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Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:06 AM

What is with the sudden outpouring of respect for George Bush Sr?

So he served in WWII. Does that mean he gets a pass on everything he's done since then?

Do we overlook his role in the Iran-Contra affair? Do we just overlook his actions in Iraq and Panama? Do we overlook him giving us Dick Cheney, Dubya, and the rest of the BFEE? By the way, we do still remember what BFEE stands for, right?

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Reply What is with the sudden outpouring of respect for George Bush Sr? (Original post)
Hugabear Dec 2012 OP
flvegan Dec 2012 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #8
flvegan Dec 2012 #11
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #12
flvegan Dec 2012 #17
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #25
cartach Dec 2012 #40
2pooped2pop Dec 2012 #49
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #78
Fearless Dec 2012 #2
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #16
Fearless Dec 2012 #37
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #48
2pooped2pop Dec 2012 #50
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #3
burrowowl Dec 2012 #4
Pholus Dec 2012 #5
uppityperson Dec 2012 #6
Whovian Dec 2012 #7
rrneck Dec 2012 #9
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #10
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #13
The Second Stone Dec 2012 #14
jmowreader Dec 2012 #22
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #15
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #64
zappaman Dec 2012 #92
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #94
NealK Dec 2012 #18
Kablooie Dec 2012 #19
triplepoint Dec 2012 #20
Bucky Dec 2012 #46
progressoid Dec 2012 #21
jmowreader Dec 2012 #23
condoleeza Dec 2012 #89
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #98
thucythucy Dec 2012 #84
loyalsister Dec 2012 #97
Carolina Dec 2012 #105
Mnemosyne Dec 2012 #24
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #26
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #31
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #87
deutsey Dec 2012 #59
putitinD Dec 2012 #27
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #28
whatchamacallit Dec 2012 #29
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #30
whatchamacallit Dec 2012 #33
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #34
Bucky Dec 2012 #44
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #81
malaise Dec 2012 #57
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #61
adieu Dec 2012 #32
Bucky Dec 2012 #45
adieu Dec 2012 #93
kath Dec 2012 #35
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #113
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #36
JohnnyRingo Dec 2012 #38
Festivito Dec 2012 #42
LuvNewcastle Dec 2012 #43
John2 Dec 2012 #39
Ilsa Dec 2012 #54
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #63
graham4anything Dec 2012 #41
condoleeza Dec 2012 #47
JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #51
Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #52
AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #53
Safetykitten Dec 2012 #55
corkhead Dec 2012 #56
LeftofObama Dec 2012 #58
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #60
Flashmann Dec 2012 #62
leveymg Dec 2012 #65
steve2470 Dec 2012 #66
leveymg Dec 2012 #67
steve2470 Dec 2012 #68
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #115
Carolina Dec 2012 #107
Iggo Dec 2012 #69
sendero Dec 2012 #70
Carolina Dec 2012 #108
JNelson6563 Dec 2012 #71
tanyev Dec 2012 #72
Coyotl Dec 2012 #73
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #74
WI_DEM Dec 2012 #75
slackmaster Dec 2012 #76
randr Dec 2012 #77
riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #119
fadedrose Dec 2012 #79
Atman Dec 2012 #80
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #82
Rex Dec 2012 #83
Whisp Dec 2012 #85
Paladin Dec 2012 #86
DavidDvorkin Dec 2012 #88
JReed Dec 2012 #90
Generic Other Dec 2012 #91
tabasco Dec 2012 #95
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #96
Carni Dec 2012 #99
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #100
Purveyor Dec 2012 #101
Sunlei Dec 2012 #102
Carolina Dec 2012 #110
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #117
Sunlei Dec 2012 #122
justiceischeap Dec 2012 #103
PDJane Dec 2012 #104
riqster Dec 2012 #106
Hotler Dec 2012 #109
spanone Dec 2012 #111
Raine Dec 2012 #112
cbrer Dec 2012 #114
baldguy Dec 2012 #116
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #118
Kalidurga Dec 2012 #120
Swede Atlanta Dec 2012 #121

Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:08 AM

1. Empathy, maybe?

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Response to flvegan (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:24 AM

8. Empahy the right never shows to antbody?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:40 AM

11. Your point?

BTW, we're not them.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:46 AM

12. You're right we're not them.


My point. I'm not showing them anything. Fuck em.


