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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:12 AM

Victim Blaming. 2012: the year when it became okay to blame victims of sexual assault

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/2012-the-year-when-it-became-okay-to-blame-victims-of-sexual-assault-8432716.html

At Caernarfon Crown Court earlier this month, a 49-year-old man was convicted of raping a teenage girl. Jailing the rapist, the judge told him: “She let herself down badly. She consumed far too much alcohol and took drugs, but she also had the misfortune of meeting you”.

It was the latest in a wave of examples of victim-blaming, a phenomenon that Christina Diamandopoulos, of the Rape Crisis charity, describes as the “myth that women are responsible for men’s sexual behaviour. From this stems the idea that what a woman wears, says, where she goes, or what she does can make her responsible for the crime committed against her.” The problem is compounded by common misconceptions, such as the idea that all rapists are strangers, who attack in dark alleys at night. In fact, Ms Diamandopoulos says, “most rape is committed by partners, ex-partners and men who are known to the woman”.

After news emerged of the sexual abuse of young girls in Rochdale, one victim told Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour: “Quite a few people rang social services: school, the police … even my own dad … basically they told my mum and dad that I was a prostitute and it was a lifestyle choice. And because I was only six months off turning 16, they wasn’t going to do anything.”

Meanwhile, this year’s Edinburgh Fringe Festival made headlines for featuring a high number of jokes about rape and domestic violence. Such “jokes” are also endemic online.“We must wake up to the way that social media enables and magnifies abuse and harassment of women,” Ms Dustin says. The popular social news website Reddit has entire categories dedicated to “raping women”, “hot rape stories”, and “choke a bitch”. And an article on the student website UniLad in January said: “Eighty-five per cent of rape cases go unreported. That seems to be fairly good odds.”



This blame the victim mentality will most likely continue as long as people believe rape is a crime of sexual desire. It is not, these men don't have an overwhelming sexual desire, they wish to dominate, control, and cause pain.

I don't think it's a new phenomenon or isolated to sexual abuse, either. There seems to be a resurgence of victim blaming in many cases surrounding violence against women. The 'war on women' we have witnessed this year has added to this. The linked article discusses the Aiken comments we all know about as well as the Julian Assange case that was dismissed as “bad sexual etiquette”.

It's a sad state of affairs ingrained in culture and society.

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Arrow 98 replies Author Time Post
Reply Victim Blaming. 2012: the year when it became okay to blame victims of sexual assault (Original post)
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 OP
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #1
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #2
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #3
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #4
niyad Dec 2012 #9
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #11
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #36
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #38
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #39
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #41
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #81
seabeyond Dec 2012 #82
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #88
seabeyond Dec 2012 #89
TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #91
Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2012 #96
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #13
s-cubed Dec 2012 #14
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #15
niyad Dec 2012 #16
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #17
seabeyond Dec 2012 #18
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #21
niyad Dec 2012 #20
shintao Dec 2012 #42
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #43
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #44
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #49
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #51
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #52
seabeyond Dec 2012 #53
fishwax Dec 2012 #55
a la izquierda Dec 2012 #57
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #58
a la izquierda Dec 2012 #59
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #61
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #84
a la izquierda Dec 2012 #86
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #63
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #65
duffyduff Dec 2012 #66
Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #67
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #70
Scuba Dec 2012 #71
L0oniX Dec 2012 #72
ornotna Dec 2012 #73
Paladin Dec 2012 #74
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #75
LeftyMom Dec 2012 #77
Stinky The Clown Dec 2012 #78
liberalmuse Dec 2012 #80
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #85
Shadowflash Dec 2012 #87
Skittles Dec 2012 #90
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #94
Skittles Dec 2012 #95
kardonb Dec 2012 #29
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #30
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #40
Heidi Dec 2012 #5
ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2012 #6
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #7
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #47
Mister Ed Dec 2012 #8
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #10
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #12
seabeyond Dec 2012 #19
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #22
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #23
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #25
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #28
seabeyond Dec 2012 #32
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #35
seabeyond Dec 2012 #37
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #50
seabeyond Dec 2012 #54
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #93
seabeyond Dec 2012 #24
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #26
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #27
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #31
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #60
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #97
hughee99 Dec 2012 #33
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #34
Rex Dec 2012 #46
Rex Dec 2012 #45
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #48
seabeyond Dec 2012 #56
In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #62
seabeyond Dec 2012 #68
In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #69
Rex Dec 2012 #83
Behind the Aegis Dec 2012 #64
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #76
liberalmuse Dec 2012 #79
eridani Dec 2012 #92
dkf Dec 2012 #98

Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:18 AM

1. We've become an ass-backward society wherein victims are often blamed and it cuts across

many segments of society, be it health, sexual orientation, robbery, accidents, death by guns and even age. Substitute B for A and almost the same blaming parameters apply.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:21 AM

2. We see it here on DU. So much focus is placed on what the VICTIM could/should have done differently

instead of what the judges, police, social services, society and oh, the PERPETRATOR could/should have done differently.

Even language matters. Jackson Katz wrote a great piece about this:
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/06/02/jackson-katz-violence-against-women-is-a-mens-issue


Katz points out a pattern that has evolved regarding how the media uses passive voice and sentences when reporting gender violence. Using a board in the front of the room, Katz helped make his point by providing the audience with a concrete exercise to illustrate the power of passive voice (see below).

John beat Mary. (active)

Mary was beaten by John. (passive)

Mary was beaten. (passive)

Mary was battered. (passive)

Mary is a battered woman. (active)

"John has left the conversation long ago, while Mary evolves into the active victim," Katz said. "This evolution of victim-blaming is very pervasive in our society, because this is how our whole power structure is set up. We start asking why Mary put herself into a position to be beaten by John."

"If we really want to work on prevention, we need to start asking questions about John, not Mary," Katz said. "We won't get anything done until we start treating these issues as men's issues and shift the paradigm at the cultural level."

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:31 AM

3. Exactly!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:35 AM

4. It's interesting that I stumbled on this piece today.

I was involved in a thread yesterday about a women who was murdered by her husband after years of abuse. The man was sentenced to 5 years, but released on probation. She BEGGED the court to keep him in jail, explicitly stating that he would kill her. And he did. The conversation turned very ugly because of this. Right here. On DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022083334#post4

Sorry, I find that to be seriously fucked up.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:24 AM

9. I could not believe what I was seeing on that thread yesterday, on something that is supposed

to be a fairly progressive board. It was sickening.

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Response to niyad (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:38 AM

11. I know. it's downright shameful.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:11 PM

36. I believe in empowering women as part of the solution

I don't know how things are now but when I was younger in the 70s and 80s self defense classes for women were very prominent. I worked as a nurse and there were a couple of rapes in the parking garage so the hospital itself put on programs teaching women self defense(martial arts) and methods of self protection such as walking out with buddies, being aware of surroundings, walking with keys between fingers to use as defense PLUS they hired more security. There were evening classes all over the place with law enforcement teaching women methods of self defense. Counting on law enforcement does not negate learning ways to possibly avoid being a victim. There is no way I would count on someone coming to my rescue in the situation in the other thread. I was assaulted twice in the 70s and took measures to prevent it ever happening again. I am always aware of my surroundings. I think most women are. That was the point I think some were making in that thread(I know it was my point). It is not blaming the victim. It is discussing how to prevent becoming a victim.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:15 PM

38. When the only point you discuss is what the victim could have done differently, you're blaming the

victim.

And I hope you're not trying to defend the bullshit that went down there.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:23 PM

39. I disagree

There is nothing to be done to help that victim. The discussion moves on how to prevent another woman from becoming a victim. Since the beginning of time women have been victimized and I don't expect to see that change much in my lifetime. Just look at the decision the courts made which led to the situation. In this day and age! All that is left to do is examine solutions that are available to us. One is educating both young men and women, changes in the laws to try and prevent this from happening, AND empowering women.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:25 PM

41. See, you said "and", so I think we're sort of on the same page.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:00 PM

81. And when you say (figuratively) a woman should be able...

 

...to walk stark naked through a bikie clubhouse, you're indulging in ridiculously wishful thinking.

REALITY DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT FOR MORALITY.

Most rapists, muggers, 419ers with their Nigerian oil and gold, Canadian lottery scammers, and Apple, they ALL rely on their victims (knowingly or unknowingly) making themselves vulnerable. If they aren't given an opening, they'll go looking elsewhere until one is presented.

