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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:54 AM

 

Why do some people want total transparency of all politicians,but cry privacy for themselves?

it seems hypocritical to me for those that admire the hackers publishing everything
and yet hate a newspaper printing the names of NRA members when those donating to politicans are an open book

If everything was out in the open, nobody would have anything to hide, the world would be
a better place.

(btw-for some who in another thread said if your medical records were exposed you could lose your insurance, well, that is why insurance for all should be manditory. IMHO).

Same if some congressman has to be transparent 24/7 so should any other profession.

And it would be a good thing

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Reply Why do some people want total transparency of all politicians,but cry privacy for themselves? (Original post)
graham4anything Dec 2012 OP
Remmah2 Dec 2012 #1
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #2
JohnnyBoots Dec 2012 #3
Arcanetrance Dec 2012 #4
karynnj Dec 2012 #35
graham4anything Dec 2012 #5
LineLineReply ?
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #10
GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #6
graham4anything Dec 2012 #8
oddoneout Dec 2012 #7
graham4anything Dec 2012 #9
oddoneout Dec 2012 #24
oddoneout Dec 2012 #26
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #29
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #11
graham4anything Dec 2012 #12
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #30
graham4anything Dec 2012 #14
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #17
graham4anything Dec 2012 #19
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #23
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #15
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #16
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #21
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #22
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #28
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #36
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #39
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #43
graham4anything Dec 2012 #34
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #37
graham4anything Dec 2012 #38
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #13
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #31
graham4anything Dec 2012 #33
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #41
NCTraveler Dec 2012 #18
graham4anything Dec 2012 #20
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #25
graham4anything Dec 2012 #32
woo me with science Dec 2012 #27
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #40
rock Dec 2012 #42

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:04 AM

1. You have a lot in common with my mother-in-law.

 

She can't keep anything secret.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:06 AM

2. Hello, Mr Zuckerberg

This seems to be Facebook's basic philosophy on privacy. There shouldn't be any.

If our medical records were exposed, some of us would not get hired. Companies would use the records to pre-screen applicants. Romney would love it.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:07 AM

3. Politicians are public figures

 

Private citizens are not and have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:08 AM

4. Because unlike politicians I'm not living in the public eye and choosing to represent people

When you choose to be a politician you choose to live in the public eye meanwhile as a private individual I have lived a life striving to retain my anonymity

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:05 AM

35. Living in the public eye is not the same as having everything 100% public

A politician, if he or she wants to be successful has to be willing to "give" more of their privacy up. How much depends on the area they represent and what their culture is.

However, all will draw a line and keep some of their life private. That extends even to the Presidency. One very good example is that while on some, very few occasions we see pictures of the Obama daughters, we hear almost nothing about them - and that is a good thing.

In addition, I do not expect the public persona of a politician to be the same as his private persona. The public persona is likely to be more polite and more respectful to everyone. This, by the way, does not mean a lack of honesty. It provides the politician with a degree of differencing himself or herself, while treating the people represented in a responsive way.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:16 AM

5. Politicans are common people. The original intent was for everyone to be part of the system

 

Everyone is supposed to do jury duty, yet so many regular people opt out

A politician is not above or below a common person. they are you and me. Just average people.

That was what was envisioned at any rate.

But transparency is a good thing.
For instant, I know if a billionaire gives to charity, what charities they give to. Therefore you can divide the good ones and bad ones and not stereotype all of them.

A politician that donates billions all to liberal causes and doesn't do it publicly though the info is public, would to me be a liberal. So that is good to know

And we all should be public figures, like it is suppose to be

None of this private vs. public. That again is just a wedge issue

BTW-make more federal laws to not discriminate against health issues(which is on the books anyhow) would make the wedge issue mentioned above obsolete

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:26 AM

10. ?

Guess I am not following here.

How do you know what charities a billionaire donates to? You know what he claims on his tax returns, if you can get your hands on them. But as far as anything that he does not want you to know ... you don't know.

And a politician that "donates billions"? Heh. What?