If you don't like it then too bad.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:02 AM

17. How exciting.

I fail to see your final point unless it involves your spelling.

I mean really, "too bad" for what?

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Response to flvegan (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:39 AM

25. Oh, the syntax police have arrived. How quaint.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:50 AM

40. Retired English Teacher!

Frustrated,bored,with little else to do but post on DU ,and I'll bet a high percentage deal with such errors.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:43 AM

49. lol

they always can point out that the important part of any post is the spelling, rather than the gist of the post. Lol, some come only to grade papers, it seems.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:02 AM

78. Doubleplusone!

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:08 AM

2. Aside from the grave dancing thread?

No one should justify his actions. But, suggesting one should cease to exist because of their actions is, literally, a pro death penalty argument. Am I to assume the DU and the civilized world isn't beyond that argument yet?

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Response to Fearless (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:01 AM

16. I disagree

If we said, "That fucker deserves to die", that's a pro-death penalty comment. If we say, "I don't care if he dies and he doesn't deserve revisionist history just because he is dying." That's a different argument. You're not wishing him death but rather asking that the facts surrounding the history of his life aren't changed and manufactured to prevent him the scorn and ridicule he deserves just because he is dying.

Two different arguments.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:29 AM

37. Suggesting that

Someone should die or the happiness one has for the death of another is dependent on the bad things they have done is pro the death of someone based on their deeds.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:55 AM

48. No it's not. It's indifference to their death.

Pro Death is rooting for them to die.

Indifference is I don't care either way if they do.

Just because someone doesn't want their inevitable death to be cloaked in lies to manufacture a phony revisionist mirage around the man's history does not mean anyone is rooting for him to die. And that part, the revisionist history attachment, that comes post-death and is separate because you could not wish someone to die but still not want their death to trigger a load of falsehoods perpetuated by a compliant media.

You're just blending all of that together but it just isn't so. It's a tad bit of unnecessary outrage, really.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:47 AM

50. Personally, I've wished him death for a long time.

Him and most of his republican buds. Finally gonna get that wish it seems. Not my most important wish. But hey, take what you can get, I guess.

One down.

Maybe Karl Rove will go visit and catch it.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:10 AM

3. Elderly man, possibly on his deathbed?

I don't actually respect him, mind you. But I see no point in celebrating.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:13 AM

4. God only knows

He, because Raygun was already out of it, was responsible for Iran-Contra which lead to the deaths of 200,000 to 250,000 Guatemalan Indians and a Maryknoll priest trying to get medicine to them. He is a war criminal.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:13 AM

5. There is some subtlety?

Yup, all the bad stuff you said is true and nasty. I definitely wish GHWB had not served as president! But he did and unlike our modern teabaggers you can at least point at a couple good things:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022077646

Put in that context maybe he warrants at least a respectful silence as he passes.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:14 AM

6. He spent his life seeking power and wealth. I pity his family at his deathbed, but he did so many

bad things for all of us.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:15 AM

7. He gets no respect from me.

 

If he dies, he dies. We all do it.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:28 AM

9. He's a former POTUS, and he's dying. It's a legacy trying to not admit we elected a jerk thing. nt

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:37 AM

10. He is a POS

 

He will get no respect or sympathy from me.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:48 AM

13. the usual bullshit when evil leaders die.

 

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:51 AM

14. He's an old man with a fever for several weeks, it's going up, so he is

most likely dying.

He served his country. He looks really good in comparison to W.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:19 AM

22. Al Capone looks good compared to W.

I was going to mention Charles Manson...naah, anyone looks good compared to Manson.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:58 AM

15. Or his possible CIA involvement in the JFK Assassination?

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:59 AM

64. That, among other things going back to WWII and what appears to be his involvement....

....with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). He was a Yale grad and a former college baseball player, prime recruiting grounds for the OSS, the predecessor of the CIA. Think of all of the major CIA ops going back to their official formation in 1947, especially those taking place in Central America, South America, and the Caribbean, and Poppy was probably involved in some way. We certainly have a great deal of information about his involvement in the Cuban Task Force and the Bay of Pigs.

