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Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:21 PM

"a two month delay in sequestration...will be paid for in cut to both social spending and..."

<...>

6:07 PM PT: Although, it seems logistically implausible, CNN is reporting that they are expecting to have the vote tonight. Wolf Blitzer asked how it would be possible to get the printed version of the bill together in time, but Jessica Yellen says the staff has been working on it all along.

She also says Nancy Pelosi has signed off on it as well.

6:13 PM PT: From what I can surmise:

* The top income tax rate will 35% to 39.6% for individuals earning more than $400,000 or households earning above $450,000.

* The dividends and capital gains tax rate go up to 20%. the Estate Tax, increases from 35% to 40% on all assets above $5.12 million.

* A permanent fix to to the AMT patch..

It does not appear from rumor that an extension of the debt-ceiling is included


On the plus side earlier reports indicated that President Obama obtianed

A one-year extension of Medicare doc fix (worth about $30 billion)

A one-year extension of 73 week unemployment insurance.

A Stimulus Refundable Tax Credit I don't understand nor know details of.

An extension of the Wind Energy Production Tax Rebate and perhaps other sustainable energy funding.

I can not find out how long the delay, if any, of the sequestration cuts will be.


6:17 PM PT: Jessica Yellen (sp?) says that there is a two month delay in sequestration cuts that will be paid for in cut to both social spending and defense spending.

The Republicans won the real estate debate, and the index will be inflated.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/31/1175236/-A-Deal-has-been-reached-says-CNN-Biden-on-way-to-brief-Democratic-Senators-before-announcement

WTF? WTF?

35 replies, 2149 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply "a two month delay in sequestration...will be paid for in cut to both social spending and..." (Original post)
ProSense Dec 2012 OP
theaocp Dec 2012 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #2
amerikat Dec 2012 #3
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #4
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #5
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #6
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #14
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #19
Marr Dec 2012 #7
W_HAMILTON Dec 2012 #8
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #9
W_HAMILTON Dec 2012 #11
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #15
W_HAMILTON Dec 2012 #24
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #25
ProSense Dec 2012 #12
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #17
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #18
grasswire Dec 2012 #26
creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #28
DevonRex Dec 2012 #31
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #22
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #10
Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #13
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #16
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #27
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #29
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #30
Angry Dragon Dec 2012 #20
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #21
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #32
WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #34
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #35
chieftain Dec 2012 #23
Cali_Democrat Jan 2013 #33

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:25 PM

1. Occam's razor? n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:30 PM

2. Not sure what you are WTFing?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:33 PM

3. The deal was 250k.

For all the people that stood in line for hours on November 6th and didn't give in and didn't give up it's an insult.

Less balls than Thelma and Louise.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:36 PM

4. Looks pretty good

You're upset about which part?

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:43 PM

5. The fact that Obama is involved in something that "looks pretty good"

Shatters poor ProSense's worldview.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:46 PM

6. I don't understand what you mean

ProSense is a strong supporter of the Administration, and always has been.

I'm trying to suss out her disagreement with the actual provisions.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:04 PM

14. Is she?

Alright then; rescinded, I s'pose. Must have been thinking of someone else.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:09 PM

19. She's spent the better part of the last two years

rebutting every attack on the Administration, so,I'd say she's a good gauge here.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:47 PM

7. ...wut?

You're suggesting that Prosense is... an Obama-hater?

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:50 PM

8. Looks pretty good?

Are you kidding me?

We are caving on the tax issue in exchange for essentially no concessions in regards to spending cuts or the debt ceiling, meaning we will have these same sort of problems in a couple of months, except we won't have automatic tax hikes to use for leverage.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:53 PM

9. Taxes don't go up for the middle class

That's stimulative and necessary.

Oh, right, The GOP Congress would be "guaranteed" to do that anyway after the cliff. Right. Sure.

The notion that we have no leverage on spending now is also pure speculation.

I'm fine with fighting the GOP again in a couple of months on all the issues. It's not clear why so many progressives are afraid of taking a smaller victory here and fighting them again in a few months.

Looks pretty good.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:59 PM

11. The GOP would not hold up votes for the "middle class tax cuts" for long.

They'd have folded by the end of the month, probably when the new Congress is sworn in. There would be nothing to hide behind, no amount of talking points that could allow them to avoid the backlash it would cause if they were seen as obstructing a vote to lower taxes for all incomes up to $250k.

And we do have no leverage on spending. What leverage do you think we have? The only thing would be military cuts, but even the Democrats in charge don't really want to be accused of allowing the military to be cut. So, what leverage do we have? We had these huge tax increases, which they have now capitulated on and will now be left to debate the irrational Republicans in a couple of months (really, that's all you could get, a two month delay?!) with no tax leverage to hold their feet to the fire.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:05 PM

15. Yeah, that's what I keep hearing...all those birds in a bush

It's interesting to me that the main argument for why this deal is so bad relies on the reasonableness of the House Republicans!

