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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:17 PM

How many of my fellow Duers want to see a deal with the GOP?


How many would rather we let everything go away and start fresh in January?

37 replies, 2167 views

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Reply How many of my fellow Duers want to see a deal with the GOP? (Original post)
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 OP
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #8
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #11
forestpath Dec 2012 #16
Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #24
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #25
Autumn Dec 2012 #2
Chemisse Dec 2012 #3
TDale313 Dec 2012 #4
Eddie Haskell Dec 2012 #10
dkf Dec 2012 #19
RandiFan1290 Dec 2012 #5
unblock Dec 2012 #6
Taverner Dec 2012 #7
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #9
Taverner Dec 2012 #12
TDale313 Dec 2012 #13
dhol82 Dec 2012 #14
forestpath Dec 2012 #15
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #33
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #17
Chisox08 Dec 2012 #18
Coyotl Dec 2012 #20
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #32
Aerows Dec 2012 #21
ecstatic Dec 2012 #22
Kablooie Dec 2012 #29
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #31
hay rick Dec 2012 #23
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #26
Skittles Dec 2012 #27
Kablooie Dec 2012 #28
dmosh42 Dec 2012 #30
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #34
bvar22 Dec 2012 #35
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #36
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #37

Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:21 PM

1. depends entirely on what is in the deal.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:35 PM

8. What would you approve in a deal? What would you reject?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:44 PM

11. I don't want any benefit cuts for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and veterans benefits.


That's my baseline. I'm willing to consider a deal that respects that principle, depending what is in it.



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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:54 PM

16. My baseline too.

 

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

24. +1. I am more open than most DUers, but ...

I would not be happy with the equivalent of our ugly health care.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:25 AM

25. Mine too.

Return to the Clinton era tax rates. That would be a good thing in my opinion. If tax breaks there must be they should be as Obama has suggested under $250,000 per year income for a single person.

That would exclude anyone who earns his living through work from the tax increases. And it is the ordinary people who earn their money at jobs who keep our economy and our country moving.

I think our biggest economic problem is the disparity in incomes. I do not support equalizing things to the point that hardworking, smart people are not rewarded for their contributions. But I do think that hardworking people who are not necessarily so clever should also have rewards and incentives.

And I think we have a duty to care for those who cannot fend for themselves -- children, elderly, disabled, mentally ill and just plain extremely neurotic.

Many Americans cannot earn their living in our society today no matter how hard they try. And a surprising number of people just are not accepted or cannot find useful roles in today's automated workplace. Let's face it. At this time we have more people than jobs.

So we have an obligation to dare for the people, to provide for the people who don't have jobs. And that obligation has to be paid for by the people who make a lot of money eliminating jobs.

Bill Gates is just one example of a person who has made a fortune from technology that eliminated jobs and impoverished other people. His work has also improved our lives and brought progress. But he and others like him (and I think he would agree with me) have an obligation to share the fruits of their creativity with people who have been left out and hurt by that very creativity.

In the end, we are all one. What happens to the poorest and least "deserving" among us happens to us all.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:21 PM

2. I have embraced the cliff. I eagerly anticipate the cliff.

The tax cuts can expire and new, stand alone bills can be put up. When the pukes obstruct, hang it around their neck.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:22 PM

3. That's how I feel about it too.

They well deserve the repercussions of this.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:24 PM

4. My gut says...

We'll get a better deal (or be able to get anything at all) once we've gone over the cliff and Repugs are officially voting for a tax cut.

That said, very concerned about what happens to people collecting unemployment insurance if we don't have a deal in place. Most other issues I think can and will be dealt with, but this is seriously scary for those who would be affected.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:39 PM

10. Come Jan. 2nd the Republicans will have to vote against a tax cut.

Let them explain that to their constituents. No deal!

