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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:55 PM

The first two paragraphs of the new NETFLIX Terms of use....interesting start to a new year

Welcome to Netflix. We are an online subscription service, providing our members with access to motion pictures, television and other audio visual entertainment ("movies & TV shows") streaming over the Internet to certain Internet-connected TV's, computers and other devices ("Netflix ready devices"). We've put together here some detailed terms and conditions. You should read and understand them as they govern your use of our service.

These Terms of Use provide that all disputes between you and Netflix will be resolved by BINDING ARBITRATION. YOU AGREE TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO GO TO COURT to assert or defend your rights under this contract (except for matters that may be taken to small claims court). Your rights will be determined by a NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR and NOT a judge or jury and your claims cannot be brought as a class action. Please review the Arbitration Agreement below for the details regarding your agreement to arbitrate any disputes with Netflix.


https://signup.netflix.com/TermsOfUse?fdvd=true

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Reply The first two paragraphs of the new NETFLIX Terms of use....interesting start to a new year (Original post)
DainBramaged Dec 2012 OP
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #1
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #3
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #6
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #2
Confusious Dec 2012 #4
JimDandy Dec 2012 #27
Confusious Dec 2012 #30
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #34
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #35
jberryhill Dec 2012 #38
elleng Dec 2012 #5
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #7
elleng Dec 2012 #11
diabeticman Dec 2012 #8
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #25
jberryhill Dec 2012 #9
exboyfil Dec 2012 #12
jberryhill Dec 2012 #15
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #22
Occulus Dec 2012 #23
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #28
jberryhill Dec 2012 #29
smccarter Dec 2012 #10
elleng Dec 2012 #13
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #14
jackbenimble Dec 2012 #16
Occulus Dec 2012 #24
DearHeart Dec 2012 #17
frazzled Dec 2012 #19
DearHeart Dec 2012 #20
rrneck Dec 2012 #18
quinnox Dec 2012 #21
renate Dec 2012 #32
Trajan Dec 2012 #26
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #31
SouthernDonkey Dec 2012 #33
XemaSab Dec 2012 #36
jberryhill Dec 2012 #37
MrScorpio Dec 2012 #39

Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:57 PM

1. Don't the big cell phone carriers do this?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:02 PM

3. I don't know but this is big change

I am on Redbox beta, I am looking forward to getting away from these cretins.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:09 PM

6. I'm pretty sure I read

about a couple in CA who got caught by this little cutie with AT & T or Verizon. We need to start reading all of the fine print and refusing to sign away our rights.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:00 PM

2. These arbitration contracts should be limited.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:05 PM

4. YOU AGREE TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT

Fuck those guys.

There should be a law forbidding companies from being able to include that in their terms of service.

I certainly see a day when every company uses "If you buy this, you give up your right to go to court" "If you enter this place, you give up your right to go to court" clauses.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:29 AM

27. A constitutional amendment:

"The right of citizens to seek redress in court shall not be abridged"

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:49 AM

30. Yep, pass it yesterday. Nt

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:17 AM

34. +1

 

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Response to Confusious (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 04:32 AM

35. unalienable/inalienable rights

If we accept that SCOTUS is part of our government, and that cases they adjudicate are brought upwards from lower courts, CAN we actually "give away" constitutional rights"?


Definitions of inalienable:

adjective: incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another
adjective: not subject to forfeiture




Definitions of unalienable:

adjective: incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another

Example: "Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:24 AM

38. Question


So, wait a minute....

If I pay an actor to read a script, then haven't we just entered into a contract where that actor's freedom of speech is controlled by me?

How about if I pay someone 10 dollars not to speak for five minutes. Is that a legal contract, in your opinion?

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:08 PM

5. No surprise; very common.

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Response to elleng (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:10 PM

7. Cell phone carriers use it don't they?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:25 PM

11. Probably; haven't read my contract for a long time.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:12 PM

8. I think my wife and I are going to stop using netflix.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:38 AM

25. It's a common provision in these types of contracts. I'd be surprised if they're not in all of them.

All that new software you load on your pc, where you have to agree to terms of useage? Those terms probably include that provision.

