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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:30 PM

If I by gas at CITGO

am I supporting Hugo Chavez's Bolivarian revolution? Disclaimer - I hope I am. I am not a Hugo fanboy, but I support his efforts to share his country's wealth with its poorest citizens.

31 replies, 2913 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply If I by gas at CITGO (Original post)
arely staircase Dec 2012 OP
Thinkingabout Dec 2012 #1
arely staircase Dec 2012 #3
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #4
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #5
ellenfl Dec 2012 #10
pampango Dec 2012 #2
whistler162 Dec 2012 #6
physioex Dec 2012 #8
eggplant Dec 2012 #12
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #13
arely staircase Dec 2012 #18
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #28
arely staircase Dec 2012 #31
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #7
arely staircase Dec 2012 #17
Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #22
sarchasm Dec 2012 #9
cheapdate Dec 2012 #11
Earth_First Dec 2012 #14
reACTIONary Dec 2012 #15
Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #23
arely staircase Dec 2012 #16
cheapdate Dec 2012 #21
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #19
cheapdate Dec 2012 #20
Crackinrocket Dec 2012 #24
arely staircase Dec 2012 #25
cheapdate Dec 2012 #26
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #27
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #29
cheapdate Dec 2012 #30

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:41 PM

1. Which makes sense, purchasing oil from Saudi, etc who supports terrorist who attack us,

Or Venezuela after Chavez called W a devil. Seems like having W called a devil did not compare to the Twin Towers. Buy CITGO.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:44 PM

3. i had much rather my money go to build schools and housing for poor Venezuelans than

Semtex and plane tickets for rich Saudis and their dupes.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:44 PM

4. I usually buy Citgo, for the reasons you cited.

It's not a perfect solution, but it makes me feel a little better.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:22 PM

5. me also. nt

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:27 PM

10. i buy sunoco, which is mostly from canada, or citgo. eom

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:43 PM

2. Agreed. Reducing poverty in the Third World is a laudable goal. n/t

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:29 PM

6. nope you are supporting Venezuela's prison system....

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:11 PM

8. You are both wrong.....

If you consider that petroleum products are fungible and a commodity, it would make no difference where you get the products.

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Response to physioex (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:51 PM

12. +1

Gas is gas.

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Response to physioex (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:53 PM

13. +1 / I buy gas according to price. nt

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Response to physioex (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:48 AM

18. on the wholesale market

but if i buy at an exxon station i am giving money to exxon - same with bp, citgo, etc.

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Response to physioex (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:45 AM

28. Citgo is (or was) owned by the Venezuelan government, so while the fuel comes from everywhere

 

the profits go to Venezuela, and after that a much larger portion than that any other energy corporation goes to the Venezuelan people.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:36 PM

31. that is what I thought

Eom

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:15 PM

7. I hope so. I would love to support what he is doing for people all over

Latin America, mostly of course in Venezuela and the way he provides cheap oil to the poor, right here in the US. Wish our own government would think of the poor that way.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:46 AM

17. +1

nice to be on the same side as you. we usually aren't. happy new year, sabrina.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:56 PM

22. So as long as he supports the poor, he gets a free pass on the abuse of dissidents and shutting down

 

dissent, trampling free speech etc?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:13 PM

9. Gas and diesel is like 7 cents a gallon in Venezuela.

... just sayin'.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:28 PM

11. Hugo Chavez is a megalomaniac and an ideologue.

His behavior causes me concern. Who monopolizes the the radio and television to talk for 6 or 8 hours at a stretch? A democratically elected leader calling for a constitutional amendment to extend his rule is a red flag in my book. His intentions may be good, but many of his initiatives seem to be marked by extraordinary incompetence. Many of his legislative initiatives seem to be poorly conceived and unworkable. I'm not a fan.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:54 PM

14. Gee...now where else have we seen this...

My democratically strong-armed government is better than yours!

Neener, neener, nee-ner...

