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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:30 PM Jan 2012

I Gotta Say... The Calls For Pledges, Purges, Loyalty, Et Al., For Obama At This Point In Time...

seem to be directly proportional to the palpable fear many express of a Republican win this coming fall.

And unless Obama suddenly turns into the worst campaigner of this, or any other century (not likely), I DO NOT SEE THAT HAPPENING!

If Obama is your man, and he was mine in 2008 both against Hillary Clinton and John McCain, then stand up and state your case. Most here do...

But some are waiting for Skinner to come down from Mount DU with the 2012 Commandments in pixel form which will free DU from ANY criticism of Obama for the rest of the year.

It certainly is his right, but I don't see that happening either.

Plus...

A.) Obama is an adult, and can certainly weather the criticism of folks at DU.

B.) If somebody posts it here, chances are, most likely it is already zooming around the web, and many more people than we DUers have read it. So... DU will not be able to throw the election in ANY direction.

C.) Many times the criticisms are posted here so that people have a heads-up, can read the thing, think, and respond, thereby sharpening their own arguments.

D.) It is not only insulting to pat fellow DUers on the head and tell them to go play on the playground until the church bell rings and we all come in to sing from the same hymnal, it is unhealthy for debate, for knowledge, and for this site.

E.) And... it makes you look frightened. Don't give in to fear. We've seen where that leads.

Many of us have this curious habit called THINKING. And we cherish said habit.

Just sayin...


