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Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:24 PM

We saw Lincoln tonight. Thoughts on the movie and its relation to today's politics...

Fascinating - my friend told me he thought it was "long" - my wife and I disagree - it was just a marvelous experience to behold. Superb acting - and always amazing at how a well done historical movie can keep you on the edge of your seat even when you know how it will end. And it was moving - incredibly moving.

It reinforced how messy politics is - how cruel it can be, how polarizing, how selfish, obtuse, corrupt, frustrating. How difficult it is to do the right thing; how much patience is required. How much like today it was back then...except that we seem to have lost the ability to compromise at all (especially the current version of republicans, of course). If Lincoln was indeed even close to what was portrayed, he was such a vital man for his time, an amazing human being. It also reinforced that politics isn't for everyone...and some of those that enter it probably shouldn't be there as well.

It also amazed me to see how young our country was. And how grotesque the civil war was. And so much more...it is going to take me some days to digest it all.

Finally - I do sense some of what made Lincoln special in our current president.

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Reply We saw Lincoln tonight. Thoughts on the movie and its relation to today's politics... (Original post)
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2012 OP
Skittles Dec 2012 #1
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2012 #6
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #2
Lex Dec 2012 #3
Skittles Dec 2012 #8
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #4
frostfern Dec 2012 #24
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #5
yellerpup Dec 2012 #7
47of74 Dec 2012 #9
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2012 #10
UTUSN Dec 2012 #11
tavernier Dec 2012 #12
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2012 #16
tavernier Dec 2012 #21
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #29
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #34
northoftheborder Dec 2012 #13
werknotgoin2takeit Dec 2012 #14
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #20
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2012 #15
pacalo Dec 2012 #19
frostfern Dec 2012 #23
Boomerproud Dec 2012 #36
tavalon Dec 2012 #17
Taverner Dec 2012 #18
frostfern Dec 2012 #22
question everything Dec 2012 #25
Pirate Smile Dec 2012 #26
Unrepentant Fenian Dec 2012 #27
graham4anything Dec 2012 #28
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #30
jrandom421 Dec 2012 #31
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #32
Loudly Dec 2012 #33
lindysalsagal Dec 2012 #35
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #37
slackmaster Jan 2013 #38
Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #39

Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:31 PM

1. excellent movie

it is only "long" if you are conditioned to think a movie can only be good if it contains endless CGI action scenes

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:58 PM

6. exactly...the four coming attractions we not at all attractive.

all noise, violence, effects, guns, chaos. not our thing.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:33 PM

2. The movie wasn't believeable to me.


There's no way he killed so many vampires.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:34 PM

3. *cue the vampire quip*

oops too late

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:03 PM

8. SCHEDULING R. Daneel Olivaw FOR ASS KICKING!

*EGREGIOUS*

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:36 PM

4. i sense it's political propaganda to make the case for compromise. so i don't like it.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:55 AM

24. I disagree...

It was about leadership. Even in the face of the inescapable messiness, pettiness, and dishonesty of politics. It's not really about compromising ideals so much as the method of realization. No matter how good moral grandstanding and harsh partisan criticism feels it doesn't really breed trust for those sitting on the fence.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:44 PM

5. I haven't seen the movie but the book was great reading.

 

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:58 PM

7. We saw it a few weeks ago.

I thought Daniel Day-Lewis inhabited the role of Lincoln. It didn't seem long to us, either, but then we both like history and the relationship between Lincoln and Mary was so real, so full of tragedy.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:05 PM

9. One big thing to remember is that the parties pretty much flipped since that time...

The guys who were in the R column back then would be D today, and vise versa. Any one of them would probably get teabagged right out of the Republican party today. Especially Lincoln.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:06 PM

10. absolutely noted that...and agree!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:46 PM

11. L. B. J. n/t

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:55 PM

12. three words

Tommy Lee Jones.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:06 AM

16. two words

bad wig

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 09:03 AM

21. Which made his performance seem all the better, IMO

Very, very bad wig, probably based on portraits of this guy who, I understand, was quite the character.

