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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:02 AM

 

What with corporate personhood, could theoretically, the NRA be charged with War Crimes or Murder?

the court ruled on guns, the same court ruled on corporations as personhood

logically, taking that one step further, could the NRA now be charged with War Crimes
or murder itself aiding and abetting each incident and every one that follows?

27 replies, 1621 views

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Reply What with corporate personhood, could theoretically, the NRA be charged with War Crimes or Murder? (Original post)
graham4anything Dec 2012 OP
Systematic Chaos Dec 2012 #1
Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #2
LAGC Dec 2012 #3
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #23
JVS Dec 2012 #4
graham4anything Dec 2012 #5
missionkam Dec 2012 #6
Recursion Dec 2012 #9
Recursion Dec 2012 #7
Resonance_Chamber Dec 2012 #8
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #10
graham4anything Dec 2012 #11
pipoman Dec 2012 #13
graham4anything Dec 2012 #14
pipoman Dec 2012 #15
graham4anything Dec 2012 #17
pipoman Dec 2012 #25
graham4anything Dec 2012 #26
pipoman Dec 2012 #27
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #20
Sherman A1 Dec 2012 #12
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #21
Sherman A1 Dec 2012 #22
pipoman Dec 2012 #16
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #19
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #24

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:12 AM

1. I've seen some real logical reaches in my day, but *really*?

Makes about as much sense as blaming The Weather Channel for superstorm Sandy.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:24 AM

2. Corporations aren't people until Texas executes one

 

Yeah, old...but applicable.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:31 AM

3. Is the NRA a corporation, operating for profit?

More of an advocacy organization... unless you think labor unions ought to also be subjected to the same scrutiny.

I don't think we want to go there.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:12 PM

23. one guy is making a profit

La Pew gets almost $1 million a year. that ain't right, even if you're IN the nra!

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:39 AM

4. That's crazy talk. We don't even prosecute blatant war criminals in this county.

To then engage in mental gymnastics to somehow turn a single issue advocacy group into a war criminal is employing logic that is clear as mud.

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Response to JVS (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:45 AM

5. that may be true, however

 

so many people here yell out war crime war crime yada yada yada for every single thing
so why not something with tens of thousands or more death blood on their hands

It is not a far step from corporations as people

not to mention leaders of the NRA could become complicit

all it takes is another ruling by a different court and voila it can happen (or even this court)

what if prior war crime people hid themselves behind a lobby group corporate logo?
would that exclude them too?

if guns were to be reclassified as WMDs as they are weapons, they inflict mass deaths and destruction, and the NRA reclssified as a terror org. with their assets frozen, it would seem the next logical step.

The war in the 1930s come to mind.

especially with the bullets that are now used, sick inventions that twist and turn every which way to inflict fatal massive damage

and even if not using the word war crimes, just plain 1st degree murder or 2nd degree murder

for every action, there is a reaction.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)


Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:59 AM

9. You do know there's a difference between the NRA and NRA-ILA, right?

Also, WMD currently has a definition in several international treaties, so you'll face some difficulties changing that.

what if prior war crime people hid themselves behind a lobby group corporate logo?
would that exclude them too?


Being a member of a corporation has never limited an individual's liability for individual actions. And if the purpose of the corporation is to break a law, it's not a corporation but a conspiracy.

Unfortunately, lobbying, is not illegal, which is what the NRA-ILA does, and gun safety classes and mutual insurance are not illegal, which is what the NRA does, so I'm not clear what crime you think they should be charged with.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:53 AM

7. Corporate personhood was invented *centuries* ago for exactly that reason

SCOTUS used that phrase in Citizens United precisely because it's such a well-known legal idea for legal liabilities. The 14th Amendment has been held to protect corporations essentially since it was passed; the question of which other rights corporations have has been kicked back and forth a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:58 AM

8. We don’t go after ADMITTED War Criminals or those who protect them

 

we give them a pass, a very comfortable retirement package and a large state funeral when they die from natural causes.

So what makes you even think that corporations would not be treated the EXACT same way as a person who commits war crimes in America?

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:59 AM

10. How about if some war criminals are charged with war crimes first? Like george bush for starters?

 

jesus fucking christ, our entire government gets a pass but you want to charge the nra with war crimes.

we are killing children every fucking day.