Sadly, the world is full of not very nice people and there is zero evidence to suggest that this is likely to change any time this side of the heat death of the Universe.

Thus we have no choice but to discuss what the victim could have done differently.

We have no problem with blaming victims of theft when they leave the doors/windows open or the key in the ignition. (That last being an actual criminal offence in its own right here in Australia.)

None of this should should matter a tinker's curse, in the courts, and apart from some judges calling victims fools, it generally doesn't matter outside of sexual (and corporate) assault.

The problem is not blaming the victim. The problem is using the victim's contributory actions as an excuse not to prosecute. A subtle but significant difference.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #81)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:02 PM

82. and thinking the majority of rape victims are dressed in scimpy outfit or naked is wishful thinking.

they are merely women and girls in normal attire that is not suggestive in any way and it is not about just wanting to have sex cause a man is horney.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #82)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:19 PM

88. Did you read past that which you think you've refuted?

 

I did not say it's all or even primarily about clothing or lack thereof.

Nor is it about getting falling down drunk in a strange part of town.


What it's about is the simple inescapable fact that the world is chock full of victimisers and it's your behaviour which helps determine whether they will target you or someone else.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #88)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:25 PM

89. i just cannot take the time to explain why you are so wrong here. comments like these are pretty

much made to appease conscious to not have to put so much thought and consideration in what is happening in our world.

but, here is something really simple. the majority of girls and women are "properly" dressed. and still raped. so why even bring it up?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #89)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:21 PM

91. And it still comes down to a world full of arseholes.

 

And being properly prepared when you're out amongst them.

Clothing is just one factor. Getting helplessly drunk is another. As is putting oneself in a position of presumed obligation (ie a night of free drinks).

NEVER acceptable reason or excuse. However, they are so easily recognised as potential triggers to a would be rapist (in virtually any society), that the initial reaction is almost inevitablly: "What the hell did they think they were doing?"

And we do it, even when the contributory factor is something we all do, like leaving a window open at night. It's human. When faced with events that couldn't be PREVENTED, we immediatly go looking for how they could have been AVOIDED/left to happen to someone else.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:09 AM

96. This is what baffles me,

The stuff that "Take Back the Night" printed and posted back when I was in university would be considered patriarchal blame the victim propaganda around here. Which I really don't recall was the message they were going for. Maybe they were a splinter cell?

Their basic message was "You're the last line of defense, keep your wits about you." Usually communicated with intricately illustrated but extremely graphic posters.

Does anyone go berserk over the carjacking prevention film every teenager to have ever taken AAA drivers-ed had to watch?

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:41 AM

13. exactly. when are we gonna see the real question asked:

What do we do about male violence?



Excellent article, thank you

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:47 AM

14. As a woman, I dispute the hypothesis here: women have long been blamed for assaults on them.

On reason women often prefer not to bring charges, is that the woman must defend herself in court. As some have put it, you get raped twice, once in fact, once in court, as your whole life is used to prove how you "asked for" it or "deserved it".

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Response to s-cubed (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:50 AM

15. Agree. That's why I added "I don't think it's a new phenomenon or isolated to sexual abuse, either."

To my comments on the OP.

Perhaps the author believes we were trending towards doing better in this regard and that 2012 was the 2 steps back to 1 step forward. That's kind of how I took it.

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Response to s-cubed (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:50 AM

16. how is what you said disputing the hypothesis?

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Response to niyad (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:56 AM

17. I think she's saying that 2012 wasn't 'the year', but that it's always been that way.

And I agree. But I think this year we've seen a number of high-profile cases that are very explicit examples that the author focused on. The reality is that there are so many that happen daily that are not high-profile.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:01 PM

18. i think like with racism, in the earlier decades starting at 80's it was not pc to say this outloud.

in the last decade we have culturally gone beyond pc, to fuck it... and with social network people are getting reinforcement that they do not have to be quiet with racism and misogyny. and is manifesting to the very public voices of both.

i leave out the homophobia because i do not think it had gotten well founded that it was wrong to be anti homophobic. we were only getting there as a society. but, racism and misogyny had gotten socially unacceptable.

now people are feeling more free with their hate, it being reinforced on the net.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

21. I think you're right. As the generation who fought for equal rights ages, those behind it have no

idea what was like before and few who truly appreciate the fight for equal rights. It's a shame and I am fortunate to have been raised by staunch progressives who were there and made it a priority to instill the values they fought for to make serious changes.

