HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Do they REALLY think MOOD...

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:44 AM

Do they REALLY think MOOD is the reason for less holiday spending??

How clueless are they anyway? Henry Ford (that miserable old bigot) had that one thing right. People can't buy stuff if they don't have any money.

That is a mistake of someone who is not in danger of having too much Month left at the end of the paycheck.

Is it willful ignorance or stupidity? This whole "supply side" business is pretty damn moldy as a philosophy and policy. Can we please bury it?

76 replies, 5097 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 76 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do they REALLY think MOOD is the reason for less holiday spending?? (Original post)
annabanana Dec 2012 OP
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #1
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #2
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #10
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #15
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #34
tblue37 Dec 2012 #22
global1 Dec 2012 #19
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #24
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #39
CTyankee Dec 2012 #32
PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #37
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #41
PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #52
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #58
Jim Warren Dec 2012 #67
HappyMe Dec 2012 #4
KansDem Dec 2012 #26
In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #3
tavalon Dec 2012 #61
GoCubsGo Dec 2012 #5
graham4anything Dec 2012 #6
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #14
CTyankee Dec 2012 #33
ieoeja Dec 2012 #23
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #51
adigal Dec 2012 #7
CTyankee Dec 2012 #35
tavalon Dec 2012 #62
kydo Dec 2012 #8
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #9
quaker bill Dec 2012 #11
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #12
Rain Mcloud Dec 2012 #13
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #42
tavalon Dec 2012 #63
Siwsan Dec 2012 #16
tavalon Dec 2012 #64
Siwsan Dec 2012 #75
tavalon Dec 2012 #76
Cracklin Charlie Dec 2012 #17
DJ13 Dec 2012 #56
LP2K12 Dec 2012 #18
sybylla Dec 2012 #20
Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #21
Myrina Dec 2012 #25
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #28
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #27
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #38
dkf Dec 2012 #29
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #30
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #31
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #36
plethoro Dec 2012 #40
daa Dec 2012 #43
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #44
plethoro Dec 2012 #47
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #48
plethoro Dec 2012 #69
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #70
plethoro Dec 2012 #71
jwirr Dec 2012 #45
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #50
ReRe Dec 2012 #46
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #49
QED Dec 2012 #53
lunasun Dec 2012 #60
QED Dec 2012 #73
tavalon Dec 2012 #65
QED Dec 2012 #74
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #54
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #55
lunatica Dec 2012 #57
tavalon Dec 2012 #66
lunatica Dec 2012 #68
Skittles Dec 2012 #59
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #72

Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:46 AM

1. My mood improves when I have money, so technically correct.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:48 AM

2. Funny how that works.

They always try to tell you its not about the paycheck but when I have a paycheck, I feel better about everything and that paycheck makes me able to buy the things I need.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:40 AM

10. There was a study out a while ago saying...

...that money DOES by happiness up to about $75,000 a year. All the more reason for a minimum wage that is a living wage. And to tax the rich.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Odin2005 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:26 AM

15. Can you imagine what Christmas shopping would have been like for retailers if they paid their people

If they paid people $75,000/year, people would have enough money to shop for Christmas gifts and then some and the economy would scream along like a jet.

But the greedy want it on both ends, low wages, increased sales and high profits at all costs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:20 AM

34. Yep, 'cause they think a reaganomics trickle-down-piss system works so well and

Last edited Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:16 AM - Edit history (1)

can only be fixed/maintained through austerity. I have no idea how it's going to be fixed, but one can be sure these guys aren't going to do sh** to fix anything if it costs them a buck in a rigged corrupt greed-filled economic system. Damn I miss George Carlin.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Odin2005 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:39 AM

22. Those who say money can't buy happiness

overlook the fact that having enough money can protect a person from a lot of things that cause misery.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:36 AM

19. And When You Buy Things You Need You Pay Taxes & Create Jobs To Make More Of Those Things You Buy...

so other people have a bigger paycheck so they can buy things they need and pay taxes and that puts more people to work to make more stuff for others to buy and pay taxes. All those taxes that are paid - go back into the system to support those things that keep the world around us functioning optimally - like roads, police, fire, libraries, etc.

