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Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:17 PM

everybody making $450k/yr goes back to Clinton-era rates...

Unemployment extended for a year

Farm bill extended for a year.

Chained CPI off the table

Inheritence taxes going up.



Someone ... anyone in HairOnFireUnderground brigade... tell me why I should be upset about this deal?

Links to firedoglake don't count.

42 replies, 2183 views

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Reply everybody making $450k/yr goes back to Clinton-era rates... (Original post)
scheming daemons Dec 2012 OP
NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #1
indepat Dec 2012 #38
jberryhill Dec 2012 #2
NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #6
bowens43 Dec 2012 #3
dionysus Dec 2012 #4
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #5
CakeGrrl Dec 2012 #11
DevonRex Dec 2012 #15
bunnies Dec 2012 #18
phleshdef Dec 2012 #20
Cha Dec 2012 #28
Enrique Dec 2012 #7
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #14
Enrique Dec 2012 #25
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #26
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #8
Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #9
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #17
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #27
Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #31
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #34
NightWatcher Dec 2012 #10
exboyfil Dec 2012 #12
Lex Dec 2012 #16
phleshdef Dec 2012 #19
exboyfil Dec 2012 #29
phleshdef Dec 2012 #30
exboyfil Dec 2012 #37
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #33
exboyfil Dec 2012 #36
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #39
seabeyond Dec 2012 #13
allrevvedup Dec 2012 #21
kentuck Dec 2012 #22
scheming daemons Dec 2012 #24
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #23
tabasco Dec 2012 #32
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #35
Brother Buzz Dec 2012 #40
W_HAMILTON Dec 2012 #41
nineteen50 Dec 2012 #42

Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:19 PM

1. Well! Because! That's why.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:16 PM

38. The revenues lost by failure not raise income tax rates on incomes between $250,000 and $450,000

can easily be made up by future reductions in social security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits. Should this eventuality occur, would this not be some kind of great country or what with the Congress choosing to protect those with incomes in the $250,000 to $450,000 range rather than the elderly, the frail, and the ill.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:20 PM

2. Throw in a capital gains increase

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:23 PM

6. Tax it like regular income and I'll be very happy.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)


Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:21 PM

4. lol nt

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:22 PM

5. the cons are apoplectic with anger... and you are clueless

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:25 PM

11. On what alternate universe are you watching this take place? Fox News?

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:29 PM

15. snort

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:34 PM

18. *snif snif* Burning hair. Yuck. nt

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:36 PM

20. Where was there a lie? Don't call my President a liar unless you can fucking back it up.

Sick of this horse shit from your crowd.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:46 PM

28. You seem to have a big stake in spreading

inanity about our President.. all over the place. And, here you are again, devoid of facts.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:23 PM

7. why are our concessions permanent

and theirs are temporary?

What about the debt limit? What are they going to get when they hold hostages later this year?

or maybe the GOP won't hold hostages over the debt limit.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:27 PM

14. there is no such thing as "permanent"

All cuts can be restored and taxes can always increased or decreased whenever they want.

Permanence is non existent in government budgets.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:40 PM

25. that is an empty semantic answer

temporary vs. permanent is an extremely significant factor, it makes all the difference in the world. It was hotly debated when the tax cuts were first implemented, and the GOP has been fighting for permanent extension all along.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:42 PM

26. tell me what mechanism could take chained CPI away "permanently"?

Other than a constitutional amendment?

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:24 PM

8. sounds damn good to me!

I would like to see the dept ceiling included but I will take this one

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:24 PM

9. Two words: Debt Ceiling

What happens when the GOP says they will not raise the debt ceiling unless they get cuts to programs like SS and Medicare?

This new deal deal should include raising of the debt ceiling otherwise the GOP will have more leverage when the debt ceiling debate comes in the next few weeks.

Back to square one where those programs are on the table again.

Just watch. The GOP will hold the economy hostage yet again. The 2011 manufactured debt ceiling fiasco is the whole reason why we have the fiscal cliff now.

The GOP is all about manufactured crisis and they will manufacture another one in the next few weeks.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:31 PM

17. two words... 14th amendment

With no election to worry about, Obama will invoke it.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:42 PM

27. He says he won't.

Are you calling him a liar?

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:53 PM

31. You think Obama won't negotiate on the debt ceiling and will simply invoke the 14th amendment?

I doubt it. If history is any indication, that will not happen.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:59 PM

34. the threat of it is a negotiating tool

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:24 PM

10. Question: What did Obama give up? (besides moving the threshold from 250K to 400K)

I havent been following too closely but it looks like he's getting a lot more than giving

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:27 PM

12. Not enough revenue

Plain and simple.

Even $250K was not enough revenue for the government we want. Any defense cuts? It may be unpopular on this board, but I was not a big fan of the unemployment insurance extension without additional assurances that individuals are actually trying to find a job (including moving if that is what it comes to). My suspicion is that these families have adjusted their lifestyles to reflect the permanent unemployment check (for example taking up child care duties or working off the books).

Any solutions on Medicaid LTC expenses?

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:29 PM

16. "actually trying to find a job"

yeah, how about there aren't that many to "find"

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:34 PM

19. The defense cuts from the sequester still stand with the current deal being discussed.

And the President today said that he won't go back on the sequester cuts without more revenues to pay for it.

