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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 06:59 PM

Drug goes from $50/vial to $28,000/vial. Best Healthcare in the world, Baby!

By ANDREW POLLACK
Published: December 29, 2012

THE doctor was dumbfounded: a drug that used to cost $50 was now selling for $28,000 for a 5-milliter vial.

The physician, Dr. Ladislas Lazaro IV, remembered occasionally prescribing this anti-inflammatory, named H.P. Acthar Gel, for gout back in the early 1990s. Then the drug seemed to fade from view. Dr. Lazaro had all but forgotten about it, until a sales representative from a company called Questcor Pharmaceuticals appeared at his office and suggested that he try it for various rheumatologic conditions.

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” Dr. Lazaro, a rheumatologist in Lafayette, La., says of the price increase.

How the price of this drug rose so far, so fast is a story for these troubled times in American health care — a tale of aggressive marketing, questionable medicine and, not least, out-of-control costs. At the center of it is Questcor, which turned the once-obscure Acthar into a hugely profitable wonder drug and itself into one of Wall Street’s highest fliers.

At least until recently, that is. Now some doctors, insurance companies and investors are beginning to have doubts about whether the drug is really any better than much cheaper alternatives. Short-sellers have written scathing criticisms of the company, questioning its marketing tactics and predicting that its shareholders are highly vulnerable.

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/business/questcor-finds-profit-for-acthar-drug-at-28000-a-vial.html?hpw

Blood. Sucking. Leeches.

118 replies, 18633 views

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Reply Drug goes from $50/vial to $28,000/vial. Best Healthcare in the world, Baby! (Original post)
n2doc Dec 2012 OP
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #1
Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #18
Mariana Dec 2012 #67
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #111
Richard Cleary Dec 2012 #84
Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #86
Clouseau2 Dec 2012 #104
truedelphi Dec 2012 #105
wilt the stilt Dec 2012 #23
malz Dec 2012 #76
pangaia Dec 2012 #24
roguevalley Dec 2012 #25
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #112
roguevalley Jan 2013 #118
drokhole Dec 2012 #77
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #113
ROBROX Dec 2012 #80
Richard Cleary Dec 2012 #83
silvershadow Dec 2012 #97
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #106
silvershadow Jan 2013 #116
green for victory Dec 2012 #103
Grins Dec 2012 #85
arikara Dec 2012 #89
Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #114
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #102
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #107
kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #110
watch the sky Dec 2012 #2
primavera Dec 2012 #27
skepticscott Dec 2012 #32
primavera Dec 2012 #35
MAD Dave Dec 2012 #40
skepticscott Dec 2012 #44
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #54
glowing Dec 2012 #65
MAD Dave Dec 2012 #79
tavalon Dec 2012 #62
JimDandy Dec 2012 #78
WCGreen Dec 2012 #3
underpants Dec 2012 #6
marble falls Dec 2012 #66
underpants Dec 2012 #68
marble falls Dec 2012 #72
SHRED Dec 2012 #70
underpants Dec 2012 #73
marble falls Dec 2012 #74
MADem Dec 2012 #93
Diclotican Dec 2012 #12
sorefeet Dec 2012 #49
Diclotican Dec 2012 #55
green for victory Dec 2012 #63
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #42
Stuart G Dec 2012 #4
mtasselin Dec 2012 #5
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #9
Posteritatis Dec 2012 #47
Warpy Dec 2012 #7
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #8
underpants Dec 2012 #10
Indykatie Dec 2012 #14
snot Dec 2012 #11
Stuart G Dec 2012 #13
YOHABLO Dec 2012 #15
SammyWinstonJack Dec 2012 #41
Joe Bacon Dec 2012 #45
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #59
stillwaiting Dec 2012 #51
CranialRectaLoopback Dec 2012 #16
McCamy Taylor Dec 2012 #17
QED Dec 2012 #19
salin Dec 2012 #22
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #28
subterranean Dec 2012 #48
Dragonfli Dec 2012 #20
salin Dec 2012 #21
Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #26
hedgehog Dec 2012 #29
hedgehog Dec 2012 #30
DCKit Dec 2012 #31
Heathen57 Dec 2012 #33
RainDog Dec 2012 #34
Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #36
RainDog Dec 2012 #37
aint_no_life_nowhere Dec 2012 #38
virgogal Dec 2012 #43
Laffy Kat Dec 2012 #46
physioex Dec 2012 #53
Hoyt Dec 2012 #57
marybourg Dec 2012 #82
Initech Dec 2012 #39
primavera Dec 2012 #52
Demo_Chris Dec 2012 #50
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #56
quadrature Dec 2012 #58
azurnoir Dec 2012 #60
intaglio Dec 2012 #61
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #64
proReality Dec 2012 #69
SHRED Dec 2012 #71
n2doc Dec 2012 #75
raouldukelives Dec 2012 #81
MisterP Dec 2012 #87
leftwingman5225m Dec 2012 #88
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #90
physioex Dec 2012 #94
Nhrtuvdxi Dec 2012 #91
silvershadow Dec 2012 #98
Nhrtuvdxi Dec 2012 #101
silvershadow Jan 2013 #117
tawadi Dec 2012 #92
FarCenter Dec 2012 #95
drmjg Dec 2012 #96
Undismayed Dec 2012 #99
Rainforestgoddess Dec 2012 #100
Divernan Dec 2012 #108
bigbadR Jan 2013 #109
Erose999 Jan 2013 #115

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:11 PM

1. The cost of medicine is outrageous

I have been in an MS experimental drug trial for several years. It finally got approved and I have been informed it will cost 48,000 dollars a year. This is for a pill. The trial ends the end of this year and so will my taking of the drug. Who can afford that price? It is very discouraging.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:42 PM

18. Did it work for you?

I mean, really work for you? Was it much better than anything on the market?