I just hope we can refocus and work on continual growth and improvement.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

20. that part makes sense. guess my caffeine intake today is not optimal yet

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:27 PM

42. Biased & dangerous course

 

Yes, rape must be the focus, and blame resting on the predator, but I see issues here.

No, it isn't OK to run around pantyless & short skirts and think you are not making yourself target. What you wear and how you wear it tells a lot about a persons personality and behavior. You wear a neon sign saying fk-me, you are liable to get screwed. We can still blame the prep, but that doesn't mean you were not also at fault or acted irresponsible in the matter.

And second, males get raped, so it is not a male issue, it is a societal issue that starts in the home with parenting.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:30 PM

43. You should be ashamed of yourself. Rape is NOT a crime of sexual desire.

It is not, these men don't have an overwhelming sexual desire, they wish to dominate, control, and cause pain

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:32 PM

44. ^^^^ This is an example of victim-blaming ^^^^

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:57 PM

49. We don't blame people wearing expensive jewelry when they get robbed.

We don't blame the few men who get raped because of what they wear.

And while parenting is certainly part of the issue, when you have a society where rape is used as entertainment & a way to sell products, you have a society that sends the message that rape is acceptable.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:16 PM

51. You, sir, are a misogynistic asshole. n/t

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:32 PM

52. This is why the TOS needs to be revamped

Where women are concerned.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:41 PM

53. women 1 in 4-6 chance of rape. men 1 in 73. hardly the same. men 99% rapist.

this post would be labeled a rape apologist.

for males it is as children or prison.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:44 PM

55. wow.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:45 PM

57. I dare you to come say that to my face.

I was raped at 16, you fucking monster. It destroyed me and my relationship with human beings. Thanks for the blame, it is truly helpful and appreciated.

I'm sure the language police will be around any minute to alert on my post despite the fact that your horrific example of slut-shaming and misogyny was allowed to stand.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:46 PM

58. .



I'm so very sorry for what you went through and people like this asshole.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:48 PM

59. Thanks...

it was a long time ago, but there are days it seems like yesterday. The rape colored every relationship I've had with guys ever since, including the one I have with my husband. And I told no one at the time...

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:57 PM

61. I'm with you!

Remarks like that should cost him teeth!

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:29 PM

84. Just FYI, that poster is no longer with us.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:45 PM

86. Ahh, a good thing!

Thanks for the update. That post infuriated me- as you probably could tell!
Happy new year!

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:02 PM

63. "She had it coming" is something only misogynisic assholes infer.

And then you jump to "males get raped too." If so, what items of male clothing are you blaming for their fate? You left that part off. I guess guys who get raped wear short skirts and no panties too, since you didn't say otherwise, those provocative minxes.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:06 PM

65. So women should not be allowed out unless they are wearing

their Burka.

You sir are a jackass of the highest order.

Put down your subscription to Maxim and get a fucking clue.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:08 PM

66. I have every bit as much right to go where I want when I want as any man.

Your attitude is disgusting.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:12 PM

67. Wrong, and incredibly hurtful to rape survivors.

No, it isn't OK to run around pantyless & short skirts and think you are not making yourself target. What you wear and how you wear it tells a lot about a persons personality and behavior. You wear a neon sign saying fk-me, you are liable to get screwed. We can still blame the prep, but that doesn't mean you were not also at fault or acted irresponsible in the matter.


running around pantyless and with short skirts IS NOT "making yourself a target," telling "a lot about a person's personality," or wearing "a neon sign saying fk-me."

As others have noted, rape is a crime of anger and power - not uncontrolled sexual urges. The rapist gets his sexual thrills by asserting that power over, or taking that anger out on, his victims. He (and in the vast majority of cases it is "he") does, for the most part, engage in victim selection - but that selection is similar to how a bully picks out its victims: An assessment of who he is most likely to get away with raping. Over the 10 years I spent as an advocate to hundreds of rape survivors there was zero correlation between what might be thought of of as overt displays of sexuality and the women targeted for rape.

