Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:26 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
Can't people on DU find forgiveness in their hearts?Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:34 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
I'm continually amazed by the callousness I find on DU.
Our President wants to put the robo-signing mess behind us. Why is that so controversial? Have we become so hardened that we cannot find a little forgiveness in our hearts? Sure, these good folks committed perjury that wrecked many thousands of lives - but not once did they commit perjury about their own personal sex lives. And they sure as hell didn't smoke pot. Given these facts, I believe that they are not a danger to society. And I hope that you'll join me in cheering the end of the private Hells that these bankers have been living in. Tomorrow is a new day. Let's forgive and forget.
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94 replies, 8499 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | OP | |
| FreakinDJ | Jan 2012 | #1 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #2 | |
| think | Jan 2012 | #6 | |
| russspeakeasy | Jan 2012 | #78 | |
| Zorra | Jan 2012 | #93 | |
| Earth_First | Jan 2012 | #3 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #4 | |
| riderinthestorm | Jan 2012 | #9 | |
| truedelphi | Jan 2012 | #72 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #10 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #13 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #14 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #17 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #21 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #26 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #27 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #28 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #30 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #34 | |
| progressoid | Jan 2012 | #69 | |
| ProSense | Jan 2012 | #75 | |
| Luminous Animal | Jan 2012 | #5 | |
| Lionessa | Jan 2012 | #7 | |
| DeathToTheOil | Jan 2012 | #11 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #12 | |
| DeathToTheOil | Jan 2012 | #18 | |
| Nuclear Unicorn | Jan 2012 | #61 | |
| backscatter712 | Jan 2012 | #8 | |
| provis99 | Jan 2012 | #81 | |
| gateley | Jan 2012 | #85 | |
| AnotherMcIntosh | Jan 2012 | #15 | |
| Vanje | Jan 2012 | #16 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #19 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #25 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #29 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #31 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #32 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #33 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #35 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #36 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #37 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #38 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #39 | |
| Matariki | Jan 2012 | #62 | |
| tpsbmam | Jan 2012 | #87 | |
| Chan790 | Jan 2012 | #45 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #46 | |
| LooseWilly | Jan 2012 | #48 | |
| joshcryer | Jan 2012 | #50 | |
| Bluenorthwest | Jan 2012 | #53 | |
| MFrohike | Jan 2012 | #80 | |
| L0oniX | Jan 2012 | #66 | |
| L0oniX | Jan 2012 | #67 | |
| truedelphi | Jan 2012 | #73 | |
| Tierra_y_Libertad | Jan 2012 | #20 | |
| MannyGoldstein | Jan 2012 | #22 | |
| truedelphi | Jan 2012 | #74 | |
| nadinbrzezinski | Jan 2012 | #23 | |
| bhikkhu | Jan 2012 | #24 | |
| TheKentuckian | Jan 2012 | #40 | |
| eomer | Jan 2012 | #49 | |
| rucky | Jan 2012 | #51 | |
| unapatriciated | Jan 2012 | #55 | |
| L0oniX | Jan 2012 | #65 | |
| _ed_ | Jan 2012 | #63 | |
| bhikkhu | Jan 2012 | #90 | |
| truedelphi | Jan 2012 | #76 | |
| russspeakeasy | Jan 2012 | #79 | |
| bhikkhu | Jan 2012 | #89 | |
| russspeakeasy | Jan 2012 | #94 | |
| EFerrari | Jan 2012 | #41 | |
| gateley | Jan 2012 | #86 | |
| EFerrari | Jan 2012 | #92 | |
| NuttyFluffers | Jan 2012 | #42 | |
| kickysnana | Jan 2012 | #43 | |
| TheKentuckian | Jan 2012 | #44 | |
| lonestarnot | Jan 2012 | #47 | |
| xchrom | Jan 2012 | #52 | |
| Autumn | Jan 2012 | #54 | |
| Brickbat | Jan 2012 | #56 | |
| zipplewrath | Jan 2012 | #57 | |
| guitar man | Jan 2012 | #58 | |
| Swede | Jan 2012 | #59 | |
| PA Democrat | Jan 2012 | #60 | |
| L0oniX | Jan 2012 | #64 | |
| Kablooie | Jan 2012 | #68 | |
| progressoid | Jan 2012 | #70 | |
| The Wizard | Jan 2012 | #71 | |
| Zorra | Jan 2012 | #77 | |
| mistertrickster | Jan 2012 | #82 | |
| jimlup | Jan 2012 | #83 | |
| Better Believe It | Jan 2012 | #84 | |
| Skittles | Jan 2012 | #88 | |
| Honeycombe8 | Jan 2012 | #91 |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:28 AM
FreakinDJ (13,058 posts)
1. Talk to some Homeless Folks about it
Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #1)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:31 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