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Response to tavernier (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:20 AM

29. he reminded me of Alan Grayson in that role

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:00 AM

34. Historically accurate wig

Thaddeus Stevens suffered from an affliction that caused him to lose all of his hair at age 35. He wore exactly the kind of ridiculous wig you saw in the film, which everyone knew and sometimes made fun of.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:21 PM

13. The best movie I've seen in years.

Terrific acting. Deserves multiple awards. Interesting how little congress has changed. Still provincial, many predjudices, ignorance, stubborness. I certainly learned some details of history I didn't know. I didn't know how close the vote was on passing the 14th amendment.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 12:54 AM

14. Such a wonderful film

(A FEW MILD SPOILERS)

I was lucky enough to see it twice. Over Thanksgiving my MIL/FIL were visiting and this seemed a great way to spend an afternoon after binging on turkey.The second time was the day after Christmas in an old pre-WWI theater with my mum and brother. I thought it was riveting from start to finish both times. Daniel Day Lewis will be remembered as the penultimate Lincoln putting another notch in his illustrious career. I kept forgetting that at its core it was about the passage of an amendment. There was so many incredible performances. The ones that really stick out is Mary Tod Lincoln greeting Thaddeus Stevens at their party, Lincoln confronting Mary about grief after Robert decides to join the Army, and (even though I knew the outcome) the voting on the amendment. Someone above said this movie was about compromise so they didn't like it but look again. Lincoln knew what he wanted and he would have it. It had to LOOK Bipartisan but there was no real compromise. That is why Stevens would not allow the one Senator to change parties until after the vote. Lincoln would have it done and brought his considerable personal strength to bear and would brook NO dissension.

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Response to werknotgoin2takeit (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:06 AM

20. The young kid playing his youngest son

We'll see that young man again, the kid impressed me.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:05 AM

15. I loved Lincoln - but I have to say...it was a real life, historical example of how Presidents can

move and sway.

I love Obama, but he doesn't (and seems incapable of) moving and swaying people (other than his constituency).

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:44 AM

19. To be fair, Lincoln could not have broken racial barriers any more effectively

than Obama, had Lincoln been a non-White politician in modern times.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:42 AM

23. Well...

The issue is the problems we face today are more complicated. This makes it easier to hide behind ideology. The evil of slavery was pretty much in your face. Not much room for rationalizing mental gymnastics.

I guess I could say most people today do admit there is a problem. The average wingnut see's the level of corruption and economic injustice that's occurring. They're just a bit deluded in where they place the blame. I don't think either side has any clear or straightforward idea of how to fix things. That's what's so fucked up about politics today.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:51 PM

36. I agree with your post, sadly.

The people that need to be moved are (and have been for decades) so entrenched in their idealogy that I can't see anyone persuading them to change. My feeling about Barack Obama is simply "Why do you want this (the presidency)? What motivates you?" Twenty children are gunned down and what is America's reaction-buy more guns!!! I'm at a complete loss to explain anything anymore.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:08 AM

17. Your friend wants long, I'll give him long.....

Ken Burn's Civil War. But fascinating to this history buff who wasn't a history buff in school because it was booooooorrrrriiiing.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 01:28 AM

18. The beginning battle scene was crazy

 

Shows how violent hand to hand combat was

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:26 AM

22. It was a great film...

It kept my attention well enough that I didn't really notice the length. I pray to God things never get that bad again. That thought wouldn't have crossed my mind 10 years ago... sad.

People say that war was about slavery, and you can't deny that totally, but at an even deeper level it was about economics... slavery was an economic institution in the South. A lot of people who had an inkling of how immoral the institution of slavery was, were simply overpowered by fear of change. Why did things have to go below rock bottom? Why did so many people have to die? Fear. Money and fear are truly the root of all evil.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:37 AM

25. It was amazing that

members of Congress actually voted their conscience;

that an amendment could be debated and voted in one month;

that Democrats were against the 13th Amendment - what will be next, voting? holding office? women voting?

that the White House really was the "people's house" with regular citizens coming and going, waiting to address the president

and, of course, with many movies depicting only 2-3 generations ago - the wonderful, rich language that everyone used.

Of course we know that the 13th Amendment passed, yet, the movie did hold my tension: will it pass?

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Response to question everything (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:46 AM

26. A bunch of them had to be bought off. One of the things that makes it harder now is that

there are no more earmarks. There are still plenty of legislators who only do the right thing when they get something for it. There are a lot of people, both then and now, who did the right thing and voted their consciences but there are always some who need/want something more.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:10 AM

27. What I came away with is that Politicians and not Soldiers ended slavery...

and that is the reason that every vote counts.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:15 AM

28. Best movie about politics ever, Best movie itself of 2012. Shows how doing the right thing &

 

compromise are what great leaders like
Lincoln
FDR
LBJ
Obama
Carter
have done to secure forward movement

and it shows how it took 100 years from Lincoln to LBJ
and 50 more years from LBJ to Obama

and how it takes wheeling and dealing and doing WHATEVER is necessary to get it done

it also shows very importantly-how letting the other side think they are walking away with their dignity (and NOT being so 100% rigid on both sides like the tea party and some progressives as opposed to liberals, on the left do) allows it all to happen.

