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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:07 PM

 

Journal News To List More Gun Permit Holders After Uproar

Journal News To List More Gun Permit Holders After Uproar

By Noreen O'Donnell

NEW YORK, Dec 29 (Reuters) - A suburban New York newspaper that sparked an uproar among gun enthusiasts by publishing names and addresses of residents holding pistol permits is now planning to publish even more identities of permit-toting locals.

Further names and addresses will be added as they become available to a map originally published on Dec. 24 in the White Plains, New York-based Journal News, the newspaper said.

The original map listed thousands of pistol permit holders in suburban Westchester and Rockland counties just north of New York City.

Along with an article entitled "The gun owner next door: What you don't know about the weapons in your neighborhood," the map was compiled in response to the Dec. 14 shooting deaths of 26 children and adults in Newtown, Connecticut, editors of the Gannett Corp.-owned newspaper said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/29/journal-news_n_2380058.html

52 replies, 2676 views

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Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply Journal News To List More Gun Permit Holders After Uproar (Original post)
MightyMopar Dec 2012 OP
BanTheGOP Dec 2012 #1
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #11
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #51
bongbong Dec 2012 #2
SpartanDem Dec 2012 #5
bongbong Dec 2012 #19
SpartanDem Dec 2012 #24
MightyMopar Dec 2012 #33
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #26
Orrex Dec 2012 #41
bongbong Dec 2012 #47
spin Dec 2012 #27
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #37
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #8
bongbong Dec 2012 #20
Robb Dec 2012 #31
Sadiedog Dec 2012 #3
Barack_America Dec 2012 #9
Orrex Dec 2012 #42
femmocrat Dec 2012 #4
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #16
femmocrat Dec 2012 #17
Skittles Dec 2012 #50
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #6
MightyMopar Dec 2012 #34
Robb Dec 2012 #35
Barack_America Dec 2012 #7
Robb Dec 2012 #10
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #23
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #12
X_Digger Dec 2012 #14
bongbong Dec 2012 #21
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #25
bongbong Dec 2012 #48
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #52
Orrex Dec 2012 #43
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #13
lynne Dec 2012 #15
MightyMopar Dec 2012 #18
bongbong Dec 2012 #22
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #38
spin Dec 2012 #28
Robb Dec 2012 #30
spin Dec 2012 #44
MightyMopar Dec 2012 #32
Sadiedog Dec 2012 #36
Berserker Dec 2012 #46
spin Dec 2012 #45
Skittles Dec 2012 #29
datasuspect Dec 2012 #39
slackmaster Dec 2012 #40
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #49

Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:15 PM

1. Good. We need to know EXACTLY where the GOP lives for future campaigns.

 

We have to make sure that anyone with a death instrument permit must know they support the killing of children, and we will call them out on it with pamphlets and other mailers. This is how democracy must proceed: accountability of actions. Owning a weapon of mass destruction, such as a handgun, qualifies as a legitimate recipient for receiving political discourse. We should be able to convert many GOP to Democrats with this campaign process.

NOTE: Any misuse of the map MUST NOT BE TOLERATED. It is one thing to identify and call out their politics vis a vis their ownership of domestic mass destruction instruments of death. It is quite another to actually do anything that would undermine their safety or well-being. That should only be left to the rethugs. IN addition, it will not allow our conversion process to unfold with reasonable success, and may even backfire.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:36 PM

11. The voter registration data is already available

There are many party member who also own firearms.

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Response to BanTheGOP (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:57 PM

51. What. You think only republican NRA members own guns? That is delusional.

How can you seriously think that? Do you really think that gun ownership implies rw teabaggerism - or any other political proclivity?

As far as pamphlets and mailings - when I see religious, republican, credit card, mail order catalogs, cable company mailings or any other junk mail it does not even get read. It goes in the trash. Do you really think direct mailing is an effective use of resources?

There are some good gun regulation reforms being suggested. Some that might work. Then again there has been a lot of hateful crap proposed, and targeting people for harassment seems a stupendously counterproductive proposal.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:20 PM

2. Brave folks

 

The Delicate Flowers are scared little cowards. That's why they need their Precious to feel safe. And scared people tend to lash out very emotionally when they feel threatened, like a simple animal working off instinct.

Stay safe, Journal News staff.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:50 PM

5. Or people might not like their information being published without their permission.

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

19. Gun registrations

 

If not public info, need to be made public, so that people can keep themselves & their children safe by keeping them away from the Delicate Flowers.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:34 PM

24. You want to treat gun owner like sex offenders?

that's extreme to say the least

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:15 AM

33. All these dead kids all over the place and these lines to buy military weapons is also very extreme

 

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Response to bongbong (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:39 AM

26. As I asked elsewhere in this thread

If you are so concerned about it, why wouldn't you just ask if someone owns guns before letting your children play there? Or why not just let the kids play at your house? Are you seriously telling me that the only way to find out if someone is a gun owner is to publish their name and address in the newspaper?