There are things a woman can choose to do to make it less likely that she will be the one targeted; things which - either from a distance or once an attack starts - scream to the rapist that you will not be an easy victim (being attentive to surroundings, moving in a manner that projects confidence and power, learning basic self defense skills, etc.). But failing to take those steps (or taking those steps and being targeted anyway) does not make a survivor "at fault" or "irresponsible" for the actions of a rapist.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:07 PM

70. Thank You So Much For Stating That.

It's much easier to know who the assholes are on this site when they come right out and tell you who they are.

Blaming women or anyone else for a crime perpetuated against them is fucked up.

Anyone that subscribes to that way of thinking as also fucked up.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:15 PM

71. So, if speaking your mind gets you badly beaten, it's your own fault then?

You're one sick bastard if you believe that.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:19 PM

72. So Sharia law would well for you? All women keep everything covered up or they are asking for it?

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:38 PM

73. Uh, no

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:28 AM - Edit history (2)

You really need to educate yourself. You're still living in the dark ages.



http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:45 PM

74. How About Dragging Yourself Into The 20th Century?


If you can manage that, you can work on the 21st century a little later.....

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Response to Paladin (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:46 PM

75. He'll have to do that from the grave...

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:54 PM

77. When I was raped I was at home in my own bed, suffering from pneumonia.

I wasn't raped because my cotton pajamas and sickly sweat were irresistibly sexy. I was raped because a rapist hates women and I am a woman. Period.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 06:08 PM

78. Fuck you for wearing that avatar you didn't earn, you shitbird.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 06:12 PM

80. Fuck this bullshit.

But welcome to the patriarchy - which is going extinct, btw. Thank god.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:02 PM

85. What you are doing is blaming the victim

Once upon a time ( and even still in some places) women were considered to be "asking for it" by showing a little ankle.

Let me ask you this. If YOU were to walk around in shorts without a shirt, should you expect to be raped and then told you asked for it because your state of dress made someone else unable to control themselves?

Rape is never okay. Rape is never the fault of the victim.

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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:16 PM

87. Found on FB



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Response to shintao (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:26 PM

90. you are sick

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Response to Skittles (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:37 AM

94. Was. Past tense.

He disrupted poorly.

See the thread in meta, and you're welcome.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 03:07 AM

95. I tend to think that guys who talk like that

are actual rapists

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:30 PM

29. bss ackwards

we are still a society where MEN make the rules , and women are not equally treated , in the law , and as human beings . THIS MUST CHANGE !

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Response to kardonb (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:35 PM

30. Definitely!!! I'm absolutely amazed as we move into the 21st century that this backward crap still

goes on.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:25 PM

40. Exactly! nt

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:41 AM

5. Kick.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:59 AM

6. “myth that women are responsible for men’s sexual behaviour."

"When a man rapes a woman, who is typically blamed? The woman of course. The rapist is usually not deemed responsible for his own violent behavior. All the responsibility for that is placed onto the woman who was raped. But when it comes to her having any jurisdiction whatsoever over her own body after the crime should she desire an abortion? Forget it. She’s only responsible for what he did to her with his."

. . .

http://www.sevenbowie.com/2012/12/american-taliban-women-have-no-right-to-their-own-bodies-but-theyre-responsible-for-his/

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Response to ProfessionalLeftist (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:06 AM

7. good piece, thanks. they are the American Taliban, indeed.

"This is a symptom of a morally sick society. It’s a society that absolutely refuses to force men to be responsible for their own sexual behavior or its consequences. Men certainly have a choice in the abortion and birth control debate too. Each and every one of them. And that choice is located precisely at their pants zipper. But after they decide at that time and location, their part of any “choice” is done. Any choosing beyond that point is up to her. His choice ends there. But his responsibility for the consequence of his choice should not. If a man gets a woman pregnant, regardless how he does it, he should be held financially responsible by law:"

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Response to ProfessionalLeftist (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:36 PM

47. Well worth the time to read!

I especially liked this section:

This is a symptom of a morally sick society. It’s a society that absolutely refuses to force men to be responsible for their own sexual behavior or its consequences. Men certainly have a choice in the abortion and birth control debate too. Each and every one of them. And that choice is located precisely at their pants zipper. But after they decide at that time and location, their part of any “choice” is done. Any choosing beyond that point is up to her. His choice ends there. But his responsibility for the consequence of his choice should not. If a man gets a woman pregnant, regardless how he does it, he should be held financially responsible by law:

If a pregnancy results, then he must now help raise that child (and yes, he or his immediate family should be forced to financially support the child);

He or his family must pay for a safe, legal abortion if the woman he impregnated wants it (NO it doesn’t matter if he is against abortion. He should have thought of that before he unzipped the zipper. Remember he’s made his choice already. Now it’s up to her);

If he gave the woman an STD, he or his family must be held financially responsible for treatment for both of them, particularly if the STD is HIV, which is deadly;

If he raped the woman, then he or his family must pay for any psychological counseling for his victim if she requires it, and she most certainly will.