So if these merchants want to see more people out buying during the holiday seasons - the trick is to pay their employees well so that they could go out and buy things to. They should pay a decent wage so that ultimately everyone feels better about everything and their paychecks make them able to buy the things that they need.

This isn't rocket science. This is the stuff that feeds this economy and makes it work. When jobs go away or when people are worried about how they are going to make it from week to week - then they stop spending. They hunker down. So yes - mood plays into this equation.

It seems to me that we can leap out of this economic funk we are in if all employers would just increase peoples pay and make them feel secure in their jobs.

When people feel secure and know that they have some money to spend - they spend it. When they spend it - it creates opportunities for others to be able to feel secure and spend their money. People start going out to restaurants to eat. They go to see movies. They travel. They buy appliances. They buy other items to make their day to day living more comfortable.

The system feeds itself. This generates jobs for others. Pays for social programs. Provides the governments - local, state and federal with the funds to be able to afford all those things that makes the government function optimally.

Again - its not rocket science and we can climb out of this mood depression/recession tomorrow if only this was the path that corporations and business would embrace rather than cutting back, laying people off, offshoring, outsourcing, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:46 AM

24. Why is it that this simple economic fact has been removed from the US economy?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:41 AM

39. +++ 1,000,000 +++ Pure and Simple! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:13 AM

32. In my Econ class I beleive it was called "the wealth effect." Correct me if I'm wrong...but it

is an actual term that I remember from my graduate studies (one of them being Econ).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal N proud (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:24 AM

37. Funny....

I have a paycheck. I am NOT happy.
My paycheck runs out well before the month does.
I MUST work 40hrs/wk EVERY week or I fall behind on something.
Mind you I live alone, in a trailer park, single-wide. My needs are modest if not low. I don't want much, just a decent wage to make living not so on the edge.
Utilities, lot rent, food, vehicle ins, vehicle fuel and meds, then the money is gone.
When my house got foreclosed on, I got a storage for a lot of my stuff- mostly garage. Haven't been able to afford to make a payment on it since. It's probably gone and collectors are calling.
I can't even go out to breakfast when I lose power without going over-budget.
Vehicle breaks... I'm out of a job because I can't get to work.

I'm a memeber of the under-employed and working poor. I make over min. wage, but not a lot more.
I don't see how people can make it making min. wage. If I did, I'd be living in a shelter and eating at the local soup kitchen.
I have skills, but I'm not very marketable... I'm over 50, no degree, bad credit and savings are gone. Even though discrimination because of age is illegal, who is going to hire someone 50+ for a good wage? Easier and CHEAPER to hire some young'n for half as much and train him/her up. Don't think that isn't one of the most often discriminatory abuses there is.

I used to make much more... before I got laid off
I was, along with my s/o, bless her heart, part of the middle-class. Lower end, but still middle class. We could afford our two Harleys, could go out to dinner on occasion, afford xmas. When the house got forclosed on, we parted ways. Now? Well...



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticalBiker (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:58 AM

41. Here it's getting hard to pay the grocery bills. Five major corporations I worked for, all gone

now because of corporate greed at the top and mismanagement. Of course, the guys at the top made out just fine, but 10's of thousands of others are left without jobs, and they went offshore and that included high-paying R&D jobs. So, anyone tells me we need more education, fuck them. This is NOT about education and skill sets, much of it's about greed, mismanagement and a dumb-fuck obsolete system called capitalism whose time has come and passed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RKP5637 (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:35 PM

