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Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:10 PM

Whatever happened to anger and rage?

The kind of range that tempted people to shoot up wall street or Bank of America? Are those so appropriately channeled that they are considered to be "sane." Yet, a person who channels similar rage in a more disturbing direction is mentally ill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_killing

In retrospect, would anyone seriously argue that Charles Starkweather or Bonnie and Clyde were mentally ill? Imagine the carnage if they had had the kinds of weapons available today.

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Whatever happened to anger and rage? (Original post)
loyalsister Dec 2012 OP
Indydem Dec 2012 #1
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #2
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #3
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #8
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #9
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #11
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #13
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #15
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #17
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #19
loyalsister Dec 2012 #4
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #5
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #6
loyalsister Dec 2012 #10
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #16
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #21
loyalsister Dec 2012 #22
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #23
nolabear Dec 2012 #7
loyalsister Dec 2012 #20
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #12
OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #14
Indydem Dec 2012 #18

Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:15 PM

1. Um. Bonnie and Clyde had a Thompson Submachinegun

Far more lethal than any "Assault rifle" available today.

Perhaps history is not your strong suit.

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:24 PM

2. Anyone who shoots a gun with the intent of killing or doing harm is mentally ill on some level...

 

No one who does what Starkweather or Bonnie and Clyde or Adam Lanza did is sane.

Doesn't mean that the mentally ill are by and large a 'dangerous' group of people, any more than knitters are.

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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:28 PM

3. By that logic we've got a lot of mentally ill VETERANS...would that include

the navigators and radar operators that helped put bombs on target?

on edit: and it means we've got a number of police/security forces running around the country that are "at some level" mentally ill.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:34 PM

8. Seriously?

 

Do I even need to respond?

Is it not obvious what I mean?

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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:36 PM

9. You are the one that posted the stupid overgeneralized assertion

I guess you aren't the insight filled genius that certainty suggested
.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:44 PM

11. So apparently you DID understand what I meant...

 

but just needed an outrage fix.

Hope you feel better !!!!! Yay You !!!!!


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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:48 PM

13. You said what you said,

You could edit that damned post and make it say something that reflects something that really reflects the kind of understanding and empathy you believe you possess.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:56 PM

15. Or, you could read what is there without the 'Outrage Glasses'...

 

But, why do that right?

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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:59 PM

17. Your self defensiveness is showing

learn the lesson to think before hitting "post" and move on.

fin

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:09 PM

19. Oh, don't leave...

 

You were SO much fun...AND you have more to learn about irony !!!!

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Response to OneMoreDemocrat (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:29 PM

4. Even military soldiers?

who are mentally stable but trained to throw out some of their important values in certain situations?

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:32 PM

5. The odd thing is a few years ago "Intermittent Explosive Disorder" was roundly booed by DUers

when a paper was posted about it. I think 2005 or 2006 can't be sure...

lots of people not happy that their road rage was potentially symptomatic.

Now in fear, anger looks to everyone like mental illness.

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:33 PM

6. Tommy guns were more powerful than these bushmaster semis.

 

.45 caliber, fully automatic.

There was a reason for what Bonnie and Clyde did. Same with Dillinger, Nelson and so on.

This Lanza asshole profitted nothing from what he did, he just killed to kill. Big difference.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:40 PM

10. "This Lanza asshole profitted nothing from what he did, he just killed to kill"

How do you know this? And what exactly were Fugate and Starkweather's, Bonnie and Clye's profits?

If a person with a house in foreclosure shot the banker who approved their loan would you consider them mentally ill? What would be their profit?

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:57 PM

16. Many of these mass-murders are also suicide-multiple homicides

They do beg the question if these are suicides with the homicide as a horrible last message.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:39 PM

21. Robbing the bank for the money is profitting.

 

It's a dirty, sometime murderous business but there is a legitimate goal. You gain nothing from shooting bunch of kids and then blowing your brains out. Best to just kill yourself first. What point is there in doing anything unless you get something out of it? That's the difference between being amoral and being legitimately insane.

Shooting the loan officer doesn't make the loan go away, it might mean you're crazy but it certainly means you're stupid. Robbing a bank does temporarily alleviate the problem of impecuniousness. There's a difference.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 06:19 PM

22. "You gain nothing from shooting bunch of kids and then blowing your brains out"

And you know this how? Did Bonnie and Clyde always kill only enough people to make their profit and get away? What about Starkweather?

Is it possible that there was some sense of relief or personal satisfaction that makes as no sense to me or most of us?

Or is it possible that likemany things, killing is misunderstood but not representative of the mental illness that people are struggling with along with their endlessly stigmatized existence?

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 07:18 PM

23. I don't know, I'm not that kind of crazy.

 

It seems to me that there is no gain in killing a bunch of people, even if that's what you like, and then killing yourself. But maybe there is, who knows?

I just see a huge difference between 1930's gangster bank robbers and psychotic mass murderers.

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:34 PM

7. Yes. I would argue that they were mentally ill. Define mental health for me first.

What makes a human being mentally healthy?

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Response to nolabear (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:31 PM

20. Loosely defined does not include and absence of negative emotions

First off to be "mentally healthy" does not exclude the absence of negative experiences, emotions, or responses. An ability to successfully cope with every single good, bad, even neutral thing that comes our way is not required for mental health.

To be generally "emotionally well adaptive" and able to successfully interact with peers most of the time would signify a high degree of mental health. But, there may be situations that cause distress that affects the same person's behavior.
A person is grieving because they have lost a loved one may, for example cry a lot. Indeed, a woman going through menopause do so as well. It is very often not fun to be around people who are going through a divorce or break up. People who are perpetually angry over financial problems are viewed as justified. Sometimes people having a bad day get an armchair diagnosis from coworkers who do not like them.
The point is there are times when we fail to adapt to environments and events well and are not the perfect picture of mental health. The day or some days later or time later we see\are back to the picture of contrast between ourselves and our grumpy neighbor.

Those maladaptive behaviors do not rise to the level of mental illness. We all know, or and are these people. There are people who do not meet the criteria of mental illnesses but do react to their environments some events with responses that are extreme. They are sometimes people we have known and "broken up with" for one reason or in one way or another.

The behavior of someone who is considered mentally healthy, but angrily trashes house that the bank foreclosed on is not necessarily mentally ill, but most definitely is adapting to those circumstances in an extremely very maladaptive way.

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:44 PM

12. Charles Starkweather mentally ill? Perish the thought

Dude was the picture of mental health.

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Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:51 PM

14. LOL, what? They access to shit thats uber hard to get today.

 

Try buying a Thompson or BAR nowadays. Back in the 30's, real machine guns could literally be mail-ordered. A thompson has a drum magazine of .45 caliber on tap - full auto. A BAR is so much more firepower than an AR15 it's rediculous. Full auto .30-06 versus semi .223? HA!

The real statement should be, imagine if the shooters nowadays had access to Bonnie & Clyde's arsenal.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:08 PM

18. +1000

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