Again, men have a choice – it’s located at their pants zipper. That is the location and the scope of their choice in the matter and it’s time society started both teaching and enforcing this principle. Males should be taught from early puberty that their “choice” in the matter of abortion and contraception begins and ends right there. But their responsibility for any consequences of their choice absolutely does not end there. There is no moral or legal reason that it should. Except of course that men mostly make our laws and they make them such that it is convenient for them to pawn financial responsibility and social blame for the consequences and costs of their own behavior and lack of self-control onto the women of our society.


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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:20 AM

8. K. And R. n/t

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:37 AM

10. Another aspect, IMHO, is that ...

victim blaming comes from a place of fear. If you can find some way in which the victim is at fault, then you can tell yourself that it won't happen to you or someone you care about because you will never do X (whatever X ends up being). Also, then you don't have to make any changes or take any action, because if the victim had just done X, everything would be ok. So, don't worry about trying to change the culture or the law or whatever, because it was all the victim's fault anyway.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:40 AM

12. very good points, thank you.

Americans think our society is the beat in the world. Changing our cultural norms is hard and requires a lot of ugly, painful self-analysis.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:04 PM

19. i think the greater fear is the independence and progress women have made and the fear men have

that they will no longer have the controlling abilities of privilege and power like they have always historically had.

so while i agree, so much of this backlash against women is all about fear, i see the fear coming from a different place.

your explanation is more immediate i think. where i think mine is more a movement we are seeing.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

22. I think that's a part of it, but ...

I have come to believe that at a very deep level, we humans are more controlled and motivated by fear than we choose to believe.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:10 PM

23. Agreed. The GOP and religious right are masters of manipulating this.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:15 PM

25. They really are.

It's truly amazing at times. I mean, yeah, you know, the world is a scary place. Even having freedom can be scary, which is how I think about women who support the GOP. Maybe it's just easier to have someone telling you what to do and having a really constrained role to play for some women. Maybe that feels safe to them. But it's an illusion.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:21 PM

28. I think we as Democrats are guilty of this, too. And we should take responsibility to change this.

I could spend every waking moment cataloging examples and still miss most.

I fully and shamefully admit that I have even fallen into the language and/or fear trap, but you know what? I am taking responsibility and affirm to work harder on that. And I will work harder on pointing out this fallacy to others when they fall into it as well. Whether it's at home, work, the grocery store, Facebook, DU... whatever. And I hope that others will help me when I falter as well.

The hardest part for me will be keeping my cool... but I will work on that as well.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:00 PM

32. in the early 2000's my issue was religion and hate on liberals. last couple years it has been hate

on women. i have seen such a profound attack on women and how the net feeds it. people of like mind unite. teaching our young it is acceptable. and media promoting it in our face.

that is what i have become. i will not stop speaking out against it.

it is not a fun place to be.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:10 PM

35. And, for that, you have my utmost respect. I know you're a strong ally in the fight for women.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:12 PM

37. sigh.... and that

is so very nice and welcoming. thank you.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:43 PM

54. ya. i just saw it. misogyny is live and well on du. nt

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:15 PM

24. i couldnt agree more. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:16 PM

26. I also couldn't agree more with your point that it is very far-reaching.

They are afraid of women having any sort of power.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:19 PM

27. I think all motivation, and hence control, stems from fear ... and the republicans, ... and the

religious right know now to play those cards well.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:48 PM

31. I found a website that says exactly this...

http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

FIRST OF ALL, WHERE DOES IT COME FROM?

