2012 #69
ProSense Jan 2012 #75
Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #5
Lionessa Jan 2012 #7
DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #11
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #12
DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #18
Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #61
backscatter712 Jan 2012 #8
provis99 Jan 2012 #81
gateley Jan 2012 #85
AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #15
Vanje Jan 2012 #16
joshcryer Jan 2012 #19
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #25
joshcryer Jan 2012 #29
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #31
joshcryer Jan 2012 #32
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #33
joshcryer Jan 2012 #35
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #36
joshcryer Jan 2012 #37
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #38
joshcryer Jan 2012 #39
Matariki Jan 2012 #62
tpsbmam Jan 2012 #87
Chan790 Jan 2012 #45
joshcryer Jan 2012 #46
LooseWilly Jan 2012 #48
joshcryer Jan 2012 #50
Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #53
MFrohike Jan 2012 #80
L0oniX Jan 2012 #66
L0oniX Jan 2012 #67
truedelphi Jan 2012 #73
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #20
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #22
truedelphi Jan 2012 #74
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #23
bhikkhu Jan 2012 #24
TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #40
eomer Jan 2012 #49
rucky Jan 2012 #51
unapatriciated Jan 2012 #55
L0oniX Jan 2012 #65
_ed_ Jan 2012 #63
bhikkhu Jan 2012 #90
truedelphi Jan 2012 #76
russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #79
bhikkhu Jan 2012 #89
russspeakeasy Jan 2012 #94
EFerrari Jan 2012 #41
gateley Jan 2012 #86
EFerrari Jan 2012 #92
NuttyFluffers Jan 2012 #42
kickysnana Jan 2012 #43
TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #44
lonestarnot Jan 2012 #47
xchrom Jan 2012 #52
Autumn Jan 2012 #54
Brickbat Jan 2012 #56
zipplewrath Jan 2012 #57
guitar man Jan 2012 #58
Swede Jan 2012 #59
PA Democrat Jan 2012 #60
L0oniX Jan 2012 #64
Kablooie Jan 2012 #68
progressoid Jan 2012 #70
The Wizard Jan 2012 #71
Zorra Jan 2012 #77
mistertrickster Jan 2012 #82
jimlup Jan 2012 #83
Better Believe It Jan 2012 #84
Skittles Jan 2012 #88
Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #91

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:28 AM

1. Talk to some Homeless Folks about it

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:31 AM

2. No, they are nasty people.

The other day I tried to collect money from the homeless for a charity to help the bankers - did you know that some bankers only have three homes? In any case, the homeless people wouldn't contribute. One actually yelled bad words at me.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM

6. i'm feeling all warm and fuzzy. what is that? please make it stop...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:33 PM

78. That was me, Manny. I wasn't yelling bad words. I was trying to breathe.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:38 PM

93. So that was

you that I was screaming at?!?!?

The filthy hydrofracking mofo fascist zombie cabin boy?

You got away, huh? That's too bad.

(BTW, I'm not homeless, I'm an Occupier, and no, I don't have Tourette's)

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:33 AM

3. Yeah, sure...

Let's just have full out amnesty day, right after I get done robbing a bank, then we'll talk...

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM

4. What

Our President wants to put the robo-signing mess behind us. Why is that so controversial? Have we become so hardened that we cannot find a little forgiveness in our hearts?

<...>

Tomorrow is a new day. Let's forgive and forget.

...if this turns out like the Social Security announcement in the last SOTU?

What if we're surprised? Remember the CFPB:

The CFPB had already rolled out a public education campaign, “Know Before You Owe,” to improve financial literacy on the consumer side as well before Cordray officially took office last week. But Obama’s recess appointment unleashed the watchdog’s full enforcement authority. Over the past few days, the CFPB also launched its first known investigation into a financial firm, probing kickbacks that were allegedly paid to PHH Corp., a private mortgage lender.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002163578

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Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:40 AM

9. Bookmarking this for tomorrow. Really interested in your response to Obama's announcement then. nt

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:09 PM

72. I couldn't understand the response, but then

There's a lot I don't know.

Like I never thought I'd see the day when Manny Goldstein had so much forgiveness in his heart!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:40 AM

10. Rep. Conyers: Obama Demanded Social Security Cuts--Not GOP

Rep. Conyers: Obama Demanded Social Security Cuts--Not GOP

Of course, and as you know, last year's SOTU was where Obama debuted his cute "cut vs. slash" nonsense:

Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:43 AM

13. Wait

you're still waiting for the cuts?