If so, you might want to try fundraisers or begging to get the money to continue. Although I have to say that just that price being charged is enough for me to be turned off.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:55 AM

67. The neat thing about MS drugs

is that you usually don't know if they've worked for you or not. The drugs are supposed to reduce the likelihood of further deterioration. You never know for sure if the drug has actually done so for you or not.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #67)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:29 AM

111. I know right? How wonderful for the drug companies it works that way

BUT I have done more since on this trial than I have done probably in a decade. It has lots of side effects but my life has improved a lot on it. It may be that i just went into a remission since I started taking it or it may be the drug. I have no idea.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:55 PM

84. Beats being dead.

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Response to Richard Cleary (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:19 PM

86. Which was my point.

If the results are good enough with an expensive drug, do all that it takes to use that drug.

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Response to Richard Cleary (Reply #84)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:01 PM

104. Invisible hand not working in health care

This is exactly why healthcare and insurance don't work in the same way as buying Pringles and iPads.

If the alternative is to die, then most people will pay $X, where $X may be their entire net worth plus whatever they can borrow to stay alive. This means whatever drug or treatment they need won't be priced properly because "what the market can bear" will be obscene.

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Response to Clouseau2 (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:32 PM

105. It is worse than that! Sometimes drugs fall out of "copyright" and patent

Protection. And guess what happens then? They are disappeared!

A huge front page article in the San Francisco Chronicle last week detailed how this causes children who are cancer patients to end up not going into remission. It's not that they outright die - they just end up fighting cancer for many more years of their "childhood."



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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:15 PM

23. Ann Romney n/t

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:54 AM

76. She already gave at the office

 

Which is confusing, because she doen't have a job. Fortunately for us, neither does her hubby.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:23 PM

24. Man,they should be paying YOU to tke the drug.!!

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:27 PM

25. my sister's prothetic leg costs 45 grand each time a new one is needed which is every

time your leg changes or you lose or gain weight. She has to fight them every time to pay for it. I LOATHE the parasite industry and their handmaidens, big pharma

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:30 AM

112. That is just a huge amt of money.

Sending a to her

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #112)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:40 AM

118. thank you, darling. I need it tonight.

back to you as well.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:33 AM

77. Not sure if you've seen it yet, but you might be interested in this video/brief lecture:



Not saying what worked for her is sure-fire guaranteed to work for everyone, but figured it was worth knowing about. Here's Dr. Wahls's website, as well:

http://www.terrywahls.com/

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Response to drokhole (Reply #77)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:31 AM

113. Thanks, I have seen it!

It is difficult to maintain a diet like this when it can be difficult to cook anything at times but it is really intriguing. I am so happy for her.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:00 PM

80. MY WIFE HAD HEP "C"

 

The cure in 2004 was INTERFERON which cost $500 per week. this was covered 100% by the state and fed. My wife is cured but I also followed the treatment with COLLOIDAL SILVER, which may have been the cure? There are pharmaceuticals out there which are out of use and cheaper then the NORMAL suggested cures which are recommended by THE COMPANIES versus what can cure.

The world of BIG BROTHER is not so good for the 99%

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:53 PM

83. Prescription Drugs are a ripoff.

I also have MS (since 1996). I am on the drug Copaxone. It costs roughly $4000 a month. If it wasn't for my part D supplemental and copay assistance, I would be dead by now. I agree, the cost is outrageous. If you have a supplemental, get in touch with the Assistance Fund. Maybe they can help with your copay. Thanks to them I am still alive.

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Response to Richard Cleary (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:54 PM

97. I am also on Copaxone. My part D is going to lapse tomorrow.

I will be camping out at the Social Security office I suppose to try to straighten it out. I for sure will not be able to afford the therapy without the part D supplemental. I submitted my stuff online, but haven't heard back yet.

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:46 PM

106. I took that for a year. It was so painful

I got to where even when rotating the sites at the beginning were still inflamed and I started getting divits in my legs which are still there. I love taking this pill but there is no way I can afford it when the trial ends. The fda just approved it. You would think they would want some longer term studies instead of just ending the trials so quickly.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #106)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:54 AM

116. An RN who is a friend of mine living with MS told me she was giving

that drug you're talking about 40 years ago when she started out. Not to MS patients, of course. But she was surprised when we learned of it in a support group meeting. Even went to one of the dinners locally that the drug companies sponsor, just to hear about it (okay, just for free food, and to hear about it). LOL Anyway, the price jumped up with the new approval, yet I don't quite understand why. If it was cheap before, for a different use, how does the new use drive the price sky high?

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Response to Richard Cleary (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:22 PM

103. Check out what this guy has to say....thought provoking

 

re-post from another thread because it's important.


David Healy, Pharmageddon
Has American health care been highjacked by Big Pharma?
http://www.amazon.com/Pharmageddon-David-Healy/dp/0520270983/
(direct link, no commission links allowed here)



This searing indictment, David Healy's most comprehensive and forceful argument against the pharmaceuticalization of medicine, tackles problems in health care that are leading to a growing number of deaths and disabilities. Healy, who was the first to draw attention to the now well-publicized suicide-inducing side effects of many anti-depressants, attributes our current state of affairs to three key factors: product rather than process patents on drugs, the classification of certain drugs as prescription-only, and industry-controlled drug trials. These developments have tied the survival of pharmaceutical companies to the development of blockbuster drugs, so that they must overhype benefits and deny real hazards. Healy further explains why these trends have basically ended the possibility of universal health care in the United States and elsewhere around the world. He concludes with suggestions for reform of our currently corrupted evidence-based medical system.

Check out the reviews. David Healy is probably the leading world expert on SSRI drugs.

Free podcast-interview with Dr. Healy- Jefferson Exchange- October 2, 2012 Phamargeddon
http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/show/jpr/id/2084251

this might be a starting point into understanding why our "health care" system is the way it is.

Something must be done. Does this generation want to give this system to the next? They might not be so happy about that...

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:15 PM

85. $48k vs. the price of Gold...

$48,000 is equal to about 29-ounces of gold.

I don't know the frequency of taking that pill, but I wonder if you weighed a years worth of those pills, would the value of the pills exceed that of gold?