And what is the logical extension of this idea? Do you avoid driving through neighborhoods where gun owners live? Do you boycott gun owner's businesses--you realize they may have one at their place of business. Do you cut off all contact with people when you learn they own guns? Do you move if you find out gun owners live near you?

I'm seriously asking--what exactly do you do with this information?

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:26 PM

41. I have asked a similar question before

In the Guns! Guns! Guns! forum I asked how people would respond to if a parent asked about guns in the home before letting the respective children play together in that home. To my pleasant surprise, several of the replies were quite reasonable. A sizable number were of the "mind your own business" variety, though a few were along the lines of "I'd tell them to go screw themselves," and "I'd ask if they keep dangerous cleaning chemicals under their sink."

In short, even a law-abiding a gun owner might not feel any reason to divulge this information, even to address reasonable and legtimate concerns. However, I see no problems with making this information public.

If foreclosures and police reports are a matter of public record, I don't see why gun permits should be afforded some privileged, top secret protections.

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #26)


Response to bongbong (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:47 AM

27. Your idea will not work in Florida as firearm registration is illegal. (n/t)

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:00 PM

37. Individuals or organizations that legally obtain publicly available information and publish

or disseminate that information are breaking no laws, nor do they need to ask anyone's permission to do so.

People may be upset, but one has no reasonable right to privacy about any personal information in publicly available databases.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:35 PM

8. The News Journal staff are who are wilting at this point

Some of the stories leaking out of there are scary...

Drop in subscriptions, advertiser boycotts and the social media pressure are all taking their toll

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

20. Taking their toll

 

Similar to newspapers in the south in the 1960s that published pro-civil-rights articles.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:20 AM

31. Snap, I say.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:19 PM

3. I am a lifelong Democrat and I have owned guns in the past

this does not make me a criminal or someone who deserves to be treated as one. I honestly do not understand the purpose in publishing this list. It is just a way to create problems for law abiding folks. How in the world do you think that this will help anyone?

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:36 PM

9. I see it as a clever counteraction to the NRA's response.

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:36 PM

42. You're not being treated as a criminal

The name of the person who owns your house is public record; is that person being treated as a criminal?

The name of a crime victim is often reported in the news; is that person being treated as a criminal?

I hold an insurance license, and my name and license status are a matter of public record; am I being treated as a criminal?


How in the world do you think that this will harm anyone?

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:43 PM

4. I can see a plus and a minus.

Is it a matter of public record? If so, there is no reason not to publish it. Parents would probably appreciate knowing if there was a gun in a house before sending their children there to play.

OTH, it could tip off thieves to homes that were un-armed.

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Response to femmocrat (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:07 PM

16. ummm

Parents would probably appreciate knowing if there was a gun in a house before sending their children there to play.


Why wouldn't they just ask?

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:20 PM

17. I don't know! Good point!

I guess it could be awkward or a touchy subject. (I don't have young children.)

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Response to femmocrat (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:47 PM

50. also, there are illegal guns everywhere

so the "list" still does not mean there is no gun in the house

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:33 PM

6. Gluttons for retribution they are

This time it might include criminals and DMV records which are also all public record to some extent.

They should be considering the impact of this on employees, especially those not directly making content decisions. The subscription cancellations, the advertiser boycotts, and the social media pressure are all taking their toll.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:16 AM

34. Any links to that?

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:18 AM

35. Head south, take a left at his wallet. (nt)

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:34 PM

7. Good for them.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:36 PM

10. Good on them. Meet thuggery with additional ink.

The pen is mightier, etc.

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Response to Robb (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:31 PM

23. Its ink vs ink

And the journalist thugs are feeling some serious heat

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:41 PM

12. Something interesting I found in the original article

The article starts by recounting the attack by Richard V. Wilson on his neighbor, then goes on to mention that his cache of weapons included 2 unregistered handguns. So, my question is...why did an article talking about the need to know who has guns and who doesn't (the justification for publishing the map), start with a story about a person who (presumably) wouldn't have shown up on this list of handgun owners at all?

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:44 PM

14. Shhh, don't get in front of a good emotional story with facts.

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:07 PM

21. LOL

 

> cache of weapons included 2 unregistered handguns.

Sounds like he also had registered weapons, by your verbiage. If true, then people could have been warned away from this particular Delicate Flower before he murdered somebody.

The emotional reaction by the Delicate Flowers on this issue illustrates their fearfulness. Their need for guns to face the world is even more obvious from their reactions to this event.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:28 AM

25. Not my verbiage...

It's from the original story about Wilson. From the story:

They searched his home and found a "large volume" of firearms, including two unregistered handguns, and a stash of ammunition.

