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Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:05 PM

Breaking from CNBC : We're going over the cliff!

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:25 PM - Edit history (1)

CNBC ‏@CNBC
BREAKING: CNBC's @JohnJHarwood: No vote in the House tonight, sources say.

https://twitter.com/search?q=cnbc&src=typd



Update:John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood
Senate Dem aide: votes "still possible" tonight, but Ds/Rs digging in on sequester. Ds will hear Biden sales job only if entire deal done

35 replies, 2478 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Breaking from CNBC : We're going over the cliff! (Original post)
octoberlib Dec 2012 OP
Undismayed Dec 2012 #1
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #3
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #6
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #9
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #15
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #12
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #14
hfojvt Dec 2012 #29
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #10
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #18
pscot Dec 2012 #20
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #21
hfojvt Dec 2012 #30
Raksha Dec 2012 #34
Taverner Dec 2012 #23
putitinD Dec 2012 #2
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #4
Panasonic Dec 2012 #5
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #11
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #22
hfojvt Dec 2012 #31
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #7
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #8
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #13
randome Dec 2012 #16
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #17
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #28
hfojvt Dec 2012 #32
MNBrewer Jan 2013 #35
ananda Dec 2012 #19
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #24
octoberlib Dec 2012 #25
malz Dec 2012 #26
fadedrose Dec 2012 #27
AnnaLee Dec 2012 #33

Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:07 PM

1. Who wins and who loses here?

 

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Response to Undismayed (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:10 PM

3. NO one wins...

But, one thing's for sure, the Repugs have LOST! BIG! One small, soothing feeling to an otherwise maddening situation.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:28 PM

6. Soc. Sec. wins.

the reduced payroll tax will end, and go back up to 6.2%.
the tax is what feeds the Soc. Sec. fund.
By lowering the tax last year, it was a massively-destructive revenue cut that was intended to and did destabilize Social Security funding.

By law when the Social Security "trust fund" runs out of surplus,
all benefits must be ratably cut immediately to eliminate any shortfall.
The "cliff" date for this has been widely quoted as 2039.
This "tax cut" had accelerated this to as soon as 2019 or thereabouts, roughly 6 years from now.
The problem is that a huge percentage of the damage is already done, and ZIRP does even more as it lowers,
on a permanent basis, the coupon that is earned on long term Treasuries, which is what the "trust fund" holds and buys.

Even ceasing the Payroll Tax Cut now will not reverse the damage that has been inflicted, but it does stop it from accumulating.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:31 PM

9. The poor and unemployed lose big time.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:49 PM

15. The ppor and unemployed lost when they attached those issues to this

phony 'cliff' nonsense which is aside from anything else, totally undemocratic.

We have a Congress, it is THEIR job to represent the people. They have not been doing that. They have allowed a 'gang of eight' to make major decisions for all of Congress, that should never be made by such a small group of members.

NOW maybe the new Congress can address the unemployment issue separately from this disastrous game they have been playing.

And now maybe, they can focus on GROWTH rather than this, this failed, AUSTERITY they have been trying to push, which if it succeeded I can assure you would in no way have helped the poor and unemployed, See Europe for proof of that.

I am thrilled that the activism of the people is paying off and the exposure of this 'show' which is all it was in order to help the wealthy, has resulted in 'no deal'. This whole thing needs to be scrapped and Congress needs to get on with the work we election them to do. NOT EIGHT of them, ALL of them.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:38 PM

12. I agree totally on the payroll tax, dixiegrrrrl.

I realize they were looking for stimulus when they cut it, but I think it was the wrong place to get money from and now people expect those lower rates.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:43 PM

14. That tax cut was sop, and kept people from looking at where the real problem lies.

Notice that NO one in DC is talking at all about the banks that were given our money, to gamble with.
Or talking about the failure to charge fruadulent banks and hedge funds with RICO.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:44 PM

29. the American people win

unless a crappy deal is made next year.

Time to reframe the debate.

Create NEW tax cuts rather than trying to keep parts of the Bush tax cuts.

Hammer the Republicans for voting against tax cuts and keep showing the people who benefits from various tax cuts.