Just curious.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:00 PM

89. This may help.

Scroll to the bottom of the page, there is an ebook on MS. This gentleman researched causes and interventions for a variety of illnesses. They never hit mainstream because he never charged for his results, nor could anyone (pharmaceutical company) make any money off the cures.

He was a university professor in Victoria, I was lucky enough to hear him speak a couple of times. A highly intelligent, kind gentle man and it was a great loss when he passed suddenly. At the time he was working on breast cancer project and never got it finished.

http://www.hdfoster.com/publications

These books are full sized, all the family asks is a small donation which goes to his foundation.

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Response to arikara (Reply #89)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:32 AM

114. Thanks! nt

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:14 PM

102. I posted this a few days ago

and it dropped pretty quickly, but it has to do with the various pharmaceutical patient assistant programs. I don't know if this would be of any help at all but it may be an alternative for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084599

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #102)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:48 PM

107. Thanks but our income is too high to qualify for anything

and not high enough to be able to afford almost 50 grand a year. I appreciate the link to resources though.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 11:38 PM

110. Check to see if the drug company

will subsidise the most or all the cost of the drug. I take Rebif and they subsidize most of it, I pay $50 a month.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:13 PM

2. read this whole article

and it was worth it:

Companies often charge stratospheric prices for drugs for rare diseases — known as orphan drugs — and Acthar’s price is not as high as some. Society generally tolerates those costs to encourage drug companies to develop crucial, possibly lifesaving drugs for these often neglected diseases.

But Questcor did almost no research or development to bring Acthar to market, merely buying the rights to the drug from its previous owner for $100,000 in 2001. And while the manufacturing of Acthar is complex, it accounts for only about 1 cent of every dollar that Questcor charges for the drug


Blood. Sucking. Leeches. Indeed.

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Response to watch the sky (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:35 PM

27. Exactly!

It infuriates me that pharmaceutical companies get credit for research discoveries that are mostly bought from academics working on public research grants. Why would the pharmaceutical industry pay scientists high salaries for decades on the chance that they might discover something revolutionary when it's so much cheaper to simply buy the rights from some underpaid professor with a crew of unpaid student laborers whose years of research finally paid off? The drug company does the marketing and takes the credit and all of the rewards of somebody else's hard work. And for this parasitic service, they're applauded as deliverers of life-saving medications. Talk about adding insult to injury!

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Response to primavera (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:58 PM

32. Not only that, but they control publication

of any studies about the drug, even those at public universities, and squash any that are not favorable.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:02 PM

35. Damn

That's even worse than I thought. I'd say thanks for the additional info, but now I'm even more depressed than when I started!

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Response to primavera (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:13 PM

40. The students that worked on all or portions......

.....of either the synthetic route or the biological testing get absolutely nothing while the professor gets the €£¥$ and all of the spoils.

If public money is used for funding then the drug developed should remain in the public sphere.

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:24 PM

44. It should, but it doesn't

Drug companies fund research groups or entire laboratories to do research at public universities, and then assume control of what comes out of them. It's enormous grant money to fund facilities, equipment and people, so they make the devil's bargain.

In a properly run world, the FDA should require that studies to support the approval of a drug be declared as such beforehand, and the results made public no matter what they are, without the drug companies getting to pick and choose what information gets released.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

54. In a properly run world

we would nationalize all pharmaceutical companies.

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Response to MAD Dave (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 08:53 AM

65. This is one of the things that really upsets me and has kept me from plunging

headlong into getting my masters and Phd... You spend lot's of time working for a professor on some sort of research that the professor is involved in, sometimes you are a T.A. and literally teaching Bio 101 for the professor, then in your "off-time" you can work on the required classes plus your own research that will be decided upon, ultimately, by a panel at the University.. and you better have the answers to every abstract point in your research. If you have done really great, ground-breaking work, thinking, testing, hypothesizing, and its something market desirable, then the University "owns" it, if it's your "professor's study", then the professor owns a piece of the "proceeds". All the while, you are going mind-numbingly into debt. You will finish your degrees, and unless you know someone, are in a valuable "science" (like pharmaceuticals and not benthic ecology), or get a position with a College or University to teach, you will be an over educated fry cook still.

The idea that we need more people who do math and science jobs is whack!!! Everytime I hear a politician assert that we need more math, science, and tech people, I want to scream. There are so many who have trained, like myself, in science or math or tech, and are sitting on the sidelines or unemployment OR are working in professions that do not utilize their specialties. Its a ploy to get cheap labor into the US, a manner in which to denigrate our public schools and Union teachers, and keep pushing the b.s. down our collective throats. Also, if we value science, math, and tech, why in the world did we allow NASA to go away. NASA has actual use and intrigue, yet we let the egg heads go, the Space Coast area in FL has been financially devistated in losing paid, smart, government employees plus all the support staff that helped to run operations.. I know we still have some NASA functions, but allowing private companies to enter into the race to space and putting astronauts on foreign rides. Who would have ever imagined that NASA and the USA would be hitching rides into space aboard Russian space shuttles?

Anyway, the screwing of people out of their work and their mind's work is a disgusting aspect of continued education when one is specializing in science/ math degrees... plus they pay the Universities (well actually loan shark banks) to take their work. It doesn't seem like much of a bargain... Especially when the economy sucks so much.. and it seems that CEO's, banks, upper crust "who you know" types of people are the only one's that have money and literally are insulated from their thievery from and of the US.

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Response to glowing (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:51 PM

79. Me too !

Glowing has it 100% correct here:

"Everytime I hear a politician assert that we need more math, science, and tech people, I want to scream. There are so many who have trained, like myself, in science or math or tech, and are sitting on the sidelines or unemployment OR are working in professions that do not utilize their specialties."

As a science graduates I have been underemployed since the day I graduated. My work has been low pay, unrelated to my speciality or part time. To top it all off now, the employers here in Canada have been preferentially choosing technical school graduates over university graduates for at least 10 years now - further increasing competition for remaining jobs and further lowering wages.