They don't mention the exact weapon that he used to shoot at the victim--but it was from across the street, and was a .22cal--luckily the victim sustained only non-life-threatening injuries.

I can't really speak to emotional reaction, but the ethics of invading people's privacy should not be taken lightly.

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:34 PM

48. Guns

 

> the ethics of invading people's privacy should not be taken lightly.

Guns slaughter thousands of people every year. They need lots and lots of heavy, intrusive regulation. Sorry, Delicate Flowers. I know you're all very, very, VERY scared.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:49 PM

52. I understand that you feel like this is the best possible idea in the world

and all thoughts of "privacy" or "ethics" be damned--but I would be curious to know if you also feel that a newspaper should be allowed to publish the names and addresses of staff and doctors who worked at a clinic that provided abortions?

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Response to Budgies Revenge (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:43 PM

43. Did his cache of weapons also include registered handguns?

If so, then you've kind of answered your own question.

Additionally, the article may be making the (somewhat weak) argument that some registered gun owners might be more likely to possess non-registered guns.

For that matter, it might simply a matter of narrative. If the guy had been arrested while wearing clown makeup and swim fins, they would probably have included that as well, even though it isn't directly relevant to the question of registered firearms.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:43 PM

13. I'm more worried of the ones that they can't list.

Many a gun owner next door, may not be on that list due to how they got the gun.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:59 PM

15. Exactly. Not only is the list totally useless, it could give a false sense of security -

- for those who are relieved to find their neighbors NOT on the list. Yet that doesn't mean the neighbor doesn't have a gun. It just means the neighbor doesn't have a registered gun.

The people on the list are those who have acquired their guns in a legal manner. But the guy next door could easily have an illegal weapon or one that isn't on the list as it was passed down in the family, acquired through military service, purchased in a state where no registration is required, etc.

Total false sense of security. Always assume your neighbors are armed to the teeth.

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Response to lynne (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:23 PM

18. Guns also give a false sense of security, ask the Adam Lanza's mom

 

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:10 PM

22. THe NRA solution to Lanza mother's situation

 

"Every gun owner will have an armed guard when they are sleeping"

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Response to bongbong (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:05 PM

38. But who makes sure the armed guard doesn't snap?

Will you need an armed guard to watch the armed guard?


And then, what about that armed guard?

Who watches him?

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:50 AM

28. I will politely remind anyone who thinks that this is a great idea ...

that a criminal might decide your home is a better target to invade than your neighbor's home if he has a firearm and you don't.

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Response to spin (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:09 AM

30. But the gun folks assure us THEY are now targets.

We need to get out stories straight!

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Response to Robb (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:56 PM

44. Some do. Some don't.

Most people where I live know that I have firearms in the house but that is hardly unusual in a small rural town in northern Florida.

Home invasions are rare here.

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Response to spin (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:12 AM

32. I'm far more scared of legal so called "good" owners than criminals

 

I think most people agree with me and that's why the newspaper published this list. Civilized society will take awhile getting stronger regulations and bans but we can immediately make gun owners pariahs in the community and keep our kids way from their families.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:44 AM

36. Gun owners pariahs?

Wow! I do not own a gun at this time but have in the past. I grew up in a family that hunted and also in a home where gun safety was taught. I agree that no one needs an assault rifle but as with anything there are people here being very extremist! I can respect a goal to eliminate assault rifles but this witch hunting is just as crazy as the NRA talking points.

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Response to Sadiedog (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:30 PM

46. You are correct

 

The extreme on the left is just as bitter and hate filled as the right.

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Response to MightyMopar (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:10 PM

45. The main stream media does its best to promote the idea that all gun owners ...

are extremely dangerous, irresponsible and possibly mentally deranged. People who know few gun owners often buy into this propaganda.

I am not particular concerned about what others believe about me so being considered a "pariah in the community" would have no effect on me. I doubt that it would bother most of the gun owners that I know but it would drive a wedge between those who own firearms and those who don't making any progress on solving gun violence even less likely.

One poster here suggested that all gun owners should be required to wear arm bands or to have a tattoo on their foreheads.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2082770

Perhaps you would agree.



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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:05 AM

29. I do not understand the purpose of this

it is a fascist tactic and I do not approve

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Response to Skittles (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:08 PM

39. enemies lists

 

the hallmark of the fascist.

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Response to MightyMopar (Original post)


Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:46 PM

49. How much is the NRA paying them for this?

That paper is killing any chance at getting any gun reform.

As I have stated in another Thread,
The NRA will use this stupidity on the side of THAT PAPER to strengthen their weak arguments (plural). Remember how the Bush administration used 9-11 as the answer for everything? Well here is the NRA's 9-11 answer! And do you really think the teaparty will let grass grow under their feet on this? Our side will take a pounding on this. The fight for better gun control has now hit a big problem, we just don't know how big at this time.

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