I wonder how long it will take after his passing before we begin to see books detailing his CIA experience in a way not seen to date. It should prove to be very interesting reading.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:24 PM

92. Great.

Now with this bullshit, you put me in the uncomfortable position of having to defend this asshole.
He did enough bad stuff without this bullshit CT.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #92)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:06 PM

94. On the other thread and affirmed that you believe Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer.

So everything except the completely easily debunked Government argument is conspiracy theory to you. Frankly I dismiss your opinion if you actually think LHO killed Kennedy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2079502

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:03 AM

18. I have absolutely no respect for that guy.

And that's all I have to say about him.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:07 AM

19. I respect a Republican that is president for only one term.

That should be a model for all the other Republicans.

Of course he created W for us so that kind of cancels it out.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:12 AM

20. Chalk it up to Paid Posters or People with No Memory(?)

 

or a fogged-out memory leading to a failure to remember the tyrannical reign of the bush CRIME family. Those who can't remember the past are condemned to repeat it....

Gore Vidal called this national memory lapse situation, "The United States of Amnesia."






E. Howard Hunt gave a deathbed JFK Assassination confession. I hope bush I does as well. Hunt's son or someone else filmed it. Here's that video:
.

.
.
.

.
.
.

.
.

.
.
.

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.
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The don of the bush CRIME family and phony war hero had a photographic memory but somehow....couldn't remember where he was the day that JFK was assassinated. Yeah...sure....sure bet there monsieur boooooooooooooooooosh. Guess he won't be joining kenny boy at the bush hacienda in Paraguay afterall....Rest in Hell george! You should have been hanged for treason long ago!

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Response to triplepoint (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:10 AM

46. Paid posters?

oi

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:13 AM

21. I'll give him credit for one thing.

He called Reaganomics "voodoo economics".

But that's about it.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:24 AM

23. As long as he was running against Reagan, he did

Once Reagan took him onto the ticket, Bush did a complete 180 - he was pro choice before he was Reagan's running mate.

The best thing Bush the Elder could have done for this country was die during childbirth.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:58 PM

89. Hah, I've often said

when asked what I thought about Dubya, that somebody should have killed his grandfather before his father was conceived.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:05 PM

98. He was far more than just pro-choice

He was a great fan of eugenics during his congressional years and greatly encouraged legislation that came to fruition in Virginia & North Carolina, where women on welfare or women with an IQ below 70 were uniformly sterilized while in the system. The world will be a better place when the elder of the Bush Crime Family is gone.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:01 PM

84. He also signed the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Junior would have vetoed it, for sure.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:29 PM

97. I hate this

but, actually W signed the ADA Amendments Act of 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADA_Amendments_Act_of_2008

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:30 PM

105. but he would not sign

the Family and Medical Leave Act which affects so many of us who have to work and still tend to family with serious medical issues!

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:31 AM

24. Just another war criminal as far as I'm concerned. nt

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:42 AM

26. He raised taxes on the rich when it was necessary,

even though he had promised not to do so ("read my lips").

He further taxed the rich via a luxury tax on expensive cars and yachts.

He signed the Americans with Disabilities act.

He executed a smart, clinical Gulf War that did what was needed without any of the idiotic overreaching and quagmires that his son would perpetrate.

No President is perfect. I am not especially comfortable with Obama's kill lists and drone attacks, for example. But for a Republican, HW was really not that bad.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:00 AM

31. But for a Republican, HW was really not that bad.


Would you vote for him?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:52 PM

87. I did...

 

That election was my first and as I was 18 at the time I was highly influenced by my family, and I loved Rush Limbaugh back then, I thought he was hilarious...well, he still is if you only look at him as a comedy act.

I wouldn't vote for him now, but things have changed an awful lot since he was President...I doubt he could even get the nomination; I will say though that he was a MUCH better President than any of the Republican candidates they threw out there in the primaries would have been and probably better and less crazy than anyone they have in the wings.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:22 AM

59. But, like his son, he lied us into war

That story about Iraqi troops throwing babies from incubators onto the cold floor? Lie

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:43 AM

27. I won't shed a tear

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:43 AM

28. There are plenty of people here who have never hated him.

I think the guy did some really nasty stuff and is only "better" relative to Reagan or Shrub.

But it's not really "sudden" because I've seen many DUers over the years say that they respected/sorta liked/didn't mind Bush Sr.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:48 AM

29. What do you expect in Trolltown?

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:55 AM

30. Respecting the office of the president isn't trolling. Anyone who serves as the president of my

country at least receives a grudging respect from me. http-pissing on his grave seems unproductive and republican.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:02 AM

33. Bullshit

An asshole in the Oval Office is still just an asshole. I don't owe that POS anything.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:08 AM

34. Dubya's misadventure in Iraq has left thousands of US dead


tens of thousands of US wounded and between 750k and 1 million Iraqis dead.