111 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Gotta Say... The Calls For Pledges, Purges, Loyalty, Et Al., For Obama At This Point In Time... (Original Post) WillyT Jan 2012 OP
Funny how no one has actually called for pledges, purges, or loyalty oaths. TheWraith Jan 2012 #1
"You're either with us or against us." Bonobo Jan 2012 #5
as if there is something wrong with making that observation? Sheepshank Jan 2012 #75
164 Recs - "You're either with us or against us." progressoid Jan 2012 #7
LOL! TransitJohn Jan 2012 #28
Yep, just like the ridiculous, "I love Obama" thread semi-daily. Shows nothing but fear on their Lionessa Jan 2012 #63
"Funny how no one has actually called for pledges, purges, or loyalty oaths." quinnox Jan 2012 #10
+1 CakeGrrl Jan 2012 #17
Were you trying for a DUzy there? hootinholler Jan 2012 #34
Transparency karma! gkhouston Jan 2012 #96
Translation: "It's not true! And this will go down in your permanent record!" JackRiddler Jan 2012 #56
Whose record? Your record? Maven Jan 2012 #62
+1 treestar Jan 2012 #84
reply number 7 SwampG8r Jan 2012 #107
THIS is the very reason we never get the progressive revolution off the ground, FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #2
NO!! We lose because we don't do what the Republicans do... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2012 #11
Pretty much my point. FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #20
Exactly right!!! +1!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2012 #23
And on top of it all, Progressives are supposed to have a monopoly on intelligence and compassion FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #35
+1000000000000000000000000000 redqueen Jan 2012 #98
+1000 killbotfactory Jan 2012 #99
Post of the year! treestar Jan 2012 #108
Bingo!! We have a winner. Pisces Jan 2012 #94
Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that Democrats SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #22
An object in motion tends to stay in motion. That pendulum has been swinging both ways. FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #26
So it's the old "both sides are guilty" play? SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #33
Yep. Unless the President suddenly becomes the worst campaigner ever (doubtful), progressoid Jan 2012 #3
Then let's do something about it what say we? Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2012 #29
I have learned that every thread you post is ANTI-obama demtenjeep Jan 2012 #4
And You Would Be, What I Like To Call... Wrong WillyT Jan 2012 #12
But... but... SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #24
K&R, please stop with the loyalty oaths quinnox Jan 2012 #6
Is this where I present a blanket 'Fuck You' or xchrom Jan 2012 #8
I think a Fuck him and his blessed heart works RetroLounge Jan 2012 #32
Who has called for absolute loyalty? Arkana Jan 2012 #9
I agree, they do. They jump on every post that doesn't start with 'I love Democrats'. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #15
Some of them jump in and make one single post, usually post #1 MNBrewer Jan 2012 #76
How do they do that so consistently? bvar22 Jan 2012 #87
I don't know. Robotics? AI? MNBrewer Jan 2012 #89
we can't name names because that's publically calling someone out. Quantess Jan 2012 #58
Exactly. Everything is interpreted in extreme form. treestar Jan 2012 #85
Voted for Obama in 08 and I will in 2012. Nuff said for me. southernyankeebelle Jan 2012 #13
It's just DU Rules. Take it up with them. Don't attack Democratic Candidates during an election. MjolnirTime Jan 2012 #14
Define 'attack' ~ sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #16
For some, an attack is not praising the Dear Leader sufficiently loudly. MNBrewer Jan 2012 #77
What If Two Or More Democrats Are Running In A Primary ??? WillyT Jan 2012 #18
The answer to your question is in the TOS. nt MADem Jan 2012 #41
Go ahead and tell us what you would do if your only Dem options are Balgovich or Obama Sheepshank Jan 2012 #78
If that was the choice, why not choose Blagojevich over Obama? AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #80
There is only one Democratic Candidate for President MjolnirTime Jan 2012 #110
"It's just DU Rules. Take it up with them. Don't attack Democratic Candidates during an election." WillyT Jan 2012 #111
Here are the DU Rules. Could you point me to the one that your post quotes? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #31
Where did you get that list? hootinholler Jan 2012 #36
Ouch. You're right. I didn't even notice it was a DU2 page. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #40
I have foreseen election day whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #19
LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2012 #21
:) whatchamacallit Jan 2012 #25
Funny I always puke in my right shoe n/t hootinholler Jan 2012 #37
Pretty much the same for me. Maven Jan 2012 #64
Dammit! 99Forever Jan 2012 #74
LOL! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #88
I understand criticism Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2012 #27
Here's my view. This site is called Democratic Underground. Not Independent Underground. MADem Jan 2012 #30
Well... At Least You Are Clear In The Matter WillyT Jan 2012 #38
No--it's a choice, not a purge. Either follow that TOS, or take your chances. MADem Jan 2012 #39
Fine... But A Serious Question... WillyT Jan 2012 #43
It's like pornography--you know it when you see it. nt MADem Jan 2012 #45
LOL !!! - That Was Good !!! WillyT Jan 2012 #46
WillyT, you can choose to be purged. Blue_In_AK Jan 2012 #49
Naw... I'd Miss You Too Much WillyT Jan 2012 #52
Oh, HELL yeah Number23 Jan 2012 #42
+1!!! nt MADem Jan 2012 #47
Excellent. Scurrilous Jan 2012 #44
I don't know what to say. Wait Wut Jan 2012 #100
WELL SAID--"We aren't clones, but we should try to tone it down a bit." MADem Jan 2012 #101
Hyperbole much? Caretha Jan 2012 #105
I was going for an ironic twist there--glad you noticed! nt MADem Jan 2012 #106
It's the end of January. EFerrari Jan 2012 #48
"Post-Modern Pan-American Felting Group" - LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2012 #50
You and a lot of others. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #51
Should be enough of us to enlightenment Jan 2012 #65
Not A Bad Idea... Would Be One Raucus Group... WillyT Jan 2012 #66
Lol, I'm in. If only just to find out what it is! sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #70
Felt is wool that has been shredded, drowned, set against itself, mashed, EFerrari Jan 2012 #71
Ha! I love it. progressoid Jan 2012 #72
Brill! enlightenment Jan 2012 #109
I don't care about pledges, purges - any of that stuff bhikkhu Jan 2012 #53
Well said WillyT MuseRider Jan 2012 #54
Interesting ProSense Jan 2012 #55
I Said What I Said... You Said What You Said... I'm Glad We Agree... WillyT Jan 2012 #57
I ProSense Jan 2012 #61
"It's fascinating to watch that 'dish it out, but can't take it' aspect of the discussion." redqueen Jan 2012 #93
Well silly season is on nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #59
Beautiful, but at this point all it's showing... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #60
Criticizing Obama = OK. Advocating not voting, or voting 3rd party =/= OK Hugabear Jan 2012 #67
Oh I Agree... But It's January Man... WillyT Jan 2012 #68
First, there is no reason for this to be an especially nasty year because Obama is a shoe in. EFerrari Jan 2012 #69
Some who have adopted the bullying tactic that you describe may, in fact, not intend to help Obama. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #90
Whatever the intention is, that is the effect. EFerrari Jan 2012 #91
no one's stifling dissent. certain folks campaign against the guy 24/7 for the last three years. dionysus Jan 2012 #73
Because they are just starting to realize the inevitability of the re-election of this president. Ikonoklast Jan 2012 #79
+a million Number23 Jan 2012 #97
What precisely leads you to that conclusion? LanternWaste Jan 2012 #81
true, so true. barbtries Jan 2012 #82
K&R (nt) T S Justly Jan 2012 #83
I trust Skinners judgement on such stuff NNN0LHI Jan 2012 #86
Slobbering all over Chris Hedges because he's voting third party redqueen Jan 2012 #92
+1000 dionysus Jan 2012 #102
I have seen links to DU pkz Jan 2012 #95
see here my man; dionysus Jan 2012 #103
kr Norrin Radd Jan 2012 #104

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
1. Funny how no one has actually called for pledges, purges, or loyalty oaths.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:32 PM
Jan 2012

But your hyperbole and attempts to demonize people who think that a Democratic site should generally support Democrats are noted and read into the record.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
75. as if there is something wrong with making that observation?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:15 PM
Jan 2012

free speech and all permits one to call 'em as the see 'em. Attempts to shut down this side of the discourse (by belittling and denigrading) seems a tad hypocritital, don't you think?