52. I still believe in capitalism...

... but much more regulated.
Executives should not be able to make obscene, ulimited amouts of money while their workers are paid a pittance non-living wages where job secuity is a thing of the past. The stresses workers are under and the threat of termination for anything at all on the forefront of management coersion tactics are making working conditions intolerable.
As much as I dislike the current incarnation of unions, they are again, much needed in every sector of the job market. Like when unions just started, the working conditions for the workers are abhorrant. Worker organization was needed. Used to, it was the physical working conditions... dangerous to the physical body as well as wages. Now... dangerous to the mental body as well as wages. More and more gets piled on less and less people and they are getting paid less and less with absolutely no recourse. Couple that with the republicon assault (war) on worker rights, wages and union membership, we are fastly becoming a Facist Oligarchy.
The outrage MUST continue... in fact, it needs to be expanded. The mainstream major media has to be forced to cover the truth... not what makes them brownie points with their investors/shareholders.
Employers have to be forced to pay living wages to their workers and executive salary and benefit packages must be severly curtailed to pay for it. Back in the 50's (where the republicons want to go back to except for salaries of the execs and tax rates), when the country was prosperous, the CEO's lived on the same street as the worker. Their houses were a bit bigger, but not the mansions you see today. They shopped at the same stores as their workers and ate at the same resturants. The workers bought the goods they made... because they had the money to do so. Workers were paid enough to live on... unlike today where workers pay for the extravgance of the executive with their lifestyle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticalBiker (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:19 PM

58. Yes, I agree 100% with you, about the type of capitalism you discussed. ... problem is, as you

outlined, the capitalistic system today has been rigged to work against most Americans. We need a well regulated capitalistic system. Today, most workers have nowhere to turn. HR, what a joke, that's like talking to the executioner for help.

Your reply was extremely well said!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticalBiker (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:19 AM

67. Couple really good posts biker

In similar shoes, best to ya and hang in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:50 AM

4. I agree.

Some dollars in the pocket make for a better mood.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:48 AM

26. So true. I find that I'm elated every other Thursday...

geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...geld...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:48 AM

3. I hope they aren't that stupid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to In_The_Wind (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:08 AM

61. Oh, yes, they really, really are

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:54 AM

5. That's a good part of it, but...

There's also the MSM's fear-mongering over this "fiscal cliff" bullshit. It has been relentless, and it's not surprising that it's scaring the crap out of the low-information types.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:57 AM

6. Who says there is less holiday spending?

 

Just because brick/mortar stores might be down, online is up

so I can't say that there is any less spending

besides, Holidays should be about non-commercial things anyhow.
Best gifts I ever get are ones made not purchased.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:23 AM

14. Online dropped too

But I think there are many reasons for this. In addition to the reasons already listed on this thread, here are a couple of others:

1) I am sick of this "war on Christmas" bullcrap. The retailers didn't cause this directly, but the idea of hyping "Christmas sales" as early as September is ridiculous. And most Christians go along with this. I guess they think it is free advertising for their brand. In recent years I've decided to do minimal shopping during that season. If I want something in March, I buy it in March. If somebody needs something in June, I buy it is June. Why would anybody buy anything non-essential in December, knowing that the prices are likely to be lower in January?

2) I manage several holiday-related events, and part of that is small holiday-themed prizes. I buy these months ahead. If I see something in April at a good price that would make a good prize, I buy it, and I might buy 2 or 3 years' worth. I know other people who approach their "Christmas shopping" the same way. This is where online retailers have a big advantage because brick-and-mortar retailers don't offer stock at that time.

Personally, I think it is a very healthy, optimistic sign that people are resisting the year-end retailing orgy. Maybe they will take their kids to see a show or take the time to read a book to them rather than just buy them another violent video game to stack on top of the 50 they already have.