Any damage claim you have will be decided by an arbitrator, not in a court. It will still have a determiner. But really, if you have a dispute with Netflix over something worth several hundred dollars, you're probably not gonna want to sue, anyway. Too expensive.

Arbitration is a more cost effective way of handling money disputes these days.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:13 PM

9. This is a service that costs anywhere from $5 and up per month


Their lowest cost streaming plan is $4.99 a month, and can be cancelled at any time.

I'm trying to imagine a situation which would give rise to a claim that I'd want to go to court over, and having a hard time imagining that.

What conceivable thing could they do, which would lead anyone to want to take them to court instead of just cancelling the service?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:27 PM

12. Violation of privacy?

by releasing your viewing history? Could they automatically start charging a lot more and not allow a refund if you complain?

As far as value it has a lot more than my cable (which I can't cancel because of my wife). It is interesting how they do things by baiting customers so that they will at least pay full price for one movie (such as through Amazon). For example both The Omen and Robocop do not include the 2nd movie but have the third movie (other examples as well). This may be more controlled by the studios than Netflix - it is pretty smart.

I have to say I love being able to get to classic television shows and watch them. Many are available at other places, but the link works well. They also do have many good movies (not great movies) available. So much that I will never be able to watch it all.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:38 PM

15. The damages amounting to what?


Aside from which, you already agreed they could share information about your viewing history....

https://signup.netflix.com/PrivacyPolicy

We may share your information within the Netflix family of companies. The Netflix family of companies that access your information will follow practices that are consistent with the practices described in this Privacy Policy. In addition we use other companies, agents or contractors to perform services on our behalf. For example, we have partnered with other companies, to provide infrastructure and IT services, personalize and optimize our web pages, process credit card transactions, provide customer service, collect debts, analyze and enhance data, including users' interaction with our website, and process consumer surveys. In the course of providing such services, these other companies may have access to your information. We do not authorize these companies to use or disclose your personal information except for the purpose of providing the services we request of them.

We may offer joint promotions or programs that, in order for participation, will require information be shared with third parties. For example, we may partner with companies that offer incentives, such as frequent flyer mileage awards, if you sign up or otherwise utilize our service. In fulfilling these types of promotions, we may share your name and other information in connection with fulfilling the incentive. By participating in such joint promotions or programs, you consent to our sharing of your information. Please note that we do not control the privacy practices of these third party businesses.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:35 AM

22. The alternative is spending more to pay NETFLIX legal bills

...when some group of attorneys issues a class action complaint that is inevitably settled out of court that nets members a few pennies while making millions in legal fees for said attorneys.

Binding arbitration agreements aren't always a bad thing for the consumer.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:35 AM

23. Continuing billing after cancellation is a solid example.

AOL did this to a lot of people in the 1990s.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:08 AM

28. "except for matters that may be taken to small claims court"

A small claims suit for $800 or $1000 would cover a long time of such continuing billing, even if one didn't notice it for the first several years.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:19 AM

29. The easy way to deal with that and "negative option" billing...

...is this:

You call your issuer and say "Hey, I lost my debit/credit card and need a replacement."

You are going to be overbilled by how much, in relation to going to court?

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:21 PM

10. Very simple...

You - the customer - have the power. Just don't accept. If that means you don't purchase their product, then don't purchase their product.

At my last mortgage closing, I was going through the large number of documents involved and came upon one asking that I sign away 2 of my constitutional rights. I refused to sign. I wrote all over that document my opinion of what they were doing, that I had no idea what the implication would be, and that I didn't have representation, so I absolutely refused to sign that document. I still got the mortgage. Guess my money is still worth something.

We have the power. If we refuse to take our wallets (or bill-folds) out of our pockets (or pocketbooks) and don't give the bastards our money, we win.

I just don't understand people - that impulse buying has gotten to this point. Just sign whatever they want us to sign, pay whatever they're asking, do whatever they ask us to do... just so that I can get what I want (not need) at the moment. Self-control is something that people in this country have very little of any more. What a shame.

I dumped Netflix when they went up to $12.00 a month. Even though they've reduced their rates since, I didn't go back. I tend not to do business with any company I don't trust. And I don't trust Netflix.