 

Lionessa

(3,894 posts)
63. Yep, just like the ridiculous, "I love Obama" thread semi-daily. Shows nothing but fear on their
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:46 AM
Jan 2012

part, and resembles or gives off the same odor as things like 10 Commandments at courts, and forced prayer at school. Kind of a big banner saying one way is the only way when you enter here.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
10. "Funny how no one has actually called for pledges, purges, or loyalty oaths."
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:41 PM
Jan 2012

Oh yea?


It has been all over DU lately. And done with varying degrees of subtlety, from little to none.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
17. +1
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:46 PM
Jan 2012

It seems to me that the "shrillness" comes largely from frequent Obama critics/detractors, seeing how quickly and fervently the wagons circle around their compatriots with media outlets to trumpet the anti-POTUS sentiments.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
56. Translation: "It's not true! And this will go down in your permanent record!"
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:30 AM
Jan 2012

A perfect self-refutation. I'm in awe.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
84. +1
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:44 PM
Jan 2012

And one comes to a Democratic site to find it has more "criticism" than the M$M does. That's strange.

FarLeftFist

(6,161 posts)
2. THIS is the very reason we never get the progressive revolution off the ground,
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:34 PM
Jan 2012

Because so many progressives have a nihilistic vision and it all just implodes.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
11. NO!! We lose because we don't do what the Republicans do...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:41 PM
Jan 2012

We don't work from the grassroots and get qualified, formidable progressives elected at the state and local levels. We don't get them to run against Blue Dog and Republican candidates for the Congress.

And then when conservative Democrats and Republicans get into office, we turn around and blame Democrats for not being purely liberal.

It is ridiculous! It makes no sense! And it is OUR fault that we don't work harder to elect more progressives to office!!

While we have a responsibility to criticize and hold Obama/Democrats accountable for their decisions, we ALSO have a responsibility to get involved.

It's YES *WE* CAN!!

Not YES *THE-DICTATOR-OBAMA-WHO-DOESN'T-HAVE-TO-DEAL-WITH-A-CONGRESS-AND-CAN-JUST-SNAP-HIS-FINGERS-TO-GET-MORE-PROGRESSIVE-POLICIES* CAN!!

FarLeftFist

(6,161 posts)
20. Pretty much my point.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:50 PM
Jan 2012

This is the problem with hyper-progressivism, for the most part, nothing gets done because most choose to throw the baby out with the bath water. Most hyper-progressives don't want "the fight", they just want it ALL and they want it NOW! Which is a good mind-state to have IF they can keep themselves bound in reality instead of fantasy. Sadly most can not. Having core values and principles is a good thing, using those core values and principles to belittle others=Bad thing.

Instead of fighting for and trying to help elect progressives to Congress and continuously shift the Democratic party to the Left, most will choose to criticize, marginalize, and dismantle anyone or group that does not march in lock-step with their mindset. This becomes a turnoff for people who may be willing to vote Democratic but aren't ready to go hard-line just yet. We should be luring people into our party then convincing them of the benefits to all of humanity and to our greater society that is offered by progressivism.

Unfortunately this isn't the case. Most progressives will choose to just give up, threaten to vote 3rd party, or just not vote at all, not realizing that sometimes progress is measured one inch at a time and not just in feet or yards. We must realize that this is going to be a long tough fight and anyone willing to just give up is doing more harm to progressivism than good. But what we SHOULDN'T do is ditch the progress we've made in electing the representatives to the Democratic party. We must BUILD on our gains, NOT throw the baby out with the bath water, give up or walk away. Quitters NEVER win.

Our strategy should be unity and further integration. Imagine for a moment if the entire Nationwide Green Party, Socialist Party, Working Families Party, etc. decided to integrate within the Democratic Party and take their voters and representatives with them. Decided to run for offices in counties all across America and worked together in unity to spread the voices of the middle class from coast to coast taking over elected public positions everywhere in everything from Senate/Congress to Federal Judges and Governors, to School Boards, Mayors and Councilmen, etc.

But we don't. Instead we just break off into these new factions void of any unity in some nihilistic vision of our own perfection that winds up benefitting no one but our idealistic selves. The revolution never gets a chance to manifest because we are already fractured as a group, even though oddly enough we are all like-minded individuals. There's a certain elitism in the professional left that simultaneously wants the entire world to change but not do much to achieve that change. Instead of building on gains most will choose to dismantle or abandon.