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Response to ProSense (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:45 AM

14. You think that attempts to slash Social Security are funny?

I think that you're better than that.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:47 AM

17. I

think invoking speculation in response to the fact that no cuts were announced in the SOTU or the fact that no cuts materialized is funny.

I'm laughing.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:53 AM

21. How could he possibly announce cuts at the SOTU? He simply called for them

using his "cut vs. slash" word games that the press finally caught up with:

Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?

And he lied about Social Security needing to be "strengthened", another cute game by Obama, Pete Peterson, and that crowd. At least he didn't yet again repeat the lie that FDR didn't start Social Security for retirees.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:59 AM

26. Hmmm?

And he lied about Social Security needing to be "strengthened", another cute game by Obama, Pete Peterson, and that crowd. At least he didn't yet again repeat the lie that FDR didn't start Social Security for retirees.


Familiar with this:

Strengthen Social Security Campaign
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/media/blog/2011/sanders%E2%80%99-bill-s-1558-guarantees-social-security-for-75-years

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Response to ProSense (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:01 AM

27. An unfortunate choice of words

Given that "strengthen" is often used by Obama, Simpson, and that crowd as a code word for slashing benefits.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:02 AM

28. .



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Response to ProSense (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:04 AM

30. I love it when you pull out the laughing guy

It's your little way of saying that you've been checkmated.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:17 AM

34. .

"An unfortunate choice of words"



Still, keep me posted on the past speculation and if you come across any cuts.



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:10 PM

69. Well,

It's better than a link to a Ron Paul post.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #69)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:16 PM

75. Here's

"Well, It's better than a link to a Ron Paul post."

...a another "better" link:

Political Push Moves a Deal on Mortgages Inches Closer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002211735


Looks like this analogy (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002210784#post4) is accurate.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM

5. Thanks Manny for putting this in perspective.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM

7. Short, sweet, and almost Onion worthy.

 

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:41 AM

11. Definitely shalot-worthy

 

Or however you spell those things.

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Response to DeathToTheOil (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:42 AM

12. I like shallots.

Thank you. I think.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:49 AM

18. I commend you

 

For not using the icon. When you label it, you neuter it.

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Response to DeathToTheOil (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:11 AM

61. Allow me to bestow the honors

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM

8. The sarcasm's pretty subtle on this one... n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:49 PM

81. Manny's sarcasm is always subtle.

 

sometimes, there are lunkheads on DU who don't get sarcasm unless it has the big irritating sarcasm smilie all over it.

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Response to provis99 (Reply #81)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:45 PM

85. In a post like this from Manny, how could anyone not get the sarcasm? Consider the source.



I vehemently disagree with Manny and sometimes I want to wring his neck, but I like him. He's persistent and believes what he's saying. Over and over. Never gives up. He makes me smile -- I can't help it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:45 AM

15. Maybe it is good to practice sarcasm now. After the nomination, we may be limited to using it.

 

Let's see, where did I put my Voltaire?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:46 AM

16. Kay an Arrrgh! nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:49 AM

19. I'm not sure that the progressive thing would be to penalize the 100s of thousands...

...of employees involved in the robosigning debacle just for following orders.

Though we shouldn't give the banks blanket immunity, we should make exceptions for the bosses who ordered the peons to do it, and places where it was systematic and where you can show evidence that the individuals involved knew it was wrong.

So, while your derisive sarcasm seems at least somewhat amusing, in reality it reflects a truly non-progressive value system, where hundreds of thousands of people are fined, penalized, or even criminalized for following orders, in many cases, probably ignorantly.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:57 AM

25. And just what did I propose?

Please be specific.

Thanks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:03 AM

29. Nothing at all, as is par for the course.

It was just pointless derision, imo, and I was trying to interject a bit of substance into the derisive sarcastic commentary, since it's doubtful anyone else will.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:05 AM

31. But didn't you accuse me of projecting a "truly non-progressive value system"?

Did I propose said value system via telepathy?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:08 AM

32. Nope.

I said your derisive sarcasm "reflects a truly non-progressive value system." You may, in fact, not actually believe the sarcastic undertones which manifest themselves in your post. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "find forgiveness in their hearts"?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:12 AM

33. I was being sarcastic.

For the record, here's what I believe:

1. Any attorney who robosigned, or ordered robosigning, should go to jail. They knowingly committed perjury.
2. The "Nuremberg rules" should be applied to anyone further down the food chain who robosigned: following orders should not mitigate conviction, but it can mitigate punishment.
3. Any company in which robosigning occurred should be fined.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:17 AM

35. So, you do hold the non-progressive values I ascribed to you.

Now that that's out of the way, you think we should fine and / or prosecute tens if not hundreds of thousands of people.

