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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:41 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (friendly_iconoclast) on Sat Dec 29, 2012, 08:38 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 OP
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #1
Callmecrazy Dec 2012 #81
choie Dec 2012 #2
Squinch Dec 2012 #68
onehandle Dec 2012 #3
Moonwalk Dec 2012 #4
JVS Dec 2012 #5
Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #6
Aerows Dec 2012 #7
TDale313 Dec 2012 #12
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #14
99Forever Dec 2012 #45
PA Democrat Dec 2012 #57
LineReply .
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #8
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #10
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #9
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #16
jmg257 Dec 2012 #24
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #11
Aerows Dec 2012 #19
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #21
Aerows Dec 2012 #22
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #42
Aerows Dec 2012 #47
TeamPooka Dec 2012 #26
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #30
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #41
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #43
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #50
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #51
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #55
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #72
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #52
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #54
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #59
Paladin Dec 2012 #65
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #71
Squinch Dec 2012 #73
Initech Dec 2012 #13
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #15
Initech Dec 2012 #49
bongbong Dec 2012 #75
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #17
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #18
jmg257 Dec 2012 #20
yardwork Dec 2012 #23
Aerows Dec 2012 #25
yardwork Dec 2012 #37
villager Dec 2012 #27
Aerows Dec 2012 #28
Squinch Dec 2012 #70
villager Dec 2012 #82
Pholus Dec 2012 #29
villager Dec 2012 #31
JI7 Dec 2012 #32
Javaman Dec 2012 #33
Rex Dec 2012 #34
Paladin Dec 2012 #35
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #36
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #38
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #39
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #40
PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #44
Rex Dec 2012 #78
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #46
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #48
Aerows Dec 2012 #67
Rex Dec 2012 #79
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #53
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #60
FreeState Dec 2012 #61
Aerows Dec 2012 #63
FreeState Dec 2012 #66
sibelian Dec 2012 #64
Progressive dog Dec 2012 #80
Squinch Dec 2012 #56
William769 Dec 2012 #58
sibelian Dec 2012 #62
patrice Dec 2012 #77
Disgraceland Dec 2012 #69
Robb Dec 2012 #74
patrice Dec 2012 #76

Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:49 PM

1. I have, in fact, seen this form of "argument" used right here on the DU.

Last edited Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

That any commentary that doesn't fall in line with the "OMG we must do something, anything", is somehow just too insensitive for words.

Bad choice of analogy, however.

There are plenty of other examples of authoritarian legislation that have used the "what about the children" slant.

Eom

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:29 PM

81. Problem is...

After all is said and done, more is usually said than done.


A common thread often seen here at DU.

People love to scream and pound the podium

but few ever get off the couch.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:50 PM

2. You're willing to discuss it?

and we care why?

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Response to choie (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:35 PM

68. +1

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:50 PM

3. Gun shows and private gun sales should be banned.

If that, for a start, saved one life. It would be worth it.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:51 PM

4. Um, apples and oranges comparison. There never was any proof that...

...homosexuals were any danger to kids (i.e. any more than heterosexuals). We do have proof, more than enough proof, that guns are a danger to kids. And this is why "dead kids"--heck, dead anyone--is a valid argument for gun control where "danger to kids" is not a valid argument when it comes to homosexuals.

But I do appreciate the fact that if conservatives can use "Protect the Children!" as a way to ram through legislation that we shouldn't give up hope that we can do the same using that same battle cry. Good idea.

And I think that you're the one who is "Lovejoying" as you seem to want to oppose any dissent to your arguments. You're doing this by using another logical fallacy "name-calling." Meaning you don't listen to what the opposition has to say when they bring up children, you just call them a name and, thus, dismiss their side of the argument in the exact way you say they're dismissing yours.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:52 PM

5. This should be interesting

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:52 PM

6. that is a really warped conflation

 

to say that a woman helping deny millions of people equal protection under the law based on their sexual orientation is the same as us wanting to reduce the number of guns and therefore deaths in our country???

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:54 PM

7. Hi, I'm gay

I don't recruit. I don't have to. I have all the toasters I need in this lifetime.