It is time for Americans to take stock: of our entire system, of our politicians, of our own priorities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueStreak (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:19 AM

33. Or, people like me have actual spending budgets for xmas. It is a line item in my personal yearly

budget. A lot of people don't want to make a budget for fear it will be too psychologically damaging, when actually it is the OPPOSITE, I have found, much to my delight! I can look and see what is running over budget (like fuel bills) and what is running on budget, then I look in the "discretionary spending" section (stuff I can control as opposed to "fixed and allocated"). I delight in little ways I can save money, such as having my hair cut every 5 weeks instead of 4. Budgeting for one vacation instead of 2 or 3 little ones or vice versa. Consulting my closet instead of running out and buying something new but unnecessary. It is kind of a game but I enjoy it, along with clipping coupons and buying good quality food but on sale or just giving up something really unnecessary in the first place (chewing gum, flavored seltzer water, etc).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:42 AM

23. Nobody said there was actually less holiday spending.


Overall sales were up 0.7% from last year. They were predicting sales to be up 3% to 4%. So it is "less" than expected. But still "more" than last year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ieoeja (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:26 PM

51. Right. An expectations game.

The thought process was that it should be up more because the last several years have been lower than pre-2008 when you adjust for inflation. And also one would think it should grow in proportion to the population growth.

Our whole economic system (fractional banking and credit) is only viable with a growing population and a growing economic base. It is like a Ponzi scheme. It just doesn't work in a steady state.

We need to enter a serious worldwide discussion about what a society looks like that can provide a quality of life WITHOUT overpopulating, WITHOUT polluting, WITHOUT stealing resources from the less powerful people of the world. There is plenty of capacity to make that happen, but you can't feed the billionaire beast and also have a sustainable society. We are nearing the time when we'll have to face that. For 30 years, Americans have seen this up close and personal. In another 30 years, it will be everywhere. I'll p[probably be dead, but I hope to see the world at least begin to deal with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:13 AM

7. And my small shop was up

We have local and American made goods, only. Maybe everyone is buying locally and with more cash.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to adigal (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:21 AM

35. I pay cash now when I have pedicures and it saves me a surcharge. That enables me to keep

tipping at the 20% level, which is very important to me. And yes, as I can older pedicures are worth it to keep my toenails in good shape since I can't bend and do it myself and have no family members around to help on a regular basis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to adigal (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:10 AM

62. Doing my best on that

Spending locally, I mean. And no credit cards. I am a debit card queen though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:33 AM

8. well, yeah they do and it is part of it kind of, but

mood is a catch all phrase. Lots of things effect mood, and it is regional. The biggest factor in mood is employment. If your job is not in jeopardy and your income is steady, all the doom gloom, massacres, end of the world, and blizzards probably don't effect your mood as much.

But if your home was destroyed in Sandy, if you working for a company that is going to be effected by the self made republican trap aka fiscal cliff, if you are any where near Sandy Hook and or employed in the education system, if you are in unions, if you are unemployed, if you are on a fixed income, if you watch tv, if you like milk, if you don't want to live in a police state, then your mood and bank account may have effected your holiday mood and holiday spending.

But mood is just a part of the bad sales. For me I refuse to buy crap I don't need for people that in most cases I barely know or don't even like (yeah, family). I hate Christmas shopping. I gave up years ago trying to live up to the media version of a perfect Christmas.

I also refuse to shop at certain stores, and eat at certain places because of their stupid owners. And I hate being told to shop! Especially when I don't really need anything.

Mood however while is part of the reason for bad Holiday sales, the mood just reflects all the reasons why we can't buy things. When they really start to try and figure out why we are in a bad mood most will find we are sick and tired of being sick and tired of being poor and buying things on credit and then being poor again and their stuff sucks and the crowds suck.

