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Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:13 PM

Overheard Yesterday... "Gee, It's Too Bad Nobody At Fort Hood Had Any Weapons To Stop The

Shooter."

Just sayin.




43 replies, 2304 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Overheard Yesterday... "Gee, It's Too Bad Nobody At Fort Hood Had Any Weapons To Stop The (Original post)
WillyT Dec 2012 OP
MarianJack Dec 2012 #1
WillyT Dec 2012 #9
-..__... Dec 2012 #24
WillyT Dec 2012 #25
-..__... Dec 2012 #27
WillyT Dec 2012 #28
leveymg Dec 2012 #33
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #2
intaglio Dec 2012 #7
Recursion Dec 2012 #11
intaglio Dec 2012 #40
Recursion Dec 2012 #42
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #13
intaglio Dec 2012 #37
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #39
Glassunion Dec 2012 #41
moondust Dec 2012 #35
intaglio Dec 2012 #38
WillyT Dec 2012 #20
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #3
Recursion Dec 2012 #4
intaglio Dec 2012 #8
Recursion Dec 2012 #10
The Straight Story Dec 2012 #5
renie408 Dec 2012 #12
Crabby Appleton Dec 2012 #16
renie408 Dec 2012 #17
Crabby Appleton Dec 2012 #18
X_Digger Dec 2012 #22
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #34
The Straight Story Dec 2012 #30
Turbineguy Dec 2012 #6
WillyT Dec 2012 #15
Crabby Appleton Dec 2012 #14
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #19
WillyT Dec 2012 #23
former9thward Dec 2012 #31
Wounded Bear Dec 2012 #21
WillyT Dec 2012 #26
former9thward Dec 2012 #29
Daninmo Dec 2012 #32
Robb Dec 2012 #36
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #43

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:17 PM

1. You've ot to hand it to the NRA apologists...

...to always come up with the stupid sayings.

PEACE!

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Response to MarianJack (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

9. To Be Fair... It Was A Liberal Who Said This... On The Irony And Absurdity Of The NRA Position...

on "securing" our children's schools.




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Response to WillyT (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:15 PM

24. That's what happens when humor based on ignorance backfires on the person.

 

And the paeron withdraws when shown the foolishness of their statement...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022048243

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Response to -..__... (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:21 PM

25. Didn't Backfire In This Case... Most People At This Meet-Up Nodded In Agreement...

Because most people don't KNOW how restrictive the rules ARE on military bases...

So the point was accepted.

But even then... you could marvel at the fact that the most highly trained Army on the planet has better GUN CONTROL than the nation it defends.

Again... IRONIC.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:55 PM

27. It's the trying to be clever/snarky/sarcastic/failed attempt at humor that made it backfire.

 

<mocking tone>"Gee, It's Too Bad Nobody At Fort Hood Had Any Weapons To Stop The Shooter"</mocking tone> combined with the lack of knowledge that makes it backfire and not just the lack of knowledge itself.


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Response to -..__... (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:06 PM

28. Yeah... And Your "Facts" Do Nothing But Muddle The Issue... Do YOU Really Want Armed Guards At

every public/private school in this country?

Because that's no country I would recognize as my own.



BTW... Your Hello Kitty has an assault weapon... nice message...


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Response to -..__... (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:42 PM

33. It still works, even under the ROEs - there were plenty of armed and loaded MPs on that base.

It's not an inaccurate remark, and it hit it's target dead center,

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:29 PM

2. They didn't

Rank and file troops do not have weapons and ammunition on most domestic bases unless they are training on a range.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:34 PM

7. Nice case of weasel words

Rank and file troops

Ever been to a base and gone through the gate? You know, passed the armed guards

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Response to intaglio (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:36 PM

11. Yes, the guards at the gate who are very far from where the shooting was

That's the point. Once you're on base, if you're not on a firing range you'll almost never see a weapon.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:41 AM

40. PP admits that there are MPs

So why do you forget that fact?