I have no respect for whatever office he has stolen and defiled.


Did you forget that the SCOTUS helped him into office?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:06 AM

44. I generally agree. Of the 3 most recent Republican presidents, he was the least malignant,

If the country through a democratic process puts someone in a position of managing the bulky complex sovereignty of the United States, honoring the man and the authority he represents is not the same thing as agreeing with his policies. And unlike the other recent Republican presidents, he did not authorize terrorism in Central America or torture in half a dozen client states.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:35 AM

81. This is precisely the spirit my post was made in. Thanks for articulating your view so succinctly.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:45 AM

57. Are you serious?

So if you were German you would respect Hitler?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:31 AM

61. That's the same reasoning they tried to pound into me in the military.

It didn't take. If I had no respect for the clown in the funny suit, there wasn't going to be any for the suit itself.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:01 AM

32. Probably because

he's somewhat left of Obama, politically, at the moment.

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Response to adieu (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:08 AM

45. oy

The left-right nomenclature is a shortcut to avoid thinking. If Poppy were out there in the mix these days, he'd be far far to the right of Obama. His support for the Republican Party has not wavered an iota while the party has marched steadily off to kooky la-la land.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:53 PM

93. We can't say for certain

that he would march lock-step with the kooky folks on the current GOP line-up. I'm tempted to accept your hypothesis, though.

However, I'm just comparing historical presidential actions between the two presidents during their first 4 years in office. In that case, Bush had raised taxes and Obama hadn't. Obama has kept the domestic surveillance laws while Bush didn't have such laws to use, nor did he campaigned to have them. (Being a spook, I'm sure he'd love to have them, but he never asked for them, AFAIK.)

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:09 AM

35. And what about his bailing out of his plane, leaving his crew to die? And the October Surprise,

complete with his nifty little trip to Paris?

And NEVER forget that he is probably the ONLY person in the country (and most of the developed world, probably) who was over the age of 5 at the time who "doesn't remember" where he was on Nov. 22, 1963.

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Response to kath (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:49 PM

113. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross for that stunt.

He totally freaked, bailed, and let his crew drown. My late uncle was on the boat that fished him out of the water.

But you are wrong about him being the ONLY person who could not recall where he was on 111/22/1963.

Richard Nixon was the other one.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:26 AM

36. Sometimes silence is the best policy.

If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:32 AM

38. If we're nice to him, maybe he'll make a deathbed confession..

..to being the shooter on the grassy knoll, or that he was in on the Bay of Pigs incident.

I'm no Jesse Ventura, and I cast a wary eye to conspiracy theories, but this man was there at the genesis of the CIA after WWII. His face has popped up in more of history's motley crowds than Waldo.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:01 AM

42. His family wants him dead before Jan 1st. CIA wants him dead ASAP.

Any deathbed confession would be labeled delirium from now on.

Speaking of conspiracies. Did they exhume Arafat thinking he was poisoned with Polonium. I wonder if that stuff can cause a fever.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:04 AM

43. He was in the middle of everything bad and was

the enemy of anything good. If people don't want to grave dance, fine, but there shouldn't be any wistfulness when such a wicked man dies.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:46 AM

39. I think you

 

need to be more specific? I looked at his service in World War II and from what I can see, the man served with honor, unlike his son. He was also one if the Republican Senators, that signed the Civil Rights Bill of 1968. He encouraged President Nixon to resign. He made the decision to raise taxes even though it was politically suicide for him to do so. It seems to me he did what was best for the country at the time. Bush didn't hesitate when providing assistance to Americans that were out of work also. He signed the American Disabilities ACT also. HIs son and Dick cheney should be judged on their own merits and not George Seniors'. That is the way I will judge him.

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Response to John2 (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:25 AM

54. A minor point: he was never a senator, but

He was a congressman from a Houston district.

What I heard is that he took so much heat for voting for the Civil Rights Act, he swore he wouldn't do anything like that again. In other words, the Right Thing To Do was no longer paramount.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #54)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:39 AM

63. But then

If he learned his lesson when he voted for the civil rights act and "would never do anything like that again" why did he do something like that again?

When he backed off on his "read my lips no new taxes" pledge he knew his second term was gone, but he did it anyways.