2. No, they are nasty people.
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The other day I tried to collect money from the homeless for a charity to help the bankers - did you know that some bankers only have three homes? In any case, the homeless people wouldn't contribute. One actually yelled bad words at me.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
think (2,257 posts)
6. i'm feeling all warm and fuzzy. what is that? please make it stop...
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:38 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:33 PM
russspeakeasy (5,731 posts)
78. That was me, Manny. I wasn't yelling bad words. I was trying to breathe.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:38 PM
Zorra (18,800 posts)
93. So that was
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you that I was screaming at?!?!?
The filthy hydrofracking mofo fascist zombie cabin boy? You got away, huh? That's too bad. (BTW, I'm not homeless, I'm an Occupier, and no, I don't have Tourette's) |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:33 AM
Earth_First (11,592 posts)
3. Yeah, sure...
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Let's just have full out amnesty day, right after I get done robbing a bank, then we'll talk...
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
4. What
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Our President wants to put the robo-signing mess behind us. Why is that so controversial? Have we become so hardened that we cannot find a little forgiveness in our hearts?
<...> Tomorrow is a new day. Let's forgive and forget. ...if this turns out like the Social Security announcement in the last SOTU? What if we're surprised? Remember the CFPB: The CFPB had already rolled out a public education campaign, “Know Before You Owe,” to improve financial literacy on the consumer side as well before Cordray officially took office last week. But Obama’s recess appointment unleashed the watchdog’s full enforcement authority. Over the past few days, the CFPB also launched its first known investigation into a financial firm, probing kickbacks that were allegedly paid to PHH Corp., a private mortgage lender.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002163578 |
Response to ProSense (Reply #4)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:40 AM
riderinthestorm (13,166 posts)
9. Bookmarking this for tomorrow. Really interested in your response to Obama's announcement then. nt
Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #9)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:09 PM
truedelphi (25,944 posts)
72. I couldn't understand the response, but then
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There's a lot I don't know.
Like I never thought I'd see the day when Manny Goldstein had so much forgiveness in his heart! |
Response to ProSense (Reply #4)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:40 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
10. Rep. Conyers: Obama Demanded Social Security Cuts--Not GOP
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Rep. Conyers: Obama Demanded Social Security Cuts--Not GOP
Of course, and as you know, last year's SOTU was where Obama debuted his cute "cut vs. slash" nonsense: Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security? |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:43 AM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
13. Wait
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you're still waiting for the cuts?
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Response to ProSense (Reply #13)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:45 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
14. You think that attempts to slash Social Security are funny?
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:46 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) I think that you're better than that.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #14)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:47 AM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
17. I
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think invoking speculation in response to the fact that no cuts were announced in the SOTU or the fact that no cuts materialized is funny.
I'm laughing. |
Response to ProSense (Reply #17)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:53 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
21. How could he possibly announce cuts at the SOTU? He simply called for them
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using his "cut vs. slash" word games that the press finally caught up with:
Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security? And he lied about Social Security needing to be "strengthened", another cute game by Obama, Pete Peterson, and that crowd. At least he didn't yet again repeat the lie that FDR didn't start Social Security for retirees. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #21)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:59 AM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
26. Hmmm?
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And he lied about Social Security needing to be "strengthened", another cute game by Obama, Pete Peterson, and that crowd. At least he didn't yet again repeat the lie that FDR didn't start Social Security for retirees.