And it shows what an honorable, charitable man President Lincoln was.
He did allow the losing side to just get full amnesty and citizenship(a look ahead to the coming immigration end of that problem in later 2013) as opposed to massacre after the war ended.
For the good of the ENTIRE country

Kudos to Spielberg, Tony K, and all the actors/actresses
Daniel Day Lewis became Lincoln and for the first time, we had a voice for Lincoln
Sally Field
Tommy Lee Jones (and the wig he wore was exactly what the pictures of Stevens are, spot on)
and all the other actors/actresses in the movie

There is a reason Lincoln is considered the greatest President ever.
It's a shame he left the world so quick. Who knows what greatness was still to come afterwards from President Lincoln. Had he lived, it might not have taken 100 years til LBJ signed the acts.

And the man who was Stevens, what a fascinating character he was. A true American patriot.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:21 AM

30. I just saw it tonight.

 

Loved it. I wish it could have been a series , even at 2.5 hours it seemed short.

I liked it especially for the grotty directness and down on the mud sense of 19th century democracy. Nowadays the forces ate often the same, but the corporate sterility of the process makes it seemed removed from humanity and society.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:30 AM

31. Saw it before Christmas

It's a reminder of the Mark Twain's quote, "Those that respect the law and love sausage should watch neither being made.". The corruption is a little more blatant, but it just goes to show that Washington hasn't changed mucn in the last 150 years.

To me, Barak is the culmination of what Lincoln had fought for in the 13th Amendment. And while the Republicans and Democrats have essentially changed sides, the arguements are still the same.

It shows me that the Civil War had never been forgotten, that old attitudes die hard, and that Barak is still fighting Lincoln's fight, 150 years later.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:48 AM

32. I saw it a couple weeks ago. :spoilers:

 

I thought it was brilliant. I thought DDL really captured the great man's spirit. Great cast, great writing, excellent direction, I can't praise it enough.

Even though you knew what the result would be, there was incredible tension and suspense during the roll call. When Yeaman shouts out in the affirmative after barely uttering his response the first time, I wanted to cheer out loud.

And I'm glad we were spared having to see the assassination. The way they did it was heartbreaking enough.

I walked away from this film the way I put down the Team of Rivals book. Devastated, in tears and bitterly resentful that the country was denied the leadership of this giant, that he was not allowed to finish his work. How different this country would have been had he lived.

I see Oscars in the future.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)


Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:26 PM

35. Really glad the film didn't kick up the racist hatred that caused his assasination

Which is the largest part of the story: The ruthlessness of hatred. The willingness to kill and risk your own children for your own hatred.

The freedom of slaves wasn't really the problem, as much as the threat to the white's economic upper-hand. There were several characters who openly admitted that they wouldn't tolerate blacks stealing their prosperity. It was more financial than ideological.

This was about how good people can't escape the damage done by evil, greed, and jealousy.

But luckily, Spielberg kept it about Lincoln's goodness, and resisted the temptation to embellish his film with that hate.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:50 PM

37. I doubt I'll ever forgive him for what he did to Maryland.

I would've been a happy unionist until he decided on his own authority that we both remained subject to US authority, but weren't entitled to any of its protections.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:27 PM

38. I watched it with my mom yesterday. We both enjoyed it very much.

 

I liked the narrow focus on the 13th Amendment.

Tommy Lee Jones' portrayal of Thaddeus Stevens is enough of a reason to see the movie.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 12:52 AM

39. I saw it tonight.

Enjoyed it thoroughly. Tons of interesting characters walking through.

All about arm twisting and patronage to get votes--Lincoln even mentioned the sleazy politicians of Tammany Hall.

DDL is great in just about any role. I've seen The Crucible, Gangs of New York, In the Name of the Father, Last of the Mohicans and The Age of Innocence.

Loved the story about Ethan Allen in London. Goes to the bathroom and there's a picture of George Washington on the wall. Then his British hosts tell him "Nothing will make an Englishman shit like a picture of George Washington on the wall."



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