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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:38 AM

With the destructive power of guns increasing year over year something HAS to be done

The status quo and the crazy wayne fantasies of a dystopian police state cannot work with exponential increases in firepower happening all the time. At some point the destructive power of a bullet, encased along with hundreds of bullets in assault rifles, will be economically destructive, as well as the human tragedy (which for the most part does not seem to affect the emotions of people like crazy wayne and the NRA - i've heard him say something similar on TV).

This is becoming a case of mutually assured destruction.

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Reply With the destructive power of guns increasing year over year something HAS to be done (Original post)
samsingh Dec 2012 OP
jmg257 Dec 2012 #1
samsingh Dec 2012 #6
Recursion Dec 2012 #21
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #29
samsingh Dec 2012 #114
marions ghost Dec 2012 #111
slackmaster Dec 2012 #2
samsingh Dec 2012 #3
slackmaster Dec 2012 #5
samsingh Dec 2012 #7
slackmaster Dec 2012 #9
samsingh Dec 2012 #17
exboyfil Dec 2012 #19
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #23
exboyfil Dec 2012 #30
sir pball Dec 2012 #31
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #44
sir pball Dec 2012 #51
sir pball Dec 2012 #53
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #64
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #159
jpak Dec 2012 #128
slackmaster Dec 2012 #130
jpak Dec 2012 #138
slackmaster Dec 2012 #139
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #160
NightWatcher Dec 2012 #8
slackmaster Dec 2012 #10
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #12
samsingh Dec 2012 #15
samsingh Dec 2012 #78
mmonk Dec 2012 #4
Recursion Dec 2012 #11
ileus Dec 2012 #13
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #14
samsingh Dec 2012 #16
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #20
samsingh Dec 2012 #22
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #26
samsingh Dec 2012 #36
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #46
samsingh Dec 2012 #71
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #86
samsingh Dec 2012 #91
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #99
samsingh Dec 2012 #100
samsingh Dec 2012 #104
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #110
samsingh Dec 2012 #115
jmg257 Dec 2012 #117
samsingh Dec 2012 #118
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #126
samsingh Dec 2012 #119
jmg257 Dec 2012 #121
samsingh Dec 2012 #122
jmg257 Dec 2012 #123
samsingh Dec 2012 #124
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #127
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #59
samsingh Dec 2012 #69
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #73
samsingh Dec 2012 #75
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #79
samsingh Dec 2012 #82
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #88
samsingh Dec 2012 #89
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #97
samsingh Dec 2012 #102
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #112
samsingh Dec 2012 #113
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samsingh Dec 2012 #136
samsingh Dec 2012 #137
Kaleva Dec 2012 #49
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #61
backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #18
samsingh Dec 2012 #24
backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #27
samsingh Dec 2012 #32
Recursion Dec 2012 #34
samsingh Dec 2012 #37
Recursion Dec 2012 #39
samsingh Dec 2012 #42
Recursion Dec 2012 #47
bongbong Dec 2012 #56
Recursion Dec 2012 #65
bongbong Dec 2012 #66
Recursion Dec 2012 #67
bongbong Dec 2012 #68
samsingh Dec 2012 #80
bongbong Dec 2012 #84
samsingh Dec 2012 #93
samsingh Dec 2012 #77
Recursion Dec 2012 #140
samsingh Dec 2012 #143
Recursion Dec 2012 #145
samsingh Dec 2012 #146
Jenoch Dec 2012 #151
samsingh Dec 2012 #152
samsingh Dec 2012 #72
backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #52
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #28
samsingh Dec 2012 #33
Recursion Dec 2012 #35
samsingh Dec 2012 #38
Recursion Dec 2012 #43
Kaleva Dec 2012 #60
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #62
Kaleva Dec 2012 #63
samsingh Dec 2012 #74
Recursion Dec 2012 #141
samsingh Dec 2012 #142
Recursion Dec 2012 #144
samsingh Dec 2012 #147
samsingh Dec 2012 #148
Recursion Dec 2012 #150
samsingh Dec 2012 #153
Recursion Dec 2012 #149
samsingh Dec 2012 #154
Recursion Dec 2012 #155
samsingh Dec 2012 #156
Recursion Dec 2012 #158
samsingh Dec 2012 #161
Recursion Dec 2012 #163
samsingh Dec 2012 #162
Recursion Dec 2012 #164
samsingh Dec 2012 #165
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #48
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #41
EnviroBat Dec 2012 #25
samsingh Dec 2012 #40
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #45
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #50
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #55
Berserker Dec 2012 #57
samsingh Dec 2012 #70
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #81
samsingh Dec 2012 #83
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #85
samsingh Dec 2012 #92
the antigun Dec 2012 #54
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #58
shintao Dec 2012 #76
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #94
samsingh Dec 2012 #95
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #96
samsingh Dec 2012 #103
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #105
samsingh Dec 2012 #106
samsingh Dec 2012 #107
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #108
samsingh Dec 2012 #109
marions ghost Dec 2012 #120
closeupready Dec 2012 #116
samsingh Dec 2012 #157
dionysus Dec 2012 #166
X_Digger Dec 2012 #167
samsingh Dec 2012 #168
X_Digger Dec 2012 #169
samsingh Dec 2012 #170