Gen X'ers have taken it for the team for years and this is just another example.

Rant off....for now.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:32 AM

62. I found this out nearly 11 years ago

Horrific and disgusting. I lost all faith in the CDC because of this and I remember writing a blog post that was entitled Losing My Religion. Apropos for a supposed scientific mess actually based in worship and faith rather than solid science.

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Response to watch the sky (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:41 AM

78. No society DOESN'T tolerate those costs.

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

We simply don't know about them til they make the news. They make the news because they are outrageous, unfair and NOT tolerable. And Americans are often charged WAY more for a drug then consumers of that same drug in other countries.

Pharmaceutical costs, and in fact all medical costs, have been hidden from patients through the concerted efforts of insurance companies and the doctors and hospitals themselves. Just try and get the cost of a procedure or surgery from a doctor/hospital beforehand, so you can cost compare. I tried and wasn't able to. Heard everything from "We don't know what the codes are going to be for this thing" to "it varies by insurance." No other industry or product that I can think of doesn't work to get you as accurate a cost/bid as possible, before you purchase it.

So Acthar costs $280 to manufacture? And they charge $28,000 for it. Sickening. Is their argument that R & D accounts for most of that difference? Couldn't they average the R & D costs of all their products and divide it equally among all the products? It's overhead and that's what other businesses do with overhead.

Off rant.

edit for missing words.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:14 PM

3. Drink Cherry juice and the gout will go away...

This is the real reason George Washingtons dad got pissed off when he chopped down that Cherry Tree...

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:24 PM

6. As a gout sufferer I have to agree on the cherry juice

it works wonders

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Response to underpants (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:11 AM

66. It works on my busted up, arthritic knees and keeps me from having to take a prescription ....

from the VA with a literally six foot long side-effects warning form.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:18 AM

68. I found out about a new (to me) supplement at a party yesterday

Diatomaceous Earth (food grade)
http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

check it out

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Response to underpants (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:34 AM

72. I use it in aquarium filters. I can see where there are minerals - I need to read up on it, thanks!

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Response to underpants (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:30 AM

70. Any particular brands? Concentrations? Non-sweetened?

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Response to SHRED (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:36 AM

73. I get organic 100% cherry juice

I don't really know if it is sweetened.

Just a little everyday seems to work and if I feel a flare up coming I will down 8-12 ounces over the course of a day.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:41 AM

74. I like Hansons - unsweetened and undiluted and with no additives. I drink a glass a day and have ..

only occasional pain. The one knee has been broken twice, had the cartlage torn out and an ATL tear. Four different events over about six years. And after twenty year - arthritis in both knees and hip. I can stand to wait tables six days a week for eight hour each day at 63 because of it. If I miss it for a week or so, I get slowed down a lot.

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Response to underpants (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:17 PM

93. I understand it helps even with simple arthritis--you have to get the quality stuff, though,

not the cheap "cherry flavored" sugary junk. http://www.livestrong.com/article/529000-black-cherry-juice-arthritis/

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:29 PM

12. WCGreen

WCGreen

If that been possible I would have been doing that - instead of taking a pill every morning and evening (not exactly glad with pills) but if the pill can make the gout go away and most of the pain not coming back I'm happy to take the pill..

But then again I am not paying all the cost, for the medicine - rather 1/3 of the cost - I am living in a country where we have a public founded health care system...

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:08 PM

49. COLCHICINE

For 2 months I was in the worst pain ever 24/7 GOUT. The idiot doctor had me taking colchicine and alleperinol together during an attack. Huge NO NO. The internet said take one colchicine pill every hour until attack is gone. Five hours later I was crying and dancing totally pain free and it has never come back. I did the same thing with a buddy at the job site. He was fucked up in pain couldn't tie his shoe. At lunch I went home got him five colchicine pills, the same thing happened to him, totally pain free. I have never changed diet or anything and the gout has never returned. I wish you gout sufferers would try it and let me know if I'm nuts or not. They are an old school pill and very cheap. I think they have made another rackett out of gout.

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Response to sorefeet (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:33 PM

55. sorefeet

sorefeet

I know - I'm using colcisine myself(or at it is named in norwigian Kolkisin NAF) it hold the gout away - and me on the feet at least... Before that I had many years where the gout was coming back, and almost getting me over the river in pain... The only way to make it goes away, for a little while was taking enough pain killers to make a elephant sleep.. And that is not healthy at all... It makes not exactly friends with your lever and kidneys...

No, you are not nuts about using this medicine - it works at least for me - and possible for others too... And it is better to take a simple pill - and be able to walk as a normal man - rather than have this horrible attacks who make a grown man crie... It is worse than a broken arm or a foot is you ask me..

Diclotican

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Response to sorefeet (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 05:01 AM

63. COLCHICINE meets the FDA

 

No more cheap Colchicine...

Marketing exclusivity in the United States

As a drug predating the FDA, colchicine was sold in the United States for many years without having been reviewed by the FDA for safety and efficacy. In 2009, the FDA reviewed an NDA submitted by URL Pharma and approved colchicine for gout flares, awarding Colcrys a three-year term of market exclusivity, prohibiting generic sales, and increasing the price of the drug from $0.09 to $4.85 per tablet

Numerous consensus guidelines, and previous randomized controlled trials, had concluded that colchicine is effective for acute flares of gouty arthritis. However, as of 2006, the drug was not formally approved by the FDA, owing to the lack of a conclusive randomized control trial (RCT). That year, the FDA started an Unapproved Drugs Initiative, through which they sought more rigorous testing of efficacy and safety of colchicine and other unapproved drugs.

...URL Pharma also received seven years of market exclusivity for Colcrys in treatment of familial Mediterranean fever, under the Orphan Drug Law. URL Pharma then raised the price per tablet from $0.09 to $4.85 and sued to remove other versions from the market, increasing annual costs for the drug to U.S. state Medicaid programs from $1 million to $50 million. Medicare also paid significantly higher costs—making this a direct money-loser for the government. (In a similar case, thalidomide was approved in 1998 as an orphan drug for leprosy and in 2006 for multiple myeloma.)