FarLeftFist

(6,161 posts)
35. And on top of it all, Progressives are supposed to have a monopoly on intelligence and compassion
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:17 AM
Jan 2012

Yet most choose snark and insults, which is neither intelligent or compassionate. Don't even get me started on equality.

killbotfactory

(13,566 posts)
99. +1000
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:48 PM
Jan 2012

I just don't think the most vocal and strident leftists realize what a long hard slog we have ahead of us in passing a progressive agenda.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
22. Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that Democrats
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:52 PM
Jan 2012

here are demanding absolute loyalty. If you even agree with any non Democrat on a single issue you are branded as "supporting" "advocating" or "defending".

The problem here as I personally see it is... WE AREN'T REPUBLICANS. You are never going to get every Democrat or every liberal to march in lock step, and it's a mistake to try.

I have seen posts today calling anyone who agrees with Chris Hedges on anything, "pond scum, imbecile, stupid". I have seen people attack anyone who agrees with Ron Paul's "I am so fucking far to the wacked out right I have come all the way around to the left on a couple issues," stance on legalization or war.

Yeah I'm voting for Obama, because I have no choice. But that doesn't seem to be enough for some. Can't you just take the vote and deal with the criticism?


FarLeftFist

(6,161 posts)
26. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. That pendulum has been swinging both ways.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:01 AM
Jan 2012

Don't know who started it nor do I care.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
33. So it's the old "both sides are guilty" play?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:15 AM
Jan 2012

I can see that. But that is not a solution. I started falling for it myself. I found myself calling people names for no reason other than they pissed me off.

After that I started to spend less and less time here. Good for my sanity. However I do still come by, usually on Debate nights because then there is usually some semblance of "unity" as "both sides" go after the Republicans.

I don't attack anymore. I never did really but I was thin skinned and defensive. I wish I would see more people try to reign in their animosity.

progressoid

(49,824 posts)
3. Yep. Unless the President suddenly becomes the worst campaigner ever (doubtful),
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:35 PM
Jan 2012

he can beat anything the GOP throws at him.

I'm more worried about Senate and House races. Losing those seats are really going to hurt us.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
24. But... but...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:56 PM
Jan 2012

None of those threads "praise" Obama.

Just because every thread you post isn't anti-Obama does not mean you are not, well today I saw the words "pond scum, imbecile, and stupid, used for anyone trying to think for themselves. So you pick...




 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
6. K&R, please stop with the loyalty oaths
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:37 PM
Jan 2012

and so on already as the OP says. We progressives don't take kindly to this, we aren't right wingers who take orders with a smile and obey authoritarian thinking.

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
9. Who has called for absolute loyalty?
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:40 PM
Jan 2012

I swear, some folks around here have bigger persecution complexes than the Christian right.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
76. Some of them jump in and make one single post, usually post #1
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:18 PM
Jan 2012

and never come back to discuss the post they made. I've noticed a trend like that in certain members.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
87. How do they do that so consistently?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:25 PM
Jan 2012

It is only a noticeable few, obviously attempting to impede discussion by derailing any thread they personally disagree with.
They MUST be sitting there for hours on end with their finger poised on the button ready to post a one line ad hominen reply void of substance before even reading the post.
That kind of investment in obstruction tactics on a discussion board is more than just a little bit creepy.

That makes me glad that I have a life.





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]






Quantess

(27,630 posts)
58. we can't name names because that's publically calling someone out.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:32 AM
Jan 2012

There are a handful, some louder than others.

 

MjolnirTime

(1,800 posts)
14. It's just DU Rules. Take it up with them. Don't attack Democratic Candidates during an election.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:44 PM
Jan 2012

Just sayin...

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
18. What If Two Or More Democrats Are Running In A Primary ???
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:48 PM
Jan 2012

What if the Democrat is a Rod Blagojevich type?

What if I disagree with most of the positions said Democratic candidate has taken?


 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
78. Go ahead and tell us what you would do if your only Dem options are Balgovich or Obama
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:22 PM
Jan 2012

who WOULD you vote for then?

Are the Reps looking mighty tasty and attractive now?

Good god!

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
80. If that was the choice, why not choose Blagojevich over Obama?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:19 PM
Jan 2012

He was a top-level Chicago politician. People who voted for him knew that he was an amiable crook who meant no harm to them.

Although he had been under continuous investigation for years, no one ever stepped in to prosecute him until he publicly announced his support for certain laid off workers. No one ever sought to prosecute him until he announced that the State of Illinois would discontinue doing business with the Bank of America because it would not honor certain committments to those workers.

