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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:30 AM

If Obama were exactly who is, lived his life exactly as he has, governed exactly as he has . . . .

. . . . even said the very same words he said all these years . . . . but was white, there would be less rancor than there is today. I think it is undeniable that his race has played a significant part in the growth of division in this country.

When he was elected, most of us had hope for a better tomorrow. A moving on. Some of us were moved to tears that we had finally gotten past the biggest issues with race, that a barrier had been broken.

Sadly, we are little better than we were. And it doesn't seem to me a condition that we will outgrow as younger people get older and older people die. I see and hear the same deeply help, albeit quiet, racial fears and antipathy. Maybe a little better. But not much.

Not nearly as much as we had hoped.

Please note: this thread is about race in America, not about Obama, per se.

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Reply If Obama were exactly who is, lived his life exactly as he has, governed exactly as he has . . . . (Original post)
Stinky The Clown Dec 2012 OP
Enrique Dec 2012 #1
Lucky Luciano Dec 2012 #7
loyalkydem Dec 2012 #2
spanone Dec 2012 #3
Bonobo Dec 2012 #4
Cresent City Kid Dec 2012 #5
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #19
Angry Dragon Dec 2012 #6
Skidmore Dec 2012 #8
JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #11
mainstreetonce Dec 2012 #9
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #10
Ineeda Dec 2012 #12
Skidmore Dec 2012 #13
hfojvt Dec 2012 #14
Stinky The Clown Dec 2012 #15
hfojvt Dec 2012 #18
lunatica Dec 2012 #16
2naSalit Dec 2012 #17

Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:41 AM

1. they impeached Bill Clinton

look at Clinton now, he's a very popular political figure, even the RWers don't hate him anymore. See that video of him all buddy-buddy with Paul Ryan?

Look at Clinton, and remember, the GOP freaking IMPEACHED him. It is outrageous that that happened. The first impeachment in our country in over 100 years, only the 2nd in our history, and it was 100% fake.

Know when the first time al Qaeda attacked us, the first time anyone heard of al Qaeda? It was the horrific embassy bombings, simultaneous in two cities, a frightening turning point for our country. And how did the GOP respond? By pressing on with their fake impeachment, and publishing the shameful Starr Report shortly after.

I still don't understand how Newt Gingrich ran for president and he wasn't asked constantly about his role in that shameful episode.

Bottom line, the divisions preceded Obama by a long shot.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:05 AM

7. This. nt

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:54 AM

2. I agree and we would not see so many racist comments on the internet

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:05 AM

3. his election ripped the scab off years of hidden racism imho

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:16 AM

4. Switch that to "but was a Republican" just for shits and giggles...

We would, here on DU, be savaging him for his policies.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:27 AM

5. Every post Reagan Democratic president will be vilified in some way

They certainly use the racism that is out there, by saying nothing they let it add to their efforts. It looks purely racist since Obama gives them no personal faults to pick apart like Clinton, and politically is moderate. If he were white there might be less rancor in the general public, but the effort to create it would still be there. The color of money trumps skin color with those trying to bring down Democratic candidates and presidents. It is despicable that they use racism as a power source, but they will find some other tool when white Dems are involved.

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Response to Cresent City Kid (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:56 PM

19. Yes, racism is certainly a factor, but there's a general Republican sense of entitlement.

Twenty years ago, Republicans would vote against Democrats but understood that sometimes their candidate would lose, and that it was perfectly normal for Democrats to hold power from time to time.

I don't see that any more. Thanks in part to Fox News (launched in 1996), many of today's Republicans really do seem to believe that the only legitimate President is a Republican President. Anyone else in office is a usurper.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:01 AM

6. I thought the same when he was elected ...

that we were getting past racism

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:29 AM

8. Yes, and the heightened rancor about his race has detracted significantly from

laying responsibility at the feet of a largely white Congress which has not done its job. For the past 20 years, Congress has electioneered nonstop while sidestepping major policy issues from its war powers to writing legislation on budgets. Instead, the President has been turned into a scapegoat for their maleficence, sometimes with the help of his own constituency. We see it daily on these forums.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:00 AM

11. +1

And on these forums - people are apologists and seem to want to pretend that the abject hatred and resentmentment towards blacks, and ths black President doesn't exist.

Our own side of the aisle would be much stronger if the left would stop trying to skip through fields of daisies and making excuses for the bigots on the right.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:35 AM

9. When he is out of office

I hope he can speak truthfully about what the discrimination was like.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:41 AM

10. I suggest that if bigotry toward anyone is bad, and it is, then nominations of bigots does not help.

Or perhaps race based bigotry is bad but it is somehow understandable to say horrid things about gay people?
This administration is backing Hagel, who said the following about another American nominated for a diplomatic position:
“They are representing America. They are representing our lifestyle, our values, our standards. And I think it is an inhibiting factor to be gay — openly, aggressively gay, like Mr. Hormel — to do an effective job.”

And I think it is an inhibiting factor to be gay. So as long as THAT sort of hate is rewarded, it seems rather selective to get all road rashy about random racism from Republicans. A Republican is allowed to say utterly libelous shit about millions of Americans and specifically toward a nominee and that Republican gets lauded, yet somehow we should be able to employ THAT Republican bigot and still counter the rank and file bigots? How does that work?
Here's Hagel gone Madlibs. I removed the word 'gay' so you can insert nouns for other groups in that place and see how it reads. I recommend the words 'feminist' 'Muslim' and 'black' as good starting places for those who think it is cool to say such things about their fellow Americans:
“They are representing America. They are representing our lifestyle, our values, our standards. And I think it is an inhibiting factor to be ____ — openly, aggressively _____, like Mr. Hormel — to do an effective job.”