Many school campuses are large enough for uninterrupted shootings to occur - you know like Columbine

"Weasel words" is a bad term because it insults weasels but it is better than possible alternatives such as "lying by omission"

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Response to intaglio (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 09:34 AM

42. Somewhere on base there are MP's, yes, just like somewhere in any town there are cops

There are about as many guns nearby at a Jack in the Box on base as there are at a Jack in the Box off base

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Response to intaglio (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:40 PM

13. Nice case of you dodging the facts

MPs and some gate guards are armed, the rank and file troops are not.

I have lived on Army bases.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:27 AM

37. So you admit MPs and guards are armed

So there were "good guys" on the base and those "good guys" were armed. Yet, somehow the shooter could continue for some time without being stopped.

As I said - weasel words from a man who professes only an unconditional love of guns.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:38 AM

39. More lies from you

As others have pointed out he was stopped by armed police. Like all police they were not there in real time, but did what was needed when they got there.

Nice try to bring in the NRA terms, noted that you are using them, not me. Why are you pushing their talking points? Do you also support their asinine suggestion of armed guards in all schools?

I profess many things. However, among them is not an unconditional love for guns. I am a big fan of people who need it having the most effective tools for self defense. The Pink Pistols and others are quite correct in that regards. I have posted some changes that I think are called for.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:41 AM

41. Minor quibble

The MPs at Fort Hood were not armed. Only the DOD civilian police were armed.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:13 AM

35. I'm familiar with the area of the shooting.

No gate nearby. Ft. Hood is huge.

Fort Hood is one of the largest United States military installations in the world, and is the home of III Corps, 1st Cavalry Division, 13th Sustainment Command, First Army Division West, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, 41st Fires Brigade and many other corps and echelons above corps units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood

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Response to moondust (Reply #35)


Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:08 PM

20. Alright... Though I Think You Missed The Forest For The Trees... Let's Talk Afghanistan...

A warzone... most weapons/firearms probably loaded and carried...

And yet...

From 1/20/12:


American soldiers training Afghan police officers in 2010. A report cites growing friction between the ostensible allies. - Photo: Damon Winter/The New York Times

But the most troubling fallout has been the mounting number of Westerners killed by their Afghan allies, events that have been routinely dismissed by American and NATO officials as isolated episodes that are the work of disturbed individual soldiers or Taliban infiltrators, and not indicative of a larger pattern. The unusually blunt report, which was prepared for a subordinate American command in eastern Afghanistan, takes a decidedly different view. The Wall Street Journal reported on details of the investigation last year. A copy was obtained by The New York Times.

“Lethal altercations are clearly not rare or isolated; they reflect a rapidly growing systemic homicide threat (a magnitude of which may be unprecedented between ‘allies’ in modern military history),” it said. Official NATO pronouncements to the contrary “seem disingenuous, if not profoundly intellectually dishonest,” said the report, and it played down the role of Taliban infiltrators in the killings.

The coalition refused to comment on the classified report. But “incidents in the recent past where Afghan soldiers have wounded or killed I.S.A.F. members are isolated cases and are not occurring on a routine basis,” said Lt. Col. Jimmie E. Cummings Jr. of the Army, a spokesman for the American-led International Security Assistance Force. “We train and are partnered with Afghan personnel every day and we are not seeing any issues or concerns with our relationships.”

The numbers appear to tell a different story. Although NATO does not release a complete tally of its forces’ deaths at the hands of Afghan soldiers and the police, the classified report and coalition news releases indicate that Afghan forces have attacked American and allied service members nearly three dozen times since 2007.

Two members of the French Foreign Legion and one American soldier were killed in separate episodes in the past month, according to statements by NATO. The classified report found that between May 2007 and May 2011, when it was completed, at least 58 Western service members were killed in 26 separate attacks by Afghan soldiers and the police nationwide. Most of those attacks have occurred since October 2009. This toll represented 6 percent of all hostile coalition deaths during that period, the report said.


More: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/world/asia/afghan-soldiers-step-up-killings-of-allied-forces.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:30 PM

3. Which is true

The MPs did...but not the rest.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:31 PM

4. They didn't. You can't walk around armed on a base

I can count on my hands the number of times I carried a weapon while mainside on a military base.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

8. Were any of those times when you were on guard duty? n/t

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Response to intaglio (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

10. Even interior guard I was almost never armed

I'm pretty sure that was it, though.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:31 PM

5. My son was there when that happened

We discussed it a few nights ago.