I am no H lover for sure, and he had his problems. But his Iraq war was nothing like W's.

And if we are blaming any POTUS for what happens around the world when they are in office and want to then call them a war criminal for it .. they are all pretty much war criminals.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:54 AM

41. to get Jeb nominated for the republican primary winner in 2016

 

before Obama's 9 steps ahead, the Bush's played the 4 step ahead better than anyone else

Jeb is a coming and they don't care about the past except to hope history repeats itself unless Hillary45 can stop him. Because Jeb will get the repub. nom(and do it for Poppy).

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:44 AM

47. No, we shouldn't overlook any of this

despite that he's a pathetic old man who was a bad father and he's. hopefully, dying soon, before he can have any influence on his unborn grandchild. ZERO sympathy for one of the evilest of evilest nimrods who was ever elected POTUS and who sired GWB and Jab. Poppy wasn't too bright, GWB and Jeb were both a step down from Poppy.

Lord help us that American's aren't too stupid to even consider Jeb a viable contender of POTUS. but I've little doubt he'll be there, completely re-invented. So tired of this shit.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:58 AM

51. I have empathy for him

But no respect for how he conducted himself on this earth.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:13 AM

52. I don't want to see anyone die.

I don't personally know Mr. Bush. I just know that he was the first president I ever remember seeing as a child. So, in that regard, I've always had some fascination with him. I do think, in his private life, he's probably a good man who's done good for his family and their hearts are probably breaching right now. I've buried my father and I've buried my grandfather - it's not an easy thing to do. Will I miss Bush? Of course not. His death won't radically change much of anything because, since he left office, he's been a non-factor in most our lives. But that doesn't mean I'm going to grave dance or act happy when he passes.

I wish his family the best because I know it's never easy to bury someone you love.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:21 AM

53. I'm sorry he's ill.

But that is about the extent of my concern/sympathy.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:28 AM

55. I do not get it either. But apparently he did what Obama has issues doing now...

 

Prosecute bankers.

You have to give him that.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:32 AM

56. He was correct about "voodoo economics"

just sayin,

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:01 AM

58. I despise the Bush family and everything they stand for,

but I don't want to see anyone suffer. If he passes I hope it is quickly and without pain or suffering.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:26 AM

60. Personally I don't care what happens to him.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:39 AM

62. What is with the sudden outpouring of respect for George Bush Sr?

Not from me....I have the same level of respect for him,that I ever did.......None.......Zero.......Zip and fucking nada.......

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:03 AM

65. Why is it that the Evil Old Men all seem to die in bed, unlike their many victims?

The biggest pass that GHW got was the Cold War. That seemed to excuse a great many bad things for Bush as CIA Director, including the Operation Condor death squads and his role in the Pinochet regime's assassinations in America (the bombing in Washington that killed Orlando Letelier and Ronnie Moffett), and afterwards.

Then there was the Safari Club arrangement with Prince Turki al Faisal that set up BCCI, armed Saudi Arabia's proxy, Pakistan, with nuclear weapons and allowed the Saudis to set up a global covert paramilitary capability that became al-Qaeda.

Poppy's professional career -- in all its glory -- including Bush family's role in financial piracy, working with the bin Laden and bin Mahfooz in multiple bank lootings and land grabs across the oil patch states which became known as the S&L Crisis . . . it's all here, with citations and sources, waiting for anyone who wants to know how America was looted and colonized by the oilogarchs.

Thank G.H.W. for the original "Safari Club" deal by which the Saudis paid for CIA covert ops
that the Democratic Congress and the Carter Administration had banned after the Church and Pike Committee revelations of assassinations, coups, and domestic dirty tricks by the CIA. So, in 1975-76, CIA Director Bush made a deal with Saudi intel chief Prince Turki al-Faisal to outsource and privatize these sorts of things with Saudi money paying for it. In exchange, the Saudis got the Bush CIA's permission to develop the "Islamic atomic bomb" through their proxy, Pakistan, along with the go-ahead to build and field their own covert operations capabilities with Osama bin Laden eventually given command over global logistics and organization. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/280