Drone Strikes Are Causing Child Casualties -- 178 So Far
http://www.alternet.org/world/drone-strikes-are-causing-child-casualties-178-so-far

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:26 AM

11. Drones are constitutionally allowed under the war powers act.

 

I wouldn't want to change that.

I like drones.

Less collateral damage of course there is some, but instead of ground war

too bad they didn't have a drone over every mass murderer in the past

and you guys who want to go after who you like for war crimes are your opinion

I would rather go after these guys

we just disagree on which guys I guess

btw, I don't want to go backward, I want to go forward.

so laws can be all changed, then take it from that point forward
I myself don't mind the Federal government having more powers
the constiuttion is a living breathing piece of work

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:11 AM

13. "Drones are constitutionally allowed under the war powers act"

Nobody will make that claim about guns, or about lobbying groups, or about petitioning the government, or about citizens uniting, or about freedom of association....nope, the constitution only applies to drones, eh?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:37 AM

14. laws can be changed

 

so change the ones you don't like.That is what I want to do.

And if Lobbygroups are people, charge them with war crimes and mass murder.

but anyhow, feel free to start a new topic on drones.

This one is specific to ammo and that which fires it

and its a typical NRA million dollar suit diversion to the issue

It's like a kid saying their friend is jumping off the empire state building can I
and the mom says no just cuz your friend is doesn't equate to you can

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:46 AM

15. There is a fairly massive distinction between

changing laws and amending the constitution/BoR..not to mention changing several amendments to accomplish your silly idea.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:28 AM

17. a seed takes years to grow into majestic redwoods

 

In 6 years, every single politician in house,senate, governor, president,vp will be up for election
change them, change scotus, things can change
for the better
for the worse
depending on individual views

as Hillary said, It takes a village
as Obama said, we didn't do it alone

those words have meaning

good or bad

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:39 PM

25. Nonsense

if it were that easy Roe would be gone years ago. It don't work that way with precedent setting SCOTUS cases.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:13 PM

26. The repubs don't want it gone. That is your mistake in thinking.The issue brings in mega bucks

 

If it were overturned, it would not be a battlecry to the religious zealots, so its better for them to keep restricting it, but not banning it.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:04 AM

27. Maybe

combined with the fact that SCOTUS precedent very rarely is reversed within one's lifetime regardless the makeup of the court.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:57 PM

18. gotcha, it's ok to kill other people's children in droves.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:04 PM

20. "I like drones"...

 

So they're OK; that's cool.

Then I guess you'll understand that people can like guns and be OK with that too right?

"The only way you'll get my drone is from my cold, dead hands".

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:06 AM

12. Well,

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:05 PM

21. That's a great signature line...

 

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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:18 PM

22. Thank You Kindly,

I do my best to adhere to it. I fail often, but I try.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:48 AM

16. The sooner people quit floating constitutional impossibilities

on this issue, the sooner we can concentrate on actual possibilities..

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:00 PM

19. No. nt

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:33 PM

24. maybe they're the cause of a national disaster/emergency. sick FEMA on 'em

i have wondered the same thing. nice leap.

Offensive Weapons Privilege Act!

it would be nice- i'm sure their finances are sketchy to say the least.

russian gun ban (EXACTLY LIKE US!):

In 2010, as Russias President, Medvedev tightened control over the use of non-lethal arms. He signed a law that increased liability for the illegal use, and trafficking of civilian firearms and other offensive weapons. The move followed a sharp rise in crime using shotguns where many people got wounded or even killed.

http://rt.com/politics/medvedev-guns-legalization-weapon-175/

and, hmm...guns hurt our economy...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/business/a-kalashnikov-factory-in-russia-survives-on-sales-to-us-gun-owners.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Despite the guns violent history or perhaps because of it American hunters and gun enthusiasts are snapping up tens of thousands of Kalashnikov rifles and shotguns. Demand is so brisk that the factory has shifted its focus from military to civilian manufacture over the last two years. United States sales of the civilian versions, sold under the brand name Saiga, rose by 50 percent last year, according to officials at the factory, known as Izhmash.

Over all, the United States is the worlds biggest market for civilian guns. That is partly because of comparatively lenient gun ownership laws, which have become a topic of renewed debate after a rampage last month in which a masked gunman killed 12 people and wounded 58 in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater. Although no Kalashnikovs were involved, police say one weapon used by the man charged with the shootings, James Eagen Holmes, was a popular semiautomatic pistol made by the Austrian company Glock.

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