Colchicine

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Response to WCGreen (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:20 PM

42. +1000

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:19 PM

4. Blood Sucking Leeches are offended........These assholes are far worse..

Whatever the worst is..it is them..This is the perfect examples of them...This story is incredible..

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:20 PM

5. Why

Why isn't this being brought to the attention of the public not that they would care. At least let the public know.

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Response to mtasselin (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:26 PM

9. It is - this is in NYT

but the Limbeciles will tell you that NYT is nowhere near as reliable as Hate Radio.

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Response to mtasselin (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:40 PM

47. Is one of the largest newspapers in circulation somehow not public? (nt)

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:24 PM

7. Holy shit!

We used to use the stuff like crazy on people who couldn't take commercial steroid drugs. ACTHar was the pituitary hormone that stimulated the adrenal glands to release more endogenous cortisol.

Raising the price that high should be illegal.

Fucking sociopaths who did this are probably sleeping like babies at night, too.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:25 PM

8. But they're a corporation! Can't interfere with them!

Besides their lobbying org, PHARMA, bought a nice chunk of the government. Who's going to stop them?

Is anyone else surprised that there hasn't been a rash of bombings at drug & insurance companies in the last 20 years?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:28 PM

10. I process copays daily for drugs like this

they start at about $1,200 for, basically, Viagra to $6,800 (this it the total drug price mind you) for the most common drug to $12,000 to $40,000 for the most expensive ones. The most expensive ones tend to be Med B drugs so the copay is 20% while the $6,800 drug tends to be Med D so the donut hole is $2,300 for the first fill and about $900 for the second - 5% claims tend to be about $340 or so---that is the copay per month.

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Response to underpants (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:33 PM

14. New Biotech Drugs Are a Big Cause of Escalating Medical Costs

Whole companies are often supported by a single drug. Annual costs of $30K for one of the treatments is not unusual. In my line of work I get monthly notices of new drugs coming to market and rarely do I see one of these specialty drugs that cost less than $2,000 a month.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:29 PM

11. This is why the necessities of life should not be left to for-profits;

otherwise, they've got us over a barrel and they know it.

Healthcare and other basic infrastructure should either be owned and operated by the gov't or at least heavily regulated.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:33 PM

13. Read this article..almost unbelieveable...but this company does what it does...and within the law..

I must add..everyone in this country should read this...Unregulated greed...

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:35 PM

15. Thank you Congress .. no capability for negotiating on drug pricing and...

for not allow imports from other countries like Canada. WE are the dumbest fucking nation of people on the planet. Because we continue to allow these greedy ass holes to gouge us.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:14 PM

41. +1000!

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:29 PM

45. Thank You Billy Tauzin!

AND FUCK PhRMA!

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Response to Joe Bacon (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:25 AM

59. +1

PB

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:47 PM

51. It takes a large number of Americans just not giving a damn about anyone except themselves...

...to allow this system to remain in place.

People have to just not care.

Thankfully, the people here at DU for the most part do care.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:37 PM

16. Meh ...

 

The important thing is that we passed that awesomeness from the bastion of progress thinking the Herirage Foundation known as ORomneyCare. That should solve the problem.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:38 PM

17. Pig brains are suspected as one source of "mad cow" disease.

I would not let someone inject me with purified pig pituitary if they paid ME $28,000.

More on CJD the human form of mad cow disease:

The disease has also been shown to result from use of human growth hormone obtained from the pituitary glands of persons who died from Creutzfeldt–Jakob Disease, though the known incidence of this cause is (as of April 2004) quite small. The risk of infection via cadaveric HGH in the US ceased when the medication was withdrawn in 1985.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creutzfeldt–Jakob_disease

Get that? We no longer inject human pituitary because of the risk of infection. But we will inject our kids with pig pituitaries--and pay $28,000 for the privilege---even though the pigs may have been fed infected animal parts. And I would not rely on pork industry reports that the pigs you eat are safe and healthy, because pigs get slaughtered young, before they would show signs of disease.




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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:52 PM

19. Why does one pharmacy charge $320 and another $10 for the same drug?

This happened to me recently. I dropped off a prescription at Walgreens and intended to return later to pick it up. She pharmacist called me and told me it was $320 because that was the price Walgreens had negotiated with my insurance company. She suggested I try Costco and, when I went to pick up the prescription from her, she called Costco to price check. $10 with my insurance. I asked her why the difference - she said sometimes it's a negotiated amount, sometimes the pharmacy eats the difference as a loss leader.

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Response to QED (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:12 PM

22. lame excuse - most companies don't take a $310 loss as a "loss leader"

I love Costco - but don't think the explanation is they are choosing to lose $310 dollars each time the particular drug prescription is filled in order to entice some extra spending at the store (which would be far less than the loss.)

Some business is syphoning a lot of profit off of this arrangement: the pharma company, the insurance company or Walgreens - or perhaps a combiiation of all three.

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Response to QED (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:37 PM

28. in canada the government negotiates with

The pharmaceuticals. So our prices are fair. Health care is a right and not for profit. I am thankful.to live here. We have no death panels.

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Response to QED (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:50 PM

48. Drug pricing makes even less sense than airline fares.

For example, you would think the price of an established drug would come down after the patent expires and generic versions become available, right? Wrong! In the case of Imitrex, which I take for migraines, the opposite has occurred. It used to be around $22 a tablet at Costco, but the last time I checked it was over $35! (I've switched to the generic, which is less than 1/10 the price of the brand-name drug.)

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:03 PM

20. That sounds uniquely American! Just like we were told we wanted

Thank Gawd the Heritage Foundation saved us with such great solutions.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:07 PM

21. a 100% increase in price would be $100 per same amount.