Response to samsingh (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:40 AM

1. What do you suggest? nt

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:44 AM

6. just that something will have to be done and 2nd amendment proponents can't keep ignoring

reality as it starts to disintegrate tragedy after tragedy.

i would not deign to be able to define a workable solution given that i do not have the time or knowledge to thoroughly investigate all the options. But some government will, if not the current one. When someone can stand outside a building a spray a thousand grenade like bullets into the structure - economics and self-preservation, if not humanity and caring for others, will drive solutions

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Response to samsingh (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:31 AM

21. Grenade-like bullets? (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:58 AM

29. Its their "when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" moment.

Pure comedy.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:34 AM

114. you just like making shit up

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Response to samsingh (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:23 AM

111. I tend to agree that it will be economics that causes changes--

not humanity and caring for others. We are living in a society where economics rules, not people or their concerns. And more and more, people just become numb to being abused.

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Response to samsingh (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:40 AM

2. A false premise does not lead to a productive discussion

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:41 AM

3. no productive discussion has been happening since 1995

witness the massacres

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Response to samsingh (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:44 AM

5. I'd set the date at 1913

 

The massacre of Armenians by the Turks.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:45 AM

7. let's try to stick with American history during our lifetimes

unless you were born before 1913 - not sure we have any voting influence in Turkey.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:46 AM

9. The "destructive power" of guns has not increased in a long, long time

 

HTH

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:04 AM

17. well it's not you i'm trying to convince in any case, but expressing my opinion

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:07 AM

19. 12 gauge semiautomatic shotguns

with 20 round drum magazines. That is a heck of lot of firepower for a civilian. .223 rounds optimized for maximum wound size combined with 30 and 100 round semiautomatic fed magazines.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:42 AM

23. Can you find one example of a homicide involving a semi-automatic shotgun with a 20 round magazine ?

Hell, any shotgun homicide is a fairly infrequent occurrence...they barely register on DOJ data.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:00 PM

30. Just wait

It is not about the event, it is about the probability that it will happen. Lanza had a 12 gauge semiauto with an extended magazine in the trunk of his car. The question was no more firepower (actually the original post was poorly worded) than in the 1970s. I am making the assertion that unprecedented firepower is in the hands of civilians, and at some point that firepower will be used.

"Regarding semi-automatic cyclic rate of fire, we witnessed the Saiga fire twenty-eight ( 28 ) 12 gauge rounds, on target, in just under 14 seconds. The shooter had 10 rounds in the first mag and downloaded the second and third mags to 9 rounds to increase mag insertion speed."

I have also seen a video of someone using bump fire and putting 20 rounds with a reasonable level of accuracy if you don't care what you are hitting.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:02 PM

31. There's more of them than assault weapon murders

Hell, 2011 was the first year that there were more rifle homicides than shotgun homicides and that includes ALL rifles, not just "assault" types.

I guess if you want to spend all your political capital (and you will) on controlling one type of weapon, shotguns would be a better choice than rifles. I mean, handguns would be the best, but there's just no emotional appeal to be had there.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:10 PM

44. Right. Handguns are about 75% of homicides.

That means rifles of all types (semi, bolt action, assault) PLUS shotguns of all types, plus other firearms, are divided among the remaing 25%. I didn't check the numbers, but it's likely shotgun homicides are in single digit percentage of all homicides.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:22 PM

51. 2.8%

12,664 homicides in 2011 356 by shotgun = 0.0281

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

I was reading the table backwards though, there were a few more shotgun killings than rifle crimes.

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