That arrangement morphed into CIA Operation Cyclone that brought hundreds of Jihadists into the U.S. for training and safekeeping in the secret war against the Russians and the Serbs that continued right up to 9/11 - despite repeated Jihadist killings of Americans during the 1990s, that sort of entry was so routine that the State Department and INS looked the other way when a bunch of Saudis with known terrorist ties were given visas and allowed entry into the U.S. in the two year period leading up to the attacks. Every time the FBI came close to busting up these cells, the Agency pushed the Bureau away, as was SOP. In 2001, things got so hot that even the CIA Director was alarmed enough to make personal visits to the President, but as always, the Bushes refused to do anything that might antagonize or embarrass their patrons, the Saudis, who by that point owned a large chunk of corporate America and were the primary funders of the Republican Party. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/308

The Saudis still have a huge slush fund, "al Yamamah" (The Dove) used for intelligence and influence buying operations in the US and UK - basically, the Saudis have bought protection from any accountability or interference using petrodollars and kickbacks from arms purchases, corrupting and blackmailing vast swaths of top officials in both both governments. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/303

UBL was "our man" (really the Saudi GID intel service and their primary US liaisons, the Bush family) in Khartoum and Kandahar long after the Soviet Union collapsed. The Saudis never really abandoned him or the fight against the Russians over oil. It was obviously in both our and the Saudis mutual interest that UBL never testify about what his actual role was in that war. See, also, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/04/810764/-Erik-P...

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Response to leveymg (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:10 AM

66. you should make this an OP nt

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #66)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:14 AM

67. I will. There's lots more. Here's another piece of it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/13


G.H.W. Bush-BCCI-Kamal Adham (Saudi Intelligence)
Posted by leveymg in General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007)
Mon Mar 27th 2006, 11:00 AM
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/a...
The BCCI-Bush connection is, it could be argued an ‘accidental’ one, but it’s highly unlikely even if it is difficult to track, But the seeds are all there, including GW Sr’s CIA connection (as head of it) in the 1970s and the links to BCCI as well as his long time association with James R. Bath an investor in Arbusto. Bath, was a Houston businessman and old friend was also an investor in BCCI. Essentially, BCCI was a convenient ‘channel’ for moving money through to fund the various illegal enterprises being undertaken at the time including, Iran-Contra, the Iranian arms sales, CIA money laundering operations, connections to powerful Middle Eastern businessmen, the Vatican and its right-wing connections through BNL.

Perhaps this extract from "Texas Connections" http://www.thedubyareport.com/txconnect.ht... gives you an idea of the reach:

"… Sheikh Abdullah Bahksh of Saudi Arabia, a 16% shareholder in Harken Energy at the time, was represented by a Palestinian-born Chicago investor named Talat Othman, who served with George W. Bush on the board of Harken Energy. Othman made at least three separate visits to the White House to discuss Middle East affairs with then President George Bush. At about the same time, and just prior to the Gulf War, Harken Energy, with no previous international or offshore drilling experience, was awarded a 35-year petroleum exploration contract with the emirate of Bahrain.

Sheikh Bahksh emerged as a co-investor in the Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI), a criminal enterprise since dissolved, that existed primarily as a mechanism for obtaining political influence using Middle Eastern oil money. Bahrain's prime minister, Sheik Khalifah bin-Sulman al-Khalifah, was a major investor in BCCI's parent company, BCCI Holdings, of Luxembourg. Through its commodities affiliate, Capcom, BCCI was used as a money laundering service by drug traffickers, arms dealers, etc. BCCI's front man in the U.S., and the person chiefly responsible for its takeover of First American Bank in the U.S., was Kamal Adham. Adham is referred to in the Kerry Committee report on BCCI as having been "the CIA's principal liaison for the entire Middle East from the mid-1960's through 1979." He was also the head of intelligence for Saudi Arabia during the time George Bush Sr. was Director of the CIA."




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Response to leveymg (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:17 AM

68. thanks for this too nt

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Response to leveymg (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:57 PM

115. Spot on, levymg

My family has been adversaries of the Walker/Bush carpetbaggers since they came to Texas.

The Bush reputation as oilmen is the joke of the patch.

Your research appears to be very complete and on the money.

I look forward to your post when the old vulture pukes up his last bone.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 PM

107. Thank you for this post!

Too many people have no clue about the real GHW Bush. A pre-mortem revisionist whitewashing is occurring all over this board; however, the truth is that GHWB was was anything but noble, honorable or even patriotic. It's not called the Bush Familly Evil Empire (BFFE) for nothing.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:25 AM

69. Dead man walking, that's what.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:26 AM

70. Maybe it's because...

.. compared to his idiot son he was a saint.