This represents a 550% increase in cost of an already developed drug. The excuse of cost of r & d is not relevant. This is not Adam Smith's capitalism. It is Ayn Rand's - on steroids.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:33 PM

26. My doctor believes there is a treatment for my

small fiber sensory neuropathy, an extremely painful condition for which there is no cure. Unfortunately, you need 1 treatment a day for 4 days, then once every other month for life. Here in America it cost $15,000 per treatment which is administered by IV and takes 20 minutes. They are big on treatments, the only research searching for a cure is paid for by the government. I am sure these are things that they want cut! I really don't like these greedy, heartless bastards!!!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:38 PM

29. Past time to have governmnet manufacturing orphan drugs - if

only in competition with private firms! We have publicly owned utilities!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:40 PM

30. My insurance has been screwed up for 2 months now -

the company switched computer operating systems and we went down the memory hole -

our druggist is supplying us our normal drugs and is willing to wait until things get straightened out with the insurance company -

still - I'm skipping doses of some of my less vital drugs for my chronic diseases.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:47 PM

31. "Short-sellers have written scathing criticisms of the company..."

 

That said, why don't they just inject pure platinum? It'd be cheaper.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:00 PM

33. I cannot think of

a better reason to push for single payer health care. If everyone refused to use those drugs where the company is gouging far beyond costs, the company would think twice. They should have to prove that any kind of increase was justified, or the drug would not be paid for.

I'm all for profit as long as it is justified. Sometimes though it is just pure greed, and a total lack of empathy for their fellow man.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:01 PM

34. Marijuana is a virtually FREE help for inflammation and arthritis

Doctors should grow their own and give it to patients.

FUCK BIG PHARMA, BIG BANKS, AND ALL THE REST OF THEM.

I'm so sick of this shit.

Grow some from Granny...if you live in a legal state.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:03 PM

36. Antidepressants to treat grief? Psychiatry panelists with ties to drug industry say yes

What Americans on drugs (and their industry-funded drug cartel suppliers, both legal and illegal) are ignoring is the fact that a report was once issued by prominent psychologists that a majority of people in the world who are "clinically depressed" have reason to be depressed. Because their lives and/or their communities suck. (That wasn't the clinical terms used)

Antidepressants to treat grief? Psychiatry panelists with ties to drug industry say yes

It was a simple experiment in healing the bereaved: Twenty-two patients who had recently lost a spouse were given a widely used antidepressant. The drug, marketed as Wellbutrin, improved “major depressive symptoms occurring shortly after the loss of a loved one,” the report in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry concluded.

When should the bereaved be medicated? For years, the official handbook of psychiatry, issued by the American Psychiatric Association, advised against diagnosing major depression when the distress is “better accounted for by bereavement.” Such grief, experts said, was better left to nature. But that may be changing.

In what some prominent critics have called a bonanza for the drug companies, the American Psychiatric Association this month voted to drop the old warning against diagnosing depression in the bereaved, opening the way for more of them to be diagnosed with major depression — and thus, treated with antidepressants.

The association itself depends in part on industry funding, and the majority of experts on the committee that drafted the new diagnostic guideline have either received research grants from the drug companies, held stock in them, or served them as speakers or consultants.

Drug companies have shown an interest in treating patients who have recently lost a loved one, having sponsored and published the results of at least three trials in which the bereaved were treated with antidepressants, including the Wellbutrin study.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:06 PM

37. Marijuana study: eases pain AND suppresses disease

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/33376.php

There is anecdotal evidence that cannabis can provide pain relief for people with rheumatoid arthritis (RA), and in a recent survey 155 (16%) of 947 people who obtained cannabis on the black market for medicinal reasons said they did so to obtain relief from symptoms of RA. However, this study in Rheumatology journal, led by David Blake, Professor of Bone and Joint Medicine at the Royal National Hospital for Rheumatic Diseases (RNHRD), Bath, and the University of Bath, UK, is the first randomised controlled trial to investigate the effect of a CBM on RA. It is published online today (Wednesday 9 November).

In the double-blind trial, the researchers randomised 31 patients to receive the CBM and 27 the placebo. The CBM (brand name: Sativex) was in the form of an easy-to-use mouth spray that patients could administer themselves up to a maximum of six doses a day. The CBM consisted of a blend of whole plant extracts, standardised for content, that delivered approximately equal amounts of two key therapeutic constituents from the cannabis plant: delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD). Mouse studies have shown that THC and CBD have anti-inflammatory effects, and that CBD blocked progression of RA and produced improvements in symptoms.

Dr Ronald Jubb, Consultant Rheumatologist, at the University Hospital Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust, UK, said: "Patients had a baseline assessment at the beginning of the trial and then were randomised to receive either the CBM or placebo. Patients only took the doses in the evening in order to minimise possible intoxication-type reactions. The starting dose was one actuation within half an hour of retiring, and this was increased by one actuation every two days to a maximum of six doses according to individual response over a period of two weeks. Stable dosing was then maintained for a further three weeks."

The researchers found that in comparison with the placebo, patients who had taken the CBM had statistically significant improvements in pain on movement, pain at rest, quality of sleep, inflammation (measured by a Disease Activity Score involving 28 joints - DAS 28) and intensity of pain (measured by the Short-Form McGill Pain Questionnaire SF-MPQ).

--------

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=4560#research

Cannabis has a demonstrated ability to improve mobility and reduce morning stiffness and inflammation. Research has also shown that patients are able to reduce their usage of potentially harmful Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) when using cannabis as an adjunct therapy.

Medical researchers at Hebrew University in Jerusalem found that when Cannabidiol is metabolized, one result is the creation of an acid with potent anti-inflammatory action comparable to the drug indomethacin, but without the considerable gastrointestinal side effects associated with that drug.