Disgusting analogy. Thanks for equating loving someone with killing people.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:59 PM

12. ^^^ this ^^^

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:00 AM

14. ^^^ this ^^^

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:10 PM

45. ^^This^^

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:01 PM

57. Agree!

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:55 PM

8. .

Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 445 posts in the last 90 days (68% of total posts)

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:57 PM

10. Banning these stupid fuckers' toys is going to be joyous beyond words...

 

The Schadenfreude that comes with it will be beyond words.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:55 PM

9. And they call the tactic of putting guns over children jackassing. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:04 AM

16. ^^This.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:21 AM

24. You forgot "selfish"....as in "selfish jackassing". Nt

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:57 PM

11. What a total BULLSHIT post and analogy.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:09 AM

19. Absolute bullshit

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Response to Aerows (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:14 AM

21. Jury ruled 3-3 so it stands. I would like to see jury comments, but I was not the first alerter.

I checked TOS so admin should see this.

I think it's shameful.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:16 AM

22. Absolutely shameful

I can't believe that the community lets bs like this stand.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:03 PM

42. I know, how DARE someone question our moral panic?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:16 PM

47. I think that

You probably need to look in the mirror and find that while pointing a finger, there are four pointing back at you with the "moral panic". LOL

You solidified what I thought when I read this post.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:27 AM

26. here's your jury results. I was shocked too.

At Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

To those who will brook no opposition BECAUSE DEAD CHILDREN, THAT'S WHY!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022077292

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Being gay is the same as being a mass shooter? FAIL. Loving someone has nothing to do with guns.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:12 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Although I don't necessarily agree with the OP, I think the OP is comparing the TACTICS used by anti-gay groups to the TACTICS used by anti-gun groups, which is not the same as comparing gays and guns.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: I think the OP is primarily arguing that "please think of the children" can be a reactionary appeal to emotion over sense; that said, I'm not sure gun control advocacy in the wake of a horrible massacre is comparable to Falwell stoking nonexistent outrage, and it does seem insensitive to equate the two groups, but I think the problem is the false moral equivalency between people of conscience and bigots, not gay people and mass shooters.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Nice try, alerter, but no.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Uggh... This poster needs to be shown the door. Uggh, I thought we'd seen the worst of the NRA propagandists, but this takes the cake. Go away troll
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:35 AM

30. Thanks for posting that here.

Shameful.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:54 PM

41. "NRA propagandist(s)"? Horseshit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117222584

"Why I'm not going to rejoin the NRA just yet."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002467295

Question for DUers: Do you hate the NRA so much you'll ally with Michael Bloomberg?

I'll state right off the bat that I'm not thrilled with the NRA personally, because I'm about 90% sure that despite their proclaimed non-partisan stance, they are in fact a right-wing political movement with a bitchin gun club, like I stated here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117222584

"Why I'm not going to rejoin the NRA just yet."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117222584#post50

"No point in donating money to people that piss on the President, while accepting Mitt's AWB."




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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:06 PM

43. Your post is offensive horseshit.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:29 PM

50. I refuse to sit silently through yet another moral panic, however well intended.

If you don't care for that, so be it.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:32 PM

51. You should answer the question Lone_Star_Dem posed below:

"I fail to see how a homophobic movement that had nothing to do with children's safety, and everything to do with pushing a bigoted agenda, is in anyway similar to an actual (read: REAL) public menace which leaves children dead and/or harmed. Gay people do not "recruit" children to become gay. Guns do kill children. How do you justify equating the two in your mind? "


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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:50 PM

55. Fewer children were killed this year with guns than were killed in 1993

before the 'vital' (and now expired) "assault weapon ban" was passed in 1994.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:48 PM

72. The statistics of how many children were killed in this country by guns this year...

Won't be out for about another two years. That's how long it takes to analyze the data before it's released each time. I'll also point out in my post I specifically said "dead and/or harmed" not just dead. To make the point of what I meant by that I'll use the example of the elementary school yard shooting in Stockton, CA by Patrick Purdy in 1989. While the 106 bullets he shot only killed 5 children between the ages of 6-9 years and one adult teacher, they also left some 29 other children wounded. Those wounded children are not included in the number of children killed by firearms that year, however they were most assuredly harmed by them in a way the could never fully recover from.