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Response to sendero (Reply #70)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:41 PM

108. No, his son

is fruit of the rotten tree that was Prescott, GHW Bush and all those Bush ancestors... evil spawn begotten from even greater evil

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:26 AM

71. I really think it's about death.

Some people fear EVERYTHING about death. They focus on achieving life after death a good deal of the time by trying to avoid upsetting their god of choice.

Another thing is fear of what is left behind. Will people trash talk me when I'm gone? Will they remember me fondly & say nice things about me?

Well, if you are a staunch member of the only-say-nice-things-about-the-dead club you not only get to wrap yourself up in a thick blanket of self-righteousness if any of the non-club members speak out, it might contribute to the they'll-only-say-nice-thing-about-me insurance policy.

That's just my guess. I also think much of it takes place on a sub-conscious level, like a lot of fear-based behavior.

Just throwin' that out there.

Julie

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:38 AM

72. I don't understand why my local news feels the need to make it their top story every day,

with 5 full minutes of (non) updates delivered with their serious faces/serious voices before they get back to cutting up with each other for the next 20 minutes.


Please feel free to imagine air quotes around the word news.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:44 AM

73. I had not noticed this. Of course, I don't watch any M$M, none at all

and have no T-V.
No mind control devices, no Bush.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:46 AM

74. The Republican Party has gotten so insane...

That Poppy looks like an angel in comparison. And given that he is CIA scum, that's saying a lot.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:43 AM

75. Ford actually gave us Cheney he was his Chief of Staff

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:44 AM

76. Respect for elders, respect for veterans, respect for the Presidency.

 

I recommend all of them.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:59 AM

77. I agree slackmaster

Respect as a human attribute is on the decline and is lacking on both left and right sides.
I had always thought of the left ,Democrats in particular, as having more respect since they always defended the moral high ground.
Not sure I can still defend that position.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:06 PM

119. Its dangerous historical revisionism and whitewashing to smooth Jeb Bush's presidential run

GHW Bush was a major global manipulator who wreaked havoc through dangerous and malicious un-American actions. His son GW Bush enabled those policies and whitewashing GHW Bush's career is only facilitating Jeb's own power grab.

Enough.

Let the truth be exposed so no one forgets.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:10 AM

79. He made mistakes for sure

But he wasn't evil. Some of our guys, the good guys, some of our best, made mistakes too, and we acknowledged it and forgave them if they also did some good for the country.

And George raised taxes, a brave thing to do that got him out of office.

I'm saving my lack of empathy for the people who run the NRA, the gun manufacturers who have no sympathy for those affected by gun killings, and the teaparty folks who have no feeling for the the poor and hungry, who depend on the goodness of Democrats to keep them alive until jobs become available.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:13 AM

80. C'mon...he's an old, dying President. He is due some respect.

I didn't like the guy. I would guess most of us here on DU didn't like the guy. But he was President and he served his country. And himself, and his family. *sigh*. Okay, I'm trying to find a reason to be magnanimous here...Presidents are due a certain level of respect. PEOPLE are due a certain level of respect. If it was your dad dying, you'd understand. Fuck his politics. A family patriarch is dying and his family is obviously saddened. I don't have to love GWB to respect that.

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Response to Atman (Reply #80)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:37 AM

82. Right on. As the party that is more for humanity, I feel we don't need to lose ours.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:39 AM

83. People are showing their true colors.

IMO.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:03 PM

85. he is a crook and a warmongering killer and liar.

why should I have any respect for him because he fought in a war. That is absolutely crapy nonsense and I can't stand to hear McCain and all his hero shit either. There are far more worthier 'heroes' that battle every day to keep their families safe and fed and clothed than those rich fucking assholes that milk worship from the stupid.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:41 PM

86. His Use Of Lee Atwater In The 1988 Election More Than Erases Any Good He Did. (nt)

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:21 PM

88. De mortui nil nisi bonum

I've never agreed with that, but it's a common feeling.

Almost mortui, too.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:12 PM

90. No respect here

 

He's responsible for too much misery to chronicle. At the very center of numerous evils.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:15 PM

91. I wish him to fall off the fiscal cliff before he kicks the bucket

Lose the tax cuts. Leave a smaller inheritance for the vermin younger generation. Don't tell me Junior hasn't been praying for the old man's early demise.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:08 PM

95. Trolls

and idiots.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)


Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:51 PM

99. Everyone dies...

This *piece of work* has lived longer than I will and has enjoyed enormous wealth and optimum health care on the taxpayers dime so that he can achieve a ripe old age.