It COULD happen, although I doubt it will. Obama has sounded like he will come right back with 78% of the Bush tax cuts and call that a "middle class tax cut".

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Response to Undismayed (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:33 PM

10. Those on extended unemployment benefits lose

because that seems to be the one immediate effect. Maybe someone who knows the mechanics of payment can say how quickly the payments will stop, or how easy it would be to pass something on, say, Jan 2nd, before the cut happens in practice.

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Response to Undismayed (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:10 PM

18. Serious Deficit hawks win.

I'm not one of 'em but there's a part of me which likes saying "Deficit is the biggest fucking problem? Here's your solution."

It's not all bad. Now there's no longer a need for a "grand compromise". In January;
a) pass middle class tax relief
b) pass an unemployment extension

And we're good.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:15 PM

20. Getting the House to pass anything

will be a challenge.

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Response to pscot (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:23 PM

21. That's okay too.

They don't *have* to pass anything. If they like high taxes, it's their call.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:46 PM

30. I would say pas "working" class tax relief

every time politicians talk about the middle class, most of the benefits seem to go to the UPPER middle class.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:15 PM

34. Pretty simple, isn't it?

Re "In January;
a) pass middle class tax relief
b) pass an unemployment extension

And we're good."

Right. No more "fiscal cliff." A slope, maybe, but that can be handled step by step. And I'd just love to see the Republicans in the new Congress stonewall over the debt ceiling this time. All it would do is hasten their demise, and I am not gonna cry about THAT!

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Response to Undismayed (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:27 PM

23. Everyone loses

 

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:09 PM

2. pedal to the metal

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:10 PM

4. The House will never agree to anything.

I suspected maybe people were celebrating too soon.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:12 PM

5. Perhaps not, but the Republicans now own the fiscal cliff debacle.

 

And it will continue the decline of the Republican Party, probably exponentially.

Happy New Year, Blue_in_AK!

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:37 PM

11. And back at ya, Panasonic.

No, I'm not particularly sad about their stance (except for the unemployed) as I agree with you that it adds to their "foolworthy" status.

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:24 PM

22. And they have zero political capital to complain about the debt ceiling. n/t

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:52 PM

31. they might have

with the same coalition they had in the surrender of 2010.

That vote was

Democrats - 139-112
Republicans - 138-36
total - 277-148

If Obama had endorsed a deal, a number of Democrats would have gone along with it, and then only a few Republican votes are needed. Considering how good the deal was for the rich, I would expect to pick up a number of Republican votes.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:29 PM

7. Not good at all. Fuck the Republicans.

Fuck em to hell.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:30 PM

8. Boehner is a coward.

That's what this says to me.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:41 PM

13. I predict

The next Congress will retroactively extend the tax cuts for those making $250K and under and will cancel the budget cuts.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:55 PM

16. Of course they will.

But that won't help those who are depending on unemployment benefits or food stamps.

And it might fuck up the country's credit rating again.

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Response to randome (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:04 PM

17. Yup. Sucks when the unemployment benefits expire

The credit rating fuck up will be associated with the debt ceiling, not the "cliff".

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:31 PM

28. Exactly. The tax pain will be reversed.

So I'm game to see who wilts first.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:57 PM

32. sure, that is what WOULD happen

Democrats would find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 08:55 AM

35. Well, I was wrong

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:11 PM

19. Fasten your bungee cords and ..

.. scream bloody murder!

Whooppeee!

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:28 PM

24. A duel it is. TO THE PAIN!

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:30 PM

25. John Harwood just tweeted votes still possible tonight

but I can't see this dysfunctional House passing anything. Fuck them.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:30 PM

26. Good!

 

Let the GOP's bones shatter on the rocks!

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:31 PM

27. The debt ceiling...fix it now so we don't do this every 2 months. nt

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:03 PM

33. OK, so I guess, technically, we go over at midnight EST.

It will be 3 hours earlier here. If I go to sleep early will I feel myself fall? Will it be like a falling dream where you never really hit bottom and when you wake startled. do you discover it was just a dream?

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