Which had nothing to do with the question PeaceNikki was asking you. However, since her question to you was about a reply of mine I decided to step in here. Now if you'd like to address this point of mine, "Gay people do not "recruit" children to become gay. Guns do kill children. How do you justify equating the two in your mind?" I'm all ears.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:34 PM

52. The fact that you call a response to gun violence in the US a "moral panic"

shows that you don't understand either word. And your OP is, as has been abundantly pointed out, a horrible analogy.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:48 PM

54. I stand by my use of the term. Noble goals have been derailed before.

The well-meant temperance movement became the catastrophe of Prohibition.

The well-meant desire to curb dangerous drug use became "Reefer Madness/D*A*R*E/
The War on Drugs.

The well-meant drive to protect children from abuse became a hunt for covens of Satanists.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #54)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:09 PM

59. Yeah. I'm just gonna call you out on this.

Your examples are, again, not germaine to the gun discussion.

Because alcohol is not a weapon. I cannot walk into a movie theater with a bottle of Jack Daniels and kill or injure 60 people with it in under five minutes.

Drugs are not weapons. Sure, people can kill themselves with drugs, and even kill others. But I cannot walk into a shopping mall with a crack pipe and take out multiple shoppers in a few seconds.

And before you or anyone else bring up cars, let me preempt that. A car is a mode of transportation. A gun is a weapon.

Finally, I take exception to your use of child abuse as an example. REALLY? In the not-too-distant past, child abuse (and domestic violence in general) was considered the family's own business, such that law enforcement, schools, and other agencies would not get involved. Is our current system perfect? No. But you would suggest that a call for laws curtailing domestic violence is a "moral panic?" Should no one have ever said, "hey this shit seems to be endemic, why don't we try to do something about it?"

Let me ask you a few serious questions. Do you believe in the rule of law at all, even if the law is sometimes imperfect and has to be amended?

Are you suggesting that government has absolutely no role in finding solutions to problems such as gun violence? Because other developed nations have strict gun laws, even while simultaneously (perhaps magically!) not prohibiting alcohol.

Finally, do you truly not comprehend why the Newtown shooting was simply the breaking point for a lot of people? Is it beyond your capacity to understand the horror of an armed man blowing 20 first-graders to bits? Really?

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:29 PM

65. Well Said. Thanks. (nt)

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:46 PM

71. Very well said. Thank you.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:57 PM

73. "I don't support the NRA BUT..." ...Umm. That's a tell, buddy.

Let me save you some time and tell you some of the others:

Spoons don't make people obese so guns don't kill people, your fork has killed more people than my gun, this is not the time to talk about gun control, if you can't use the right terminology you can't have an opinion, it's the mental health system not the guns, there is nothing that can be done to limit the power of the NRA, there are too many guns out there so nothing can be done, people are too insignificant to change the gun laws, what we need is more guns not fewer, teachers should all be armed, "but I'm a responsible gun owner and those of us who are responsible gun owners are having our rights violated", "I have the right to protect myself against my government" (that's one of my favorites for sheer asshollery)...

I gotta say, though, your argument - that if you are outraged about the massacre of children and express your outrage, you do not get to have an opinion with respect to gun control - is a new one.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:00 AM

13. Gun nuts apparently think a Dodge Charger is deadlier than a semi automatic rifle.

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Response to Initech (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:01 AM

15. I had one tell me today that swimming pools are also deadlier than guns.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:27 PM

49. My favorite is the rep who said ping pong tables and flat screens kill more people.

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Response to Initech (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:57 PM

75. Before I was banned from the gungeon

 

There was a reply in one of my threads there that equated pool noodles with guns, as far as their potential for killing.

Seriously.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:04 AM

17. Except in this case there are actual, you know, dead children

Save the children seems fairly straightforward and literal in this case.


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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:08 AM

18. Except in this particular discussion, dead children -20 of them, to be precise- are pretty relevant.

So nice try, but no.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:10 AM

20. I think substantially reducing the number of firearms in this country,

Especially semi-auto & other repeating arms with hi capacity mags, will actually help protect the children, along with the rest of us. Specifically by reducing the level and severity of gun violence.

