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Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:13 AM

Most shooters have an aggrieved sense of entitlement

They are not mentally Ill. They are not on drugs.

They are people who are used to getting their way and take major offense when they don't.

All according to the FBI.

http://www.examiner.com/article/what-fbi-profiles-tell-us-about-school-shooters-and-how-to-prevent-the-next-one-6

16 replies, 1599 views

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Arrow 16 replies Author Time Post
Reply Most shooters have an aggrieved sense of entitlement (Original post)
Confusious Dec 2012 OP
orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #1
sammy27932003 Dec 2012 #2
Flashmann Dec 2012 #3
dkf Dec 2012 #4
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #8
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #5
green for victory Dec 2012 #9
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #11
Confusious Dec 2012 #13
Confusious Dec 2012 #14
mainer Dec 2012 #6
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #7
uponit7771 Dec 2012 #10
Hoyt Dec 2012 #12
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #15
Confusious Dec 2012 #16

Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:36 AM

1. I don't blur a Mom & Pop store owner who has....

been victimized and usurping assholes like the Zimmerman's of the world .

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:50 AM

2. I think some are afraid.There are rural places where you need protection.

I was always afraid of bears in upper Michigan I carried a rifle.I lived way out in the desert of Arizona.I carried a pistol against snakes.There are also soldiers I know who believe they should be ready to defend their country.I now live in the city,I don't need a weapon.We don't need "stand your ground laws."We do need registation of guns.We need police protection that is not military-like.

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:51 AM

3. They are people who are used to getting their way and take major offense when they don't.

Republicons?

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:12 AM

4. Why can't the aggrieved sense of entitlement come with mental illness?

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:53 AM

8. See my reply below in #5

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:36 AM

5. Well, they aren't mentally ill in part because the APA doesn't recognize post-traumatic embitterment

or any other mental illness that might provide diagnostic criteria and a label

PTE was proposed by a Berlin psychologist Michel Linden who recognized a discernible repeating pattern in East Germans following the fall of the east German government.

He has had several doctoral students who worked on creating repeatable diagnoses and evaluating treatment for it. The APA has rejected this disorder from inclusion in the DSM.

PTE is suggested as an unusually strong reaction to setbacks that normally occur in life...which are followed by a sense of unfairness, embitterment, and the key diagnostic feature of ideation about revenge.

Post WWII American society didn't have long lasting reversals of fortune that influenced large numbers of people who then started showing up in clinics seeking help. The collapse of east Germany did. The socialization that guided people's lives and pursuit of success became largely useless in a society with both a failed government and a collapsed economy. People suffered as a consequence. But guns weren't widely available in the failed state.

In some ways what Linden proposed is an extreme adjustment disorder. American psychologists have never thought much of adjustment disorders. Relegating them to something of a subclinical complication in the US and clinicians are directed to deal with other mental disorders first if adjustment presented with other illness.

Post-Traumatic Embitterment has no history here, so people have doubt about whether it's real. The public rather strongly objects to the pathologizing of emotions that are common (mostly because the public doesn't want to be labelled with a mental illness). Psychologists working in 'real trauma' didn't like the name Post-traumatic as it over-lapped with PTSD which was already under pressure to disintegrate into several subtypes.

It's important to realize that the APA hasn't got all the answers in the DSM, and for various reasons it doesn't incorporate every mental illness that's recognized elsewhere or proposed. Another example of a disorder that might be of interest in these cases could be narcissistic disorder...only the exhibitionist form is included in the DSM, but last century's expert on the subject recognized other types which have no exhibitionist traits, including one referred to a 'Closet Narcissism' where the question of proper sense of entitlement is one of the difficulties associated with the narcissists sense of self.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:54 AM

9. *The FBI is either lying or talking about illegal drugs *(Sorry reply meant for OP)

 

EDIT**Misdirected- this was intended for the OP****

If you can find 1 single incident of school shootings in the last 20 years where the shooter has not been on, or withdrawing from lab based drugs (when the fbi talks drugs- they're soil based) you will make news. No one so far has been able to.

Please see: http://ssristories.com/index.php

The Mainstream media once noticed, but now they're talking about everything but. Listen for yourself. Video games, movies blah blah never meds.

Here's proof the FBI was lying or wrong (media talks kids and drugs @ about 4:04):



and Michael Moore ought to know:


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Response to green for victory (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:00 AM

11. But that's not true of all work-place shootings or shootings in public places

The early post-office shootings, the origin of 'going postal', actually happened before the drugs like SSRIs were marketed.

And I don't think there is any reason to think that unacknowledged mental illness couldn't be associated with psychiatric medicine.

Psychiatrists don't do many diagnostic tests before prescribing, visits that produce the RXs are usually on the order of 15 minutes and the psychiatrist is often relying on information provided from the referring therapist...so the psychiatrists evaluation is very much subject to confirmational bias...which is to say they will likely see what they are told to look for by the referring therapist.




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Response to green for victory (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:55 PM

13. The reason you say 20 years

Is that there were shootings before SSRIs.

Which kinda makes your entire theory "shit."

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Response to green for victory (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:41 PM

14. Police find no evidence of medication

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250009/Adam-Lanzas-hard-drive-smashed-police-search-NO-mental-health-medications.html

Furthering the statement "your theory is 'shit.'"

Ps. The fanapt he was supposedly taking was a hoax

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:46 AM

6. What's scary: "sense of aggrieved entitlement" describes many gun owners I know

And when anyone threatens to tighten the gun laws, their sense of aggrieved entitlement grows to fever pitch.

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Response to mainer (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:49 AM

7. Yeah, I know some like that

And they can be scary sometimes.

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Response to mainer (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:55 AM

10. +1..the whole second amendment your position is based all the entitlement mindset

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:36 AM

12. More reason not to allow millions of Wayne LaPierres to walk around in public with a gun.

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Response to Confusious (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:44 PM

15. "used to getting their way"? wtf? evidence? 1/3 of mass shootings are workplace shootings,

 

often in the context of layoffs & firings.

the term 'going postal' orginated in a climate of recession & postal layoffs (the first manifestation of the killing of the US postal service still going on today).

just another attempt to whitewash the effects of neoliberalism & turn them into individual pathology.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 05:52 PM

16. Most people don't run around shooting people up

So it is an individual thing. As for neoliberalism, I don't know what that has to do with motivations of a shooter, I.e. medication, video games, movies, individual motivations or illness.

Some are seeking revenge

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/20/12858757-mass-murderers-often-not-mentally-ill-but-seeking-revenge-experts-say?lite

The evidence is "the FBI says" as stated in the article.

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