And people wonder why such inanities are taken seriously.

Full disclosure here, I am 100% against blanket immunity, as I believe higher tier individuals do not deserve immunity. But the low level mom and pop brokers most certainly deserve immunity, as they likely acted ignorantly if not coerced in a time when jobs were at risk. I don't buy the "Nuremberg rules" here because I partook in mortgage law in the past, it is some of the most convoluted stuff out there. I think people were just incapable of following the rules properly and ultimately pressured to do them.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:20 AM

36. They signed pretty straightforward affidavits, no?

What am I missing here?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:31 AM

37. Under the auspices of MERS-enabled proxy. The electronic nature of MERS...

...meant that many of the employees who signed these things were doing so ignorantly of the laws in states (which require the foreclosing agency to actually hold title, which MERS most certainly did not do). Other states, however, it's perfectly legal.

We need to grant immunity to all the peons, and then fix the system by going after the higher ups who intentionally exploited these loopholes. Meanwhile we need to standardize the mortgage system so that this sort of thing isn't possible in the future. Like the Uniform Commercial Code which covers pretty much all commercial business practices in a huge chunk of states. We need a Uniform Real Estate Code.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:35 AM

38. I thought they attested to false information

Is this not the case?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:42 AM

39. They're handling it state by state. The GOPers tried to legalize MERS' actions across the board...

...by making it so that all electronically filed mortgages handled by MERS were legitimate across interstate borders.

Obama denied them that, fortunately.

MERS is maintaining that what they did was legal, and playing the game of "it's the banks' fault." Well, yeah, it is, they should know better. But the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of peons who played along probably didn't.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:01 AM

62. It's "non-progressive" to want criminals in the banking industry punished for their crimes?

That's a new one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:52 PM

87. You'd let the mucky-mucks go free, Manny?

Not me! The executives who ordered the robosigning, approved it or condoned it within those companies would be at the top of my prosecution list! Though I'm with you -- the people who are doing the robosigning knew they were doing a bad thing when they did it, yet they went for the easy buck and went along, knowingly being a part of the illegal and evil system. That's based on the things that robosigners have said after-the-fact.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:37 AM

45. As a former banker...

we were told daily and unapologetically that we alone were legally and morally responsible for our conduct, even if following a direct order and that if we had any concern or qualms about an order to call "Compliance" at XXX-XXX-xxxx. Failing to do so, we were accepting civil and criminal responsibility for our actions. Note that "Compliance" is transparent to regulators.

Note that I am no longer a banker. I'm also fully in support of "(penalizing) the 100s of thousands of employees involved in the robosigning debacle just for following orders." Nobody reaches those levels in the bank or is allowed to do that job without the licenses, training and certifications to know what they should and should not be doing or signing.

I was only following orders has never been an acceptable defense in anything.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:23 AM

46. It is highly unconventional to expect peons to know other states' laws.

They have a defense on that alone. Each state has its own individual laws. MERS made it so that those peons were signing stuff that was legal in one state while illegal in another. It's likely that some people signed off on some things that were both illegal and legal in a single days time. It is highly wrong to blame those people for something that the bankers and their lawyers knew ahead of time was wrong. You spend 8 hours a day robosigning foreclosure notices, a chunk of them are legal, another chunk is illegal, and you're incapable of knowing which because you need to know the laws in all 50 states. No mortgage broker or proxy would know all of those laws. Each one has a credible defense against such things.

It is not progressive to go after those people after having been caught in a banker trap of illegalities. This is not a defense at the banker level as I have already expressed that they don't deserve those exceptions (they should have known better).

Let's just hope that while you were a banker you never used MERS because it's damn likely that at some point in time you were using it against the laws of a given state, and extradition can happen.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:09 AM

48. You are ignoring the assertion that those you call "peons" needed certifications for the job...

"Nobody reaches those levels in the bank or is allowed to do that job without the licenses, training and certifications to know what they should and should not be doing or signing. "

That doesn't sound like any of the definitions of "peon", either literal or metaphorical, that I've ever heard.

If the robosigners were all required to be licensed, trained & certified... then there is a legal expectation that they know what the fuck they're doing. If they decide, under duress or just for the sake of convenience, to circumvent the legal (not to mention ethical) expectations of their training and certification... then they ought to be held responsible.

If they ARE held responsible... then no trained & certified professionals will be inclined to side-step all of the ethical considerations of their training and certification process. If NOT, then they, like the Wall St. types, will be inclined to ignore ethical constraints that are "just for show" and paperwork.