He was punished because he is the only politician to actually take action to hold any bank accountable for the financial meltdown and their avoidance of responsibility to the working class.


 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
111. "It's just DU Rules. Take it up with them. Don't attack Democratic Candidates during an election."
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 10:33 PM
Jan 2012

That was the post I was responding to...

On your response to me...

You do realize that there will be HUNDREDS of Democrats running this year, right ???

Some of them will deserve support, others... not so much.


 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
31. Here are the DU Rules. Could you point me to the one that your post quotes?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:12 AM
Jan 2012

"This is a website for Democrats and other progressives.
Do not personally attack any individual DU member in any way. Do not post broad-brush attacks, rude nicknames, or crude insults toward a group of DU members.
Do not post anything bigoted/insensitive.
Do not post support for non-viable or third-party spoiler candidates in any general election.
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, crude insults, or right-wing smears against Democrats.
Do not post anything which is disruptive and likely to derail an otherwise thoughtful discussion.
Do not post harassment or threats. Do not advocate harm or violence.
Do not post graphic content.
Do not post in the wrong forum or group.
Be aware that some forums and groups have special rules, and follow those rules.
Do not post links to inappropriate sources.
Do not violate copyright.
Do not post spam.
Do not use an inappropriate signature line or avatar image which could potentially distract attention from discussions.
Do not interfere with forum moderation.
"

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
36. Where did you get that list?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:21 AM
Jan 2012

We don't have hard and fast rules like that anymore.

They have been superseded by the community standard.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
19. I have foreseen election day
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:49 PM
Jan 2012

I go to my local polling place on my way to work - sign in - occupy the first available booth - sigh loudly and shake my head - dutifully vote for the democratic nominee (Obama) - drop my ballot in the box - put my little "I voted" sticker on my shirt pocket - walk outside - failing to locate a trash bin or shrub, I remove my left shoe and puke into it.

Maven

(10,533 posts)
64. Pretty much the same for me.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:48 AM
Jan 2012

Except I like my shoes too much. Perhaps I will find a Republican nearby and puke on their shoes.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,353 posts)
27. I understand criticism
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:03 AM
Jan 2012

Campaigning against Obama/Dems and trying DIDO to convince that they are irredeemable and awful as the Repubs and how voting for anybody is essentially worthless seems to be all that some people want to do, however. And it's counterproductive.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
30. Here's my view. This site is called Democratic Underground. Not Independent Underground.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:08 AM
Jan 2012

Not "Let Me Be Self-Important and Rail Against The Main Purpose of This Board Because I Am SPECIAL" Underground. And not Republican Underground.

I have a strong feeling that some people posting contrarian bullshit--and that is what it is, IMO--are doing it for reasons other than discussion. Some like a good fight, some like (or more properly, NEED) the attention, and of course, some are trolls (they tend to out themselves fairly quickly, fortunately). Now, if the shoe of "some" doesn't fit you, please don't wear it and then cry to me that your foot is pinched. I used the word "some" quite deliberately.

Some people here tend to think that their little words in cyberspace will make a huge difference. They won't. Everyone and their mother who is active on this board could stay home and not vote, and no one would notice. Certainly, every little bit helps, and I don't mean to dissuade anyone from GOTVing, precinct walking, doing the phone-a-friend thing, all the stuff that I like to do, myself, on behalf of candidates I care about--I'm just putting us in perspective, in terms of the Big Picture.

It's really, to my mind, more about atmosphere. A continuous stream of that stinky "Waaah, Obama SUCKS, the Democrats SUCK, the SYSTEM...yeah, the SYSTEM, MAN!!!!! It SUCKS!!!!!" bullshit just fouls the air.

My personal view? Go peddle that stupid shit to people who want to hear it--of course, I won't get my way, but I won't do a Wet Hen over it. People who carp over tangential issues, who lie, who deliberately misrepresent, who knowingly take things out of context, who accuse Obama of passing bad laws (when they fail to "get" that Congress, not the President, passes/makes laws), who nitpick, who pretend that at this stage of the game, there's any other option (no, there isn't--you want change? Start growing politicians of your favored flavor, and start with local and state government--you don't "get" to begin at the top tier), to my mind, are engaging in adolescent, attention-seeking behavior. They can't kick the dog, so they want to come here and have a big dramatic battle, with all sorts of hectoring, and huffing, puffing, hurt feelings, poutrage, and all that other silly stuff.