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Response to Eddie Haskell (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:21 PM

19. How do you get a vote to come up in the house?

 

It's always been the house that is the obstacle to Obama getting everything he wants.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:25 PM

5. What big "deal" did the Dems get in 2001?

I just remember them rolling over for Bush less than 5 months after he took office and the media talked about Bush's mandate.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:27 PM

6. details matter.

i can easily imagine deals that are worse than the cliff, and others that are better.

having said that, i suspect that the politics of the situation favor going over the cliff and aiming for a deal around late january. the public already blames republicans, and obama has the state of the union address coming up. he can really make his case then if there's still no deal, so republicans are more pressure than democrats, i think.

this is ESPECIALLY true if congress does pass a mini-deal extending the shrub cuts for those under some threshold and perhaps delaying the spending cuts.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:30 PM

7. Depends on the deal

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:37 PM

9. What would be a deal breaker for you?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:49 PM

12. Good question

 

What bothers me most of all, however, are the possible cuts to SS.

It has NOTHING to do with the budget, and cuts will start to destroy it.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:52 PM

13. Absolutely agree.

No cuts to SS, and yes, chained CPI is a cut. Set this precedent, Repugs will dismantle it bit by bit very quickly.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:52 PM

14. i will be happy when


we go off the cliff and then wait for the new members of congress to come in and make law.

wonder if the boner will retain his position? cantor is breathing down his neck. might make for interesting political theater.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:53 PM

15. I don't really care one way or the other. Either way, SS will be thrown under the bus. If there is

 

a deal now, cutting SS will be the one thing they agree on. If they kick the can down the road, SS will be the first sacrificial offering on the menu.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:21 PM

33. When will those cuts occur, can you be more specific? You seem very sure.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:08 PM

17. I really don't expect a deal.

It was reported if the senate can't come to an agreement of terms, then Reid was to draft a "basic package" to put before the floor for an up or down vote. That's what this is all about, putting the Republicans on the spot for every one in the country to witness their failure. There is no deal Reid and McConnell are going to be able to agree on. Even if they did there's not one they could agree on that would then pass the House.

I'm not getting myself worked up over this one yet. I expect we're going over the cliff and there will be much finger pointing and shame casting toward the Republicans who did nothing to stop it.

In other words, I believe we're giving the Republican's a refresher course on how politics are played. But, this is all my speculation and we shall see.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:18 PM

18. It depends on the deal.

If it makes any cuts to Social Security Medicare or Medicaid then Hell No. I'm not for any deal that hurts poor and middle class Americans in order for the richest Americans can keep their tax cuts. Austerity is not the answer we should be spending money to stimulate the economy through job programs that rebuilding our infrastructure. If there needs to spending cuts the military and the oil companies should take the most of those cuts.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:08 PM

20. IT

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:17 PM

32. omg LOL

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:29 PM

21. I doubt seriously there will be a deal

We are just going to go over the cliff, and frankly, I think the notion of the "cliff" is gross hyperbole.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:37 PM

22. I feel like the damage has been done already

Coming up with a deal seconds before Jan 1 isn't going to inspire confidence in anyone. Investors and the world already know that our system is broken due to a few delusional teabaggers.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:31 AM

29. I disagree.

If they make a deal the publicity will all be how they bravely avoided the cliff and what wonderful negotiators they are.

And most of the public will buy it because its most of what they will hear.

Even if we go over We will hear all the wonderful things the they are doing to prevent it from making things worse.

The news we hear on DU is not the news the general public hears.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 07:13 AM

31. The system was broken long before those idiots were created. n/t

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:00 PM

23. Not me.

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:54 AM - Edit history (1)

I thought the payroll tax holiday was a mistake at the time. Good riddance.

The Bush tax cuts were another abomination. Let them go away and make the Republicans oppose a middle class tax cut after the 1st.

The sequester at least cuts military spending. Sadly, I expect bipartisan restoration of most of the military spending- sooner rather than later. Delaying the restoration may be a useful bargaining chip.

The AMT patch will be passed with bipartisan support.

The Medicare "doc fix" will be passed with bipartisan support.