It's kind of the same thing as the holding responsible of those who ordered torture... those who performed it (like those who enforced the evictions robo-signed) can be considered "peon"s in the sense that they're enforcing the rules in the "fields"/streets... but those who signed into effect those orders have to take responsibility, as certified competent signers-into-effect, for what they signed.

Let the banks train monkeys or guinea pigs to sign the signing statements if they're worried about what a signer might say under duress from the DOJ ("Row. Row. Row."), or if they want to be able to claim that no one is ultimately responsible for statements being signed...

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Response to LooseWilly (Reply #48)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:30 AM

50. That's now how it works, you're licensed in the state you work in.

States don't require you to know every other states laws to be able to be licensed in said state. There is absolutely no legal expectation that they know what they're doing in other states.

This is not clear cut like torture, states real estate law differs from state to state, there's no general idea of what real estate law means, particularly when it regards paperwork signed by proxy. Some states allow it, other states require deeds to be on record, etc. MERS has won several lawsuits in states where their behavior is allowed, and every robosigner responsible for it has got off scott free (and arguably did nothing illegal in that state).

You're advocating allowing some states with laws against some behavior, trump those states with laws for some behavior, which itself is highly non-progressive. At the bare minimum the people in charge are responsible for knowing whether or not a given state allows said behavior, and if those people in charge tell the peons to behave a certain way that goes against a state law, those people in charge need to be charged with crimes, not those who followed what they believe were normal.

Again, this is not like torture, torture has clearly defined lines. This is about workers doing something illegal in one state that is legal in another. You cannot expect me to believe those workers are "responsible" when their bosses likely knew the end results and compelled the workers to behave that way. It's bullshit, non-progressive, and puts the onus on the workers and not the managers with regards to legality. That's just totally wrong. These people did nothing inherently wrong except do what they were told so they could keep their jobs!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:58 AM

53. See, once you use the word 'peons' to frame financial industry people

it is too late to start speaking of definitions. Words MEAN things. Peon fits the folks who are now without homes or owing huge amounts.

Peon: person held in compulsory servitude to a master for the working out of an indebtedness

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peon

An extremely editorial and incorrect choice of word. Ironic actually.

Peon: : a member of the landless laboring class.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #50)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:40 PM

80. Bullshit

No state allows for the filing of false or forged documents in court. Try again.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #45)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:39 AM

66. Agree ...it's like working for Al Capone as a book keeper and saying "I never killed anyone or ... "

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:43 AM

67. So if you work for Al Capone as a book keeper you are not guilty of murder. Ok.

If you drive the get away car you are not guilty of what ever the others did. "I was just driving a car" ...and since when is ignorance an acceptable excuse in a court of law? I suppose all the US bomb makers are also not guilty of killing the innocent.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:12 PM

73. The point is, if this nation did not rank 27th in terms of Social Justice,

It would be the Big Shots That Went Down.

Not the person making $ 500 a week, the people who hired that person.

Yet another reason to vote Democratic - who in the world would want us to be number 30th in terms of Social Justice?





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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:52 AM

20. The banksters are willing to generously forgive the people they ripped off and hold no grudges.

And, they will, with sadness, give up the jail time they so richly deserved.

Then they'll laugh their asses off.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM

22. I know that you're mocking me

But remember: some bankers will laugh so hard that they'll piss themselves. This will further add to their discomfort and humiliation.

This is reality, not a game. Real bankers are really hurting.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:14 PM

74. Maybe we aren't mocking you.

I truly am amazed at the forgiveness angle.

But enjoying it all none the less.

Did it come to you through Course of Miracles? If so, I'll gladly start going to that course. i just want the anger inside me to end.



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM

23. Oh poor dears



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM

24. A 25 billion dollar penalty isn't forgiveness...

I think its a rather good fit to the technical issues and carelessness of the robo-signing issue, and it should go to very good use.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:48 AM

40. Would it be a "good fit" I stole a couple grand of your money and got off clean for $20?

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:36 AM

49. Who's going to pay that $25 billion?

Fining the corporations will allow the individual banksters to avoid punishment. Instead of coming out of their scandalous bonuses, the fines will one way or another be passed on to us. We just fined ourselves $25 billion. Yay!

These guys need to be prosecuted personally and have civil suits against them personally to wrest away their ill gotten gains.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:34 AM

51. A 25 billion dollar penalty...

is the "cost of doing business"

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Response to rucky (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:43 AM

55. yep.

They factor in the cost if they should get caught breaking the law. It's always a win for them.
Insurance Companies have been doing this for decades.
This shows intent and it is time we actually prosecuted them since 'corporations are people too'.