Familiar with this: Strengthen Social Security Campaign http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/media/blog/2011/sanders%E2%80%99-bill-s-1558-guarantees-social-security-for-75-years |
Response to ProSense (Reply #26)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:01 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
27. An unfortunate choice of words
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Given that "strengthen" is often used by Obama, Simpson, and that crowd as a code word for slashing benefits.
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Response to ProSense (Reply #28)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:04 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
30. I love it when you pull out the laughing guy
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It's your little way of saying that you've been checkmated.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #30)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:17 AM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
34. .
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"An unfortunate choice of words"
Still, keep me posted on the past speculation and if you come across any cuts. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #30)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:10 PM
progressoid (27,310 posts)
69. Well,
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It's better than a link to a Ron Paul post.
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Response to progressoid (Reply #69)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:16 PM
ProSense (98,178 posts)
75. Here's
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"Well, It's better than a link to a Ron Paul post."
...a another "better" link: Political Push Moves a Deal on Mortgages Inches Closer http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002211735 Looks like this analogy (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002210784#post4) is accurate. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
Luminous Animal (17,307 posts)
5. Thanks Manny for putting this in perspective.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
Lionessa (3,894 posts)
7. Short, sweet, and almost Onion worthy.
Response to Lionessa (Reply #7)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:41 AM
DeathToTheOil (1,124 posts)
11. Definitely shalot-worthy
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Or however you spell those things.
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Response to DeathToTheOil (Reply #11)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:42 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
12. I like shallots.
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Thank you. I think.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:49 AM
DeathToTheOil (1,124 posts)
18. I commend you
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For not using the
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Response to DeathToTheOil (Reply #11)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:11 AM
Nuclear Unicorn (6,938 posts)
61. Allow me to bestow the honors
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
backscatter712 (19,824 posts)
8. The sarcasm's pretty subtle on this one... n/t
Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:49 PM
provis99 (13,062 posts)
81. Manny's sarcasm is always subtle.
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sometimes, there are lunkheads on DU who don't get sarcasm unless it has the big irritating sarcasm smilie all over it.
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Response to provis99 (Reply #81)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:45 PM
gateley (61,901 posts)
85. In a post like this from Manny, how could anyone not get the sarcasm? Consider the source.
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I vehemently disagree with Manny and sometimes I want to wring his neck, but I like him. He's persistent and believes what he's saying. Over and over. Never gives up. He makes me smile -- I can't help it. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:45 AM
AnotherMcIntosh (7,540 posts)
15. Maybe it is good to practice sarcasm now. After the nomination, we may be limited to using it.
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Let's see, where did I put my Voltaire?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:46 AM
Vanje (8,923 posts)
16. Kay an Arrrgh! nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:49 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
19. I'm not sure that the progressive thing would be to penalize the 100s of thousands...
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...of employees involved in the robosigning debacle just for following orders.
Though we shouldn't give the banks blanket immunity, we should make exceptions for the bosses who ordered the peons to do it, and places where it was systematic and where you can show evidence that the individuals involved knew it was wrong. So, while your derisive sarcasm seems at least somewhat amusing, in reality it reflects a truly non-progressive value system, where hundreds of thousands of people are fined, penalized, or even criminalized for following orders, in many cases, probably ignorantly. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:57 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
25. And just what did I propose?
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Please be specific.
Thanks. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #25)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:03 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
29. Nothing at all, as is par for the course.
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It was just pointless derision, imo, and I was trying to interject a bit of substance into the derisive sarcastic commentary, since it's doubtful anyone else will.
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Response to joshcryer (Reply #29)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:05 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
31. But didn't you accuse me of projecting a "truly non-progressive value system"?
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Did I propose said value system via telepathy?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #31)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:08 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
32. Nope.
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I said your derisive sarcasm "reflects a truly non-progressive value system." You may, in fact, not actually believe the sarcastic undertones which manifest themselves in your post. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "find forgiveness in their hearts"?