Not renewing extended unemployment benefits will spread a lot of misery, but at some point you have to stop paying the blackmailers and that time is past due. A deal that renewed extended unemployment benefits and nothing else would be more than good enough.

Avoiding any or all of the potential short-term damage to the economy resulting from "going over the cliff" is not worth the long-term misery that would be inflicted by implementing chained CPI or increasing the age for Medicare eligibility.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:27 AM

26. I'd rather see the GOP dealt with. n/t

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:57 AM

27. fuck the GOP

go over the cliff

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:26 AM

28. If a deal passes, it's going to be pretty biased towards the GOP.

And will encourage them to do this for every other important issue.

When someone starts playing a game of chicken with you it's not wise to let them win.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 05:56 AM

30. Not enough info to know what to do....

Everything is supposed to be on the table, but the only talk is about tax rates and reduction of benefits for citizens. What happened to the defense cuts? Hundreds of billions wasted there. And if we go past Dec 31st, who gets affected and how much of a problem to put things back in order? Not enough answers, mainly because the Repukes are willing to play politics even if the economy gets destroyed.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:23 PM

34. I'm not sure I want to see a deal with the 2012 democrats. n/t

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:24 PM

35. If the Democrats had put some Democratic Positions On-the-Table,

I would be more than happy to start the Horse Trading.

As it stands, the Democratic position is:
How Much do we give the Republicans?

This is a shamefully pathetic position from which to Start the Dealing
considering that the President & The Democratic Party WON a HUGE Popular Mandate in November.
The Party leadership has set the table, and any "DEAL" at this point will only benefit the Republicans.

I hate to be the guy saying this,
but we are better off at this point if the Democrats do NOTHING.
The last 60 days have been a Monumental Fuck Up by the Democratic Party Leadership.
Wasted Days & Wasted Nights.

What Obama and the Democratic Party Leadership FAILED to do over the last 2 months was to put a Democratic Party Vision for the Future
On-The-Table.

Instead, the Whole Fucking Debate is about what the Republicans want to do,
and How MUCH Obama is going to let them do.

This is NOT a "VICTORY" for a President who WON in November with a MANDATE from the People.
NOW, if Obama meets Boehner 1/2 Way to Plan B,
THAT will be touted as a WIN.

WHERE is the DEMOCRATIC PARTY VISION for The FUTURE?
THAT should have been On-the Table on Day ONE, the focus of all the TV Talking Heads and the focus of the National Dialog,
NOT Boehner and Plan B.

Things like:
*Lowering the Retirement Age to 62

*Raising the CAP

*EFCA

*Stop Federal Funds to Private Universities,
and DOUBLING or TRIPLING the funding for Public Universities

*Forgiveness of Student Loans

*Stop Subsidies to Oil Corporations

*MORE regulation of Wall Street

*EXPAND Medicare

*MASSIVE Jobs Programs, a la Republican President Dwight Eisenhower

*Medicare? allow Medicare to negotiate prices with Drug Companies

*Transaction Taxes for Stock Trades

*VAT Taxes or 15% Tariffs for Imported Manufactured Goods (like Europe)

*Fair Competition Regulations (Sherman Act)
that let Mom & Pop (small locally owned businesses) compete with WalMart
(Big Boxes) on a level playing field

*Not JUST let the Bush Tax Cuts expire, but go back to the Pre-Reagan Tax Rates

ALL that and MORE should have been put On-the-Table on DAY ONE.
THEN say to Boehner and the Republicans....
"OK. NOW lets talk compromise."

As it stands NOW,
with ONLY Losses for the Democratic Party possible in any "deal",
I say, NO DEAL,
and weep over another Missed Opportunity.

Oh what could have been.



"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


Solidarity!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:32 PM

36. ...

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:58 PM

37. Depends what the deal is

A deal is only preferable to going over the cliff if it covers the debt ceiling for at least 2 years, thus taking away leverage the GOP has to force draconian spending cuts.

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