In addition, when the body metabolizes tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), one of cannabis’ primary components, it produces a number of related chemicals. At least one of these metabolites has anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects. By modifying this metabolite, researchers at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center have produced a synthetic carboxylic acid known as CT-3 (also called DMH-11C, chemical name dimethylheptyl-THC-11 oic acid), which is more powerful than the natural metabolite itself, and thus can be given in smaller doses. Animal tests found CT-3 effective against both chronic and acute inflammation, and it also prevented destruction of joint tissue from chronic inflammation. The long safety record of marijuana – no one has ever died of an overdose – and the fact that a metabolite with the desired anti-inflammatory effect is produced in the body when marijuana is used, strongly suggest that safe and effective anti-inflammatory drugs may be developed from cannabinoids.

In addition, CT3 has demonstrated analgesic effects in animals. In some cases the dose-dependent effect of THC was equivalent to morphine, but with a much greater duration of action.

-------

And while I'm at it with the "fuck yous" - same to ANY politician that tries to continue to enforce prohibition on the American public so that big pharma can piss on patients.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:07 PM

38. Every time I go to the doctor now I see an army of young women

in high heels and short skirts pulling two-wheel carriages behind them with briefcases filled with sample drugs. In medical buildings they seem to out-number the patients. There's never been a time lately when I haven't seen them. They are the marketing reps for drug companies trying to get doctors to switch over to their brands. Why are they necessary? Don't doctors read medical journals to understand the latest drugs? How can they let a non-physician talk them into what drug to use on their patients?

When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s I never noticed these masses of people descending on doctors offices.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:23 PM

43. They are called "detailers" and they are all over,as you said.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:36 PM

46. They're bringing lunch or other goodies to the docs and staff.

I've worked at a few clinics and some departments got a free lunch EVERY DAY. The reps would also deliver Starbucks or bagels in the morning. Of course, they also dropped off "free" samples of whatever drugs they happened to be pushing. I figured if the drug companies were spending that much money on just one clinic, they must have to mark up the pharmaceuticals enormously and pass it on to the consumer.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:57 PM

53. Yup.....

They find the most photogenic people to represent the company. The most amazing part is how doctors can easily be persuaded to prescribe the most expensive version of a medication when you hand out free dinner coupons or trinkets like pens, and notepads.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:45 PM

57. Sadly, this is how a lot of docs keep up with new meds. They do get samples

which help patients try the drugs.

And, patients often demand the "newest" drugs that aren't really any better than older proven stuff.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:34 PM

82. They used to be only men, under the theory that only men had

the gravitas to give advice to doctors. Eventually woman started to bring suits to gain access to these relatively well-compensated jobs and it turned out that - surprise! - doctors gave better access to attractive young women than they previously had to the men. So, no surprise, armies of attractive young women. The new "stewardesses", I guess. What will happen as they age? Oh wait, Pfizer has recently announced a 20% reduction is sales force.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:09 PM

39. Holy shit - the health care industry really doesn't give a shit.

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Response to Initech (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:54 PM

52. The key word there is "industry"

I suspect most actual health care professionals do give a shit; it's the administrators and bean counters and the business side of medicine that fucks things up.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:47 PM

50. It's a business

 

It's a business. Their job is to make money for their investors and for themselves. If someone invests into a company the expect and demand a ruthless quest for profit and the maximum return on the investment. Business is business, that's ALL these companies are doing and that is all that they will ever do.

And that's the problem.

So long as healthcare is a business this is the only thing we will ever see. It will never get better. It will instead accelerate as the more aggressive businesses dominate and displace the less ruthless. And the same rules apply to all aspects of healthcare.

Insurance companies make their money by collecting more from policy holders than the actual healthcare costs. Those who manage to charge the most while paying out the least will inevitably come to dominate the industry. In 2011, for example, the company UnitedHealth posted NET earnings of five billion dollars on 100 billion in revenue. From this, it might appear as if Unitedhealth paid out an amazing amount of money to healthcare providers, right? Remember, the took in 100 billion from policy holders, but the amount paid to healthcare providers was about 50 billion. The rest was overhead, including paying their CEO about 55 million in total compensation -- including stock options and what not. In other words, the extra fifty-billion they collected from policy holders was extra money that patients spent for no reason whatsoever except to keep UnitedHealth in the business of fucking them over.

And those numbers will only get worse. Thanks to Obamacare, these insurance companies now have a everyone -- by law -- in their pool of customers.

The same applies to for-profit hospitals and doctors. Their profit is based upon charging more than treatment costs. And so it goes. Everyone, the insurance companies and drug companies and hospitals, ALL of them are charging more than things cost and pocketting the profits. The better at this they are, the more they can charge and the less they pay out, the more likely they are to crush their competetors (and earn themselves unreal paychecks in the process).

This is, of course, why American's pay so much more than everyone else in the world while receiving so much less.

Sadly, these business owners and investors have friends in government, and for only tiny contributions these Washington friends can be purchased.





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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:38 PM

56. blood sucking leeches indeed. they charge it because they can. that's the only reason.

 

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:07 AM

58. the Doc gets a piece of the action .nt

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Response to quadrature (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:40 AM

60. No they don't get any of the 'action' unless of course they own stock

in the company, in fact what they get is unhappy patients because I'm thinking most insurance companies won't pay for it unless nothing else has worked, it called the formulary system

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:55 AM

61. These people are worse than blood sucking leeches

They are what Harry Lime (the Third Man) would have liked to have become.

Anyway Hirudo medicinalis actually does have a medical use

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 05:04 AM

64. The inevitable, clearly demonstrated, and often predicted outcome of for-profit health care.

 

Drug companies, medical equipment companies, health insurance companies, medical practice partnerships and practitioners, the entire industry, top to bottom. For-profit enterprises and entities have shown us time and time again that they are not capable of self regulation. Until we get this through our heads and take on the job social restructuring that this realization requires, things are just going to get worse and worse until there is no infrastructure left on which to build and we'll have to start from scratch all over again.

There is no middle ground, no compromise that will be effective. As long as the possibility of profit exists, it will be sought at the expense of care.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:28 AM

69. Novartis just raised Sandostatin LAR by over $2000

Locally the charge was over $3,200+/mo., and now it's over $5000/mo.

The same monthly injection medication at a cancer center in a nearby state was nearly $8000/mo. and is now over $10,000/mo.