So yeah no money usually means no spending so probably a bad mood. And thats how its a apart of it. Besides tomorrow we will all move on and talk about something else and our moods will still suck cause we still won't have money. And then it will be spring.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 AM

9. Rich people don't understand what it is like living from paycheck to paycheck.

They think the 99% buys things the same way they and their fellow 1%ers buy investments.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:56 AM

11. My sales were up

However I do not press through the holidays as my fall show season ends with Thanksgiving weekend. I caught a burst of spending right after the election. I do not know if it was sustained.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:04 AM

12. No money was my issue and I work full time for the state

I live within my means and by no account am wasteful or have the latest anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:07 AM

13. If you have no money

 

then you are supposed to max out the credit cards.
Otherwise you have no balls/ovaries and are a stinking atheist,commie!
Is that not the real message here?
Consume!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rain Mcloud (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:02 AM

42. Yep, if you're not in debt up to your ears in US, Inc. = United Stupidity, then that's

exactly what one is, a stinking atheist, commie! The American Dream = total debt and foreclosure. GO USA!!! GO USA!!! GO USA!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rain Mcloud (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:11 AM

63. And here I thought I was a socialist

No credit cards. If I don't have the money, I don't buy the thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:29 AM

16. Maybe people are paying more attention to needs and less to wants

There are a lot of things I want, but I'd rather have the money available for unexpected needs. Don't get me wrong, I don't live an austere lifestyle but I can be more comfortable without the worry of how I would pay for a new furnace, roof, or unforeseen medical expenses.

My rule of thumb is, if I can't afford to pay cash for a want, and still have cash left, it stays a want. And I mean cash, not through a credit or debit card. If I have to watch that cash go from my hand to someone else's hand, I'm more likely to be mindful of what I'm spending and if it's worth what I'm spending it on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Siwsan (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:13 AM

64. A debit card is just like cash

You can't go beyond what you have in your checking account. I find I have more accountability to myself when I use my checking debit card than when I use cash.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tavalon (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:39 AM

75. I know they are, but the actual slight line of cash flow keeps me financially grounded

I had a debit card and never used it. Admittedly I have a slight paranoia about leaving an electronic spending trail but by living a pretty much cash only life for day to day usual purchases, my spending always stays under control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Siwsan (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:03 PM

76. And I find that cash just leaks from me

And it sounds like otherwise, you and I are on the same page. No deficit spending in this house or yours.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:33 AM

17. Hubs and I watched the local evening news last night.

In a thirty minute broadcast, there were four stories about going shopping on the day after Christmas, and how that was the busiest shopping day of the year. Just a couple of weeks ago, it was a different day that was the busiest.

I think they may be starting to realize that not enough people have enough money to spend on non-essentials.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:03 PM

56. the day after Christmas, the busiest shopping day of the year

For the first time in many years I went shopping yesterday morning when the stores opened up for a couple of small items my wife and I needed.

Went to our local Sears at 8am, just after the doors opened and for the 15 minutes I was in there I only saw one other customer.

Very (very) low customer counts at Best Buy, Walmart, and Target as well.

No real sales (outside of Xmas stuff @ 50% off) either, so I dont see where the retail industry gets off claiming the sales are so great the day after Christmas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:35 AM

18. Mood was my issue.

Rarely is it my wife looking forward to Christmas in our household. It's usually me, but this year I didn't find the spirit until maybe a day or two before.

Money/finances was not the issue.

I'm sure it was for many though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:39 AM

20. Was it mood or the fact that there wasn't really anything all that worthy to buy?

I don't disagree with you. I think that for a lot of people, mood=paycheck (including one person I'm living with who lost her job in May). Kind of hard to spend money when you don't have any.

But I don't have paycheck woes to speak of beyond the usual middleclass stuff. So when we got over our Thanksgiving colds and I headed out to the stores, I was prepared to be wooed and wowed by the "great deals" the MSM were telling me that retailers were offering.

I saw none.

Not one great deal. In fact, the store that I usually do most of my shopping at had very few of the items on sale that I usually buy at the holidays. So I went to another. Found a few better deals there, but still not much to speak of.

I had a certain amount of money set aside for the holidays - a dollar amount that hasn't changed for several years. Even loaning some of it to the unemployed person in my household for x-mas gifts, I can tell you I spent only about 2/3rds of what I set aside.

Worst shopping season for me ever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:39 AM

21. You always get a series of wacky explanations when the economy goes bad

I remember reading them in 2007 and 2008 - mostly the weather, but I also saw explanations as varied as the consumers didn't like the merchandise to the color that the store walls were painted was wrong.