My opinion of this *person* has not changed since 1980-whatever...we should all receive such excellent health care, so that we can hang on UNTIL HIS AGE and OH BTW be so arrogant as to jump out of planes with a handler at 90.

Young people fighting cancer (with no insurance) and this stupid old bag doing the parachute thing?

Not admirable...just ARROGANT.

Not shedding tears here, SORRY!

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:08 PM

100. You're certainly NOT hearing it from me. . . .

I cannot tolerate that man. The fact that he's sick is totally beside the point. He's STILL a criminal.

Honestly, it's not that I wish the man harm. . . . But I will feel no sorrier when he dies than I do when I swat a fly. I'm really indifferent to anything to do with him or his horrible family.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:10 PM

101. Can't wait (not) to hear the commentary on this forum when Jimmy Carter passes.



You all know it is coming since he never 'kissed' the israeli ring...

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:11 PM

102. I think it's more respect towards any very old person. He probably doesn't even remember what he did

Remember he spent years 'clearing brush' on his ranch? They use a lot of chemicals similar to round-up, agent orange to kill that brush.

That parkensins in his legs that crippled him may be because of that exposure. He should donate rest of his life to science to advance study and a cure for parkinsins..it would be a nice legacy. He needs a lot of points for Heaven.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #102)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:45 PM

110. not all old people deserve respect

some are outright evil.

Consider an 88 year Rush Limbaugh or Mitch McConnell or Wayne Le Pierre...

Age alone does not garner respect.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #110)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:59 PM

117. THANK YOU. SOME have stayed way past their "due" date.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #110)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:46 AM

122. I meant like clean diapers, regular feeding and liquids 'respect', not love or sorrow when he goes

He should be sent home with a nurse to care for him.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:13 PM

103. You don't have to respect someone to have empathy for them

I've been an asshole to people in my life, done some things I wish I hadn't but I hope when I die, someone will feel bad about my passing.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:19 PM

104. The reason he enlisted in WWII was to save the family reputation

after Prescott Bush was indicted under the Trading With the Enemy act. He's a tool of the military-industrial complex. Yes, his sons are worse, but they are still out there, doing their usual thing.

'I may have wept that any should have died
Or missed their chance, or not have been their best,
Or been their riches, fame, or love denied;
On me as much as any is the jest.
I take my incompleteness with the rest.
God bless himself can no one else be blessed.'

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:36 PM

106. If you compare him to his idiot kid

Bush the Elder looks a lot better. That's my theory.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:44 PM

109. This is DU3 not DU2. n/t

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:46 PM

111. it goes along with the job.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:49 PM

112. Because refraining from dumping all over the sick & dying makes us a more civil

society. I have mixed feelings about it because just being sick & dying doesn't make you noble, doesn't mean you deserve respect. Still I'll follow my father's advice "when you have nothing good to say, say nothing". Anyway at least till he's dead and buried for awhile and history sets the record straight.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:57 PM

114. Hey, even if he sired Satan

 

He was a decent man (for a politician), as well as a true hero. His bio is available, and has many verified events of his heroism during WW2.

The failure of Conservative philosophy is traceable to greed and corruption. Two facts that remain in US politics today.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:58 PM

116. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:59 PM

118. Undoubtely he, as a GOP did bad things

And no,we should not lionize him, however, we can also see that as much as he was a GOP type, he was also destroyed by the modern GOP that turned on him when he tired to raise taxes. Yes, they used his own son to do it, but W. was genuinely stupid enough to ignore that the very people that made him are the same people that attacked his dad.

Hey,can anyone who coined the phrase "voodoo economics" be 100 percent bad.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:17 PM

120. I just don't care all that much.

I don't get the respect thing. Perhaps he earned, perhaps he earned it then unearned it whatever. I don't think respect should be automatic just 'cause someone dies or is sick. If that person is in your care though treat them well. Even if you hate them with the white hot hate of a thousand suns, because that is your duty. But, he is not in my care so I can care as little or as much as I want. I choose to not care.

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Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:45 PM

121. No, we do not let things slip.....

He is/was an evil man. His passing means one of Satan's soldiers has been eliminated from the face of the earth. Enough said!!!

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