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Response to rucky (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:35 AM

65. Chump change for them.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:28 AM

63. 25 Billion compared to 7 Trillion from QE

Not to even mention TARP.

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Response to _ed_ (Reply #63)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:47 PM

90. ...all of which was short-term loans in relatively small amounts

and all of which was paid back, if we are talking about the banking sector.

25 billion compares well if you look at the actual values of the banks themselves - http://www.relbanks.com/top-us-banks/market-cap . You could get close to a controlling share of Goldman for that.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:19 PM

76. I keep wondering how Martha Stewart feels about all this.

Remember how in reading her jail time sentence to her, her judge said that there had to be consequences for dishonest behavior regarding the stock market?

That judge made it sound like Martha had brought down the American economy.

Now w we have Bankers who DID bring down the American economy, and they will never see the inside of a jail cell. At least not as long as Corporate-enabling politicians are addicted to campaign monies.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:39 PM

79. Make it a trillion, then we'll talk.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #79)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:44 PM

89. For 1 trillion, you could buy the top 30 banks in the US

with plenty left over. http://www.relbanks.com/top-us-banks/market-cap

The largest bank. for instance, is worth $161 billion. Goldman Sachs is at $53 billion - that's the total value of their shares on the stock market.

I wonder if some of the problem people have with this is how quickly the sense of scale is lost when getting up into numbers that high, or whether the banks are mixed in with investment firms and hedge funds in people's understanding. They are quite separate, and the values given at the link are the actual market values of the complete companies.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:14 PM

94. $25 billion is a drop in their "stole from" bucket.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:53 AM

41. So that whole penitence before forgiveness thing I learned in Catholic school has been superceded?

These kids today.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:55 PM

86. Penance?

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Response to gateley (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:58 PM

92. Penitence means being sorry. Penance is the ritual prayers people do

to expiate sin.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:00 AM

42. indeed, to forgive is divine.

*tee hee hee*

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:04 AM

43. Sorry,no forgiveness for corporations, cartels and crimminals at least until they are convicted and

their sentence is done and they have truly repented ruining peoples lives for greed and promise not to do it again.

I am a bleeding heart liberal, not bleeding heart stupid.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:25 AM

44. If one of "the small people" steal $500 the call is for jail time, felon status, and

thousands in fines but if a rich man steals many billions or even trillions the idea is at most a fine that is a tiny percentage of the take.

There would be mobs marching in the streets with pitches and pitchforks if the average guy that stole a TV from Walmart was settling out for say a hundred bucks.

Folks were getting the vapors at the mention of withholding bonuses for the fatcats and even supposed progressives would hit the fainting couches if any talk of clawbacks came up.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:45 AM

47. What a steaming pile of fuckrot! Forgive? Forget? Soon as they are held accountable.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:44 AM

52. du rec. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:16 AM

54. I can forgive, but I don't chose to forget.

In church they told me to turn the other cheek, my Mom told me that's right Baby, but you better damn well remember you only have one other cheek to turn, after that you let them have it with both barrels.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:46 AM

56. Delicious as always, Manny. K&R.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:51 AM

57. Look forward not backward

Sounds like you get it. Shouldn't we be looking forward, not backward? Well, unless your backward is to a $300K mortgage that you owe on a $150K house. THAT is forever.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:54 AM

58. Haha!

You can sure tell who just reads the subject line as opposed to the whole post

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:10 AM

60. I'm sending those CEOs Valentines!

Except former Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne. He smokes pot. No Valentine for him!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:33 AM

64. Hopeychangeaforgivalicous.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:02 PM

68. OK, I forgive him. And I'll forgive him once more when it happens all over again.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:18 PM

70. I agree.

Also, penalizing these job creators just out of spite will just hurt us all in the end.

If we hurt them, we'll break the flow of the trickle down.


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:04 PM

71. Shoot them

Shoot them all.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:25 PM

77. No.

We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget.

Expect us.

∀∞☮ccupy

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:06 PM

82. Sarcasm . . . how'd we get through life without it? k-r'd nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:18 PM

83. Yeah I can forgive and forget!

As soon as these robo banks forget about my debt of which they jacked up the interest rate to try and bankrupt me. NO F'ing way. To not prosecute these greed mongers is to say that there are two standards in our society. One for the bankers and elites and another much harsher one for everybody else.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:27 PM

84. You sure brought a tear to my eye!

 


I'm just an old softy for banksters .... and corporate tycoons, and vulture capitalists, snake oil salesmen and flim flam artists.

Funny post. Thanks.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:16 PM

88. LOL............MANNY



LOVE YA!!!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:51 PM

91. LOL. Pretty good, pretty good. K&R. nt

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