I realize the issue is much larger that this, but... If enough people refuse to sign the agreement and cancel their subscription, Netflix will take those statements out of the agreement. But hey... that would be a democratic way of handling an issue. That's another topic of discussion all-together.

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Response to smccarter (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:28 PM

13. Yes, we have power,

maybe more with mortgage type relations, cause actually dealing with people; not so much with huge corps like netflix, verizon, etc.

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Response to smccarter (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:29 PM

14. Well stated and completely true.

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Response to smccarter (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:43 PM

16. I have a netflix membership

And personally don't care about the clause. What would I sue them for? If they do something I don't like or if I dislike their service I can simply speak my mind with my pocketbook and cancel. The language is probably there to protect against people who make a sport out of suing.

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Response to smccarter (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:38 AM

24. And when EVERY company ends up doing this they have us all by the short ones.

No, sorry; a corporate "contract" with their customer that they give up their rights to go to court should be illegal.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:50 PM

17. I've actually seen this used for JOB applications!

Needless to say, I never applied to those companies! Wonder why this is popping up all of the sudden?

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Response to DearHeart (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 11:15 PM

19. I had it on a job contract 15 or more years ago

So I see the clause and I said to the HR person, "Oh, I never give away my right to go to court. I don't think I can sign this." And he said, "Okay, fine, cross it out." (Disclosure: the standard contract was a formality in this particular case and they really needed me; I'm not sure this works in every situation).

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Response to frazzled (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:24 AM

20. Wouldn't work for me, I'm just a cog in the machine.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:54 PM

18. I cancelled them a while back. I don't miss them. nt

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:33 AM

21. I switched to Blockbuster DVD service from Netflix

 

I think the CEO ruined Netflix with his philosophy of basically saying to hell with the DVD business and concentrating and trying to force everyone to streaming videos instead.

I have been satisfied with Blockbuster, and they have a huge collection of DVDs including obscure titles.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:52 AM

32. I have honestly never considered this before

I love Netflix streaming because I really like documentaries, but my husband prefers movies and so he's not such a big fan. He's always complaining that the good movies aren't available except with the mail option.

I just noticed that you didn't mention Blockbuster's streaming options (e.g. whether it even has one ) but I'm going over to their website right now to look. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 12:45 AM

26. While this seem pretty onerous ... It still depends on the situation ...

Some issues cannot be waived by such a contract .... If a Netflix employee came to your house and destroyed property or caused harm, for instance, they can still be brought before a court, which would determine then whether the clauses have effect, on a case by case basis.

These contracts are not the last word ....

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:51 AM

31. So if Netflix accidentally streams hot coffee through my TV and it burns me,

I won't be able to sue them for millions? That sucks.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:13 AM

33. Id never give Blockbuster

another red cent! They cornered the market for so long and charged such exorbitant rental, late, and re-wind fees I hope they starve plumb fuckin' to death! I hope they go bankrupt!

As for Netflix, I normally protest these clauses loudly as a matter of principle. It chaps my ass to see them, but as some have mentioned earlier, this one doesn't bother me that much. We pay$18 month and get both streaming and unlimited DVD and we find it to be a much better value than our actual Comcast Cable bill. (i've paid Blockbuster that much on one weekends rentals many many times!) But that's just us. For $18 dollars a month, there is really nothing that I can foresee that NETFLIX might possibly do to me that I am really concerned about. Getting redress through the courts where an attorney will get rich and I will still probably only get a voucher for a free movie is just not that much of a principle issue to me. Attorney fee's trump the "give up your rights" principle on this one with me.

If it screws an attorney out of a ludicrous 60% fee I say more power to em! Bring on the arbiter!

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 06:30 AM

36. Why would someone sue Netflix?

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 10:58 AM

37. Because they were traumatized by watching B movies

Holy heck... Do NOT watch "The Glory Stompers". I suffered a week-long facepalm.

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Response to DainBramaged (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:31 AM

39. It's part of the USCoC campaign to destroy the right of addressing grievances in court

This binding arbitration contracts are showing up all over the place, in ways that most ordinary people would never expect it.

If you ever get a chance, watch the Documentary, "Hot Coffee".



Rent it on Netflix, that should be a wake up call

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