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Response to joshcryer (Reply #32)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:12 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
33. I was being sarcastic.
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For the record, here's what I believe:
1. Any attorney who robosigned, or ordered robosigning, should go to jail. They knowingly committed perjury. 2. The "Nuremberg rules" should be applied to anyone further down the food chain who robosigned: following orders should not mitigate conviction, but it can mitigate punishment. 3. Any company in which robosigning occurred should be fined. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:17 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
35. So, you do hold the non-progressive values I ascribed to you.
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Now that that's out of the way, you think we should fine and / or prosecute tens if not hundreds of thousands of people.
And people wonder why such inanities are taken seriously. Full disclosure here, I am 100% against blanket immunity, as I believe higher tier individuals do not deserve immunity. But the low level mom and pop brokers most certainly deserve immunity, as they likely acted ignorantly if not coerced in a time when jobs were at risk. I don't buy the "Nuremberg rules" here because I partook in mortgage law in the past, it is some of the most convoluted stuff out there. I think people were just incapable of following the rules properly and ultimately pressured to do them. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:20 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
36. They signed pretty straightforward affidavits, no?
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What am I missing here?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #36)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:31 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
37. Under the auspices of MERS-enabled proxy. The electronic nature of MERS...
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...meant that many of the employees who signed these things were doing so ignorantly of the laws in states (which require the foreclosing agency to actually hold title, which MERS most certainly did not do). Other states, however, it's perfectly legal.
We need to grant immunity to all the peons, and then fix the system by going after the higher ups who intentionally exploited these loopholes. Meanwhile we need to standardize the mortgage system so that this sort of thing isn't possible in the future. Like the Uniform Commercial Code which covers pretty much all commercial business practices in a huge chunk of states. We need a Uniform Real Estate Code. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:35 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
38. I thought they attested to false information
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Is this not the case?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #38)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:42 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
39. They're handling it state by state. The GOPers tried to legalize MERS' actions across the board...
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...by making it so that all electronically filed mortgages handled by MERS were legitimate across interstate borders.
Obama denied them that, fortunately. MERS is maintaining that what they did was legal, and playing the game of "it's the banks' fault." Well, yeah, it is, they should know better. But the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of peons who played along probably didn't. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #35)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:01 AM
Matariki (15,016 posts)
62. It's "non-progressive" to want criminals in the banking industry punished for their crimes?
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That's a new one.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:52 PM
tpsbmam (3,883 posts)
87. You'd let the mucky-mucks go free, Manny?
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Not me! The executives who ordered the robosigning, approved it or condoned it within those companies would be at the top of my prosecution list! Though I'm with you -- the people who are doing the robosigning knew they were doing a bad thing when they did it, yet they went for the easy buck and went along, knowingly being a part of the illegal and evil system. That's based on the things that robosigners have said after-the-fact.
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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:37 AM
Chan790 (13,718 posts)
45. As a former banker...
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:41 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) we were told daily and unapologetically that we alone were legally and morally responsible for our conduct, even if following a direct order and that if we had any concern or qualms about an order to call "Compliance" at XXX-XXX-xxxx. Failing to do so, we were accepting civil and criminal responsibility for our actions. Note that "Compliance" is transparent to regulators.
Note that I am no longer a banker. I'm also fully in support of "(penalizing) the 100s of thousands of employees involved in the robosigning debacle just for following orders." Nobody reaches those levels in the bank or is allowed to do that job without the licenses, training and certifications to know what they should and should not be doing or signing. I was only following orders has never been an acceptable defense in anything. |
Response to Chan790 (Reply #45)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:23 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
46. It is highly unconventional to expect peons to know other states' laws.
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:25 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) They have a defense on that alone. Each state has its own individual laws. MERS made it so that those peons were signing stuff that was legal in one state while illegal in another. It's likely that some people signed off on some things that were both illegal and legal in a single days time. It is highly wrong to blame those people for something that the bankers and their lawyers knew ahead of time was wrong. You spend 8 hours a day robosigning foreclosure notices, a chunk of them are legal, another chunk is illegal, and you're incapable of knowing which because you need to know the laws in all 50 states. No mortgage broker or proxy would know all of those laws. Each one has a credible defense against such things.