Private is private. It is none of your business what I do, what groups I belong to, and how and where I spend my money.

A government employee works for me, so I should know where he spends my money, and on what.

That would be the difference.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:17 AM

6. Your profile is enlightening.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:22 AM

8. Which profile? Are you another misreading it?

 

are you going to be another one totally misreading it?

do you mean this one-
Number of posts, last 90 days: 2863
Favorite forum: General Discussion, 1849 posts in the last 90 days (65% of total posts)
Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 355 posts in the last 90 days (12% of total posts)

you do realize that 100% of every post in the gun control section is against the gun and the NRA don't you?

Just wondering. Too many people keep misreading that and are too lazy to bother to look before smearing someone.

I have nothing to hide, go read my posts, I welcome it
If you are against guns, come join me, there are only about 10-20 pro-gun people in that seciton though so it is not that hard to combat those memes

I am not embarrassed. It shows I will go into home areas to argue my point of view.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:20 AM

7. because we are

 

supposed to know what is going on in the government...you are not supposed to know what is going on in my home. When you post a list of gun owners, their names and addresses, you are simply listing the law-abiding citizens and letting the criminals (who are not listed) pick their targets.

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Response to oddoneout (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:24 AM

9. You are the government.

 

and I thought the reason for security is to stop someone from entering in the first place

Isn't that why people spend thousands on alarms to get those groovy stickers to place in their windows and lawns so people don't come there?

or was that meme just a lie?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

24. why

 

do you believe everyone spends thousands on alarms? I know I can not afford any security from a third party. Can you?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:49 AM

26. If I am the government

 

I should be allowed to have guns since most government officials do...Right?

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Response to oddoneout (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:56 AM

29. The gun ownership list was a public record.

Public records are open unless specific laws state otherwise. Moreover, the press has an explicit constitutional protection covering what they print and an implicit obligation to keep us informed about all of society, public and private.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:30 AM

11. It's the job of politicians to tell the rest of us how to live

They are given power over others, in return some extra transparency is expected of them since history has shown that without that transparency politicians can and sometimes will engage in corrupt practices not possible for the average non politician.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:32 AM

12. so there are no criminals or regular people doing corrupt things? Only politicians?

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:57 AM

30. The press is supposed to keep us informed about that aspect.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:34 AM

14. They are us, voting for us. They don't have any power, just majority rules.

 

And majority rules is how our country is suppose to work.

And if everyone ran for office, then everyone would be transparent.
And their voice would mean something

Just like a jury.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 AM

17. Um

Majority rules is not how our country is supposed to work.

Actually, it was set up to prevent to majority from stepping on the minority. Hence the electoral college system, and three branches.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:40 AM

19. ??? That is for compromise, not for wanting 100% and getting nothing.

 

But the in party gets what they want, that is our system.

as each party (and there are and always will be only two) has different wedge issues

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

23. The "in" party gets what they want?

What?

No they do not.

That is why there is gridlock, the system was designed to check itself all the way up the food chain. No one "gets what they want", policy moves in small steps.

What this has to do with the OP I have no idea. I merely stated that "majority rules" is not how our system is set up. You can argue that point with someone if you choose.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:35 AM

15. Holy hell

It's their job to tell me how to live?

Like what size soda I can buy? Or where I should work? Or how many children I should or should not have?

No ... the governments job is not to tell me how to live.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 AM

16. Who writes the laws but politicians?

Like what herbs you can have in your garden?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:43 AM

21. Of coarse politicians write laws

But it is the opposite of what you say. Politicians run on a platform, we elect them based on that platform. We tell them what we want them to do, not the opposite.

If you want your pot legalized, you have to convince the public that it is in the general interests of the country. Once the public is convinced they apply pressure to get our legislators to enact the laws that "we the people" want.

They do not tell us ... we tell them. If what they do is unpopular, we don't reelect them.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:47 AM

22. ...

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:51 AM

28. And?

Nice sound bite, I like him too.