In order to stop victim blaming, it is helpful to understand why people do it in the first place. One reason people blame a victim is to distance themselves from an unpleasant occurrence and thereby confirm their own invulnerability to the risk. By labeling or accusing the victim, others can see the victim as different from themselves. People reassure themselves by thinking, "Because I am not like her, because I do not do that, this would never happen to me." Help people understand that this is not a helpful reaction.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:50 PM

60. Hey, thanks for finding/posting that.

I like the end of that quote: "Help people understand that this is not a helpful reaction." Ha -- yeah!

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:42 AM

97. "Just-world hypothesis" explains exactly that.

The just-world hypothesis (or just-world fallacy) is the cognitive bias that human actions eventually yield morally fair and fitting consequences, so that, ultimately, noble actions are duly rewarded and evil actions are duly punished. In other words, the just-world hypothesis is the tendency to attribute consequences to, or expect consequences as the result of, an unspecified power that restores moral balance; the fallacy is that this implies (often unintentionally) the existence of such a power in terms of some cosmic force of justice, desert, stability, or order in the universe.


Also the actor–observer bias:

Actor–observer asymmetry (also actor–observer bias) explains the errors that one makes when forming attributions about behavior (Jones & Nisbett, 1971). When a person judges their own behavior, and they are the actor, they are more likely to attribute their actions to the particular situation than to a generalization about their personality. Yet when a person is attributing the behavior of another person, thus acting as the observer; they are more likely to attribute this behavior to the person’s overall disposition than as a result of situational factors. This frequent error shows the bias that people hold in their evaluations of behavior (Miller & Norman, 1975). People are more likely to see their own behavior as affected by the situation they are in, or the sequence of occurrences that have happened to them throughout their day. But, they see other people’s actions as solely a product of their overall personality, and they do not afford them the chance to explain their behavior as exclusively a result of a situational effect.


Basically people blame bad actions on the situation or some other extenuating circumstance when it's them, but when it's someone else they ascribe it to some kind of personal character flaw in the other person. Ex: You don't stop to help someone who's fallen, it's because you were late for a really important meeting or some other extenuating circumstance. You see someone else do the same, they're an asshole, they don't care about other people, etc.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:01 PM

33. This was "the year"? It seems like this has been an issue for as long

as I can remember. After reading this article, it sounds like it could have been from any time in at least the past 20 years.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:09 PM

34. Agreed. We discussed that a bit upthread.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:33 PM

46. I guess I've been dreaming all this time

thinking we were progressing as a species. I feel like a fool.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:32 PM

45. Why the fuck are we going backwards?

I was reading along, waiting to see if this was in my state and then I realized that this is happening across the pond. WTF!? Why are we supposed 'civilized societies' backsliding into barbarism? Did the BFEE (Poodle included) really fuck things up this longterm for everyone around the world?

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Response to Rex (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:38 PM

48. Because of people like this:

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Response to Rex (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:45 PM

56. women have gained too much freedom and independence. this is the backlash. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:00 PM

62. You've gone way too far with your statement!

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Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:23 PM

68. sighin' again... lol. that made me chuckle.

not giggle, but.... chuckle.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:34 PM

69. Can you see beyond . . .

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:05 PM

83. Ha I believe it!

If you look at our state legislators in GOP strongholds and their wanton violation of women's bodies. Guess we have 1984 and they have the Handmaidens Tale.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 03:05 PM

64. This has been going on for so long.

It does seem this year it has been given more media attention, which is a good thing because it opens discussions. A victim of rape is NEVER...I repeat, NEVER, to blame! NEVER! Now that things are coming out, people are really talking about these things in more concrete ways. It is also allowing men to speakout as victims, as opposed to hiding in shame and fear. Both my youngest brother and I have been sexually assaulted, his was quite violent and neither of us were children at the time, nor were we in prison. His was a stranger attack, I knew my attacker. He was really drunk, I was stone sober. His attack took place in private, mine in front of other people.

Rape is violence!

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:46 PM

76. K&R

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 06:11 PM

79. Rapists should be put to death.

I know that people will be horrified by this, but really? I don't think this planet will miss rapists at all. People who think they have the fucking RIGHT to violate another human being in the most vile way possible are pretty much the dregs of humanity and good riddance to them!

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 12:18 AM

92. Nothing new here--rape victims have ALWAYS been blamed n/t

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Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Dec 30, 2012, 07:20 AM

98. The medical student's death in India may be a turning factor.

 

Anyone reading about that cannot be less than horrified and sickened. Public outrage is palpable.

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