"but I was not a big fan of the unemployment insurance extension without additional assurances that individuals are actually trying to find a job (including moving if that is what it comes to). My suspicion is that these families have adjusted their lifestyles to reflect the permanent unemployment check "

^ Right wing bullshit. Have you ever tried to live off unemployment? I did it for 3 months and I got the max benefit my state allows and it was still a crummy way to live. Unemployment benefits are not adequate for most people.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:49 PM

29. I have been on unemployment as well

Yes it was much lower than what I earned in my job, but given the amount in the budget its extension should at least be discussed. We have pockets of high unemployment in the country, but we also have areas which are looking for labor. What long term unemployment does is lock a specific class of individuals to monthly payments without an expectation from those individuals? You might as well guarantee a minimum income to all individuals and do away away with unemployment insurance.

Roosevelt sold the New Deal by saying:

The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers. The Federal Government must and shall quit this business of relief.


I am not willing that the vitality of our people be further sapped by the giving of cash, of market baskets, of a few hours of weekly work cutting grass, raking leaves or picking up papers in the public parks. We must preserve not only the bodies of the unemployed from destitution but also their self-respect, their self-reliance and courage and determination.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:50 PM

30. I'm sorry, but you lost me at "continued dependence".

I think you are posting on the wrong website.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:15 PM

37. Take it up with FDR

it is his words for a similar situation.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:55 PM

33. Obviously, he has never been on it.

Because, in order to receive unemployment, one has to prove they're actively searching for jobs EVERY FUCKING WEEK THEY ARE ON IT. You also have to jump through all sorts of hoops like having to sit through hours of courses on resume writing, interviewing, "How to Deal with Change", etc. All for a quarter of what you were making when you worked. Anyone who has ever been on unemployment knows that.

And, I doubt he'd be so flippant about "including moving". Losing one's job is difficult enough, without having to worry about selling one's home--if they're lucky, and uprooting one's family and moving them to a strange place. Not to mention that very few employers will pay for a move. That's thousands of dollars out of one's own pockets, and likely money they don't have.

It's bad enough to have to listen to this kind of bullshit from wingnuts, but I find it utterly disgusting coming from a supposed Democrat.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:06 PM

36. We are talking after two years for extended unemployment

I was on unemployment, and yes I filled out the cards every week. My wife worked part time as a banquet waitress, and I sold my plasma for the half a year I was on unemployment. I also know it was not a full time job looking for work. I am not being flippant here, and trying to upset other people. We were willing to move if it came to it (which we eventually did for another job). I needed to find three new contacts for a job every week which I did. We had absolutely nothing in our area, and we hated to move but move we did.

If my wife had a professional position, and I had young children at home, I would have been more than willing to kick the can down the road for years getting the unemployment checks because that, combined with what I was not paying in childcare, would have made it worth it. I have to think many other families are in that situation now as well. Maybe I am wrong or being unfair.

Who says you have to move your family immediately?

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:17 PM

39. So what???

Again, how the hell do you know that people aren't looking? Nobody who has earned a decent paycheck wants to live on a pittance.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:27 PM

13. sounds like a win for us.... off what you say. nt

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:36 PM

21. Throw in Head Start

 

and a few other programs he mentioned in his appearance this afternoon. At this point I think the actual deal is less important than the debt ceiling, so as long as a mutually face-saving and not unreasonable bargain can be struck it's a win. The real horse trading is going to take place after Jan 1 but it will be better for Dems without the dangling sword to worry about.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:36 PM

22. But strange that what the Repubs want is permanent...

...and what the Democrats want is temporary.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:40 PM

24. there is no such thing as "permanent" in govt budgeting

Are you saying no future Congress can increase or decrease taxes?

No future Congress can cut funding to something or increase funding to something?

Talking about "permanence" in federal budgeting is laughable.


This is a good deal.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:38 PM

23. My concern is its too little revenue.

Which is going to put us in a bad place to defend social programs, Medicare and SS in the upcoming debt ceiling negotiations.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:55 PM

32. Where's my free LSD, man?!?

That's fucked up, man! I want my utopia now!!!

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:00 PM

35. Will it pass the House?

I'm okay with this deal, even though I wish they would have stuck to their guns about the tax rates. The question is, will the teabaggers go along with it? It could be the best deal in the world, but if they keep it from passing, we're back to Square One.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:21 PM

40. I'd be fine with that just so long as I could unload my dotcom stocks at the Clinton era prices

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:32 PM

41. Because it's the best you're gonna get.

The Republicans -- even though most will not vote for this deal -- will claim this was their compromise.

This doesn't do much to address the debt, deficit, or the debt ceiling. The Republicans will continue to wage war each time the discussion of these issues come up. And they will claim that they already did their part to compromise by allowing this proposed bill to pass.

You will not get any further tax increases. You will not get military cuts. You will not get stimulus. All you will get is demands for cuts to "entitlements" and that's it. The Republicans will claim they already compromised and now it's time for the president to compromise. They will hold the government and our economy hostage again and the president will cave yet again.

We should go off "the cliff" and start putting together piecemeal legislation to climb our way out. It's the only way you are gonna see any true sacrifice from the that which is truly responsible for our current debt problems: continued tax cuts that benefit the rich the most and military spending.

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Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:06 PM

42. Because someone making $250,000 a year

makes more in one month than the average person on social security makes in one year.

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