What does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

He speaks about his plan for heath care, that is what he ran on and we elected him to work on that issue.

I do not understand what this clip is supposed to show?

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:13 AM

36. How do you think pot got illegal in the first place?

Do you think there was some groundswell among the public to make a common weed illegal and that those people influenced their legislators to pass the laws banning cannabis?

Because that's not at all the way it happened.

I hope you're not old enough to have been politically aware through the beginning of the Iraq War because that was something else that the public wasn't so hot about until there was a propaganda campaign in favor of invasion.

Arguably the worst foreign policy disaster in American history and the public had to be dragged to it really, Colin Powell lying in the UN among so much other propaganda.

ETA: The propaganda got deconstructed in real time right here on DU while it was happening and DU wasn't alone in that, the entire liberal blogosphere knew the Iraq war was a farce and incipient quagmire before it ever started.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:35 AM

39. look ... squirrel

You can go tangent on this all day, fine with me.

I would agree that the Iraq (2nd) war was one of the worst foreign policy disasters in recent history. But, the vote to go to war was not even close. And, when that vote was cast .. the war was popular, which is why the vote was not close.

How the public opinion got that way is a different story. Fact is fact, at the time of the vote to go to war in Iraq, the idea of that had HUGE public support.

How many of those people are still in office again? Kind of proves my point, does it not? Do things that are unpopular, you're outta there .. and your party as well.

As far as why weed is illegal, you can debate that all you like. One nice version, back in the '20's the people who wanted it made illegal started a media campaign to demonize weed. Weed was blamed for all sorts of things, and the companies who were to profit from it being illegal spent a butt load of money to sway public opinion. By the 30's there were major forces in play, with "devils weed", "refeer madness" and others leading the way.

Either way, banning of the plant had public support when it was passed.

How they got to that position is what the game is all about. You want the laws changed, you change public opinion, and then the public applies pressure to legislators to change policy.

You can pick up all the examples you like, and there will of coarse be exceptions to the rule. But, we tell them, not they tell us.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:47 PM

43. Do not

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:05 AM

34. buy 2 sodas. Nobody is stopping you

 

some people like a helping hand to tell them no

A kid could eat 100 twinkies...and throw up
a parent might say have one every once in a while
and the kid don't throw up

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:18 AM

37. So...

So the government should tell parents how many twinkies per week they can purchase? Determined buy the number of children they have?

If you need a "helping hand" to tell you no, go join a support group. I do not need the government telling me how big my soda is because some fat bastage can not control his urges.

Obviously the soda is just a current events example and I don't give a damn about it, I do not drink that swill anyways.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:25 AM

38. actually, you pay the health care forward

 

so it actually saves you money in the end

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:34 AM

13. I don't care about privacy. If society were more of an open book, we'd be better off. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:00 AM

31. What bit of privacy should be afforded to you?

Do you want the government in your bedroom? Maybe every call you make, every search you make should be open for all of us to see, right now. Would that be okay with you? Explain; "I don't care about privacy", please indulge the audience.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:03 AM

33. I charge 99.9% on my c/c. I use EZ pass. The supermarket knows I buy charmin

 

they already know

only if one is paranoid do they think otherwise

this is 2012

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:38 AM

41. WOW

I don't have anything to hide ... I do not mind if my phone is tapped.

It is ok if they read my mail ... I am not doing anything illegal.

Holy hell.



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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:40 AM

18. Read your headline.

Maybe read it a couple of times. It will sink in. The answer is right there.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:41 AM

20. it's easy-they are hypocrites

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:48 AM

25. to quote the Who, "Go To The Mirror"

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:02 AM

32. and Pete sang he hoped to go before he got old, and now he is old and bald and Roger is fat

 

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:50 AM

27. Wow.

If anyone ever doubted how sick the propaganda will get, here we have it.

'I don't care about my privacy!"

Just wow.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:37 AM

40. And people say Emo Progs seek attention

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:15 AM

42. There is nothing hypocritical about it

Public officials and private citizens. Get it?

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