If it's really being said "all over the web" well, go elsewhere, then, if there's no shortage of places to be obstreperous, to play those stupid
LOOK At MEEEE, Read MY Post, Get Upset!!! games. Why would anyone who really supports Democrats for election feel that kind of NEED to come here to shit in the punch, unless their actual purpose was to be self-important and contrary? Go do that I-Am-So-Smart-I-Could-Kiss-Myself "thinking" elsewhere. Don't get pissed that blatantly anti-Democratic diatribes, posted repeatedly by the same broken records, aren't welcomed with a kiss and a hug at a site called Democratic Underground. That's my opinion, and mine alone, but I wouldn't be surprised if others share it.

They're creating a record, everytime they post, these professional carpers, whiners, complainers, and dramatists. And once the GOP has a nominee, they'll have to either STFU, or risk their membership if they persist in posting material that has potential to suppress votes for our Democratic nominee.

That's in the TOS. Good thing, too. Like Skinner said, you take your chances.

In the meantime, I just keep the air freshener handy....

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
38. Well... At Least You Are Clear In The Matter
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:25 AM
Jan 2012
They're creating a record, everytime they post, these professional carpers, whiners, complainers, and dramatists. And once the GOP has a nominee, they'll have to either STFU, or risk their membership if they persist in posting material that has potential to suppress votes for our Democratic nominee.


Sounds like a loyalty purge to me.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
39. No--it's a choice, not a purge. Either follow that TOS, or take your chances.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:30 AM
Jan 2012

You're a big kid, you can figure it out.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
43. Fine... But A Serious Question...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:38 AM
Jan 2012

How does one determine if a post or thread at DU suppresses voter turnout?

Will people at DU need to declare in a thread that someone's opinion piece or posted article has caused them to not vote, will we have a new DU Jury system, or will this be more of a guessing game?

Ok... it wasn't too serious...




Number23

(24,544 posts)
42. Oh, HELL yeah
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:36 AM
Jan 2012
Don't get pissed that blatantly anti-Democratic diatribes, posted repeatedly by the same broken records, aren't welcomed with a kiss and a hug at a site called Democratic Underground. That's my opinion, and mine alone, but I wouldn't be surprised if others share it.


Oh, it is MOST DEFINITELY shared. MOST DEFINITELY.

But I take comfort. As I have noted before, there was a time when every bit of anti-Obama drivel, no matter how incoherent. No matter how idiotic. No matter how UNTRUE was hailed by the Perpetually Petulant with hundreds of recs. DU's home page was blanketed with this stuff for months on end.

But oh my, the times they are a'changing. A post upthread reminded me that the post with George Clooney strong support of the president got 164 recs which is awesome. The post about Harry "Obama has no moral compass" Belafonte didn't come close. The times they are a'changing. Cliffordu posted a very eloquent statement on this a few days ago:

The self aggrandizing are being deflated, the posers are being shown for what they are and the Obama haters are being shunted off to the margins where they should have been all along.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=33449

Wait Wut

(8,492 posts)
100. I don't know what to say.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:59 PM
Jan 2012

You already said it all. I'm done with the arguing. I've been doing it too long. Not just with this President, but for every Democrat, Progressive and Liberal that I've supported or not. It's a battle that the left perpetuates out of frustration. Frustration with the knowledge that we will never get everything we want. But, instead of taking that frustration out on the right, we argue with each other. It's easier. Makes more sense, in a way. Like arguing with family. You know you'll still be family after the argument, they won't slash your tires or kill your cat. I can get completely freaked out by a post from someone in GD and then laugh with them in the Lounge. Nothing we say here is fatal.

I think we're all here for the same, or at least similar reason. We want to elect Democrats, Progressives and Liberals. We'll always have arguments. Some will support our President more than others. Some hate Apple. Some hate guns. I've even noticed some hate the Packers. (cough) We aren't clones, but we should try to tone it down a bit. We have common ground, already. Let's find a common voice.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
101. WELL SAID--"We aren't clones, but we should try to tone it down a bit."
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:16 PM
Jan 2012

Precisely--disagree without being disagreeable. Take issue with a policy direction without accusing the President of being a sell-out, axe murdering, child molesting Republican, or worse!

It's the hyperbolic language and self-important drama that are perhaps more tiresome and irritating than the political disagreements. I tend to discount any discussion that goes in that "Waah Obama sucks because he doesn't care about..." direction. I have more respect for, and interest in, issue-based discussions.

 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
105. Hyperbole much?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:31 PM
Jan 2012
Take issue with a policy direction without accusing the President of being a sell-out, axe murdering, child molesting Republican, or worse!




EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
48. It's the end of January.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:53 AM
Jan 2012

I swear, even if I have to break Ignore, I'm not doing this for ten months. Even if I have to confine my posts to the Post-Modern Pan-American Felting Group. I will not serve.

lol

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
65. Should be enough of us to
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:51 AM
Jan 2012

request that the group be established - isn't that how it's supposed to work?

EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
71. Felt is wool that has been shredded, drowned, set against itself, mashed,
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 03:15 AM
Jan 2012

rolled and steamed into compliance.

bhikkhu

(10,708 posts)
53. I don't care about pledges, purges - any of that stuff
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:11 AM
Jan 2012

...but I do think it is rather important to stick to the facts, to check facts, and to pay attention to the real issues going into an election year.

MuseRider

(34,057 posts)
54. Well said WillyT
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:21 AM
Jan 2012

It is a curious habit and one I refuse to see as a bad one.

Not a fan of loyalty oaths myself.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
55. Interesting
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:22 AM
Jan 2012
A.) Obama is an adult, and can certainly weather the criticism of folks at DU.

As opposed to the other people who are criticized that when criticized, seem to drive some people over the edge? It's like there is some expectation that only Obama should be criticized, and his critics are off limits.

B.) If somebody posts it here, chances are, most likely it is already zooming around the web, and many more people than we DUers have read it. So... DU will not be able to throw the election in ANY direction.

How does this matter? It's not like everything posted around the Internets is met with the same reception, or any other discussion board has the ability to sway the election.

C.) Many times the criticisms are posted here so that people have a heads-up, can read the thing, think, and respond, thereby sharpening their own arguments.

That goes the same for anything posted here. I mean, are you saying people should be sharpening their anti-Obama arguments, but not pro-Obama ones? Most Democrats are looking to defeat Republicans and debunk distortions.

D.) It is not only insulting to pat fellow DUers on the head and tell them to go play on the playground until the church bell rings and we all come in to sing from the same hymnal, it is unhealthy for debate, for knowledge, and for this site.

Ah, if everyone would take their own advice.

E.) And... it makes you look frightened. Don't give in to fear. We've seen where that leads.

I don't know, there have been some pretty frightened responses to criticisms of people other than Obama. It's fascinating to watch that "dish it out, but can't take it" aspect of the discussion. The attempts to portray criticism of some people as sacrilegious.


 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
57. I Said What I Said... You Said What You Said... I'm Glad We Agree...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:31 AM
Jan 2012

with ourselves...



But I still don't know how you feel about purges and loyalty oathes.



ProSense

(116,464 posts)
61. I
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:41 AM
Jan 2012

"But I still don't know how you feel about purges and loyalty oathes."

...think people throw those words around like strawmen. If a person is a member of the Green or Libertarian parties, they can't be purged from the Democratic Party.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
93. "It's fascinating to watch that 'dish it out, but can't take it' aspect of the discussion."
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:06 PM
Jan 2012

Indeed it is.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
59. Well silly season is on
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:36 AM
Jan 2012

and quite frankly, it is getting to the point that any serious matter can't be posted... so quite frankly, I am giving up on doing that. In fact, looking for man bytes dog stories any longer, with some other non crunchy sugary snacks and will apologize for the serious ones. Anyway, there are a few subjects, not just the President, that cannot be discussed here in any serious manner any longer. I guess the usefulness of a site goes down proportionally to the size of membership.



And until silly season is over... am afraid the calls just will increase. They always do, when silly season starts.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
60. Beautiful, but at this point all it's showing...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:41 AM
Jan 2012

Last edited Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:27 AM - Edit history (2)

is that you can't wake a man who is only pretending to sleep. Or reason with those who aren't interested in reason.

Look at some of the utterly fanatic posts here. The drive-to-purge will never end. This mentality will keep searching for potential traitors, forever. If the supply of actual people who differ from "the line" is exhausted, new ones will be invented. It has its fascination to the sociologically inclined, for sure. The pretense it does anything whatsoever for the Obama 2012 campaign (except maybe turn off a few undecideds who wander in to this electronic auto-da-fe) is the biggest joke at all.

But I guess by being so reasoned and eloquent in a short, simple form, you've managed to draw the most enthusiastic calls for a purge yet. Just look at the posts on this thread that invoke TOS and tell you all your posts are being recorded for future scrutiny! Suspect by definition!

Hugabear

(10,340 posts)
67. Criticizing Obama = OK. Advocating not voting, or voting 3rd party =/= OK
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:56 AM
Jan 2012

This is going to be an extremely nasty election year, and even more so if Gingrich winds up as the GOP nominee. The rethugs are going to be out in force, fired up over the prospect of getting rid of their 'Black Menace'.

Criticizing Obama is one thing - and there is plenty to criticize about. But advocating not voting at all, or voting for 3rd party candidates, should not be condoned here on DU. If there was ever a year when we needed party unity, this is it.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
68. Oh I Agree... But It's January Man...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:03 AM
Jan 2012

I didn't expect the calls for loyalty/purges to start until late spring/early summer.



Maybe it's the mild winter we're having?




EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
69. First, there is no reason for this to be an especially nasty year because Obama is a shoe in.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:59 AM
Jan 2012

We aren't required to channel every filthy thing the GOP does to keep the money flowing in. The real challenge isn't the White House at all but the House.

Second, accusing other posters of advocating for not voting or for voting 3rd party has become a bullying tactic that has very little or usually nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's a waste of time and doesn't help Obama in any way, let alone "party unity".

Whatever. I realize that people who do that think they're helping in some way but all they're doing is pissing people off and that's no way to get the House back. This is a recording.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
90. Some who have adopted the bullying tactic that you describe may, in fact, not intend to help Obama.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:48 PM
Jan 2012

Maybe pissing people off is exactly what they intend.

Maybe some of them are authoritarians rather than people who believe in democratic principles and democratic participation.

It may be that some do not want to see Democrats take back the House.

EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
91. Whatever the intention is, that is the effect.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 06:53 PM
Jan 2012

And it is sloth, basically, that keeps pounding at this loyalty to the president stuff instead of dealing with issues, with problems in key districts, or with real voter outreach.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
73. no one's stifling dissent. certain folks campaign against the guy 24/7 for the last three years.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:56 AM
Jan 2012

it's being done to turn as many people against voting for him as possible, and it's transparent.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
79. Because they are just starting to realize the inevitability of the re-election of this president.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:35 PM
Jan 2012

And that their three-year campaign here on DU against him has been a failure.

Those that can only seem to find fault with Democrats and never Republicans are now angry that they have wasted enormous amounts of time and accomplished exactly *nothing*.

The desperation displayed is somewhat telling as their opinions are becoming increasingly marginalized as members are ignoring their screeds.

As was noted above, Greens, Socialists, and Libertarians cannot be purged from the Democratic Party, as they are not members of it, but spend quite a lot of time whining to the world that they are actually the 'base' of this party, when in fact, they are nothing of the sort, not even close.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
97. +a million
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:42 PM
Jan 2012
The desperation displayed is somewhat telling as their opinions are becoming increasingly marginalized as members are ignoring their screeds.


It is very noticeable, isn't it? The home page of this web site is no longer littered with their foolishness. The days of 150+ recs for every bit of anti-Obama tripe on DU appears to FINALLY be over.

That trumad's Prosense appreciation thread got so many recs should have been the alarm for those that do absolutely nothing here but tear down and criticize.
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
81. What precisely leads you to that conclusion?
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:23 PM
Jan 2012

"seem to be directly proportional..."

What precisely leads you to that conclusion that one is directly predicated on the other?

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
82. true, so true.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jan 2012

if i didn't hear nothing but fucking republicans, republicans, republicans every time i get in my car i might not be so afraid. and all i listen to is NPR. if NPR is this bad the media most of the country is ingesting at this time must be so much worse.

i see it as a self fulfilling prophecy. the PTB which owns the media believes that by soaking the populace in this bullshit, when people go vote they'll believe there is actually a sensible alternative. that's my theory.

but you are so right. FUCK fear.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
92. Slobbering all over Chris Hedges because he's voting third party
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:03 PM
Jan 2012

does not = criticizing Obama.

I don't know, maybe you're talking about something else, but THAT is the reason I'd like for the republican candidate to be declared sooner rather than later. It's flipping annoying seeing people do all they can to skate right around the edges of outright advocating voting for a third party in the GE.

pkz

(719 posts)
95. I have seen links to DU
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:17 PM
Jan 2012

on other sites I visit, telling them to read how much this site disses our President.

I agree...looks weak and scared

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
103. see here my man;
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:29 PM
Jan 2012

A.) Obama is an adult, and can certainly weather the criticism of folks at DU.

no one is worried about obama's feelings. many DUers are sick of the 3 years, 24/7 campaign to convince people how evil he is. People generally don't come to DU to hear about how bad the dems are.

B.) If somebody posts it here, chances are, most likely it is already zooming around the web, and many more people than we DUers have read it. So... DU will not be able to throw the election in ANY direction.

when people make a DU career out of trashing a guy with 99% of their posts, it becomes clear people doing so are trying to convince people not to vote for them

C.) Many times the criticisms are posted here so that people have a heads-up, can read the thing, think, and respond, thereby sharpening their own arguments.

do you think for a minute anyone buys that excuse?

D.) It is not only insulting to pat fellow DUers on the head and tell them to go play on the playground until the church bell rings and we all come in to sing from the same hymnal, it is unhealthy for debate, for knowledge, and for this site.

that's what happens to people who do nothing but trash dems on a dem board

E.) And... it makes you look frightened. Don't give in to fear. We've seen where that leads.

you're mistaking annoyance with fear






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