Same medication, no changes in formula as far as anyone can tell. So how do they justify the increase from last month to this month? Year end profiteering?





Edited to repair wording.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:31 AM

71. link requires a subscription to the NYT

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Response to SHRED (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:46 AM

75. To get around, open link in new window. n/t

Their paywall is simple to get around. Any link from their front page, if opened in new tab or new window, gets around it.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:21 PM

81. Investors and 401k holders profit everytime someone is denied treatment.

Or cannot afford treatment. Must feel odd knowing your retirement dollars are coming from the misery of least among us. Every denied medical claim, every drone strike, every dead whale and every inch lost from the polar ice cap = happiness and security for them and endless suffering for the planet and its inhabitants.
Hope they can wake the hell up before its all gone. Fat chance of that. Keep on doing the Citizens United cha-cha.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:52 PM

87. there's only one solution

give them more money!

(yes, this smilie is needed)

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 02:57 PM

88. simply ridiculous

 

sadly, the prices will probably keep rising

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:04 PM

90. Call me a commie, but health care should not be a for profit enterprise.

Grumpy's health care plan:

Nationalize the pharmaceutical companies.

Abolish the health insurance companies.

Nationalize health care provision.

Tax wealth to pay for health care for all.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:37 PM

94. Commie....

But seriously, I would add the need to spend more of those resources on primary care and avoid the latter expensive care.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:06 PM

91. low dose naltrexone has made major improvement in my inflammatory arthritis and

overall feeling of well being. And it's cheap,too. Also helping people w/cancer, MS, Parkinson's and more. Boosts the endorphins which boosts the immune system with little/no negative side effects.

Worth reading even if you're healthy. http://www.ldninfo.org/ (an abundance of info including how it works)

Not for those that have had transplants and take immunosuppressive medications.

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Response to Nhrtuvdxi (Reply #91)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 11:57 PM

98. I asked my neuro about LDN for my MS. He wouldn't even talk about it for his MS patients.

I know of quite a few who are either on it or have considered it.

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:20 PM

101. So sorry he won't consider it. If you're interested there are groups and lists and you

might be able to find a dr. in your area. I know changing docs. isn't always easy, and I was very fortunate, he didn't hesitate, just ask that I keep him posted. I've been on antibiotic protocol 10 years and LDN 11 months which have had no major flares. I crush and mix myself, $8 script(partD) still have 2 left which will make a full year's worth.

She'll try to help find a doctor ... http://crystalangel6267.webs.com/lookingforanldndr.htm
and has an informative MS blog.
group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_Users/

Good vibes and prayers being sent your way.

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Response to Nhrtuvdxi (Reply #101)

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:58 AM

117. Thank you. I will check them out sometime later. My new year begins with

yet another epic struggle...my part D lapsed, I submitted my application online to the local office in time to not lapse, haven't heard back. All kinds of bills coming in now, and phone calls starting. I can't handle that crap. Yet, I will have to go camp out on the phone or in an office until I get some answers. Shared Solutions told me to call them back if I have troubles, they claim ot have insurance people to help. I don't kow what I will do about this kind of crap when I'm no longer able. They are sucking what little bit of life I supposedly have right out of me. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change, except further decline over time. Why to they do this?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:09 PM

92. Reprehensible

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 04:55 PM

95. We need to reduce funding for medical research, because that is the ultimate driver of costs

Medical research has harvested all the "low hanging fruit" of cheap to make drugs and devices that resulted from an understanding of DNA and molecular biology, advances in biochemistry, digital design tools, and the application of bioinformatics. The fundamental science breakthroughs were done in the '70s and '80s with lots of things coming off patent recently.

Medical research is now spending more and more on drugs and devices that benefit fewer and fewer patients with ever more rare conditions. These result in high R&D, marketing, and implementation costs being spread over few patients.

This is unsustainable.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 05:49 PM

96. Costs are MUCH lower outside the US

Living in Singapore, Almost NO meds are allowed to be sold as a brand name! And advertising, even for most over the counter, is HIGHLY restricted. As well, many meds, including those sold in the US are made in Indonesia.

As a result, the cost to be for 1 month of medication for Diabetes and blood pressure for me is about $150/month. That is about 1/15 the cost of EXACTLY the same meds in the US. When I needed an antibiotic a few months back my co-pay was $1.50 Singaporean ($1.20 US) for the needed 10 day course!

I am sure the companies that make them (the SAME companies that make the US supplies, in most cases) are still making profit (perhaps by overcharging in the US).

I am sure the insurance companies would like to lower their expenses for reimbursing for the high cost as well)

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:03 AM

99. Something needs to be done about these kleptomaniac corporations.

 

I suggest we nationalize them.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:54 PM

100. A tiny googling

shows that there are synthetic versions of this drug available for a much smaller fee that apparently work just as well, available in Japan and Canada. Not approved in the US though.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:06 PM

108. NO R&D costs; Manufacturing costs are ONE cent per dollar!

"Questcor did almost no research or development to bring Acthar to market, merely buying the rights to the drug from its previous owner for $100,000 in 2001. And while the manufacturing of Acthar is complex, it accounts for only about 1 cent of every dollar that Questcor charges for the drug." (from the OP link)

Here's a prime example of how the rich get richer while medical costs are the prime trigger for personal bankruptcies.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 01:33 PM

109. Big Pharm

Time to destroy all power and influence exercised by Big Pharma. Greedy m*****f****** they are. Because of the ban on fluorocarbons as propellents Big Pharma had to come up with another propellent for their inhalers used to treat asthma, this change tripled the price of Albuterol, a life saving inhaler used by asthmatic children and adults. This, is ruthless capitalism that has truly become an abomination. Asthma has increased 100 fold over the years due to the pollution these multinational corporations spew every year into our air, water and soil. Time to put a stop to any and all power and influence these corporate "persons" have on planet earth. Wake up America!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:35 AM

115. The only difference between Big Rx and crack dealers is the lab coats and pocket protectors.

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