It is not progressive to go after those people after having been caught in a banker trap of illegalities. This is not a defense at the banker level as I have already expressed that they don't deserve those exceptions (they should have known better). Let's just hope that while you were a banker you never used MERS because it's damn likely that at some point in time you were using it against the laws of a given state, and extradition can happen. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #46)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:09 AM
LooseWilly (4,426 posts)
48. You are ignoring the assertion that those you call "peons" needed certifications for the job...
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"Nobody reaches those levels in the bank or is allowed to do that job without the licenses, training and certifications to know what they should and should not be doing or signing. "
That doesn't sound like any of the definitions of "peon", either literal or metaphorical, that I've ever heard. If the robosigners were all required to be licensed, trained & certified... then there is a legal expectation that they know what the fuck they're doing. If they decide, under duress or just for the sake of convenience, to circumvent the legal (not to mention ethical) expectations of their training and certification... then they ought to be held responsible. If they ARE held responsible... then no trained & certified professionals will be inclined to side-step all of the ethical considerations of their training and certification process. If NOT, then they, like the Wall St. types, will be inclined to ignore ethical constraints that are "just for show" and paperwork. It's kind of the same thing as the holding responsible of those who ordered torture... those who performed it (like those who enforced the evictions robo-signed) can be considered "peon"s in the sense that they're enforcing the rules in the "fields"/streets... but those who signed into effect those orders have to take responsibility, as certified competent signers-into-effect, for what they signed. Let the banks train monkeys or guinea pigs to sign the signing statements if they're worried about what a signer might say under duress from the DOJ ("Row. Row. Row."), or if they want to be able to claim that no one is ultimately responsible for statements being signed... |
Response to LooseWilly (Reply #48)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:30 AM
joshcryer (39,749 posts)
50. That's now how it works, you're licensed in the state you work in.
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States don't require you to know every other states laws to be able to be licensed in said state. There is absolutely no legal expectation that they know what they're doing in other states.
This is not clear cut like torture, states real estate law differs from state to state, there's no general idea of what real estate law means, particularly when it regards paperwork signed by proxy. Some states allow it, other states require deeds to be on record, etc. MERS has won several lawsuits in states where their behavior is allowed, and every robosigner responsible for it has got off scott free (and arguably did nothing illegal in that state). You're advocating allowing some states with laws against some behavior, trump those states with laws for some behavior, which itself is highly non-progressive. At the bare minimum the people in charge are responsible for knowing whether or not a given state allows said behavior, and if those people in charge tell the peons to behave a certain way that goes against a state law, those people in charge need to be charged with crimes, not those who followed what they believe were normal. Again, this is not like torture, torture has clearly defined lines. This is about workers doing something illegal in one state that is legal in another. You cannot expect me to believe those workers are "responsible" when their bosses likely knew the end results and compelled the workers to behave that way. It's bullshit, non-progressive, and puts the onus on the workers and not the managers with regards to legality. That's just totally wrong. These people did nothing inherently wrong except do what they were told so they could keep their jobs! |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #50)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:58 AM
Bluenorthwest (24,151 posts)
53. See, once you use the word 'peons' to frame financial industry people
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it is too late to start speaking of definitions. Words MEAN things. Peon fits the folks who are now without homes or owing huge amounts.
Peon: person held in compulsory servitude to a master for the working out of an indebtedness http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peon An extremely editorial and incorrect choice of word. Ironic actually. Peon: : a member of the landless laboring class. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #50)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:40 PM
MFrohike (494 posts)
80. Bullshit
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No state allows for the filing of false or forged documents in court. Try again.
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Response to Chan790 (Reply #45)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:39 AM
L0oniX (17,334 posts)
66. Agree ...it's like working for Al Capone as a book keeper and saying "I never killed anyone or ... "
Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:43 AM
L0oniX (17,334 posts)
67. So if you work for Al Capone as a book keeper you are not guilty of murder. Ok.
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:44 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) If you drive the get away car you are not guilty of what ever the others did. "I was just driving a car" ...and since when is ignorance an acceptable excuse in a court of law? I suppose all the US bomb makers are also not guilty of killing the innocent.