It is ridiculous, but there is a whole industry out there bent on selling consulting, so you always see this.

One interesting note - store closures continue to mount, so "comparable store" increases in retail sales this year start with a lower denominator in most cases. For some chains, a small "comparable store" sales increase can translate into an overall small decrease.

We know that people just don' t have money. Watch the electronic sales in particular - that will be very telling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:47 AM

25. I heard a couple talking heads try to blame it on 'fear of the cliff' ...

... honestly, they'll say anything to preserve the tax breaks for their billionaire bosses ....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Myrina (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:53 AM

28. I think it's true. I saw a shopper on tv interviewed in the mall, who said that...

fear of the fiscal cliff and taxes going up. So she wasn't spending as much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:52 AM

27. Henry Ford didn't really think that way. It was his WIFE who made him give raises to his workers.

Not because she was altruistic, but because of the strikes at the Ford factories (some workers were killed, I believe), the situation had gotten serious enough to threaten the existence of the company. And Ford's wife wanted that company to exist, so it could be passed down to their children. So, she told him that he needed to give raises to his workers, or she'd leave him. He caved in, tired and out of steam after long fighting giving his workers decent wages.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:30 AM

38. That's really how all the robber barons were.

They just had varied degrees of lousiness . . . Jay Gould & Hank Frick being on the low end of the scale, Rockefeller and Field in the middle, and Andrew Carnegie providing some sense of legacy and charity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:56 AM

29. So if holiday spending actually increased 0.7% does that mean people are in a good mood?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:56 AM

30. Shopping is a reflection of "consumer confidence" in the economy, is what I've always heard.

Whether in good times or bad times, year after year, that's been a consistent message.

As for me, shopping at Christmas depends on a lot of factors. How much $ I have to spend, how confident I am in keeping my job, what do others need or want.

I'm spending more this year than last because a niece graduated college, and a relative in a nursing home needs a couple of things that were stolen. I'm also buying a few clothing items for myself because I have some special work functions to attend next year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:10 AM

31. It is greed, willful stupidity/ignorance and a serious lack of business sense. As business leaders

they are an absolute failure. Supply side economics requires a demand. In this case the demand is fueled by discretionary income $$$$$. This is not a hard concept to understand. I had to study economics for 2 years as a core university requirement. I don't think most of these guys could make it through a grade school level economics course. Of course, then again, they are blinded by greed and keep pumping the supply side wondering WTF, why aren't people happy and buying ... a huge DUH. In the land of United Stupidity = US ...

Some days, it's just not worth it, often I think only a catastrophic financial failure will wake these fools up! That's how FDR came about.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:22 AM

36. Unfortunately . . .

. .. the idiots who subscribe lovingly to "Trickle Down" think people having too much month at the end of the money means "TAX CUTZ!!" are needed, and not "higher wages".

The owners want us to consume, but don't want to part with even one cent of their precious hoarded wealth/profit/cash store for us to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:47 AM

40. My wife and I decided to spend less this year on Christmas once we learned of

 

Obama's intention to cut Social Security. We normally give a little of what we have to charity quarterly when I'm doing ET. We will reduce this amount now. The neighbors are scaling back even further than us. We went and saw Les Miserables Christmas Day. I wondered during the movie if this is what it will be like. The periodic cuts to the safety net... Well, I don't care what the rich do, but my family is scaling back. But, if in the end, we have to hide behind furniture and fire whatever weapons the government has left us into military companies armed with machine guns, then that's the way it will be. Better that then being on the one end of an email going into a round file.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to plethoro (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:10 AM

43. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to plethoro (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:13 AM

44. I think the future is going to be pretty bleak for the majority of Americans, because

austerity seems to be the only solution TPTB come up with. And more and more most Americans settle for less and less. And, exactly as you said, eventually armed forces will be used to maintain the wealth gap. None in the top few % are going to give up one cent ... instead, forces will be used to keep the masses in line.