(no silly analogy required)

Feel free to discuss this all you want.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:20 AM

23. We need an updated version of the Godwin's Law corollary.

The first person to compare gun control to Anita Bryant automatically loses.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:22 AM

25. It's a bullshit post

on many levels. Horrid conflation.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:12 AM

37. Yes it it. This OP deserves nothing but mockery.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:30 AM

27. Wow -- more gun apologist projection. Now featuring pre-emptory dismissal of massacres of kids

As ever, the gun violence apologists try to smother any discussion of... the actual results of gun violence.

Like rules set by a household abuser, "you are only allowed to discuss this my way...."

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Response to villager (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:34 AM

28. Also featuring

insults against gay people.

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Response to villager (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:44 PM

70. Well said.

Before this we were seeing the argument of "if you don't use the right esoteric terminology about my hobby, you are too dumb for me to discuss this with you."

I thought that was pretty idiotic, but this takes it even farther.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:47 PM

82. That always showed you how spurious their "arguments" always were...

"Hah! The clip on that gun unloads with a release on the right, not the left! Your concerns about those dead kids are therefore completely invalid!"

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:34 AM

29. There is only one reply to this unserious crap

from unserious people worried about their "Man Cards"

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:35 AM

31. dupe

That is, if I'm allowed to say that in a gun thread!

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:00 AM

32. comparing bigoted lies about Gays and Kids to the truth about Kids being shot and killed ?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:36 AM

33. hit and run post. nt

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:39 AM

34. I am glad the true colors of posters are showing now

that Obama won again! I hope the admins are paying attention too!

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:09 AM

35. I'd Tell You To Be Ashamed Of Yourself.....

....but with 67% of your posts on the pro-gun side in the Gun Control/RKBA group, it's a safe bet you lost all your capacity for shame, long ago.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:11 AM

36. Clearly, you're the victim in all this.

So sad.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:22 AM

38. Hmm.

Where oh where has the Op gone...where oh where can he beeeeeeeeeeeeee?

Coward, just like all the gun nuts. Douple plus points for equating dead kids to gay people loving each other.

what will actually work? taking away guns. It's proven to work in every other developed nation. You just don't want to admit it.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:26 AM

39. How did defending the status quo become dissent?

Your side keeps winning, and actual dead children exist because of this. Stealing the struggle of an actually oppressed minority to keep your hobby on top as king of the hill is outrageous.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:14 PM

40. I fail to see how a homophobic movement that had nothing to do with children's safety,

And everything to do with pushing a bigoted agenda, is in anyway similar to an actual (read: REAL) public menace which leaves children dead and/or harmed. Gay people do not "recruit" children to become gay. Guns do kill children. How do you justify equating the two in your mind?

This is possibly the worst analogy I've ever seen posted on DU. If you have any respect for our GLBT community you should delete this offensive piece of inflammatory junk.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:07 PM

44. ^^^ this ^^^

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:19 PM

78. I agree.

But you have to have some shame to do that and I see some here don't know what that word means.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:10 PM

46. You don't belong here. Please leave.

If you really believe that you've found an equivalency between Anita Bryant and children who were executed at point blank range, you're hopelessly fucked in the head. I really mean that.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:27 PM

48. The vital goal of protecting children's safety has become a moral panic

The country needs dialogue about how to prevent incidents like Sandy Hook.

Instead (in addition to the wharrgarbl from the NRA), we get:

Intolerance for opposing views, claims of DUers being NRA operatives, the gimlet-eyed
certaintude that "*Ours* is the true and only way!", the notion that owners of
semi-automatic guns are just one too many cups of coffee away from becoming mass murderers.

Nevermind the fact that the murder rates via rifle, and the murder rates as a whole in the
US are only a fraction of what they were before the first "assault weapons ban" was
passed in 1994.

In other words, it's a moral panic, and they don't help. Instead, they hurt.

Consider some of the ones I'm old enough to remember:

"Reefer madness"/DARE: Use any drug whatsoever, and you'll die. So kids start smoking
weed, discover that not only did they not die, they in fact feel pretty good.

So any legit concerns about things like cocaine, heroin, and amphetamines get discounted
because they know they've been bullshitted by antidrug types.