They don't trot around the base carrying guns.

When I was a deputy we didn't keep guns on us in the jail, they were in lockers in a secure area (and only there in case of a riot/etc).

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:38 PM

12. Why is that? Why don't you keep a weapon on you?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:54 PM

16. Stateside the weapons are locked up in in an arms room most of the time

Ft. Hood is not in a combat zone, carrying weapons is highly restricted on base where there's no armed hostilities occurring.

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Response to Crabby Appleton (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:58 PM

17. Why are they locked up?

Guns keep people safer. All the gun carriers keep telling me that. If guns are safe and keep people safer, then you would think the Army would want their soldiers to have their guns on them at all times.

I see people in my GROCERY STORE carrying weapons. I cannot remember the last time there were armed hostilities at the Aldi's. If it is a necessary thing for ME to have to shop with someone armed in the store who is most likely not as trained as a soldier, why doesn't the army allow guns on base?

Because if you haven't noticed, shootings on bases is not exactly rare.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:05 PM

18. There are US Army soldiers at your Aldi's carrying weapons?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:11 PM

22. Why? Because they were turning up at gun shows.

Remember the Base Closure Committee/Commission in.. '93, I believe it was?

One of the recommendations from the commission was to stop 'loss' by locking up all the guns and ammo. Not because it's safer, but because whole cases of ammo were showing up at local gun shows- sometimes still with the DOI invoices inside.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 09:35 PM

34. Because the military knows from long experience

that walking around armed results in people's getting shot for no good reason. Only gun fetishists think it is normal and proper to always be armed in public.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:15 PM

30. Why don't *I*

Or were you asking why don't they or why don't deputies in a jail?

I don't because I don't own one.

People on base don't because there is no real reason to - but they still have access to them.

Deputies didn't because we were generally outnumbered 20 to 1 so we focused on hand to hand.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:32 PM

6. Dr. Strangelove:

https://

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:45 PM

15. Full Metal Jacket (Warning: Foul And Sexist Language)

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:44 PM

14. The first armed persons to arrive at the scene were civilian police

Department of the Army Civilian Police (DACP) who engaged the shooter and stopped the attack.

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Response to Crabby Appleton (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:06 PM

19. And THEY could not prevent the massacre.

Which is the point.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:11 PM

23. THANK YOU !!!

As with Columbine, as with Virginia Tech...




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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:17 PM

31. They did prevent from going further.

They stopped his killing spree. I guess we should not bother calling the police if someone becomes violent because they "could not prevent" that.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:10 PM

21. An American military base.....

has some of the most restrictive gun control laws anywhere in the world.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:36 PM

26. Ironic... No ???

The most professional, well trained military force on the planet, has better GUN CONTROL than the nation it defends.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:14 PM

29. No its not.

It is pathetic that people defend this practice. Senior army commanders have personal security detail but they deny the ability to defend oneself to the rank and file.

From Ft. Hood:

Lt. General Cone stated: "As a matter of practice, we do not carry weapons on Fort Hood. This is our home. Military weapons are only used for training or by base security, and personal weapons must be kept locked away by the provost marshal. Specialist Jerry Richard, a soldier working at the Readiness Center, expressed the opinion that this policy had left them unnecessarily vulnerable to violent assaults: "Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can't even defend yourself."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

The shooter was stopped in his killing spree by two security personnel who shot him five times.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:24 PM

32. when

volunteers in the US Military give up some of their rights when they sign the dotted line and take the oath.

I've heard some people claim (in jest) prison must be the safest place on earth, after all, all dangerous weapons are against the rules and no guns are allowed, except to certain LEO's only at certain times.

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Response to Daninmo (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:27 AM

36. Homicide rates in prison are below the national average.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 09:37 AM

43. Shooter opened fire in area where he knew soldiers not allowed to have loaded weapons.

Shooters are cowards, first and foremost. You don't find them going into police departments or shooting ranges, to shoot 'em up. That's because those people are armed. Shooters are into finding the path of least resistance, like most criminals.

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