Many in politics claim they are religious, but they seem shocked that bread cast upon the waters might return to them in many days, raving about Kenya and birth certificates.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:06 AM

12. What has shocked me

is that the racism directed at this president is not the least bit discreet. What might have been only whispered or spoken aloud among like-minded, trusted associates is bandied about with no shame whatsoever. I, too, had high hopes.

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Response to Ineeda (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:11 AM

13. Yes, and at no time in my remaining life will I allow anyone to get by with stating

what a shining beacon of equality and fairness America is--that it is exceptional. That misty-eyed bullshit sold to this nation by Reaganites that everything America represents should be seen through a soft-focus lens is just that--BS. America has been stripped of its fig leaf and exposed for what it is, a nation which exploits for gain. We are no better than any third world banana republic. We just have more expensive toys.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:55 AM

14. so there wasn't any rancor in 1996?

there wasn't an impeachment and months and months and months of Congressional hearings and media tail sniffing and finger wagging?

A federal building did not get blown up?

There wasn't a Government shut down?

What I have found sad is the way the left wants to cry racism, racism, racism, racism. Wherever we can find two or three racists, we multiply that into two or three million.

Yep, every other day, it is time for another singalong with Mitch Miller, the old favorite "Must be racism"

"Whose got skin that's pale and white?
Racists have skin that's pale and white.
who comes around and thinks they've got rights
racists come around and think they've got rights

thinks they've got rights, pale and white
must be racists, must be racists
must be racists, racists, because

who no longer wears a hood on their head
racists no longer wear a hood on their head
who will dance when the President is dead
racists will dance when the President is dead (uhm, Bush Senior anyone?)

no hood on their head, dance when he's dead
think they've got rights, pale and white,
must be racists, must be racists
must be racists, racists, because

who deserves a big punch in the nose
racists deserve a punch in the nose
who really needs to go, go, go
racists really need to go, go, go

go, go, go, punch in the nose
no hood on their head, dance when he's dead
think they've got rights, pale and white
must be racists, must be racists
must be racists, racists, because

who thinks they can have a say
racists think they can have a say
who goes to school and wants to pray
racists goto school and want to pray

want to pray, have a say
punch in the nose, go go go
no hood on their head, dance when he's dead
think they've got rights, pale and white
must be racists, must be racists
must be racists, racists, because

Limbaugh, BillO, Coulter, Palin
Boehner, Ryan, Hannity and Dobson

Limbaugh, BillO, Coulter, Palin
Boehner, Ryan, Hannity and Dobson
want to pray, have a say
punch in the nose, go go go
no hood on their head, dance when he's dead
think they've got rights, pale and white
must be racists, must be racists
must be racists, racists, because



I can't believe I wrote the whole thing
somebody get me some alca selzer


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Response to hfojvt (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:26 PM

15. You**totally** missed the point of this thread. **Totally**

The thread is not about antipathy toward this president, or even against Democrats.

It is about racism in America. It hasn't been blunted at all and in fact, might be getting worse. Obama's only connection to that is his race makes a barometer of the climate - not the cause or the target.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:02 PM

18. your "evidence" of racism in America is what missed

You say that antipathy towards Obama proves this racism, measures it.

But if the antipathy towards Obama is no different that the antipathy towards Clinton, Gore, or Kerry, then clearly the antipathy towards Obama does not prove anything about racism in America.

Ever since Obama has been elected, I have seen this board declaring racism at every shadow.

Whenever somebody says "boo" that "must be racism".

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:29 PM

16. I don't know how old you are but believe me there has been huge progress

regarding racial issues in my lifetime. Just the fact that President Obama was RE-ELECTED shows that the majority of Americans are fine with him as President.

Never give up. Progress is measured in small steps.

Racism was an insidious thing expressed behind closed doors and in whispers all the time with just as much venom as we hear today. The fact that I'm white made lots of white people whisper their racist shit to me because they assumed I was one of them.

Now the racism is out of the closet, so to speak. It's not that there is more of it. It's that they've become emboldened in each others' company. They are the ones who are out of touch with the times. Out of touch with decency and respect. They scream too, making it sound like there are many more of them than the rest of us.

The fact is, they aren't the majority. They are a dying demographic, being outnumbered by all the minorities they have mistreated and oppressed. No matter what they do they are diminishing in numbers daily, but for some reason they just can't accept it as if they think that the louder they scream the more they can hold back the next wave of this country's history. But it's much more than a wave. It's a veritable tsunami.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:47 PM

17. I have to agree with both

the OP and lunatica's points. I have seen a great deal of change in racial conditions but then again, there is a substantial amount of "under the radar" racism still simmering in this nation. I remember what it was like before the CRA in the mid 60s. The media still under-reports on racism and there is still a lot of discrimination for anyone not pearly white in the job market, in entertainment, in education systems, housing availabilities and social opportunities and groupings.

And if you are lamenting the racism in a certain faction of our government, just wait until Hillary runs for office again, the slut-shaming will be so blatant... I suspect that this is one of the reasons for the war on women at this point, those misogynous bigots are prepping for 2016 in an "under the radar" movement to malign any woman running for president. If the overwhelming disrespect for women is whipped up to a froth in the next four years they will get to frame the conditions for presidential leadership. The good thing is that they are exposing themselves.

Oscar Arias (Nobel Peace Laureate and former President of Costa Rica) once told me that humankind cannot make progress until women are empowered in policy decisions and government. And I still believe he is correct.

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