And hence, all of the surveillance going up around the country, all of the money being poured into the militarization of local/state police. This is NOT about them over there, it's about keeping the majority of Americans in line and adhering to a failed economic system that benefits only the top few %.

When I try to explain this to most people in a prophetic way, all I generally get is a deer in the headlight look. Most Americans just can't come to grips with the fact that economic systems do fail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RKP5637 (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:38 AM

47. Thank you for your response. It is as if I wrote it

 

myself. Your last paragraph is the most efficacious. People just don't get it. We spare the Bush crew. We spare the telephone companies from publishing our information. We say, duh, when Bush reverses posse comitatus (sp). We whistle while Section 32 of NDAA is implemented, reversed, then re-implemented. We kill everyone from anywhere at will. We now have drones watching major cities and more to come. And we are now in full-blown fascists MO with a president making moves to reduce the social safety net. And on this very board we have a group developing an acceptance while saying " a spoon full of sugar will make the medicine go down." It is total insanity. Thanks so much for your post. I will be putting some Commemorativo in one of my canteens when hiding behind all the furniture. I'll be happy to give you a swig.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to plethoro (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:50 AM

48. Commemorativo - Thanks!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RKP5637 (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:27 AM

69. RKP, I wanted to ask you something and I could not figure out another

 

way to do it, so I'm doing it under this post.

My question is: If we go over the fiscal cliff (whatever that is), do you think the government (whoever that is now) will use this event to suspend Social Security payments under some kind of guise?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to plethoro (Reply #69)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:11 AM

70. It could be used as tremendous leverage ... but my gut feel is it won't happen. There will be

some type of miraculous solution and all of them will pat each other on the back. Each year, year after year, we go through this. A lot of it's all theatrics and chest beating IMO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RKP5637 (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:23 AM

71. Thanks. I wish I was as sure as you seem to be.........nft

 

dddddd

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:27 AM

45. Being broke is the reason for the mood.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jwirr (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:21 PM

50. Exactly and furthermore

I have even noticed this attitude of some here that things are improving thus we all are, no, we aren't all doing well, or even slightly better, infact many of us on DU, me included are barely making it at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:27 AM

46. Absolutely...Give me the shovel!

K&R

...we'll have a digging ceremony and the whole nine yards. Exactly what I thought when I heard the big sucking sound after they passed NAFTA & GATT back in the '90s. They said we would all work in the service industry (McDonalds & Starbuck, etc) and everything would be hunky-dory. Anyone with half a brain knew it was all a big lie. And here we are. We've been downsized, outsourced and kicked to the curb, and they think we're in a bad mood! ARITHMETIC!!! And I tell you whose grave I'd like to dance on: Milton Freidman's! And even though that shit was passed in the '90s, it was cooked up in the '80s under Reagan and GHWB.
Give me the shovel....I will dig with a vengeance!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:03 PM

49. +1, n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:41 PM

53. I am scared to spend right now...

In the past several months my reserves were wiped out by a number of expenses piling up. I usually set a little aside so I have money for new brakes or whatever. But - I needed new brakes, the dog needed surgery, the washing machines was beyond repair. Those were manageable, barely. I crossed my fingers nothing else would happen.

Then I was injured around the house - homeowners won't cover it because it was me. I needed surgery and a hospital stay. For the first time ever, I hit my deductible and out of pocket limits on my health insurance. But I can't pay the out of pocket now. The bills have started arriving. I don't know what to do.

The thought of Christmas gifts, etc. was just out of the question. I stayed home, feigning a cold, and snuggled with my dog.

Extreme frugality rules right now - I'll see if the hospital will make payment arrangements. And the surgeon. And ambulance company. And ER docs. And the anesthesiologist. And hope nothing else happens.

