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Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:02 PM

White House, Senate unveil final, even stupider 'fiscal cliff' deal. Vote expected tonight.

White House, Senate unveil final, even stupider 'fiscal cliff' deal. Vote expected tonight.

by Hunter

In a last homage to epic legislative incompetence to close out this year, the White House and the Senate have apparently agreed to give hostage taking Republicans still more of what they wanted in order to close a deal that puts off the current fiscal cliff for … two mere months:

Senate Republicans said negotiators also agreed to put off $110 billion in across-the-board cuts to military and domestic programs for two months while broader deficit reduction talks continue. Those cuts begin to go into force on Wednesday Jan. 2, and that deadline too might be missed before Congress approves the deal.

The new deadline lines up, not coincidentally, with the deadline for once again raising the debt ceiling. That fight is expected to be even more bitter than this one, with Republicans expecting they will be in a much better position for another round of hostage-taking. Democrats also have apparently agreed to new concessions on indexing the estate tax (apparently even dead rich people need catering to, now, if we're to continue basic government functions.)

The Senate is expected to vote tonight. As for what the House will do tomorrow, it's anyone's guess. We shall see if these latest two concessions—the most important one being a promise to revisit this entire incompetent, buffoonish fiasco in a mere 60 days, but with the looming threat of tax increases removed from over Republican heads—are enough to convince the House to pass the current deal in spite of their current hurt fee-fees.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/31/1175249/-White-House-Senate-unveil-final-even-stupider-fiscal-cliff-deal-Vote-expected-tonight


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Reply White House, Senate unveil final, even stupider 'fiscal cliff' deal. Vote expected tonight. (Original post)
ProSense Dec 2012 OP
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #1
woo me with science Dec 2012 #16
DearHeart Jan 2013 #36
kentuck Dec 2012 #2
ProSense Dec 2012 #3
kentuck Dec 2012 #7
ProSense Dec 2012 #11
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #14
WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #10
Blaukraut Dec 2012 #4
ProSense Dec 2012 #5
kentuck Dec 2012 #8
Lasher Dec 2012 #21
woo me with science Dec 2012 #18
99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #6
W_HAMILTON Dec 2012 #9
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #15
Angry Dragon Dec 2012 #26
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #28
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #29
pscot Jan 2013 #34
In Truth We Trust Dec 2012 #20
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2013 #37
W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #38
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #12
bongbong Dec 2012 #13
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #17
Aerows Dec 2012 #19
Pryderi Dec 2012 #22
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #23
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #24
Thinkingabout Dec 2012 #25
DJ13 Dec 2012 #27
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #30
W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #31
alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #33
RomneyLies Jan 2013 #32
Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #35

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:06 PM

1. Theater of the abusrd. Do they know how absolutely incompetent they look?

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:34 PM

16. They are not incompetent in the least.

The one percent wins again, as bipartisanly orchestrated.

And more hosing to be scheduled, not far down the road.


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Response to woo me with science (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:29 AM

36. Got that right! Was watching C-Span and saw all the handshaking and backslapping

going on between both parties. Knew something was up. Sickening.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:06 PM

2. I would think the Repubs would be stronger around the time the debt ceiling debate arrives?

And the President and the Democrats will be weaker.

It does not look like a smart move, on first impression.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:08 PM

3. What's even more stupid is that

it's now on Democrats to pass it, especially in the House.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:11 PM

7. Yep.

I'm surprised ProSense. I thought you would be supportive of this??

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:17 PM

11. It's not hard to see.

Everyone understood the dynamics of the health care debate.

Few understood the dynamics of the 2011 deal, which is what, along with the election, gave the President a lot of leverage. Oh, the election was a big part, but the sequestration and the tax cuts expiring enhanced that leverage.

The fact that Republicans are coming out of this deal with another hostage is beyond bizarre. And remember, the President loses leverage on tax increases.

The other way around. He would have room to give. His hand would be strengthened.



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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:29 PM

14. Yes, I am surprised as well. Prosense IMHO is usually more forgiving

of such things administration wise. It is almost as if PS is of two minds on this.

I guess we can all change when we see the light.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:16 PM

10. Debt ceiling + military cuts + cuts to social programs...

in 60 freakin' days.

Yeah, that'll end well.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:09 PM

4. 110 Billion in cuts for a measly 2 month reprieve from hostage taking?

Are they alright? It's hard to believe that Democrats and the President are really that stupid. There's something else at work here. And finally: Et tu, Biden?

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:10 PM

5. No kidding.

It makes no friggin sense.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:12 PM

8. My hunch is that they have made a deal not to challenge the debt ceiling vote when it comes up?

Just a hunch.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:39 PM

21. Who could they have made that deal with?

Boner? He can't deliver the votes. Senator Yertle? Surely you don't think he could be trusted to keep such a promise.

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:37 PM

18. "There's something else at work here."