"Ritual child abuse": People go out looking for eeebil Satanists, and innocent people
get railroaded- while real abuse, which is overwhelmingly perpetraded by single abusers,
gets neglected:

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/12/us/pastor-and-wife-are-acquitted-on-all-charges-in-sex-abuse-case.html


Pastor and Wife Are Acquitted on All Charges in Sex-Abuse Case
By Timothy Egan
Published: December 12, 1995

After less than a day of deliberation, a jury today acquitted a lay pastor and his wife of all charges of sexual abuse of children in a trial that critics say demonstrated the worst aspects of police misconduct in such cases.

The defendants, Robert and Connie Roberson, were accused of being at the center of a sex ring in which children were ritualistically raped and abused. The Robersons ran a food bank and led a Pentecostal church in the central Washington city of Wenatchee.

Prosecutors offered no physical evidence to support the charges. Instead, the main witness was the 13-year-old foster daughter of a police officer, Robert Perez, who investigated the Robersons.

For two years, Detective Perez led a campaign against what he said was a widespread sex ring in Wenatchee, a city of 22,000 people about 100 miles east of Seattle. Last spring, shortly after Mr. Roberson publicly criticized the detective for his zeal in making arrests on sensational accusations, the preacher was arrested and charged with 11 counts of sexual abuse of a child. Mr. Roberson's 5-year-old daughter was taken from him at that time, too, because the authorities said he had molested her as well.


They should have looked a little harder at Roberson-he might have been an NRA propagandist.

Agreed, I should have reworded the OP- but I'm too damn old to sit through yet another march
of folly, however well-intended.


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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:32 PM

67. I'd tell you to stop digging

since you are in a hole already, but you insist on begging for a shovel.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:19 PM

79. Rope.

Feed them all the rope they want, I say.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:40 PM

53. UPDATE: I shitcanned the Bryant/Falwell stuff, and I apologize for including it.

Many were offended by it, and I know now that including that in the OP just helped to make DU suck.

I do, however stand by my estimation that what should be a search for safety for children
and adults has degenerated into a moral panic- and those do more harm than good.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:11 PM

60. Still not seeing the "moral panic," buddy. nt

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:15 PM

61. How did you shit can it? It's still in your link and the basis of your post

If you really wanted to shit can it you would do the moral thing and self delete your OP.

As a gay member of DU I find your OP beyond distasteful.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #61)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:25 PM

63. As another gay member of DU

I also find it beyond distasteful. Talk about making DU suck, gee open bigotry would never make DU suck, now would it.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #63)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:30 PM

66. +1 OPs like this do make DU suck for many reasons n/t

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:28 PM

64. You have no defense.


Why did you post?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:31 PM

80. I'm offended by your entire pro any kind of gun attitude

and the logical failures of your extreme positions.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:53 PM

56. Dumb post of the week award!!!! Winnah, winnah, chicken dinnah!!!

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:06 PM

58. You have taken a bad situation and made it even worse.

I would suggest deleting the OP and starting from scratch.

And next time try not to marginalize a whole group of people when you do it especially when it comes to a group that has one of the highest rates of suicide for teenager's.

I could go on but I do feel like wasting any more time on this OP or the mindset behind it.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:22 PM

62. "Shut down dissent"...


Sorry, buddy. It isn't dissent, it's just noise.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #62)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:16 PM

77. The kind of response one might expect from circular self-referential justifications for gun fascism.

Yes?

- or -

No?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:36 PM

69. OP should be embarrassed

Attacking imaginary straw man: check
Half-witted reference from Wikipedia: check
Sloppy analogy from incomplete news clipping: check
Worse analogy from the Simpsons: check
Posturing as victimized "dissenter": check
Contributing nothing: yup.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:57 PM

74. Just stop.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:12 PM

76. If you can't handle dissent, it's you who is shutting down. Not all dissent is about you. At least

some of it comes from authentic efforts to address the issues honestly and if you can't tell the difference between which kind of dissent you're experiencing, perhaps you should recognize that there is a difference, first, before you require that we all shut up and, then, next I'd suggest that you try a few questions of the dissenters so that you can learn something that you might need to know.

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