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:55 PM

15. +10. But he won't be around for much longer.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:57 PM

23. One can only hope.

 

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:45 AM

16. so are most members of congress

i am not a chavez cheerleader. i think he has quite the authoritarian streak (though democratically elected.) however, i very much admire his prioritization of improving the lot of the poor in his country. the entire history of latin america is full of leaders who line their pockets by turning their natural resources over to foreign capitalists. hugo doesn't do that. i respect him for it and would like to show my support for that at the gas pump. i had rather my money build schools for venezuela's poor than underwear bombs for al qaeda.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:51 PM

21. Chavez has admirable ideas and attitudes concerning his countrymen.

I just think he's a huge asshole. And if results and competence in governance matter, then I think Hugo Chavez has been a huge disappointment, especially given the enormous oil revenue he's had to work with.

On the other hand, president Eva Morales of Bolivia, is every bit as leftist as Chavez, probably more so by a big margin. But I like Morales.

I feel like a whore no matter who I buy oil from. Citgo's destruction of the Orinoco River Basin is appalling. BP's poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico is heartbreaking.

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:50 PM

19. Mmm, that is what the Bush administration and their propagandists had to say

about Chavez.

Let me ask you, do you think the Venezuelan people are too stupid to notice all this about the man they have reelected multiple times over the past 14 years? Maybe they should have consulted with the far Right here in the US who would have told them what a megalomaniac and idealogue he is before making that mistake over and over again?

At least if you are going to criticize the democratically elected leader of another country, please don't use right wing talking points. Base your criticism on facts if you expect them to be taken seriously.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:12 PM

20. "...the Bush administration and their propagandists"

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Whatever their opinion was about Hugo Chavez and Venezuela has nothing whatsoever to do with any criticisms I have.

The mere fact that Chavez won elections is hardly a compelling argument that he has been a wise or effective leader. I believe we can each come up with examples closer to home that would show how that argument might be flawed.

And while I'm loathe to dignify your question about whether or not I "think the Venezuelan people are too stupid" with an answer, I'll answer simply, no, I don't think the Venezuelan people are "too stupid", as you put it.

Hugo Chavez's frequent, often daily, habit of appearing on television to deliver non-stop, rambling, speeches often lasting for 3 hours or more is behavior consistent with a megalomaniac, in my opinion.

Besides appearing on the five, Venezuelan state television channels, president Chavez's speeches, known as cadenas, must also be carried on almost the entire national broadcast system. During the 2012 election campaign, a Chavez speech even interrupted a broadcast by opposition candidate Henrique Capriles.

RCTV, once Venezuela's most watched station, lost its broadcast license in 2007. It resumed broadcasting on cable as RCTV Internacional, but was taken off the air in 2010 for refusing to carry Mr Chavez's obligatory broadcasts.

Making matters worse, in my opinion, is the content and tone of his speeches. He relies far too much on pompous, overblown, hyperbolic, rhetoric as would befit a national leader, in my opinion. There's a time and a place for bombastic speechifying, but all day, all the time doesn't fit my taste, if it pleases you.

Substantively, I believe a solid argument can be made that Venezuela and Venezuelans are practically no better off after 12 years of his rule.

I have serious objections to many specific provisions in Venezuela's sweeping education reforms of 2010 -- which I should add have nothing at all to do with "right wing talking points", as you implied. Even if many of the law's objectives were laudable, I think the law as passed is an unworkable mess.

Likewise, I have deep objections to many of the reforms to the "Law on Social Responsibility in Radio and Television".

Lastly, I'll continue to "criticize the democratically elected leader of another country" however I see fit, thank you. Whether I'll be "taken seriously" is not something that concerns me all that much.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:00 PM

24. Do me a favor.

 

Look up illiberal democracy on Google. Was it the Venezuelan people that reelected him or the suppression of all opposition?

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Response to cheapdate (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:17 PM

25. i don't think megalomaniacal ideologue and good deeds have to be mutually exclusive.

i am willing to accept that both apply to chavez. i don't worship him and defend everything he does, as admittedly some on DU do.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:10 PM

26. Buy gasoline from a local Mom-and-Pop, or from an independent retailer.

Never buy from WalMart or from one of the major oil companies if you can avoid it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:40 PM

27. it's buy! not by.nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:49 AM

29. You certainly brought out the "Chavez is a dictator" faction. I guess he's been out of the news for a

 

and they're all feeling brave again.


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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:58 AM

30. "...they're all feeling brave again". Haha! Oh Snap!

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