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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:12 PM
truedelphi (25,944 posts)
73. The point is, if this nation did not rank 27th in terms of Social Justice,
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It would be the Big Shots That Went Down.
Not the person making $ 500 a week, the people who hired that person. Yet another reason to vote Democratic - who in the world would want us to be number 30th in terms of Social Justice? |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:52 AM
Tierra_y_Libertad (36,266 posts)
20. The banksters are willing to generously forgive the people they ripped off and hold no grudges.
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And, they will, with sadness, give up the jail time they so richly deserved.
Then they'll laugh their asses off. |
Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #20)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM
MannyGoldstein (21,443 posts)
22. I know that you're mocking me
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But remember: some bankers will laugh so hard that they'll piss themselves. This will further add to their discomfort and humiliation.
This is reality, not a game. Real bankers are really hurting. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #22)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:14 PM
truedelphi (25,944 posts)
74. Maybe we aren't mocking you.
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I truly am amazed at the forgiveness angle.
But enjoying it all none the less. Did it come to you through Course of Miracles? If so, I'll gladly start going to that course. i just want the anger inside me to end. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM
nadinbrzezinski (120,297 posts)
23. Oh poor dears
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:55 AM
bhikkhu (7,639 posts)
24. A 25 billion dollar penalty isn't forgiveness...
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I think its a rather good fit to the technical issues and carelessness of the robo-signing issue, and it should go to very good use.
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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:48 AM
TheKentuckian (17,391 posts)
40. Would it be a "good fit" I stole a couple grand of your money and got off clean for $20?
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:36 AM
eomer (3,167 posts)
49. Who's going to pay that $25 billion?
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Fining the corporations will allow the individual banksters to avoid punishment. Instead of coming out of their scandalous bonuses, the fines will one way or another be passed on to us. We just fined ourselves $25 billion. Yay!
These guys need to be prosecuted personally and have civil suits against them personally to wrest away their ill gotten gains. |
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:34 AM
rucky (34,998 posts)
51. A 25 billion dollar penalty...
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is the "cost of doing business"
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Response to rucky (Reply #51)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:43 AM
unapatriciated (4,863 posts)
55. yep.
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They factor in the cost if they should get caught breaking the law. It's always a win for them.
Insurance Companies have been doing this for decades. This shows intent and it is time we actually prosecuted them since 'corporations are people too'. |
Response to rucky (Reply #51)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:35 AM
L0oniX (17,334 posts)
65. Chump change for them.
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:28 AM
_ed_ (1,734 posts)
63. 25 Billion compared to 7 Trillion from QE
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Not to even mention TARP.
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Response to _ed_ (Reply #63)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:47 PM
bhikkhu (7,639 posts)
90. ...all of which was short-term loans in relatively small amounts
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and all of which was paid back, if we are talking about the banking sector.
25 billion compares well if you look at the actual values of the banks themselves - http://www.relbanks.com/top-us-banks/market-cap . You could get close to a controlling share of Goldman for that. |
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:19 PM
truedelphi (25,944 posts)
76. I keep wondering how Martha Stewart feels about all this.
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Remember how in reading her jail time sentence to her, her judge said that there had to be consequences for dishonest behavior regarding the stock market?
That judge made it sound like Martha had brought down the American economy. Now w we have Bankers who DID bring down the American economy, and they will never see the inside of a jail cell. At least not as long as Corporate-enabling politicians are addicted to campaign monies. |
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #24)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:39 PM
russspeakeasy (5,731 posts)
79. Make it a trillion, then we'll talk.
Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #79)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:44 PM
bhikkhu (7,639 posts)
89. For 1 trillion, you could buy the top 30 banks in the US
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with plenty left over. http://www.relbanks.com/top-us-banks/market-cap
The largest bank. for instance, is worth $161 billion. Goldman Sachs is at $53 billion - that's the total value of their shares on the stock market. I wonder if some of the problem people have with this is how quickly the sense of scale is lost when getting up into numbers that high, or whether the banks are mixed in with investment firms and hedge funds in people's understanding. They are quite separate, and the values given at the link are the actual market values of the complete companies. |
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #89)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:14 PM
russspeakeasy (5,731 posts)
94. $25 billion is a drop in their "stole from" bucket.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:53 AM
EFerrari (163,986 posts)
41. So that whole penitence before forgiveness thing I learned in Catholic school has been superceded?
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Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:54 AM USA/ET - Edit history (2) These kids today.
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Response to gateley (Reply #86)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:58 PM
EFerrari (163,986 posts)
92. Penitence means being sorry. Penance is the ritual prayers people do
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to expiate sin.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:00 AM
NuttyFluffers (6,464 posts)
42. indeed, to forgive is divine.
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*tee hee hee*
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:04 AM
kickysnana (3,172 posts)
43. Sorry,no forgiveness for corporations, cartels and crimminals at least until they are convicted and
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their sentence is done and they have truly repented ruining peoples lives for greed and promise not to do it again.
I am a bleeding heart liberal, not bleeding heart stupid. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:25 AM
TheKentuckian (17,391 posts)
44. If one of "the small people" steal $500 the call is for jail time, felon status, and
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thousands in fines but if a rich man steals many billions or even trillions the idea is at most a fine that is a tiny percentage of the take.
There would be mobs marching in the streets with pitches and pitchforks if the average guy that stole a TV from Walmart was settling out for say a hundred bucks. Folks were getting the vapors at the mention of withholding bonuses for the fatcats and even supposed progressives would hit the fainting couches if any talk of clawbacks came up. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:45 AM
lonestarnot (71,133 posts)
47. What a steaming pile of fuckrot! Forgive? Forget? Soon as they are held accountable.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:44 AM
xchrom (90,524 posts)
52. du rec. nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:16 AM
Autumn (11,297 posts)
54. I can forgive, but I don't chose to forget.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:46 AM
Brickbat (14,397 posts)
56. Delicious as always, Manny. K&R.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:51 AM
zipplewrath (8,908 posts)
57. Look forward not backward
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Sounds like you get it. Shouldn't we be looking forward, not backward? Well, unless your backward is to a $300K mortgage that you owe on a $150K house. THAT is forever.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:54 AM
guitar man (15,996 posts)
58. Haha!
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You can sure tell who just reads the subject line as opposed to the whole post
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:02 AM
Swede (27,081 posts)
59. Here ya go.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:10 AM
PA Democrat (10,988 posts)
60. I'm sending those CEOs Valentines!
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Except former Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne. He smokes pot. No Valentine for him!
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:33 AM
L0oniX (17,334 posts)
64. Hopeychangeaforgivalicous.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:02 PM
Kablooie (8,855 posts)
68. OK, I forgive him. And I'll forgive him once more when it happens all over again.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:18 PM
progressoid (27,310 posts)
70. I agree.
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Also, penalizing these job creators just out of spite will just hurt us all in the end.
If we hurt them, we'll break the flow of the trickle down. ![]() |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:04 PM
The Wizard (7,015 posts)
71. Shoot them
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Shoot them all.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:25 PM
Zorra (18,800 posts)
77. No.
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We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget.
Expect us. ∀∞☮ccupy |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
mistertrickster (7,062 posts)
82. Sarcasm . . . how'd we get through life without it? k-r'd nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:18 PM
jimlup (4,057 posts)
83. Yeah I can forgive and forget!
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As soon as these robo banks forget about my debt of which they jacked up the interest rate to try and bankrupt me. NO F'ing way. To not prosecute these greed mongers is to say that there are two standards in our society. One for the bankers and elites and another much harsher one for everybody else.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:27 PM
Better Believe It (18,630 posts)
84. You sure brought a tear to my eye!
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I'm just an old softy for banksters .... and corporate tycoons, and vulture capitalists, snake oil salesmen and flim flam artists. Funny post. Thanks. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:16 PM
Skittles (86,313 posts)
88. LOL............MANNY
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LOVE YA!!! |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:51 PM
Honeycombe8 (18,006 posts)