Indeed. It's well past time to be honest about that.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:10 PM

6. Congress appears to have inadvertently "won the war on terror"

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:16 PM

9. Lemme guess...

The Senate votes tonight, there is no threatened filibuster, so it passes with 50 or so votes, all coming from Democratic-caucusing Senators. No Republican Senators vote for it, therefore they can claim they never voted to raise taxes; in the House, where Republicans votes are actually needed for it to pass, they won't vote on it tonight, and instead will vote on it in the coming days, when we've already gone off "the fiscal cliff" and they can claim they are voting for tax cuts.

I'm sure in exchange for caving on taxes and allowing Republicans to save face, Republicans will be much more amiable in two months when we are debating spending cuts and the debt ceiling

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:33 PM

15. I have not kept a running tally on this, but how many times

have the Repigs stuck a shim into the back of the Democrats?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:57 PM

26. the thing is that Obama gives them the shim

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:11 PM

28. That's crazy talk, gangnam style!

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:24 AM

29. I have no idea what your post says

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:12 AM

34. Right. Everyone knows it's shiv

A shim is something you use to squarel a door jamb.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:39 PM

20. You are absolutely spot on with your prediction. Their gamesmanship and collusion is transparent and

contemptable.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:32 AM

37. The vote was 89-8

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:38 PM

38. Yeah, and it came after we had already gone off "the fiscal cliff"

My post was made Monday night, when the vote would have been to raise taxes.

The Senate put off the vote till early Tuesday, when we had already gone off "the fiscal cliff" and therefore the vote was to lower taxes that had automatically been raised at the stroke of midnight.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:17 PM

12. Finally, the Republicans will know they can trust us

And they'll start being nice to us.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:27 PM

13. The deficit is only a problem

 

when a Democrat is in power (according to the MSM & its accepted "wisdom")

Thus, if another Dem follows Obama (or he gets a third term - oh wait I'm not supposed to mention our secret plans), and current budgetary/deal-making trends continue, by 2030 or so only military spending will get any funding.

What a bright future for us. USA! USA! USA!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:34 PM

17. And Boehner will never let it come to the floor of the House

 

and the GOP shall take all blame.

And all shall rejoice.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:37 PM

19. Dumbest political maneuver yet

by the Democrats.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:39 PM

22. Stop it from passing. Better we go over the cliff.

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Response to Pryderi (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:44 PM

23. No, it's not better we "go over the cliff"

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:45 PM

24. Republicans lost BIG time on this.

But with the nuts controlling half of Congress, any deal is going to be shitty -- and so not doing anything.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:55 PM

25. We might have given Boehner the light at the end of the tunnel he needs.

This might be a good result, Boehner knew he would never get anything passed with the TP but could with Democrats voting with him on a deal worked out in the Senate with Democrats and Republicans. The GOP has gotten themselves in a bind with the TP who thinks they are in charge. It is time to leave them in the dust and get on with governing.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:10 PM

27. This is like a pro wrestling match, with the outcome predetermined in the locker room

Swooping in at the very last second to make the world safe once again.

Until the next "match" anyway.

This is some seriously bad theater, the WH needs better writers and choreographers if they hope to make giving away too much a lot more convincing when they try to sell the chained CPI again in the near future.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:29 AM

30. Long on name-calling, short on analysis

As most of the opposition here, it seems mostly matter of gnashing teeth about the next fight. The provisions of this deal are pretty good. I don't think it hurts us for the next fight, and, quite frankly, I find some of the claims that we're now in for another fight in a few months a bit pusillanimous.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:43 AM

31. You are aware of these individuals that call themselves Republicans, right?

They essentially upped the vote threshold in the Senate from 51 votes to 60.

They turn previously bipartisan, ho-hum votes on issues such as the debt ceiling into contentious affairs where the other side must provide them with concessions if they want it to pass.

The lost the presidency, they lost ground in both the Senate and House and yet claim they didn't lose the election. More people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the presidential race, Senate races, and House races, yet they claim the American people stand with them.

Any of this ring a bell?

Christ, the Republicans even hate Boehner; you think they are going to play nice this next go-around? What on Earth have you seen in the recent past that would lead you to believe anything other than they are going to be bloodthirsty in two months when it's time to debate spending cuts / the debt ceiling limit?

The simple fact that Republicans won't agree on a deal to postpone sequestration for as long as the tax deal is in effect NOW and agree to raise the debt limit NOW, even after the Democrats have given way on tax issues, should give you an idea of what is in store in the next couple of months. If the Republicans won't concede on those two issues now, even after the Democrats have capitulated on tax increases, why would they do so in a couple of months? What will the Democrats have to offer them in exchange then?

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:47 AM

33. I don't think they're going to play nice at all

How you got that from any of my posts is a mystery to me.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:47 AM

32. Looks like all it takes is one Senator to put a hold on the deal

 

and it cannot come up for a vote in time.

My money is on Jim Demented.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 03:15 AM

35. Hopefully they torpedo this nonsense

 

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