We'll see what happens with spending. I doubt it's as bad as you think. It's just as true to say that the GOP has no leverage on spending, because the sequester is what it is. I'm not that worried about it.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:20 PM

24. The Republicans don't give a damn about the sequester.

They want spending cuts. They welcome the sequester. They just don't want the tax hike, and now, with this deal, they won't have to worry about the steep tax hikes that were in store. The Republicans aren't willing to go to war (no pun intended) over military spending cuts; for starters, even most Democrats won't speak of truly cutting the military. Secondly, if the military was to be affected by the sequester, the Republicans would cry bloody murder all over the airwaves and the Democrats would just eventually cave.

Once the tax issue is settled, we have no leverage.

The Republicans will claim that this tax deal is THEM compromising, so, in just two months time, what are you going to give them in terms of spending cuts to avert "the fiscal cliff" 2.0 and an increase in the debt ceiling?

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:22 PM

25. I suppose I'll have to congratulate you if that comes to pass

As of now, it's gloomy speculation as usual.

Enjoy your symptom.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:59 PM

12. This deal hands Republicans a bat.

The WH could have gotten all of these and more with fewer concessions, and the fact that the debt ceiling isn't included and sequestration will be kicked down the road two months is bizarre.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:07 PM

17. It would have been better to let it all expire. Agree?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:08 PM

18. I don't think it could have "gotten all of these and more with fewer concessions"

This is the scaled back deal to preserve middle class taxes at current levels. It worked.

The other deals come later. I doubt the Republicans are as loaded for bear on those as the pessimistic assessment suggest. The "badness" of the deal strikes me as speculation on what could happen or could have happened. The provisions themselves look pretty good.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:27 PM

26. Grover Norquist is very happy about this bat.

He was giddy at the thought of Dems having to come back time and time again.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:37 PM

28. Obama says he's going to

call the GOP's bluff on the debt ceiling. The GOP gets no concessions now or later. So there is no incentive for the GOP to give in on that now. We'll have to wait to see if the GOP has the nerve to actually take us into shut down.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:47 PM

31. Coupling the debt ceiling

with defense spending is actually the best move for us. I know I don't need to spell it out for you. In addition, there is a constitutional ace in the Fourteenth Amendment:

"'The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for the payments of pension and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion shall not be questioned."

President Obama knows constitutional law quite well. The debt ceiling would not survive a constitutional challenge.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:08 PM

22. That's why I suspect it's DOA in the House.

 

Norquist may have approved it, but the Club for Growth and the Heritage Foundation are scrambling to scuttle it in the House.

It's the exact same scenario as the last deal, so I think it's just as DOA.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:54 PM

10. What cuts to social spending?

That parts kind of important.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:02 PM

13. Gives them more time to work the peons and convince them that changed CPI is a good thing.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:06 PM

16. Cuts to social spending and military

They basically put off the sequester by two months by applying it more slowly. But I agree the details of those cuts are important. if the sequester were to kick in tomorrow, you'd see cuts to social spending there too, and drastic ones.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:31 PM

27. I read the part about military spending. I'm glad to see it.

The problem is we've a lot more waste in our military spending than in our social services, and I have a feeling it's going to be tit-for-tat on how much gets cut where. I have been wrong before, but it does make me nervous.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:37 PM

29. The sequester is tit for tat, the cliff is tit for tat

They're one to one on military and discretionary over the cliff.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:44 PM

30. Yes, but we don't have as much to spare in our social services.

Actually, we can't spare much of anything at this point. Which puts us in a difficult situation. All for such a short term extension? I'm not sure it's worth it.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:03 PM

20. I see the garbage truck has arrived

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:05 PM

21. I'd love to know what that actually means.

It sounds very clever.

Seriously. I don't get it.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:21 AM

32. In two months we will get the same theater

They sweat and toil and tell the American people how hard they fought and come out with nothing

The President and Biden negotiated to avoid the so called fiscal cliff than to fight for what was just.

We will see the same garbage in two months and they will come out with garbage

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:32 AM

34. Ah. I thought you were referring to ProSense specifically.

I was about to offer a spirited defense of ProSense, which likely would have humiliated us both. So thanks for the explanation.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:47 AM

35. I am sure ProSense would have liked that




Have a good new year

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:12 PM

23. Why in the OP quote did you leave out the reference to defense cuts? n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:25 AM

33. ...and military cuts

Not bad. As long as the Dems demand 1 dollar in revenue for every 1 dollar in spending cuts in the future, it's a good deal.

I support this.

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