I'm scared.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QED (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:33 PM

60. If you contact the services rendered and make an arrangement make sure they do not try to

make your payments more than you can afford.
List all the bills from the injury while setting it up so they each are aware of what you total in medical bills = negotiate + don't let them assign you a monthly amount that is unrealistic
but do contact them so as not to go to a credit agency.

Plus once people make an arrangement they often comment that it takes it off their mind when it is broken down in to affordable payments.

Most will work with you.
We have seen folks claim bankruptcy over medical but that should be your last resort( imo ) but sometimes it is needed

Limiting holiday social events was a good move and there is always another time too. Why add more debt now on gifting when you are already scared about spending. I wish you better times in the new year

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunasun (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:47 AM

73. Thank you for this...

I'm still waiting for all the bills to come in so I know where I stand - then I'll make the calls.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to QED (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:18 AM

65. Advice that may be worth more than you paid for it ..........

Call each of these billers, explain your situation and set up monthly payments. If they say "we can't take less than this", they are lying and you need to reiterate that you can pay X amount and they will relent. Also, you could check and see if the hospital has any charity funds, but even if you don't qualify, they will take monthly payments of pretty much anything you can pay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tavalon (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:52 AM

74. Thanks...

I think my biggest worry is the surgeon. The specialist the ER called and did the surgery is out of my insurance network. I wasn't in a position to investigate this and didn't find out until the post-op appointment. Insurance covers 50% of this - and I don't know how much it will be but suspect it will be wicked.

I'm venting here, anonymously, about my fear over this. Meanwhile, it's a happy face and goshdarnit I'll get better and do my PT.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:42 PM

54. Technical question on content\context: Is your OP referring to the release of

 

some official report about holiday spending? If so, which one? (I feel like I'm missing the context for your OP, so flying a bit blind.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:42 PM

55. Well, I have as much money as I did last year (possibly a little more)...

 

and I haven't really been in the mood for 'CHRISTMAS !!!!!' this year, primarily because of Sandy and Sandy Hook and then the other shooting of FireFighters on Christmas Eve, and as such haven't really had much zest where Christmas shopping and such has been concerned.

So, on some level yeah mood does in fact affect holiday spending.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:08 PM

57. I for one, am glad they don't have us totally figured out

This year has proven that they don't understand us at all. Our actions, for example on election day, surprised the living crap out of them. Out of the 1%, the media, and the idiots running against President Obama.

They're still scratching their heads in utter confusion, and tripping all over themselves to figure out what happened. And they still don't get it.

I like that they don't get to act like we're their marionettes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #57)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:19 AM

66. Actually, they do act like we're their marionettes

That's why it shocks them every time we give them the middle finger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tavalon (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:00 AM

68. Actually that was what I meant

They still think they have us where they want us in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

For years DUers and political junkies in general have been whining and complaining about how people need to wake up. Well this last elections showed us all that people are waking up. That even surprised me a little, so I give a lot of credit to the younger Americans who have a different way of gathering information. It seems to be more accurate, and they seem to be under the radar to the pundits and the majority of politicians. And they're far more diverse now, and they've been paying attention.

When you have a population of people who are paying attention you're in deep trouble if you're the kind of party that counts on a low information electorate. The Republicans have received their first major defeat because of an informed and interested electorate, and, of course they think that's a terrible thing. But they can't figure out how to deal with it. Honesty and real service are just not in their vocabulary, so they keep missing the point with their wild gyrations on what and who to blame. It's everyone and everything but themselves.

It's fun to watch.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:51 PM

59. maybe people are wising up to buying crap

certainly they have caught on to how badly made is cheap offshore garbage

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to annabanana (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:29 AM

72. It's all the wimpy, wussie, buzz-kill consumers' fault, dammit..

Our lack of spending is distressing those corporations to the very core of their person-hoods..

Pf course they would never think that maybe we are just finally saturated to the brink, and our homes are filled to the brim with "stuff" and maybe we are hoarding OUR cash for frivolous things like food, rent & transportation..,oh and for interest payments on the stuff we bought 5 years ago..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread